The Prequels don't Deserve to be Flogged Anymore

[KazeAizen]

Ok so the Star Wars threads are starting to make their rounds on The Escapist because of that new trailer for The Force Awakens and one of the only things I could think of is what is going to happen when the movie is finally released? I for one don't think its going to be anything too special and J.J. is going to make the wrong decision of making a fan film instead of a true sequel. Am I still excited? Yes because its Star Wars and how could I not be?

However if the movie just turns out to be good I do not look forward to what will inevitably happen next and that is the continued flogging of George Lucas and the prequel trilogy. George doesn't deserve it and those movies don't deserve it anymore. They've made the rounds for the past decade and enough is enough. I don't see why these movies are raked over the coals and are seen to have nothing of value within them when honestly some of the stuff from the original trilogy doesn't hold up all that well either (have you gone back and watched that fight between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader?). So do you think we can just not do that when the time comes next year or does George and his creations deserve to be reminded again how "bad" the prequels were?

 

[Evonisia]

Once it comes out, the older Star Wars fanbase will declare it to be not as good as the original films, further pushing themselves into the delusion that Episode IV and VI were some kind of masterpieces rather than just the culture changing films that they were.

I would argue that the prequels never deserved the punishment they got, but I completely understand why they got the flogging they did. Much like how I am never going to stop pissing on Halo 4, I will never ask that the Star Wars fans stop acting as if the prequels acted as if the old films desperately needed extra nonsensical plots. I mean, the writing was somewhat crap for the most part, but let's not even pretend that Star Wars was about the writing.

 

[Barbas]

I don't think they do either. I no longer cringe (as much) in embarrassment at things like the 'Jedi Rocks' scene from Episode VI or the acting from other episodes, I laugh instead. They're entertaining, just not in the way I think Lucas expected them to be. His various foibles and fumbles over the years don't erase the efforts and pains he and others went to in order to create the Star Wars universe, which I cherish to this day.

Whether or not the new film suffers from things like excessive lens-flare or an over-reliance on CGI over practical effects or even bad acting and writing, I'm looking forward to it and it's not going to somehow reach into my memories and ruin what I remember loving about watching those incredible films for the first time.


That video above is still ridiculous and funny to me. It's not mean-spirited or hateful in the slightest, it's just poking fun at some of Lucas's more bewildering indulgences when it came to editing and special effects. It seems cruel to me that people still take a cruel amount of glee in denigrating George Lucas. I'm thankful for the work he's done over the years and the priceless memories he's given me. I am so excited to see the new film. Just to end on a high note:

[HEADING=2]BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, BUDDUHH-BUUUUUM, BADDA BUM BA-BAAAAAAAAAAH BUUUM...[/HEADING]​

 

[KazeAizen]

I'll put my money on the film being worse than the prequels, I'll never forgive JJ for Star Trek 2, defaming one of the best sci fi films ever released for batshit insane liberal propaganda.

I was with you until your last two words. I knew this would be a powder keg as it was but why did you have to bring political buzz words here?

 

[crazygameguy4ever]

the trailer looks like a badly fan made trailer on youtube lol.. i bet the film will be just as bad as the Star wars prequels were

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

I'll put my money on the film being worse than the prequels, I'll never forgive JJ for Star Trek 2, defaming one of the best sci fi films ever released for batshit insane liberal propaganda.

Uh yeah, I'm with KazeAizen; I can accuse Star Trek: ID of being lots of things (mainly shit) but I must be missing something 'cos propaganda it ain't, unless you count it being a condemnation of lens flare or something.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Yes they do. They are laughable, incompetent pieces of trash and deserved to be panned for all of eternity.

Their example must always be remembered so that it would never be repeated again.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it".

have you gone back and watched that fight between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader?

Yes, and it's as perfect as it always been. There's much more going on there then just a fight, and the actual "fight" is not what's important or pivotal.

Or are you implying that it's not "cool" and not excretes shit cgi and forced choreography like the prequels fights? If so you are officially banned from ever watching, talking or even mentioning Star Wars.

It's an incredible piece of narrative and a well played dramatic scene, but I've seen more engaging sword fights at school plays. All is forgiven of course because Sir Alec was an elderly man.

