The Overwatch Team Plans to Look Into Lowering Widowmaker's "Frustration Threshold"

[Drejer43]

im wondering if the people who claim she isn't op are playing on consoles

 

[Drops a Sweet Katana]

im wondering if the people who claim she isn't op are playing on consoles

As others have pointed out, she's fairly balanced in lower level play, since newer or less skilled players won't land those hit nearly reliably enough to be unbalanced. She much more unbalanced at higher levels of play where a skilled Widowmaker will almost always hit their target, and can reliably land headshots, which, at full charge, kill pretty much all non-tank heroes in one shot, leading to certain heroes being phased out of the game entirely.

This is true of both console and PC.

 

[Imeera]

Thanks Blizzard. Considering the Sniper of TF2 can still potentially win every fight (taking into account spatial awareness and map context) with thrice the struggles of Widowmaker (literally takes 3.3 seconds to charge fully, Widow takes one, has to pause and unscope between shots, Widow has essentially no pause and can stay scoped, among other things) this is very welcome.

People often fail to consider a sniper isn't supposed to be easily accessible. Ever. The skill ceiling on a long range point and click adventurer is so astronomically high compared to Roadhog, for example, that Sniper classes need to be crippled (in a challenging way, not a nerfed into the ground way) while keeping the experience fun and the sniper useful.

I don't think nerfing any of her damage is necessary, I think pasting over the concepts from TF2's Sniper with some fine tuning to the game will help astronomically. No more forgiving firing speed allowing for 4 or more headshot attempts in the span of 2 seconds, especially. Maybe the charge can be kept as is to adjust for the pace of Overwatch.

Some talked about nerfing bodyshot damage to help Zenyatta. I think he's doing fine. If properly protected from assassins he is devastating, his low mobility and frailness excuse this power. Widow could use less health, though, having no real hard counter thanks to her grappling hook, traps and...being a sniper.

Overall, I'm thinking:

Leave damage.
Leave charge rate(?).
Remove need to reload while sniping.
Decrease fire rate.
Unscope between shots(?).
Reduce health to 150 so she has less time to grapple out of close quarters engagements.

I have no idea what to do about the ult though, if anything. Pubs don't make great use of it, but I can only imagine competitive players with eagle eyes and cat like reflexes using it. *Shudder*

I would like to see the charge time slightly increased, no higher than 1.5 seconds at first.

Zenyatta on the other hand is a weird one. He's so squishy and is a support so you don't expect to see just how much damage he can do, especially with his orb on you. Obviously that's not the ideal situation for him to be in with his tiny 150 health, but i'm never really sure what to do with him.

 

[Broslinger]

*Laughs in Mei player*

Widowmaker is perfectly fine. Actually, everything is pretty much fine except, possibly, Mei.

 

[cikame]

Characters that actually do damage getting nerfed, in a game where most of the weapons feel weak from the start, it started as a game that wasn't for me and aims to go further down that path .

 

[Headsprouter]

I would like to see the charge time slightly increased, no higher than 1.5 seconds at first.

Zenyatta on the other hand is a weird one. He's so squishy and is a support so you don't expect to see just how much damage he can do, especially with his orb on you. Obviously that's not the ideal situation for him to be in with his tiny 150 health, but i'm never really sure what to do with him.

For what it's worth, Zenyatta's upper-tier when it comes to popularity in competitive play. I made it my mission to make him my support main since the full release of the game so it makes me feel a little sheepish considering he might even be overpowered, but I like to sit in my happy place and say "competitive just knows how to keep him safe" and "his low health and low mobility excuse his strength". Maybe I'm right in those things, who knows.

As for how to adjust Widow in favour of fun for the people she's shooting at, I'll just wait and see what Blizzard does. As long as they're doing something.

*Laughs in Mei player*

Widowmaker is perfectly fine. Actually, everything is pretty much fine except, possibly, Mei.

I'd bring up Mei being less popular in competitive, but I think the main goal of Blizzard is probably fun (in fact, they literally say their ethos is fun) so I think if the Mei complaints get particularly high they may well adjust her anyway seeing as it's pretty popular to consider her "not fun to play against". My main concern is her commitment issues, it's hard to kill/get away from Mei when she can ice wall you in with her, ice wall herself out or hide and heal in her ice block.

Here's the tier list [http://static1.squarespace.com/static/56b3cac001dbae7de45090ec/t/56f9e77eac962cd0e23410c1/1459218457223/%235+Meta+Report+Tier+Infographic.png] I'm referring to. You'll notice Widow isn't picked THAT often, but she never fell far below 15%. And like I say, not fun things are worth adjusting. Perhaps Blizzard is thinking of adding a new mechanic rather than tweaking any stats.

(butseriouslyblizzardnerfthatfirerateitsfuckingdumb)

 

[Catface Meowmers]

Zenyatta on the other hand is a weird one. He's so squishy and is a support so you don't expect to see just how much damage he can do, especially with his orb on you. Obviously that's not the ideal situation for him to be in with his tiny 150 health, but i'm never really sure what to do with him.

