The Overwatch Team Plans to Look Into Lowering Widowmaker's "Frustration Threshold"

[Seraj33]

Let me give you all a comprehensive list of all the things that are good about Widowmaker.

She has 200hp.
Her rifle does 150 damage on a fully charged body shot. 300 on a headshot. (195 with Mercy boost and 292 if the target has discord orb aswell)
Her rifle charges in a second.
Her assault rifle does equal damage to S76 and has more amunition (but has lower accuray).
She has higher mobility than Phara in many aspects.
She has one of the smallest hitboxes in the game.
Her ult is concidered cheating in most other online shooters and it charges very quickly.
Her other ability is a mine that does 75 damage over time.
Her rifle is hitscan. (All you need to do is click the enemy)

Interesting observations.

Zenyatta has 150 HP and can be oneshot no matter what by Widomaker, making him very limited or even useless in games where she is played.
Pharas rockets do 120 on a direct hit compared to Widomakers minimum 150 hitscan.
Giving your entire team Wallhack makes her safe from Tracers, Genjis, etc trying to flank.
Even if you do flank her, few characters can either chase her or outdamage her in time before her team can help her.

Now I can say for sure that I would not be upset if they tweaked her a little.
A streamer I watched (Ster) put it really well.
She works well in competetive play because she fills a certain function and can be countered if the teams coordinate and do certain strategies, like rushing her with Winstons.
But in Quick Play where people just want to hang out and play their favourite characters, it can be extremely frustrating to be forced into passitivity and switching by Widowmakers EVERY game.
So there isn't really anything wrong with her in a game mechanic and balance standpoint. But out of a fun standpoint she is broken.

 

[Silence]

Hanzo is far more stupid and annoying (even though not unbalanced either). I mean "SPAM ARROW SPAM ARROW SPAM ARROW OH HEADSHOT"

... but I actually can get behind the idea of letting Zenyatta survive a single shot.

 

[Zydrate]

I tend to find her annoying only once per match - Once you find her position she's incredibly easy to trounce and for that reason, I don't play her much myself.

 

[RedDeadFred]

That's the problem; if they nerf her sniping damage then she's going to be woefully underpowered. She's kind of a one trick pony and so she gets easily countered. Her ult is awesome, but it's no Hanzo ult.

She's not easily countered though. She has an extremely good way to get out of flanks, so as long as the player doesn't tunnel vision and has a team that can communicate decently, she'll be tough to get at. Top teams are running TWO Winstons to deal with her because against a great Widow, one just isn't enough.

I've seen a change suggested that I think is pretty good. Lower her body shot damage to 100 so that she's not one-shotting the squishiest heroes so easily, but give her a passive that gives her triple headshot damage. This means her headshots do the same damage as they currently do while her body shots aren't so punishing. Also, give her ult a global indicator (you can only hear it if you're very close to her right now). It's probably the best ult in the game right now and it charges very quickly. Enemies would know to be a bit more cautious, but it still provides your team with valuable information.

 

[kajinking]

I'm not sure what they can do with her either. Maybe reduce her health a bit so she's a bit more vulnerable to a lucky flanker that gets through?

 

[Steven Bogos]

I disagree with the slower charging - i think the nerf that needs to happen concerns the delay between shots. As it stands now, if you land a fully charged body shot on someone, you can very quickly follow up with an uncharged, or several uncharged shots to kill them before they have a chance to really react.

A fully charged headshot: yes that should kill. It takes skill to get the headshot off, so bravo. But a bodyshot followed up but another quick low-damage bodyshot just feels cheap. Often I will take the bodyshot, notice my health plummet, and before i have a chance to get to cover, the follow-up shot has already killed me.

So, I feel like there should be delay of maybe 1s between shots (maybe an animation of her pulling back a bolt or something - chambering a new round), so if she misses the headshot she cant just spam minimum damage shots to finish someone off.

 

[Drops a Sweet Katana]

Yeah a slight retool would not go amiss. I think her per-shot damage for the sniper rifle is fine and is only really a problem because of Zenyatta, who should be given extra shields/health anyway due to his squishiness. As others have said, a slower charge rate would be the most important thing, maybe with more penalties for shooting at low charge. This could be for example a shot spread, which would negate the quick follow-up shots finishing off a lot of the 200hp characters. What could also be implemented is a brief cooldown between shots or at least a reduction in the rate of fire to punish trigger spam. Maybe a slow down the switch from sniper rifle to assault rifle, but honestly I haven't had that be an issue. I don't think her sniper's damage should be reduced and I don't think she should be given less health.

 

[Metalrocks]

i wonder what they can change with her. i know some complained about her rifle charging too fast, which i think is bollocks. she is in the background since she is not suitable for close combat. if they want to nerf her, then maybe make her assault rifle a bit stronger.

