The Ouya Scam

[gavinmcinns]

snip

Do you even know how expensive hardware is?

very. On a level were 30 million is basic requirement. basic console. 20 million is jusst sshort of the 30 for an incredibly archiac console.

Manufacturing. shipping. design. testing. etc. All this shit costs loads of money that even AAA game publishers will find a hard time paying.

There is a reason microsoft dropped a billion on the xbox. There is a reason consoles are sold at a loss. Tegra 3 would have been suitable if it wasn't delayed, but even then beyond phone hardware you can't do anything else.

The ouya isn't a scam, its just people trying to get in a locked down market.

Then please tell me how the OUYA team managed to trick themselves into thinking they'd be able to do it with 1mm (their original goal)? A bunch of insiders got together after seeing the kickstarter thing explode and went "How do I get a slice of this crowdpie?"

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

OUYA raised 8.5mm usd, then they went out and found another 12mm usd from v. capitalists (that includes nvidia).. they are not short on capital. I just want to know why the media (including escapist) were so shortsighted in this.. ill-advised creation.... it is beyond obvious that this thing was going to crash and burn... it was using the tegra 3 chipset which phones from 2011 touted as ageing tech... its like mainstream gaming media saw this shit pie hurtling toward their face with a TMT and proclaimed " FREE BJ'S." Notg=hing about this sits right with me.

It is incredibly bold to claim that you know precisely what it has cost to research, develop, manufacture, and distribute this device to many thousands - which is what you're doing when you assert that 20.5 million USD was sufficient for the task. Do you, for example, know what the acquisition cost of the various bits of silicon are? How much it costs to assemble? What it cost for development of the OS (yes it's android based but they didn't just slap a default version in there)? How much you pay to run the distribution center? How much it costs to drum up support and evangelize the platform to developers.

20.5 million USD isn't a great deal of money for a job like this. It is an insignificant fraction of the cost of development and distribution of any of the other consoles currently on the market.

As far as why the media was "short-sighted", the answer is fairly easy: they weren't. The common trend of report I observed was that the Ouya was an interesting experiment. I personally never saw any editorial actually predicting success. After the release of the device, it received reviews that generally went in the form of "Well, the games suck, the controller sucks, the OS sucks but I guess it's not bad as a potential Roku replacement".

But all that misses the greater point that the hardware fundamentally has little to do with how well this product will be received. The software is what counts. Just because something has garbage hardware does not mean it is impossible to imagine that someone will make an game worth playing on the device. Look no further than Nintendo's strategy for the last three consoles for proof - each time they produced the slowest machine and yet each time they managed to move the inferior hardware on the strength of games that couldn't be played elsewhere.

The greater accusation that the project is a scam is likewise unfounded. They raised money and then developed an android based game console. What people seem to ignore about kick starter is that you are gambling money on a promise. In this case, a giant pile of money was gambled on a product made by people with no demonstrable history of hardware design and manufacture. Between the inexperience of those facing the public in this capacity, the insignificant sum of money raised and the absurd cost of development of this sort of device, that gamble wasn't smart. People who view kickstarter as "investing" are fools of the highest order - at least if it was a proper investment, gambling on the long shot might pay off. The best you could ever hope for in this case was that you would receive a functional android brick thing that played games on your TV.

And why, oh why would you ever want that?

 

[Something Amyss]

The fact the THE ESCAPIST and other gaming "journalism" outlets fail to get on OUYA'S case about the 3 month+ delay of shipment, not to mention the faulty product... it's just unacceptable.

Since it's barely a console, maybe they think it's barely newsworthy.

 

[Vivi22]

OUYA raised 8.5mm usd, then they went out and found another 12mm usd from v. capitalists (that includes nvidia).. they are not short on capital.

Unless you have some insider knowledge about the costs to launch that console and their financial position, you are in absolutely no position to make that statement. At all.

 

[lacktheknack]

The fact that people received Ouyas negates "scam" claims. Because that's not what "scam" means.

Sure, incompetence and bad selection of shipping are still serious issues, but it means I have to trudge through yet another thread with "buzzword buzzword buzzword buzzword" going through my head like it's the Autobahn. It would be so nice to have a thread where I didn't have to do that. But no, internet denizens are entirely incapable of stating an opinion without adding in a hideous exaggeration/damned lie for effect.

 

[gavinmcinns]

It is incredibly bold to claim that you know precisely what it has cost to research, develop, manufacture, and distribute this device to many thousands - which is what you're doing when you assert that 20.5 million USD was sufficient for the task. Do you, for example, know what the acquisition cost of the various bits of silicon are? How much it costs to assemble? What it cost for development of the OS (yes it's android based but they didn't just slap a default version in there)? How much you pay to run the distribution center? How much it costs to drum up support and evangelize the platform to developers.

