The Problem With Twilight

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

That actually makes a lot of sense I never really thought of Twilight in that way or in any way becuase of my complete and utter hate for it. Although because it it completely nullifies the argument of only women being oversexed in movies. I mean their tops disappear but they can still keep their trousers. They should really give then name of the company that makes those trousers to the Hulk and use that technology in making T-Shirts. The Big overgrown dogs and the Hulk would save a fortune. Although it would probably put the local economy in jeopardy since they won't be making enough money through clothing sales.

Also this is what I have a problem with Twlight as well.

Spoiler

One thing I don't like about some of the fans is that they hold in regard as a great work of literature. Fair enough if you do actually like it but it is by no stretch of the imagination a great work of literature. I for one hate Tom Sawyer but can admit that it is a good book. I may not like Madonna but I can still admit she has appeal the same with someone not liking Iron Maiden or Nirvana. They have made actual contributions to their genre even inventing one and helping make another mainstream so you can't really say that they are shit. While Twilight on the other hand has popularised pussy vampires who care about the living. You don't care about your food you eat it.

I went into Easons and saw that all the top 10 were vampire books and top 4 being Twilight. While I suppose it is good that they are putting money into it basically elimating any slim chance the book shops have of closing it is a bit sickening seeing the other crap they buy which is all the same thign with a slight different slant. I know this can follow through with a lot things in the same genre but the fact that they were all novels to do with romantic vampires sickened me a little.

 

[Zeromaeus]

Where have I heard that before? Oh, right - the Middle Ages.

Wow, I never thought you're that old!

Why do you think he's offended by vampires being portrayed badly/incorrectly in the media? Hmmm?

 

[Fearzone]

Social attitudes around sexual promiscuity and restraint do not progress in one direction but rather cycle back and forth throughout history. Just look at the Romans.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

The Problem With Twilight

It's more than just bad moviemaking.

Read Full Article

Silly Bob! The Middle ages didn't have wars fought over a single woman. That is the stone age we are talking about! Hit girl with club and she is yours to drag to your cave! Get your history right.

Go read the Iliad.

Ok, so the Greeks did it, that is still hundreds of years before A.D. or CE or what ever they call it now

 

[dudeman0001]

I'm not sure why the whole "virgin" thing is considered so attractive. Personally, I think the idea of a female being more experienced, and independant is much more appealing. I also think that Bella's character would've been much cooler if she were also a vampire, and since this would've made the plot go in a COMPLETELY different direction, not to mention Bella wouldn't be completely helplessly throughout the entirety of the films, and vampires were also given weaknesses maybe the movies would be....watchable.

...but still, probably not.

 

[sleepykid]

What I find much more terrifying is that you use words like "retro" and "cultural backsliding" as a critique for a moral system. I know you've read some of CS Lewis, so I'll borrow a descriptive term from him: "Chronological snobbery". It's even more surprising coming from a gamer, of all people. I can only imagine how chewed out you'd get if you made a similar claim about video games here.

On topic: I was wondering where all the charges of abstinence propaganda came from. Even I'm not cynical enough to think that, by the mere fact two love interests didn't screw each other upon making eye contact, one would think it was a wholesale lecture. Now I know you've put waaaay more thought into this than Stephanie Meyer probably did. Edward's probably reluctant to have sex because maybe cross-species babies won't work out very well, or it might make Bella into a vampire, or other complications. Haven't read the books, just speculation on my part. As for why he doesn't want to make Bella into a vampire, it's probably because of the basic, if not very well-explained reason of "people shouldn't be monsters". No matter how many additional hit dice you get. Maybe it's just assumed that you don't want to be a vampire because, well, they're the bad guys and whatnot.

Also I wouldn't worry too much about the messages in a movie. As a culture I think we're really good at not absorbing messages, for better or for worse. Just like some above me have said, hyper-violent FPS' don't make us into crazed gun-toting killers, just like Twilight won't produce romantically-stunted stalker victims.