I can't speak for the console crowd, but on PC Widowmaker and Hanzo are incredibly overpowered. Their hitboxes are way too forgiving because they share the same ones as the console, yet the mouse is vastly more precise. They both need penalties for rapid firing or changes to the hitboxes. Any of the 200hp or lower characters are dead or nearly death with a chest shot. I'm fine with a fully charged chest/head shot taking out the squishy characters, but there is barely any penalty for rapid fire. Oh hey you only hit them in the arm or leg, just limp wrist another arrow out or quickly squeeze the trigger again and that guy is dead.

The fact that Widow and Hanzo can literally shut out an entire team should speak wonders, plus they're both highly mobile.

i play on PC.

but its a sniper. snipers are always in the background and fire one powerful shot. weakening her damage would be stupid and illogical. only because some characters have less health doenst mean its great against bigger types. if they would really do that, i can see that she will be the least picked character because no one wants to shoot 6 headshots to get someone down. by that time they would have spotted you and quickly kill you. its like fighting a dragon with a water pistol.

i play her a lot and is my favorite character, but i also got killed many times as well because its not always easy, even with a mouse, to hit your target. especially if you try to aim at hte head when they are moving all over the place, because they are engaged against others. its rewarding when you hit and kill them with one shot. if this gets nerfed, you rather get aggravated when your shot does hardly anything.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

I disagree with the slower charging - i think the nerf that needs to happen concerns the delay between shots. As it stands now, if you land a fully charged body shot on someone, you can very quickly follow up with an uncharged, or several uncharged shots to kill them before they have a chance to really react.

A fully charged headshot: yes that should kill. It takes skill to get the headshot off, so bravo. But a bodyshot followed up but another quick low-damage bodyshot just feels cheap. Often I will take the bodyshot, notice my health plummet, and before i have a chance to get to cover, the follow-up shot has already killed me.

So, I feel like there should be delay of maybe 1s between shots (maybe an animation of her pulling back a bolt or something - chambering a new round), so if she misses the headshot she cant just spam minimum damage shots to finish someone off.

while I agree with this mostly, I would also like some more feedback. If the widowmaker is getting trounced by fire, she shouldn't be getting off a headshot still (short of pure luck) with perfect aim, the amount of times that I was strafing and firing back midrange with soldier or pharah, and still ended up getting sniped when widowmaker was 1 shot away from dying was very frustrating.

 

[Sight Unseen]

i wonder what they can change with her. i know some complained about her rifle charging too fast, which i think is bollocks. she is in the background since she is not suitable for close combat. if they want to nerf her, then maybe make her assault rifle a bit stronger.

I can't speak for the console crowd, but on PC Widowmaker and Hanzo are incredibly overpowered. Their hitboxes are way too forgiving because they share the same ones as the console, yet the mouse is vastly more precise. They both need penalties for rapid firing or changes to the hitboxes. Any of the 200hp or lower characters are dead or nearly death with a chest shot. I'm fine with a fully charged chest/head shot taking out the squishy characters, but there is barely any penalty for rapid fire. Oh hey you only hit them in the arm or leg, just limp wrist another arrow out or quickly squeeze the trigger again and that guy is dead.

The fact that Widow and Hanzo can literally shut out an entire team should speak wonders, plus they're both highly mobile.

Widowmaker's gun is hitscan, so her hitbox it just the body of whoever she's shooting at. That's not the problem with Widowmaker. Her problem is that her gun does SO much damage and recharges tofull power SO fast.

 

[Sight Unseen]

i wonder what they can change with her. i know some complained about her rifle charging too fast, which i think is bollocks. she is in the background since she is not suitable for close combat. if they want to nerf her, then maybe make her assault rifle a bit stronger.

I can't speak for the console crowd, but on PC Widowmaker and Hanzo are incredibly overpowered. Their hitboxes are way too forgiving because they share the same ones as the console, yet the mouse is vastly more precise. They both need penalties for rapid firing or changes to the hitboxes. Any of the 200hp or lower characters are dead or nearly death with a chest shot. I'm fine with a fully charged chest/head shot taking out the squishy characters, but there is barely any penalty for rapid fire. Oh hey you only hit them in the arm or leg, just limp wrist another arrow out or quickly squeeze the trigger again and that guy is dead.

The fact that Widow and Hanzo can literally shut out an entire team should speak wonders, plus they're both highly mobile.

Widowmaker's gun is hitscan, so her hitbox it just the body of whoever she's shooting at. That's not the problem with Widowmaker. Her problem is that her gun does SO much damage and recharges tofull power SO fast.

i wonder what they can change with her. i know some complained about her rifle charging too fast, which i think is bollocks. she is in the background since she is not suitable for close combat. if they want to nerf her, then maybe make her assault rifle a bit stronger.