20.5 million USD isn't a great deal of money for a job like this. It is an insignificant fraction of the cost of development and distribution of any of the other consoles currently on the market.

As far as why the media was "short-sighted", the answer is fairly easy: they weren't. The common trend of report I observed was that the Ouya was an interesting experiment. I personally never saw any editorial actually predicting success. After the release of the device, it received reviews that generally went in the form of "Well, the games suck, the controller sucks, the OS sucks but I guess it's not bad as a potential Roku replacement".

But all that misses the greater point that the hardware fundamentally has little to do with how well this product will be received. The software is what counts. Just because something has garbage hardware does not mean it is impossible to imagine that someone will make an game worth playing on the device. Look no further than Nintendo's strategy for the last three consoles for proof - each time they produced the slowest machine and yet each time they managed to move the inferior hardware on the strength of games that couldn't be played elsewhere.

The greater accusation that the project is a scam is likewise unfounded. They raised money and then developed an android based game console. What people seem to ignore about kick starter is that you are gambling money on a promise. In this case, a giant pile of money was gambled on a product made by people with no demonstrable history of hardware design and manufacture. Between the inexperience of those facing the public in this capacity, the insignificant sum of money raised and the absurd cost of development of this sort of device, that gamble wasn't smart. People who view kickstarter as "investing" are fools of the highest order - at least if it was a proper investment, gambling on the long shot might pay off. The best you could ever hope for in this case was that you would receive a functional android brick thing that played games on your TV.

And why, oh why would you ever want that?

I don't proclaim to know any of that, I just know it is a hell of a lot more than 20.5 mm to develop a legitimate console. What doesn't take a lot to develop for is a plastic box with a wifi reciever and an old phone gpu. You say it isn't just a generic gpu, but I don't really see what you mean beyond the (very) basic interface. Not to mention the interface places all kinds of restrictions on you, intended (DRM, touted as an OPEN platform mind you) and unintended (buggy controls, freezes etc..)

How do i know they have money? They just started a 1mm developer "fund", presumably in escrow. The product is crap jim, and to be honest I wouldn't be able to tell if it was a $10mm turd or a $20.5mm turd. And that is the whole point, there is no transparency so we don't know for sure if this was all a semi-elaborate scam cooked up to squeeze money out of gullible people on the internet, or if the leadership over there are victims of their own childish naivete. I'm gonna go with scam.

I don't know for sure if there is a massive man in the sky swinging his dick around and controlling all of our lives, but I'm gonna take a shot in the dark with that one too.

They are still discussing OUYA 2, making the reaping an annually recurring thing.

 

[lunavixen]

It's more likely to be incompetence on Ouyas part, not a scam. BUT, I've been reading further through the comments and some of the people who do have it, have major issues with the Ouya regarding quality (the etching on the controllers, general support from the Ouya people and shipping delays).

The idea behind the Ouya is a good one, but the practice is where it's falling down. They're in over their heads.

 

[gavinmcinns]

The fact that people received Ouyas negates "scam" claims. Because that's not what "scam" means.

Sure, incompetence and bad selection of shipping are still serious issues, but it means I have to trudge through yet another thread with "buzzword buzzword buzzword buzzword" going through my head like it's the Autobahn. It would be so nice to have a thread where I didn't have to do that. But no, internet denizens are entirely incapable of stating an opinion without adding in a hideous exaggeration/damned lie for effect.

No, it doesn't. If we are sticking to the definition: "a dishonest scheme", it is entirely possible that OUYA is just that. If I promise all kinds of shit I can't possibly deliver on KNOWINGLY, then it is a scam whether or not a put a faulty turd in your hand.

In the case of Uhrman, it may just be that she has the mind of a 12 year old and just thought everything was going to work out. In this case I wouldn't say she scammed us, but rather she would be guilty of a lesser crime, involuntary paycheck slaughter.

Maybe calling it a scam outright is a little inflammatory, but that is the emotion I have right now. I don't want to turn you or others like you off of the discussion because you are obviously capable of supporting one, but please don't just assume I'm a troll that just wants to rant and not listen. Yea, ranting is a part of it, but just because it is a rant doesn't mean I don't have valid concerns about what may or may not be a scam, and the impact of the OUYA on other legitimate kickstarter projects going forward.

Like someone else said, the bubble will inevitably burst at some point (i think it has already), it's just sad to me that an idea with so much potential to create a lot of true art was wasted on this... thing.

 

[IntangibleMango]

I'd like to say that I backed the OUYA, and I've had mine for months, and definitely before the retailers got it.