Zenyatta's damage is crazy, but he really needs good teamwork to be the most effective. A decent Zenyatta can hide behind a shield and take out a Bastion before the shield dies. He can also be a decent counter-sniper if he's shielded.

 

[Frankster]

As others have pointed out, she's fairly balanced in lower level play, since newer or less skilled players won't land those hit nearly reliably enough to be unbalanced.

i play her a lot and is my favorite character, but i also got killed many times as well because its not always easy, even with a mouse, to hit your target. especially if you try to aim at hte head when they are moving all over the place, because they are engaged against others. its rewarding when you hit and kill them with one shot. if this gets nerfed, you rather get aggravated when your shot does hardly anything.

Ok I dunno if this is cos you're playing on consoles but this bs of "it's so hard to be good with widowmaker" needs to stop right the fuck now. In close to my 30 years of living to this world I have always been a sucky sniper, no worst then sucky, the worst sniper you will EVER see in your goddamned life.

I don't have the mentality for it, and can't aim with a mouse to save my life (grew up with consoles and controllers so keyboard+mouse still doesn't feel natural to me, id rather play with a controller), so I tend to gravitate towards inaccurate weapons and spray and pray tactics, high precision sniping is the anti frankster.

But Widowmaker? The first time I was forced to play her I got POTG (triple kill) and was just headshotting bitches' left and right all game. It was friggin obscene. You don't even have to actually hit your target!!!! You just have to mouse over them, have a little box that locks on like you're some sort of F-16 pilot firing heat seeking missiles, and bam, they are dead!
If they arent dead they are almost dead, and you just fire again, not like you have recoil affecting your aim and being shot at won't disturb you either. Wow! Such skill, such hardness!

Couple that with an easy to use escape and the wall hacks and this was the easiest sniper i've ever played in any game.

Usually to be a good sniper, you need to have godly aim, an extensive knowledge of the map to know most likely enemy routes and spots of counter snipers, and perfect positioning and timing.

With widowmaker you don't really need ANY of those above 3 to be effective. You don't need to know how to be a good shot with widow, imo it takes far more skill to land good rocket shots with Pharah , you don't need to worry about navigating terrain to get to a good snipe position thanks to your grapple, and your ulti allows you to never be surprised unless you have tunnel vision and stare into your scope all day.

Honestly I barely consider Widowmaker a "true" sniper because that lock on ability removes the element of skillful sniping, its like letting a car drive itself yet still consider the person seated at the wheel as driving.
Though snipers are often derided as being point and clickers, in widows case it is actually true. If you have a horrible widow in your game, then chances are it's because they are 12 years old or have the tactical acumen of a suicidal lemming, not because they can't shoot, because knowing how to shoot is not a requirement for widow.. Ok nevermind that was a lame attempt at humor, I guess I can't see how it's possible past the early levels to really suck at wm with the shooting aspect, maybe in positioning and being caught out and what not..
Widowmaker on pc is a sniper with training wheels, the tutorial for if you want to learn how to play a sniper in a competitive environment despite not having most of the skillset required to be a good sniper in other games.

In conclusion: skill ceiling for widow is the lowest of any sniper in any other fps game ever.
It is not hard to be semi competent with her, because a lot of the skills needed to be an amazingly OP sniper in other game, are automated or made trivial when playing widow.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Honestly I barely consider Widowmaker a "true" sniper because that lock on ability removes the element of skillful sniping, its like letting a car drive itself yet still consider the person seated at the wheel as driving.

What lock on?

I've played widow too, and yeah, she's a much easier sniper character, but she doesn't have a lock-on as far as I could tell (if she did, I wouldn't miss like 60% of my shots against non-tanks. I can snipe WAY better with Soldier 76 by firing in bursts)

The little square blinky thing is just the indicator that you've hit max charge, NOT some kind of lock on mechanic.

 

[Drops a Sweet Katana]

As others have pointed out, she's fairly balanced in lower level play, since newer or less skilled players won't land those hit nearly reliably enough to be unbalanced.

i play her a lot and is my favorite character, but i also got killed many times as well because its not always easy, even with a mouse, to hit your target. especially if you try to aim at hte head when they are moving all over the place, because they are engaged against others. its rewarding when you hit and kill them with one shot. if this gets nerfed, you rather get aggravated when your shot does hardly anything.

Ok I dunno if this is cos you're playing on consoles but this bs of "it's so hard to be good with widowmaker" needs to stop right the fuck now. In close to my 30 years of living to this world I have always been a sucky sniper, no worst then sucky, the worst sniper you will EVER see in your goddamned life.

I don't have the mentality for it, and can't aim with a mouse to save my life (grew up with consoles and controllers so keyboard+mouse still doesn't feel natural to me, id rather play with a controller), so I tend to gravitate towards inaccurate weapons and spray and pray tactics, high precision sniping is the anti frankster.

But Widowmaker? The first time I was forced to play her I got POTG (triple kill) and was just headshotting bitches' left and right all game. It was friggin obscene. You don't even have to actually hit your target!!!! You just have to mouse over them, have a little box that locks on like you're some sort of F-16 pilot firing heat seeking missiles, and bam, they are dead!
If they arent dead they are almost dead, and you just fire again, not like you have recoil affecting your aim and being shot at won't disturb you either. Wow! Such skill, such hardness!