 

[Bloodstain]

MovieBob, after reading this, I've got to say...I love you.

Twilight actually harms teenage girls.
I once ranted about it, some said I "just don't get it" or "don't know anything about good literature" (something that made me cringe), others argued that Twilight shows how most girls imagine being in love.
If most girls imagine it being like that, I'm afraid I have to kill myself, for this world being to cruel to me.

 

[Chrinik]

You should read the german titles to these movies and books...instead of just keeping it english (apocalypse now), or translating them outright, (Tränen der Sonne/Tears of the sun), or mix maxing it with a german title with english title as subtext or vice versa, they completely invented new titles for them.
And the worst part about them, they always play around with a wordjoke revolving the german words for until (bis) and bite (biss) by having a phrase like: "Bis zum Morgengrauen" (Until Dawn) and add a "(s)" after the first word...
It is so fucking stupid that I, at first thought these are 2 completely different things, because the title Twilight actually never apears...and the titular "bite", as said by MovieBob, NEVER HAPPENS ANYWAY!!!

And no, I have never seen them.

 

[Mysnomer]

The only concern I can see over the views you are presenting, and specifically over the suggestion that this movie might define or influence behavior in young women, is that it seems to be the same error that conventional critics and the media in general makes constantly toward the movies and games so prevalent in our gamer/nerd culture. Suggesting that the women who enjoy Twilight will be inclined to develop anti-feminist, submissive and/or powerless roles against stalker/domineering males sounds very close (in my mind) the popular assertion that if I love to play Modern Warfare 2 then I must either be a gun nut, prone to violence in real life, or otherwise am easily influenced in some way for the worse. We know the people who make such assertions about our gamer culture are full of it, because we know that we, as people, are not so shallow, desperate for guidance and malleable that playing a violent game or watching a violent movie will otherwise change our very nature as people....so why are we assuming that the average Twilight fan is so gullible?

I'll get to the quote later, but I want to make sure you keep this in mind, it's thought provoking stuff.

While at first I was thinking, Woah, yeah, what is up with this sick stuff?! Then I thought back, about two, three years ago, when I read the first book, and I liked it. Why? Because it seemed to be a reversal of the usual "emo Vampire" trend, which was vampires who cursed their immortality, but all the Cullens seemed to revel in their enhanced abilities (driving too fast, playing super-human baseball). And, from my viewpoint, Edwards obsession seemed to be chivalrous and romantic (I've been told I tend to be overly romantic, but whatevs). Looking back, and combined with the above quote, I've decided that my interpretation is more accurate than Bob's. Why? Because he takes it too seriously. Essentially, we're looking at two sides of the same coin, Chivalry is the lighter, more romantic side of Middle Ages gender beliefs, while Bob's interpretation is the darker side. Granted, Bob's interpretation is what happened historically, but we're talking about literature, which is an idealization. But, in the end, it doesn't matter who you side with, because it will not detrimentally affect those who experience it, relatively speaking (certainly, it's not the most wholesome media to consume, but it's effect is nothing that will interfere with real world function because it is clearly in the realm of fantasy).

Of course, then I read the second book, and Edward went exactly where I hoped he wouldn't go, and it was all downhill from there. So, in the end, yes, these books are trash because they're bad and derivative fiction. However, their insidious social message is one that must be fished for, and is unlikely truly alter or shape the beliefs of it's readers. Because, even though Bob is concerned that people are taking in media that could have this message, it is unlikely that is the message they will take from it. I'm afraid your article will sound like fear mongering because you express too much concern that this will actually be the message received by people.

EDIT: I think that the enthusiasm for bashing Twilight has over-ridden the good sense of people and they can't have a balanced view, all the see are all the ways in which it must be a negative, ill-intentioned, or somehow bad for reading. Everybody is treating it like the anti-christ given form. It's bad fiction, and it will pass. In hindsight, people won't even notice it, it'll be a mote in the eyes of history.