I can't speak for the console crowd, but on PC Widowmaker and Hanzo are incredibly overpowered. Their hitboxes are way too forgiving because they share the same ones as the console, yet the mouse is vastly more precise. They both need penalties for rapid firing or changes to the hitboxes. Any of the 200hp or lower characters are dead or nearly death with a chest shot. I'm fine with a fully charged chest/head shot taking out the squishy characters, but there is barely any penalty for rapid fire. Oh hey you only hit them in the arm or leg, just limp wrist another arrow out or quickly squeeze the trigger again and that guy is dead.

The fact that Widow and Hanzo can literally shut out an entire team should speak wonders, plus they're both highly mobile.

i play on PC.

but its a sniper. snipers are always in the background and fire one powerful shot. weakening her damage would be stupid and illogical. only because some characters have less health doenst mean its great against bigger types. if they would really do that, i can see that she will be the least picked character because no one wants to shoot 6 headshots to get someone down. by that time they would have spotted you and quickly kill you. its like fighting a dragon with a water pistol.

i play her a lot and is my favorite character, but i also got killed many times as well because its not always easy, even with a mouse, to hit your target. especially if you try to aim at hte head when they are moving all over the place, because they are engaged against others. its rewarding when you hit and kill them with one shot. if this gets nerfed, you rather get aggravated when your shot does hardly anything.

I think lowering her body shot damage would make sense. Characters like Zenyatta, Tracer, and Zero Suit D.Va die in a single fully charged body shot to Widowmaker, and many others die in a quick followup bodyshot. Headshots should still do crazy damage, but she shouldn't be able to kill characters in one bodyshot.

 

[Bobular]

I've never had a problem with a Widowmaker that wasn't easily sorted by flanking her and putting a few rounds into her head when she's not looking (PC).

As far as I'm concerned the game is almost perfectly balanced as is and I don't like the idea of there being loads of balance changes as the game goes on.

 

[Davroth]

Was that a problem in TF 2? I don't remember ever hearing that. Blizzard seems to keep on trying to cater to the lowest common denominator to make their games 'less frustrating', for people who don't do counter picking I guess.

 

[Imeera]

Basically if a team has a good widowmaker the entire game revolves around her. She isn't bad in lower skill levels because they can't aim, but when you have a player landing 9/10 shots and half of those are headshots, she completely changes how you have to play.

 

[Liljumpman]

Lol.

Widow needs a nerf because her ult is up extremely often and it gives you team wide wall hacks.

That ultimate alone makes her completely broken.

 

[K12]

My frustration threshold has been pretty high since discovering all the widowmaker porn videos.

 

[elvor0]

Was that a problem in TF 2? I don't remember ever hearing that. Blizzard seems to keep on trying to cater to the lowest common denominator to make their games 'less frustrating', for people who don't do counter picking I guess.

TF2 sniper has charge, only his is much slower than Widowmaker and can't gib people with a single body shot. He also isn't anywhere near as powerful as Widowmaker or as mobile. This problem is the very reason the TF2 sniper /has/ charge on his sniper and why it became a thing. Don't purposefully misframe the situation just so you can bemoan the lowest common denominator when all you've got is guesswork.

 

[Headsprouter]

Thanks Blizzard. Considering the Sniper of TF2 can still potentially win every fight (taking into account spatial awareness and map context) with thrice the struggles of Widowmaker (literally takes 3.3 seconds to charge fully, Widow takes one, has to pause and unscope between shots, Widow has essentially no pause and can stay scoped, among other things) this is very welcome.

People often fail to consider a sniper isn't supposed to be easily accessible. Ever. The skill ceiling on a long range point and click adventurer is so astronomically high compared to Roadhog, for example, that Sniper classes need to be crippled (in a challenging way, not a nerfed into the ground way) while keeping the experience fun and the sniper useful.

I don't think nerfing any of her damage is necessary, I think pasting over the concepts from TF2's Sniper with some fine tuning to the game will help astronomically. No more forgiving firing speed allowing for 4 or more headshot attempts in the span of 2 seconds, especially. Maybe the charge can be kept as is to adjust for the pace of Overwatch.

Some talked about nerfing bodyshot damage to help Zenyatta. I think he's doing fine. If properly protected from assassins he is devastating, his low mobility and frailness excuse this power. Widow could use less health, though, having no real hard counter thanks to her grappling hook, traps and...being a sniper.

Overall, I'm thinking:

Leave damage.
Leave charge rate(?).
Remove need to reload while sniping.
Decrease fire rate.
Unscope between shots(?).
Reduce health to 150 so she has less time to grapple out of close quarters engagements.

I have no idea what to do about the ult though, if anything. Pubs don't make great use of it, but I can only imagine competitive players with eagle eyes and cat like reflexes using it. *Shudder*