The other side of "Girls only date jerks"

[Kellogs Fried Chickn]

Bad phrasing conveniently simplified to the masses which is essentially true. Difference is in what genders see as valuable. Generalizations: Men think gossip is illogical, women think not asking for help and doing something by oneself is illogical.

Edit: ... I totally butchered the post.

Men are wrong then. There is nothing inherently illogical with talking about how "OMG I can't believe so-and-so got pregnant!" I personally find it incredibly uninteresting and kind of mean, since I ultimately don't care what other people do with their lives and I don't think it's up to others to judge them, but that doesn't make it illogical. Different people enjoy different things.

Refusing to ask for help when you could only benefit by doing so is certainly illogical.

Having said that, those are fucking idiotic stereotypes. To begin with, every male I know loves gossipping while I can barely stand it. I've known plenty of women who for one reason or another didn't like asking for help. Do you even talk to people? It sounds like you got your knowledge of how people act from watching crappy sitcoms.

This post is also good, not good enough to print out though.
In no way related to topic, hostile and personal: use a PM next time. Will respond in a few days.

 

[manic_depressive13]

This post is also good, not good enough to print out though.
In no way related to topic, hostile and personal: use a PM next time. Will respond in a few days.

You must be new to this forum. We don't usually print out people's responses. My post was in every way related to the topic, and was a direct response to the nonsense you spouted, which I would have ignored if you hadn't quoted me. Why would I PM you. Read the rules. Don't do drugs. Stay in school.

 

[xochiquetzal]

I'd like to make the argument that women especially girls don't want a bad boy or a nice guy.
but a good man. sadly it takes some bad relationships to realize that.

 

[Phasmal]

I'd like to make the argument that women especially girls don't want a bad boy or a nice guy.
but a good man. sadly it takes some bad relationships to realize that.

I think the only people who really think women only date jerks are the people who don't have/cannot get dates.
Unless every woman on here has to go tell their boyfriend he is a jerk?

But what do you mean by `Women especially girls`? =S

 

[Something Amyss]

I think the only people who really think women only date jerks are the people who don't have/cannot get dates.

I think the technical term is "sour grapes."

 

[fuzz]

Lot's of women go for assholes. It's an observable fact. No one is saying ALL women go for assholes. But don't deny that plenty of women do. Two of my female friends are in relationships with assholes. One calls her fat and puts her down (she's really skinny), she complains all the time about him, yet she won't leave him. The other's boyfriend spends all his money on warhammer figures so she has to pay the bills/buy food etc. And she's still with him. I don't even think it's the confidence they go for, although that's a factor. It must be something else. Maybe they're just great in bed haha.

 

[Tycon]

Interesting results for your experiment, However I can't help but state that the difference between your control and variable procedures involve to many changes in variables and not enough over all data to definitively conclude your current results. Perhaps you should log/record your data and procedure more accurately as to make the exact experiment able to be reproduced by another person and change each variable in your behavior/look one at a time, trying to recreate each situation with different women as closely as the previous encounter. Perhaps then you will be able to conclude if being a "jerk" is the "X" factor in attracting a female mate or if individual bi products of being a "jerk" such as grooming and boisterous activity are the main contributors to your results as stated by several of the helpful comments on this post. I wish you the best of luck in your experimentation and perhaps you can find what you may be ultimately looking for, I'm assuming a balance of find a mate and keeping a sense of self and moral values.

If you get enough data a table, chart or graph of the results would be a nice presentable way for us to see.

*Edit* Typos

 

[Something Amyss]

-Doctor Phil snip-
Being in an adult relationship requires sacrifices. Total honesty is one of those.

One day, you'll find out how wrong you are.

 

[Something Amyss]

Okay, two more things:

When your wife asks you "Are these stretch-marks noticeable" 3 months after having a child. The appropriate response isn't an honest one.

My girlfriend disagrees.

If your partner makes a mistake and they seek comfort in you, the appropriate response isn't to tell them how badly they've screwed up.

You know, those aren't the only two choices. You can acknowledge a fuck up without rubbing it in, and console someone even if they're in the wrong. Again, this black and white nonsense you're trying to spread is fantasy.

 

[LittleThestral]

Out of curiosity, who the hell asks a question like "Does my ass look big?" or "Are these stretch marks noticeable?" unless they want to know the truth? Why the fuck would anyone be that passive-agressive? Is this some kind of messed up social thing that I'm just not getting?

FWIW, my girlfriend's repeatedly consoled me for crap that's my own fault without making herself a liar. For instance, I fucked up my toilet and procrastinated calling the plumber, so now I'm facing potentially huge plumbing and flooring repair bills. Her response? "I'm sorry, baby. *patpatpat*" I even complained about how upset I was with myself for letting it get that bad, and she was just like "Yeah, that sucks, but it's gonna be okay. Calm down, get cleaned up, get the plumber in there, and *patpatpat*."

I would hate to be in love with someone whose word I couldn't trust. I have enough paranoia as it is without doubting every word my lover says.

 

[Something Amyss]

Anecdotal evidence.

You might want to retcon your posts now. While you're at it, could you delete all the specious reasoning and meaningless platitudes?

People I've dated disagree with your girlfriend. Also, so does Patrick Stewart... I think we know who just won this round.

Me, since Patrick Stewart is awful.

If you're consoling them you're not fully acknowledging what they've done (assuming it's something bad.) You don't tell someone they're an utter fuck up and then let them cry on your shoulder. Poor fucker would probably get whiplash from that kind of emotional tennis.

Bullshit.

I never said it had to be black and white. Full throttle or slammed breaks, just that lying is important in any relationship. Regardless of the degree.

Except you keep presenting false dichotomies like the one I was referencing.