 

[Elfgore]

I'm that awkward guy in the room who really enjoys the prequel movies. I think some of the hate they receive is warranted, but not at the level they receive it. But yeah, I usually have to hold my tongue when I see Star Wars threads. The amount of people that practically say "The prequels are objectively bad movies" hurts.

Next to Sword Art Online, it's the only other series I enjoy that I think gets too much hate.

 

[Dizchu]

The chances of the new Star Wars films being worse than the prequels are very slim. It doesn't matter how bad you think the writers/directors for the upcoming films are, they're at least part of a collaborative effort unlike Lucas' dictator-style directing.

Personally, I think that The Force Awakens will either be superb (think 80-90% on Rotten Tomoatoes) or moderately good (in the 60% range). Chances are it'll at least be competent, and even if it's clunky as hell with weird choices it will still be at least in the same tier of quality as the first Hobbit film, for example.

I like the Star Wars universe and the chance for a film to finally get over all that Anakin/Darth Vader stuff sounds worth checking out to me.

 

[KazeAizen]

Yes they do. They are laughable, incompetent pieces of trash and deserved to be panned for all of eternity.

Their example must always be remembered so that it would never be repeated again.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it".

have you gone back and watched that fight between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader?

Yes, and it's as perfect as it always been. There's much more going on there then just a fight, and the actual "fight" is not what's important or pivotal.

Or are you implying that it's not "cool" and not excretes shit cgi and forced choreography like the prequels fights? If so you are officially banned from ever watching, talking or even mentioning Star Wars.

I know there is much more going on there. I'm not stupid. I'm just saying some things from that movie don't hold up that the prequels, given time, modern stunt choreography, and effects, were able to do much better. Also I'm getting the vibe you despise CGI from this, or at least the prequels CGI which save for episode I is actually pretty dang good over all.

Also that very last statement of yours is the kind of elitist attitude I can't stand from any fandom whatsoever.

 

[KazeAizen]

The chances of the new Star Wars films being worse than the prequels are very slim. It doesn't matter how bad you think the writers/directors for the upcoming films are, they're at least part of a collaborative effort unlike Lucas' dictator-style directing.

Personally, I think that The Force Awakens will either be superb (think 80-90% on Rotten Tomoatoes) or moderately good (in the 60% range). Chances are it'll at least be competent, and even if it's clunky as hell with weird choices it will still be at least in the same tier of quality as the first Hobbit film, for example.

I like the Star Wars universe and the chance for a film to finally get over all that Anakin/Darth Vader stuff sounds worth checking out to me.

lol. Then I guess Revenge of the Sith is classified as superb because as a critical score its apparently sitting at a comfortable 80%. Though of course the audience score is much lower either because of legitimate concerns or fanboy whining or both. As for my personal tastes Episode 3 is the best mostly because of something I like to call "The Winter Soldier effect" in that even though its a good movie in its own right it gets elevated even more because everything else has helped set the stage for it which makes it even more awesome.

Rambling, joking, and personal tastes aside though I do hope this film is good. My biggest concern is JJ focusing too much on the original cast and not giving the new guys the time to shine. Still it looks like it will keep the tradition of at least being a good looking movie. None of the Star Wars films really look bad and the worlds always look awesome. Even if Episode I's CGI is the most visibly dated of the prequels.

 

[Dizchu]

lol. Then I guess Revenge of the Sith is classified as superb because as a critical score its apparently sitting at a comfortable 80%. Though of course the audience score is much lower either because of legitimate concerns or fanboy whining or both. As for my personal tastes Episode 3 is the best mostly because of something I like to call "The Winter Soldier effect" in that even though its a good movie in its own right it gets elevated even more because everything else has helped set the stage for it which makes it even more awesome.

I actually have no idea how that film has an 80% score (though I'll be the first to admit that Rotten Tomatoes isn't he best indication of quality). I think that apart from some cool setpieces it's a mess. The characterisation in the prequels is terrible (though the actors make the best with what little they're given, for the most part).

As controversial as Star Trek 09 was, at least it had character moments in it, ya know? Even if it was mostly fanservice.

Even if Episode I's CGI is the most visibly dated of the prequels.

I actually think in terms of visuals, The Phantom Menace looked the best because it relied mostly on real sets, props and practical effects. The actual CGI wasn't as good as the following films but it wasn't as dense and overwhelming either. From the snippets in the teaser, it looks like Episode VII will have a similar approach (which is, not relying on blue-screened sets for most of the film).