The angry people are the minority, where whilst it's a shame, they have already emailed all backers to explain problems and why and that they apologise for the problems, but again it's a very vocal minority.

 

[cookyy2k]

Simply kickstarter is not amazon. You are not putting money in and then getting your product out. You are investing your money with a company and hoping that investment matures. I have a feeling people's inability to grasp this concept is what will kill kickstarter eventually, pity it's a nice idea in theory. Also I have my Ouya and it's a great little distraction when I want to switch off which is all I got it for.

 

[alexmillard]

They shipped it to some backers at least, I've played it. It is a smartphone that plugs into a TV. That's it. No more no less. Want to play tons of emulated content? Great! want to have a modern game experience? too bad.

They are certainly in over their heads.

But scam implies forethought and intent to deceive. I doubt they had either. As for the media... um.. the Ouya has been SAVAGED by numerous outlets. That's the journalists job, review the console and it's games (or lack of games), which is what they have done and mercilessly.

Game journalists generally don't report on Kickstarter comment chains about order fulfillment. I for one am glad about that.

 

[LetalisK]

But if you're wanting your money back, I'm sure a good old fashioned witch hunt will make a wad of cash materialise somehow.

A wad of something, that's for certain.

Sorry, this isn't a scam. Just because someone is incapable or incompetent doesn't mean they're malicious.

 

[Dante dynamite]

I'd like to say that I backed the OUYA, and I've had mine for months, and definitely before the retailers got it.

The angry people are the minority, where whilst it's a shame, they have already emailed all backers to explain problems and why and that they apologise for the problems, but again it's a very vocal minority.

Actually its not the minority thousands of backers got their consoles after retailers it actually is a big shitstorm and the PR team isn't doing much to help just ignoring that fact and keeps promoting something or another.
You should check out their facebook page its hilarious but that's because I am a horrible person. You see all types of butt hurt there from haters and fanboys but you should have seen it a couple of months ago it was wayyyyyy worse.

I have even heard of people having to pay again for customs and shipping or the console being completely damaged it was an huge disaster.

 

[briankoontz]

First, if the Ouya creators don't say anything, there's not much for the media to report. Aside from the occasional headline "Some Ouya backers still don't have consoles. Many angry." there's not a lot to write. Investigative journalism should play a part? Maybe. That doesn't reeeeally happen in this industry. And maybe that's a fault: that journalists just absorb PR and give it to the rest of us, but there we go. I don't know if I blame them, most of the big players in the industry are tight lipped at the best of times, and silent at the worst.

Not "maybe", that's definitely a fault. Journalism is about finding the truth, not being an industry PR shill.

If the Ouya creators don't say anything, then actual journalists would include the omission of statement from them in their report, and they would know there was an omission of statement because they would *ask them for a statement* and not receive a reply. That's the way to obtain an omission of statement.

Journalism is about three things - determining what's important, determining the truth of that important matter, and then publicizing that truth. Anyone not doing this is not a journalist. Typical industry shills become corrupt on steps 1 and 2, taking "what's important" to be whatever maximizes the profit of the capitalists in the industry, and then publicize the shit out of the industry propaganda.

Being an actual journalist requires both bravery and integrity. Just ask Edward Snowden, Bradley Manning, and Julian Assange, or the lesser known Paul Jay or Edward R. Murrow.

Industry PR shills hide behind their "enthusiasm for the medium" in order to evade the self-realization that they are frauds.

 

[clippen05]

I honestly laugh at the people who bought this. People were making it seem like the second coming of Christ, and yet, here we are with a console that is essentially no better than an Android Smartphone. Of course it sucks.

 

[newwiseman]

No rage here. I received mine when the email said it would arrive. My only complaint is the over scan on my displays, though games don't have that issue just the ouya screens, their software devs are idiots not to address it.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

I wouldn't call it a scam just yet.

So far it seems like a case of naive people with no experience in the hardware market reaching far beyond what their competence allows, combined with a hype that created bloated, unrealistic expectations in the public.

Until news of actual foul play reaches my ears, that is all the Ouya will be to me.

 

[cookyy2k]

You should check out their facebook page its hilarious but that's because I am a horrible person. You see all types of butt hurt there from haters and fanboys but you should have seen it a couple of months ago it was wayyyyyy worse.

Well it must be serious then, you never see hyperbolic butthurt on facebook unless it's really super serious! /sarcasm

This is the internet, a place where a very small amount of butthurt individuals can make a stupid amount of noise. I doubt your claim of "many thousands".

EDIT

Being an actual journalist requires both bravery and integrity. Just ask Edward Snowden, Bradley Manning...

Really? Being a traitor is now actual journalism and they're brave? Then as if I wasn't laughing hard enough you add integrity? Those two are the exact opposite of what integrity is!