Couple that with an easy to use escape and the wall hacks and this was the easiest sniper i've ever played in any game.

Usually to be a good sniper, you need to have godly aim, an extensive knowledge of the map to know most likely enemy routes and spots of counter snipers, and perfect positioning and timing.

With widowmaker you don't really need ANY of those above 3 to be effective. You don't need to know how to be a good shot with widow, imo it takes far more skill to land good rocket shots with Pharah , you don't need to worry about navigating terrain to get to a good snipe position thanks to your grapple, and your ulti allows you to never be surprised unless you have tunnel vision and stare into your scope all day.

Honestly I barely consider Widowmaker a "true" sniper because that lock on ability removes the element of skillful sniping, its like letting a car drive itself yet still consider the person seated at the wheel as driving.
Though snipers are often derided as being point and clickers, in widows case it is actually true. If you have a horrible widow in your game, then chances are it's because they are 12 years old or have the tactical acumen of a suicidal lemming, not because they can't shoot, because knowing how to shoot is not a requirement for widow
Widowmaker on pc is a sniper with training wheels, the tutorial for if you want to learn how to play a sniper in a competitive environment despite not having most of the skillset required to be a good sniper in other games.

In conclusion: skill ceiling for widow is the lowest of any sniper in any other fps game ever.
It is not hard to be semi competent with her, because a lot of the skills needed to be an amazingly OP sniper in other game, are automated or made trivial when playing widow.

No one's (least I'm not) saying she's particularly hard to play, only that at lower levels players aren't gonna be playing her effectively enough to become a problem to the game balance like she is at higher levels. Also there is no lock-on ability. The little square that pops up around the crosshair is to tell you that the shot is fully charged.

 

[Ciartan]

Widow is abit too strong right now IMO, needs a small nerf on her charge timer, or make her have to switch to her assault rifle, like Mercy has to switch to her gun.

 

[Charli]

Climbing up the ladder I am going against some increasingly frustrating widow players, but I truly don't have any thoughts as to how to nerf her, flanking a good widowmaker is not easy, because she will be on the move alot.

At the first 60 levels or so, most widowmakers were easy to pin down and remove from play, but now? I'm feeling the strain.

 

[Frankster]

What lock on?

I've played widow too, and yeah, she's a much easier sniper character, but she doesn't have a lock-on as far as I could tell (if she did, I wouldn't miss like 60% of my shots against non-tanks. I can snipe WAY better with Soldier 76 by firing in bursts)

The little square blinky thing is just the indicator that you've hit max charge, NOT some kind of lock on mechanic.

That's not what I'm refering to (though now that you mention it..that is hilarious, only reinforces the f-16 metaphor xD) but the way her sniper gun's hit priority+hitboxes or w/e works. I have no clue how this works beyond remembering the bits that interested me when browsed overwatch stff on reddit,but basically the gun has an inbuilt adjustment so long as you scroll on your target (don't bother trying for headshots) and together with priority being in your favor for most abilities you got quite a few crutches to assist your aiming.
Compared to a more hardcore fps where you really need to have pixel perfect accuracy, with WM you have a generous window from being on the right pixel to not being on it. That's about as best as I can put it.

Overwatch is full of little things like this, it's part of why it feels so easier to play and get into then other multi fps. Another example I know of is as Pharah, even if you jump jet in time to avoid certain abilities, you will still be killed as if you were there due to prioty . One of the things an overwatch dev mentioned as possible upcoming balance changes for her is Pharah's jump jet would have a higher priority, allowing her not only to escape, but say, to escape a widow maker's shot if she press jump jet 0.01 seconds after widowmaker fires.

 

[SolomonGrundy]

What's strange for me is I feel she's almost the exact opposite on consoles.

She's slow as she's defense, but she's low hp and it's pretty hard to aim consistently with thumbsticks. Meanwhile everyone else is constantly strafing and moving all the time.

I find her to be arguably weaker than almost everyone else because of this. She requires more focus and luck than others that can just say, loft rockets in a general area and get kills while having a more than adequate escape ability.

 

[elvor0]

What lock on?

I've played widow too, and yeah, she's a much easier sniper character, but she doesn't have a lock-on as far as I could tell (if she did, I wouldn't miss like 60% of my shots against non-tanks. I can snipe WAY better with Soldier 76 by firing in bursts)

The little square blinky thing is just the indicator that you've hit max charge, NOT some kind of lock on mechanic.

That's not what I'm refering to (though now that you mention it..that is hilarious, only reinforces the f-16 metaphor xD) but the way her sniper gun's hit priority+hitboxes or w/e works. I have no clue how this works beyond remembering the bits that interested me when browsed overwatch stff on reddit,but basically the gun has an inbuilt adjustment so long as you scroll on your target (don't bother trying for headshots) and together with priority being in your favor for most abilities you got quite a few crutches to assist your aiming.

That isn't a lock on either, and there is no aim assist(perhaps on consoles, but so does everyone). People just have bigger head hitboxes in OW. There is no special way widowmakers gun functions in terms of generic hitscan and aiming.