The Problem with Piracy...

[hermes]

when it comes to competition, people have no reason to be altruistic.

Competition? I thought we were talking against piracy, not a soccer match.

Piracy does indeed harm developers, but the appeal to a person's better nature is not compelling. Anonymous acts such as pirating are much more comfortable, and thus much more ubiquitous, than regular stealing.

There is a reason why it is illegal, instead of just "frowned at". In society, you always have to "sacrificing one's interests", because the idea that everybody follows its own interests usually ends up with people stepping over everybody else just for its sake...

 

[Felated Show Pony]

Piracy deals with competition because it is the chosen alternative to selling games, which is a competition between developers.

And society itself is creates these problems. It is an imperfect system, but it's what we've got.

 

[Stalk3rchief]

All I know is, I'm poor and can't afford anything, least of all a new game. So, I've become pretty adept at pirating them instead.
It's just a logical choice in my eyes.

 

[NeutralMunchHotel]

Ok. now you can see that we're not trying to justify stealing, only explain why people do steal.

Exactly. I've not actually said (or thought) this, but this is absolutely what I'm talking about. Thanks for putting this into works; making it more coherant than I have maybe made it before.

 

[Felated Show Pony]

Good point. going back to the anonymity thing, the internet is a perfect example of what society would be like if people maintained a sense of individual identity. Society forces what no one would logically choose, for society as a whole's own benefit.

 

[tofulove]

why does fairness matter? Gilbert isn't arguing morality, just stone cold logic.

hes not using logic, hes making a copout to justify breaking the law. he has yet to use any logical explanation other than i don't want to work for it. and if not worth the price than he shouldn't get it. if you see a tv for sale, but you don't think its worth the price the store is selling it for, is it than ok to steel the tv. that's the logic hes using.

Only, I have used a logical explanation. A very logical one, and I have said it numerous times already, but I'll say it again: I don't want to effectively throw away my money. There's way more to it than that, but there're my thoughts in a nutshell. Take them or leave them, but it's how I see things.

ok ok i don't want to work. yes its logical, you a lazy kid who has no moral compass who feels things should be handed to him cause of a lack of work ethic. and who doesn't see the bigger picture and how his actions are affecting others. grats we all get it, its logical behind your decision making. thank you for making pc games less available to me, thank you for rising the prices of games for me cause im not a thief thank you and all people who think like you for hurting people like me who make a honest living. that's my view point, i hope you accept it like you expected me to accept your bs.

 

[NeutralMunchHotel]

ok ok i don't want to work. yes its logical, you a lazy kid who has no moral compass who feels things should be handed to him cause of a lack of work ethic. and who doesn't see the bigger picture and how his actions are affecting others. grats we all get it, its logical behind your decision making. thank you for making pc games less available to me, thank you for rising the prices of games for me cause im not a thief thank you and all people who think like you for hurting people like me who make a honest living. that's my view point, i hope you accept it like you expected me to accept your bs.

I fear you've blown this way out of proportion, but I thank you for giving it a go.

 

[hermes]

Piracy deals with competition because it is the chosen alternative to selling games, which is a competition between developers.

No, it is not. Competition implies a relation between two parties in which they "compete" to gain customers. Activision's Call of Duty may compete with Microsoft's Halo ODST for the market of the FPS this holiday season. You don't compete against any of them... or anything in wheter case (as you piracing one game ("harming" one side) doesn't mean you are supporting the other)

 

[Felated Show Pony]

Thank You for putting it clearly.
I would say that your last post is a perfect example of why this debate is so heated. While some try to explain the nature of stealing, you and others choose to ignore the problem in favor of moral high-horsery. I'M NOT A PIRTATE, and for the most part neither is Gilbert. but we understand why your arguments aren't compelling in a modern, internet-based society.

 

[tofulove]

ok ok i don't want to work. yes its logical, you a lazy kid who has no moral compass who feels things should be handed to him cause of a lack of work ethic. and who doesn't see the bigger picture and how his actions are affecting others. grats we all get it, its logical behind your decision making. thank you for making pc games less available to me, thank you for rising the prices of games for me cause im not a thief thank you and all people who think like you for hurting people like me who make a honest living. that's my view point, i hope you accept it like you expected me to accept your bs.

I fear you've blown this way out of proportion, but I thank you for giving it a go.

i have not. people like you discuss me to the core, its ok to steel, from people who work, and pass on the cost to other people who do not steel, your a prime example of whats wrong with society today, lack of respect and moral compass.

 

[Felated Show Pony]

The point is not that pirates compete, but that it makes sense to avoid the competition when the prize is available without cost. Competition has a definite cost (in this case money).

 

[tofulove]

Thank You for putting it clearly.
I would say that your last post is a perfect example of why this debate is so heated. While some try to explain the nature of stealing, you and others choose to ignore the problem in favor of moral high-horsery. I'M NOT A PIRTATE, and for the most part neither is Gilbert. but we understand why your arguments aren't compelling in a modern, internet-based society.

standing up for what is right is not a high horse. its doing the right thing,

in the mater of fashion move with the current, in a matter of morals, stand like a rock.