 

[KazeAizen]

I actually have no idea how that film has an 80% score (though I'll be the first to admit that Rotten Tomatoes isn't he best indication of quality). I think that apart from some cool setpieces it's a mess. The characterisation in the prequels is terrible (though the actors make the best with what little they're given, for the most part).

As controversial as Star Trek 09 was, at least it had character moments in it, ya know? Even if it was mostly fanservice.



I actually think in terms of visuals, The Phantom Menace looked the best because it relied mostly on real sets, props and practical effects. The actual CGI wasn't as good as the following films but it wasn't as dense and overwhelming either. From the snippets in the teaser, it looks like Episode VII will have a similar approach (which is, not relying on blue-screened sets for most of the film).

I'd have to disagree with you on that. The dialogue isn't great. In fact I will admit some of it is just plain awful but as for characterization its not bad. Heck The Clone Wars animated series actually elevates it a bit in my eyes.

You see I don't have this immediate aversion to CGI that a lot of people seem to have. Mostly because I'm at a school that is basically training the next generation of CGI effects artists and I've seen what goes into the stuff. What I think people truly hate is not CGI but bad looking CGI and a ton of it. Again save for Episode I none of the prequels have bad looking CGI and it actually does have a unique feel to it. It feels very "Star Warsy" and not generic sci fi if that makes any sense at all.

Still it is sad to me that CGI has such a bad stigma surrounding it in regards to these movies that JJ makes it a point to make sure we know he is using a lot more practical effects in a naked bid to mollify fanboys. I mean as nice as that is you can't say that the X-wings in that trailer look worse than the OT X-wings.

 

[Mahorfeus]

The prequels were fine, which is to say that they could not possibly live up the expectations of the saga's ravenous (and at times, unreasonable) fanbase. By that point Lucas had already "ruined" the original movies for some fans, which might have already jaded them by the time the prequels started to come out. I'd say JJ is in a very similar position here, being at the helm of the movie that many thought would not (or should not) exist. On top of that, he already has a pedigree with the other Star franchise, which he supposedly "ruined."

All that being said, I really don't think this movie needed to exist, though I am excited about it anyway, since Star Wars is very near and dear to me. I think it is in good hands, though I do not exactly expect it to blow me out of the water. With my expectations being (perhaps depressingly) low, I will most likely enjoy the movie as I did the others.

 

[Dizchu]

Still it is sad to me that CGI has such a bad stigma surrounding it in regards to these movies that JJ makes it a point to make sure we know he is using a lot more practical effects in a naked bid to mollify fanboys. I mean as nice as that is you can't say that the X-wings in that trailer look worse than the OT X-wings.

Ohh I agree that CGI gets a lot of unnecessary hate (even though it takes a lot of hard work and talent to achieve). But if you're filming a live-action film and most of it is CGI... it comes off as far too artificial. Avatar (kinda) averted this just because the design work was so good but even then, why have human actors? Limited use of CGI (such as in Jurassic Park) actually makes the CGI work look stronger because they blend in with the physical objects that were actually filmed. This is something the Lord of the Rings trilogy did exceedingly well.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I veel flog ze prequels and ze prequels veel like it.
And if ze trailer is anyzing to go by, JJ veel join ze prequels.

 

[Vivi22]

George doesn't deserve it and those movies don't deserve it anymore. They've made the rounds for the past decade and enough is enough. I don't see why these movies are raked over the coals and are seen to have nothing of value within them when honestly some of the stuff from the original trilogy doesn't hold up all that well either (have you gone back and watched that fight between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader?).

If the stuff that was wrong with the prequels came down to choreography then you might actually have a point. But no, bad movies are bad movies and they, and the people that made them deserve to be raked over the coals for them for the rest of their lives. After all, they made them. Should we all just collectively forget that George Lucas made some of the worst movies of the last 15 years? Movies which almost universally have no redeeming qualities whatsoever (with the sole exception being, ironically, Phantom Menace having a much better use of CGI combined with practical effects than the two movies that followed)? Of course we shouldn't just forget, and of course the people responsible shouldn't just get a pass for making shitty films.

Compared to what's wrong with the prequels, an American movie from 1977 featuring a fight between two actors that didn't know squat about fighting with a sword doesn't even compare. It doesn't even come close in fact.