The Problem with Piracy...

[Calgetorix]

I really see no point discussing this. You've said it's not a need. Fine.
Then there's no logical reason for you to have the game.
Trying to justify piracy by not having enough money as a logical reason just doesn't make sense.
Only greed justifies pirating a game (or perhaps to test it before buying, but when are you just testing a game or actually playing it but just getting tired of it?).

let the big kids talk this out honey, the statement you just made shows you haven't been paying attention.

I've followed this thread from page 1. No reason to be condescending.

actually, the argument against what you're saying has already been made, if you go back and read it. No point in bringing it back up.

I really haven't seen any other argument other than: "I FEEL the only way I can play a game is by pirating it" (paraphrased somewhat, but that's basically what it boils down to). You can't really argue against that because that's how he feels about it.

What I said is there is no reason to pirate stuff. Either you buy it or you don't get to play the game. It's not a necessity. If you can't go out with friends AND buy that game, then prioritise. Why should the companies "pay" for your entertainment?

This discussion doesn't really add much new stuff. People are just repeating themselves.

 

[tofulove]

Unless I'm mistaken, you've answered the question of 'what is the point of this thread'. To find out what other people think, and to see if people agree or disagree with me. I think it's safe to say that all of those things have been found out over the course of these 5 pages.

Ok, good. Now you know what I think (for what is worth), besides 5 pages of other people thoughts... My job here is done.

Now is up to you wheter you decide to do with what you find out in these 5 pages, if anything at all.

You know what? This whole thing has made me think a little more about when I download things. Chances are I won't stop, (lets hear it again: I can't justify it to myself...) but I'll probably think more. Then, when I'm older, I'll try to pay it back. To charuty, though, God knows they derserve it more that EA and Henry Hatsworth.

your on the rode to recovery, given time and patience maby one day you will stop. intell than im out, sorry the last few of my post got off track and into personal attacks, have a good day.

 

[Felated Show Pony]

sure it does, a huge part of the discussion hes trying to make is about him self, so he him self is up for debate cause he made it so

there is no argument here, you are attacking him as a person, instead of directing your post at the argument. We understand that morality matters a lot to you, and it is fine that you do. but attacking those that do not follow morality is simply hatespeech. not to mention, immoral.

make a valid point, although i wouldn't call it hate speech just being unprofessional in a debate. point taken[/quote]

agreed.

 

[Felated Show Pony]

I really see no point discussing this. You've said it's not a need. Fine.
Then there's no logical reason for you to have the game.
Trying to justify piracy by not having enough money as a logical reason just doesn't make sense.
Only greed justifies pirating a game (or perhaps to test it before buying, but when are you just testing a game or actually playing it but just getting tired of it?).

let the big kids talk this out honey, the statement you just made shows you haven't been paying attention.

I've followed this thread from page 1. No reason to be condescending.

actually, the argument against what you're saying has already been made, if you go back and read it. No point in bringing it back up.

I really haven't seen any other argument other than: "I FEEL the only way I can play a game is by pirating it" (paraphrased somewhat, but that's basically what it boils down to). You can't really argue against that because that's how he feels about it.

What I said is there is no reason to pirate stuff. Either you buy it or you don't get to play the game. It's not a necessity. If you can't go out with friends AND buy that game, then prioritise. Why should the companies "pay" for your entertainment?

This discussion doesn't really add much new stuff. People are just repeating themselves.

True. but then again, you SERIOUSLY need to go read the posts where we addressed that idea. We weren't just ranting.

 

[Altorin]

In most cases, for every pirate, there are several people who have the money to burn, or don't understand the ease of most piracy, or don't have access to the tools required to be a successful pirate (the R4 is actually a little difficult to find these days, and modding your console is a seedy business at the best of times, if you can even manage to find someone who can do it).

I honestly don't pirate games that much... for one, my PC can't handle most games I'd like to play, and two, like I said, console modding/pirating is both a pain and far past my "line". I'll get the occasional old 8/16-bit game, and I do get the occasional movie..

But honestly, I think the "piracy is destroying the world" is quite overblown - yes, the developers are losing some money from piracy, but they're losing way way way more money, on the whole, from the game rental market and the used game market, and that problem is only getting bigger for them, gauntlets are being dropped over the PSPGo. Piracy isn't the big problem.. the huge majority of pirates, if they were unable to get what they wanted via piracy, would change what they wanted to something that they could get via piracy, instead of shelling out money.

They pirate on principle. It's not even about "convenience" or "trying before you buy".. It's about taking some control from retailers. It's saying "I'm taking this, and there's nothing you can do to stop me."

Piracy investigation isn't aimed at the end user. They figure that if they get the suppliers, the "big fish" like PirateBay, that it will cause a hit to piracy in general, but that's not how it works. If they want to destroy piracy, they'd need to take on every single person who does it, because otherwise, someone will get away with it, and do it again. It's like a hydra, they cut off the head, but two smaller heads are waiting just behind it, as two more heads grow from the stump. They'll never stop it, and it would be foolish to try.. they'd waste more money chasing pirates then they'd ever see in returns.. even if they win huge cases against the big fish.. Piracy is a largely non-profit business by its nature (well, it's a 100% profit business if you want to get technical, but there's very little money in it, at least online).. They sue the big companies, win settlements that can never be paid, and waste a lot of money in the process, and get nothing back but some grim satisfaction of a "job well done", as two more hydra heads sprout.