 

[Felated Show Pony]

morals are subjective, and based in society.
morals change, just like fashions.

society is not a perfect system, and you have given no compelling reason for us to follow it, you just assumed that everyone should.

 

[nyath]

The thing with piracy is that you can't get disappointed when the game or movie doesn't turn out the way you thought it would (and you would've otherwise "waisted" 60 bucks or so). But one thing bugs me though, maybe you guys can answer..

A lot of games for the PC get badly ported, released way later or not released at all. Why doesn't this happen for the Wii and Xbox360 aswell, since (from what i've heard) it isn't that hard to get illegal copy's to run on those either. (I personaly don't have neither of those so maybe i'm wrong, but i heard that you don't even need a chip anymore to play illegal copy's on a wii) only the PC gets all the "punishment" from the piracy... why? I like to play with a mouse and keyboard

My guess is that if the game is well anticipated or gets a good review, people will buy it wether it is on the PS3, Xbox, Wii or PC for that matter..

 

[Seldon2639]

For every person who says "god, I hate Sony for their DRM", don't blame Sony. They're responding (entirely rationally) to the very problem Gilbert lists. Instead, blame Gilbert. He has prioritized his ability to play a game for free over the usability of the game for all.

If by 'Gilbert' you mean 'everybody like Gilbert' then I wholeheartedly accept your views. And Kant... Emmanuel Kant? We did something about him in my Philosophy class... the reclusive chap with the braces right?

Well, I've forgotten everything I learnt about the Categorical Imperative (I do remember learning it) so maybe I should look into it a bit more...

I meant everyone like you. I wasn't intending to imply that you personally were responsible for all of the piracy in the world.

The premise of the categorical imperative is that people should act in a way which (if everyone were to do it) wouldn't be destructive. Basically, stealing is wrong because if everyone steals it'd destroy the concept of private property. Piracy is wrong because if everyone pirates, independent enterprise would cease, or else the companies would overreact and make it prohibitively difficult to pirate at the expense of the consumers who don't pirate.

Conceptually, a behavior which is "good" for you can still be "bad" if (when applied categorically) it becomes destructive.

 

[tofulove]

morals are subjective, and based in society.

society is not a perfect system, and you have given no compelling reason for us to follow it, you just assumed that everyone should.

nothing is perfect, but i would much rather live in a society of law and order, than in a land of lawlessness were might makes right and you can do what ever you will, and other can do what they will with no regards to you.

 

[hermes]

Only, I have used a logical explanation. A very logical one, and I have said it numerous times already, but I'll say it again: I don't want to effectively throw away my money. There's way more to it than that, but there're my thoughts in a nutshell. Take them or leave them, but it's how I see things.

Ok then, fair enough. You want the cake and eat it too.
It doesn't work that way, and I am pretty sure we can go around with that philosophy in mind... that is, until people that actually worked for it start don't wanting to effectively throw away their work.
Say that you have little money to spend and a lousy buying criteria that makes deciding hard, but don't give me that so-many-options-so-little-money excuse.

 

[Felated Show Pony]

And you have every right to think that.

I would say that society domineers against individuals for the sake of stability, and that there can be no just system without primary and complete freedom for the individual. Aka, an end to coercive government.

we both have the right to our opinions, but like i said, you can't convince people of your ideas by being morally outraged at them.

The last part is the entire point of this discussion

 

[tofulove]

And you have every right to think that.

I would say that society domineers against individuals for the sake of stability, and that there can be no just system without primary and complete freedom for the individual. Aka, an end to coercive government.

we both have the right to our opinions, but like i said, you can't convince people of your ideas by being morally outraged at them.

well i agree we all have the rights to our opinions, but we don't have the rights to steel. your freedom ends were another begins. you cant take some ones tv cause you want it. nore can you take a game some one made with out paying for there labor time and risk in making it. just because some thing is not physically tangenibal doesn't mean it has no value.

 

[NeutralMunchHotel]

And you have every right to think that.

I would say that society domineers against individuals for the sake of stability, and that there can be no just system without primary and complete freedom for the individual. Aka, an end to coercive government.

we both have the right to our opinions, but like i said, you can't convince people of your ideas by being morally outraged at them.

well i agree we all have the rights to our opinions, but we don't have the rights to steel. your freedom ends were another begins. you cant take some ones tv cause you want it. nore can you take a game some one made with out paying for there labor time and risk in making it. just because some thing is not physically tangenibal doesn't mean it has no value.

Here, you are right.

And I have never said that I have a 'right' to steal. It is just something that I can't bring myself not to do. Call me weak, because I probably am, but again I can't bring myself to effectively throw money away. Because, viewed from a certain angle, that's what it is.