 

[Something Amyss]

Out of curiosity, who the hell asks a question like "Does my ass look big?" or "Are these stretch marks noticeable?" unless they want to know the truth?

Women on TV shows. And since we know that TV is an accurate reflection of the world in which we live....

 

[Something Amyss]

People who are feeling insecure about how they look and want to be reassured.

You know, if they offered an honest approach, there would be no need to lie. I love my girlfriend, but there are things I will not say. Lying is not really one of those things I'm cool with.

Unless she said "Wow you useless twonk, call a plumber next time." there was probably a few shades of omission in that consolation.

Maybe she doesn't find Thestral useless, regardless of the situation? Like, just guessing here, but your hypothetical scenario in which LT's girlfriend is omiting things assumes that she is a complete dick.

When you ask someone "how's it going" and their reply is "alright" or some other phatic reply, they're lying to you.

And here we get to what I think is the root of your problem with this concept.

Regardless of the whether or not they're feeling alright, they're not giving you an honest response, they're giving you an expected response. We generally don't trust people who can't master phatic dialogue because it betrays an inability to resonate with the social construct. Even though this long winded explanation will never have dawned upon you in day to day life, if you asked someone "how's it going" and their reply is a step by step recounting of the mornings events, you feel uncomfortable.

There's a lot of possible responses to "how is it going?" The question is not automatically a phatic expression and people are not automatically lying. This sort of thing relies on social context, something you seem to have trouble with. Someone can honestly ask the question, and "alright" is a valid response.

Yet here you are, broad brushing any such discourse as a lie.

You seem yourself to have failed to master a sort of crucial social element, and it seems to be due to black and white thinking. For example, you pulled out the binary option of saying "alright" or giving an extensive breakdown of one's day. "How's it going?" is not a question that needs you to say "I woke up this morning, took a dump, had eggs, and watched the lady across the street do aerobics." It's a question that, even in honest consideration, is an assessment of your current state of being. "alright" or "fine" or "okay" might not be the most descriptive, but nor are they dishonest.

Neither is it dishonest to not include "left foot step, right foot step, inhale, exhale" in your response to "what are you up to?" You're not lying just because you don't give the exact details of your respiratory system and status of bipedal movement.

Lying by omission is not the same as simply not including every piece of minutia.

Lying is far more important than you know.

Or your definition of what constitutes a like is just wrong.

Sorry, did I bring up some third party's opinion expecting it to carry weight? Nah, didn't think so.

Your argument is largely anecdotal, which is what you took issue with.

Well that's another mark against you for the winning of rounds.

I'm sorry you are into terrible things, but it has no bearing here anyway.

Smells more like Buffalo to me.

Trust me, I know these things.

I believe that.

Because that's how honesty works, you either lie or you don't. It's the degree of the lie that makes it a grey area.

Except your measure of whether something is a lie or not isn't really based in fact. Not only that, but you construe rather ridiculous situations. I just quoted one. In response to Little Thestral, you told him his girlfriend was probably lying unless her consolation included the phrase "you useless twonk." That's wholly unnecessary and the absence of it or something similar does not make his gf's response a lie. Maybe YOU think LT is a "useless twonk," but it doesn't mean that SHE does.

This is not how lying works, even as a social construct or part of the social contract. I'm sorry, but you're shifting the goalposts to try and define a broad swatch of non-lies into lies. The better to back up an incorrect point, it seems.

 

[LittleThestral]

You don't half labour these replies.

Unless she said "Wow you useless twonk, call a plumber next time." there was probably a few shades of omission in that consolation.

Maybe she doesn't find Thestral useless, regardless of the situation? Like, just guessing here, but your hypothetical scenario in which LT's girlfriend is omiting things assumes that she is a complete dick.

I'm not saying she'd have to use my exact phrasing. But if she's not telling him what she really thinks with relevance to the situation (which let's be honest, in a situation like this is likely.) then she's omitting.

Also saying 'everything is going to be okay' is a golden example of the kind of lie I'm talking about. She has no idea that everything is going to be okay. She's telling LT that because he needed to hear it.

So my girlfriend is lying because she didn't tell me every thought on her mind at the moment that I was stressing aloud about my toilet? She's lying because she doesn't baldly state "I TOLD you to call them earlier to get it fixed"? She did tell me that later on, when I had calmed down, so now I'm curious about something. Do you feel that holding a thought until a more appropriate time is lying? Because I often have anxious thoughts post, er, intimate relations, but I keep them quiet until after we've both settled down a bit. Is that lying?

And "Everything is going to be okay" is NOT a lie in this case. She doesn't KNOW for certain, she's not psychic, but my girlfriend does know that I'm budgeting for the costs as best I can, that I've been cleaning and checking out the issues and preventing the problems from getting worse, and that while I stress like a mofo things tend to turn out fine, if a little expensive. She knows all this because I tell her and because I'm honest about my reactions to things. She also tends to have pretty good pattern recognition. So no, that wasn't a lie. It IS a typically trite statement that many people apparently say to make others feel better, but in this instance, it was an honest statement.

I just don't see how our relationship is built on lies. For another example, I'm not physically attractive. I daresay I'm quite unattractive. I know it, she knows it, and we both acknowledge it. I acknowledge it more often than she does (low self-esteem = constantly wondering why she wants to be with me + honesty about my looks) but we BOTH acknowledge it. She doesn't try to soothe my ego with shit like "You're the hottest guy I've ever banged" or anything else like that, she's admitted that she's quite aware I'm not hot, and you know what? I fucking APPRECIATE it. I wouldn't be able to trust her if she tried to act like I'm hotter than I know I am. Sometimes it's a hard pill to swallow, but hey, who the hell WANTS to think they're unattractive?