My own personal take on Piracy is pretty much a "no big deal" approach.. I have certain lines that I try not to cross, and I try to be discreet, but I don't think Piracy is as much of a crippling problem as it looks like. The threat of piracy comes from made up numbers and assumptions that may or may not be accurate.

 

[Akai Shizuku]

maybe if games werent so fucking expensive. do you think majority of teenagers have money to throw around? i know i dont
besides, these companies are trying to rip us off the same way we rip them off when we pirate

Quoted for truth.

Whether I'll pay for something I downloaded is directly proportionate to how much I like the end product and how much money I have. If I just have a little saved up, just enough to pay...Screw you. I have plenty of other things I could spend it on.

 

[Boffc47]

Il copy things till I get a job then Il buy back everything i have copyed just to mainly support the artists.

 

[Berethond]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/steal_this_comic.png

XKCD wins yet again.

 

[Teirce]

When I pirate stuff, it's more like renting a PC game. You can't rent them, so I make my own way. If it's good then I buy it. If it's bad then I delete it and move on.

I never pirate things that I know will be worth my money like CoD4/6, or generally if they have good multi-player you can't pirate for the MP so I end up buying it.

Also hate stupid-shit DRM they put into games. Do they really think that will stop us? Like, really? Even I could get past that silly crap in less than a day.

 

[jboking]

maybe if games werent so fucking expensive. do you think majority of teenagers have money to throw around? i know i dont
besides, these companies are trying to rip us off the same way we rip them off when we pirate

You have no clue how much money those companies actually make in profit on each disk do you? It's around $5. They aren't cheating you, they are charging a price that allows them to make a profit, which is the only thing that can justify even entering the market of video games.

Because it's illegal. And it is, but so many people do it, why should you be the one chump who has to pay, especially when money is so tight now?

Because the sucker who works for the game company could use money too. Also, just because a lot of people do something illegal doesn't make it alright.

So, Escapists, my question is this: what is your view on my view?

You share the mentality of numerous others, sadly this mentality is dangerous to the industry. If we are to say this is justified, why would anyone buy games anymore(with the exception of the guy who has to provide the original game to seed of course)? Without the probability of profit, game developers would simply bow out. We would have to stick to strictly indie gaming. Of course, the bungies of our world will continue to make games. However, new IP's might as well be out of the question.

Note:No-one on their high horses, saying how it's me who is ruining the world. Unless you have evidence to back up your claim, I will remove your comment from my reality and substitute my own.

So... when someone tells you something that is close to the truth(people with your mentality, not just you) and don't need evidence to do it, you are going to cover your ears and yell

"Nah nah nah nah nah, I can't hear you! Nah nah nah nah nah."


Disclaimer: none of this was meant to be confrontational, simply informative.

 

[Beartrucci]

I rarely, rarely pirate games, mostly because I don't play games on my computer except for Dawn of War.

I pirate music and get movies off friends, but will buy them if the album or movie was really good.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

Just to put a different angle on things, do we, the gamers demand games that cost $2-3 million to develop?

Would we buy a game for $60, or buy the same game for £30 with lesser graphics and a soundtrack by unknown bands and non celebrity voiceovers?

I'll admit I've pirated things before, but a lot of it does simply come down to price, and the only things I've bought new at release date for full price are the WOW expansions as you get left behind if you don't and they don't tend to go on 'sale' anyway.

It's not an ideal analogy, but I picked up Saint's Row 2 for £5 in the Direct2Drive sale, now I'd considered it before, but £30 isn't a throwaway amount of money, and I wasn't sure how it would run on my PC, and of course you can't take back PC games for a refund.

However, even if it had been £10 I would have gone for it and taken a punt on the game. Surprisingly I'm well below the min specs and it runs really nicely, however many people have had a lot of trouble. (I don't even have a dual core, just a 1.8ghz Sempron.)

Of course, value for money is relative, and I'm sure if I was earning £40,000 a year, I'd be buying a lot of full price games and playing em for a couple of days before they sat on my shelf forever. But as it is, there's a lot of people out there, especially now, who really have to think before they can choose to spend their remaining spare cash on a new game.

To me, the answer is to massively cut dev costs, and make the games more financially appealing to the mass market, I don't think I'd pirate anything at £10/$20 per game, but £50 for something I might only enjoy for a couple of hours, I could get drugs n hookers for that (not that I would)

 

[SenseOfTumour]

maybe if games werent so fucking expensive. do you think majority of teenagers have money to throw around? i know i dont
besides, these companies are trying to rip us off the same way we rip them off when we pirate

You have no clue how much money those companies actually make in profit on each disk do you? It's around $5. They aren't cheating you, they are charging a price that allows them to make a profit, which is the only thing that can justify even entering the market of video games.




Disclaimer: none of this was meant to be confrontational, simply informative.

do you have that the companies only make like 5 bucks? im not doubting you or calling bullshit. i just wanna see

I think sadly they do only make a small percentage on retail sales, although I'd hope they get a bigger cut on digital downloads, what with no need to pay for shipping, middle men, the stores, etc. Again, it's why I think it'd be good to aim to make your games less aimed at being flashy, hi graphics, celeb voiceover, kinda things, and more concentrated on making a solid game.

OF course 'Guitar Hero - College Band from Myspace' doesn't have the same appeal, I admit, but if you're not spending $3 million to make a game, you don't need to make $4 million back to turn a profit.

 

[SpAc3man]

If something is worth my money it will get my money, otherwise it gets put in one of two categories; Either I download it for free because I like it but would not pay for it, OR I dont even bother cos its worthless crap to me. I will almost always test a game out by downloading it first to see if I like it. If I like it enough I will uninstall and delete everything except the .iso file and install from my paid for disk/download from Steam. Also if I have paid for a game in the past that for whatever reason the disk no longer works, I will download it, I paid for it so I should be able to play it

 

[FinalHeart95]

I don't pirate, simply because I always thought of it as stealing. If you pirate, I'm not going to call the cops on you, I won't get mad at you, I might even still be friends with you. I just don't pirate myself.

 

[Flour]

Just to put a different angle on things, do we, the gamers demand games that cost $2-3 million to develop?

Most gamers don't(or didn't). It used to be(is?) a small group, one Microsoft tried to reach with the Xbox. It then became the standard for most publishers to get games with the latest graphics technology, which made the gaming media follow their example and give bad reviews to games that didn't use the latest graphics.

Without this.. graphics race, we wouldn't have the graphics we have today. And that's a good thing because it would have reduced production costs. Right now, a few people spend days creating an area the player is in for maybe 1 minute. Using older technology that same area could be made by 1 person with maybe 2 days work.

 

[Necrofudge]

Well I agree with the idea but after I may or may not have started doing it, I actually felt sad that I've been blowing off my money for the past how ever many years buying games that were available for free. I could have used the money for college (although that probably wouldn't have been done in any scenario)

 

[NeutralMunchHotel]

Note:No-one on their high horses, saying how it's me who is ruining the world. Unless you have evidence to back up your claim, I will remove your comment from my reality and substitute my own.

So... when someone tells you something that is close to the truth(people with your mentality, not just you) and don't need evidence to do it, you are going to cover your ears and yell

"Nah nah nah nah nah, I can't hear you! Nah nah nah nah nah."


Disclaimer: none of this was meant to be confrontational, simply informative.

No, not at all, and perhaps that wasn't the best wording.

I simply meant peple who say 'piracy is wrong' without putting any real thought behind why they think that that is so. You haven't done this, and I respect your point.

 

[Bigsmith]

If any one lives in the Uk and ok with file sharing, googles PPUK (pirate party uk), its who i am voting for.

I do not pirate games, and do not digitaly (is there anyother way) download game for the shear fact of having them. I like the physical side of owning a game.

I am for file sharing and I hope the pirate party gets into power, although their short term ideas are good I just want to know their long term ideas.

 

[Signa]

The thing is, if you know you can get it (game, music, film, anything) for free, with absolutely no negative side effects, then why the hell shouldn't you do it? Because it's illegal. And it is, but so many people do it, why should you be the one chump who has to pay, especially when money is so tight now?

I know my comment is buried by 6 pages of arguing that I'm not even going to read, I'm still going to give you the answer to this question: You owe the people who gave you fun. How much you owe depends on the amount of fun you had, so if you can't justify full price, then get it on sale. Also, if you had a lot of fun, you probably are hoping for a sequel. You pretty much can dash any dreams of a sequel if you only pirate the game.

And don't call people who play fair "chumps." The only way to be a chump is to get ripped off by buying a crappy game. It's OK to try out your Layton games before you buy them to see if they were any good (I certainly did, there's been too many similar games that are piles of crap), but once you see it IS good, and that you like it, you owe the game makers the money to keep owning it. I have an R4 as well, but there are only a handful of games on my card that I can't justify buying. All the rest I bought after I downloaded them and enjoyed them thoroughly. I've even used the downloads to negate shipping time, because when you buy the game online, you have to wait for the game to arrive. That's precious wasted time that no one can justify me waiting for. Same can go for when you had to save up for your games, you could download, then save up. As long as you can play fair, you can enjoy the game and then buy it once you have the money. It's no skin off of anyone's nose.

Also, it's illegal to exceed the speed limit, but that doesn't stop motorists from going 5 or so over. Legality isn't a reason. It might keep you from doing some really awful illegal stuff, but it's not going to stop pirates on the internet, ever. I'd be shocked if you find me a person who quit cold-turkey when they found that the downloads they made were infringing on copyright, AND deleted all the files they downloaded because they didn't own them legally.