 

[Ridergurl10]

Snippy Snip

That is the biggest problem with Belle... She is the most stereotypical damsel in distress ever to be placed in a piece of fiction. Heck Louis Lane was more independent and was a much stronger character. She's written in an attempt to pass her off as deep or complex but she is in every way a damsel in distress. This could have worked though if she had gotten stronger. I mean, the problem with the character is that she really doesn't progress. She stays the same whiny, dependent ***** all the way through the series. She has moments here and there where she takes a couple independent actions but they are to few and far between to give her any character.

Now I could accept her being naive and dependent in the first movie, she's new to all this and not sure whats going on and with this discovery of Edward being a vampire along with there being other vampires in the area... Yeah, she'll be confused and dependent on the first friendly Vampire she comes across.

However in the second movie... This is where she should start becoming more self-dependant and starting to be able to look after her self. When Edward leaves, she should have been mournful yes, sure, her boyfriends just done a runner. However now he's gone she should be learning to take care of her self and snap her self out of her vulnerable state.
She doesn't, instead she tries killing her self a good amount of times and then finds another big muscular male to take care of her. This doesn't show progression, she just seems more of a parasite, way too dependent on the others.

Then she stays this way through the rest of the books... She doesn't develop... Okay, refusing to have the abortion despite it killing her shows an amount of strength in the character but it's way too late in the series for it to amount to anything.

I agree with you! Bella does note grow as a charactor at all, which is just another sign of how bad and incompetant an author Stephanie Meyers is. But what scares me about this is:

1) That young girls today think these books are incredible. And while I'm happy that people are reading, it is scary that this crap is being considered good
2) The kind of person Bella encourages the girls who are reading this to be. A wimpy whiner who sits around and lets others do all the work.

I still remember all of the books I read when I was at this age, and they really had a profound influence on me as a person today. Luckily I was reading books about girls who worked hard to get sucess, and yeah had some romance along the way, but were equal partners in the romance. Overall I just cannot express enough how much I dislike this series. Poorly written books with terrible messages.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

You've summed up very well what's so, so wrong with these books and films. Thank you.

It's a shame most young girls interested in Twilight won't read this or, worse, will claim that you "don't get it" as they defend their beloved fandom.

No, I don't get it. I don't get how one of the most boring movies I've ever seen in my life could become so popular. I don't get how something that's as well written as Half Life 2 fan fiction [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHxyZaZlaOs] can have so many dedicated followers. I don't get how there can be an entire series of poorly written books could sell millions of copies. There is no reason these should be this popular. There is no reason why these should make this much money. I get sick of all the hate threads on the forum and the Twilight haters are almost as annoying as the fans, but it just confuses me how this Mormon teen abstinence porn could even get off the ground, nonetheless have legions of dedicated fans who will buy literally anything with Twilight on it.

 

[Sovvolf]

Snip

With any luck, the message will go over the heads of most fans of the books. They may be ignorant to the message and it may not cause any harm. These things can happen a lot with books. Heck my brothers read Watchmen thousands of times and he still hasn't got the message of the comic book. Also with any luck, most of the fans of the series will have just watched the movie and are only watching it out of lust for Robert Patterson or the fellow who plays Jacob... Missing the message entirely. We can only hope for that.

That or we may have a generation of weak minded, submissive and dependent women.

 

[Talvrae]

You should read the german titles to these movies and books...instead of just keeping it english (apocalypse now), or translating them outright, (Tränen der Sonne/Tears of the sun), or mix maxing it with a german title with english title as subtext or vice versa, they completely invented new titles for them.
And the worst part about them, they always play around with a wordjoke revolving the german words for until (bis) and bite (biss) by having a phrase like: "Bis zum Morgengrauen" (Until Dawn) and add a "(s)" after the first word...
It is so fucking stupid that I, at first thought these are 2 completely different things, because the title Twilight actually never apears...and the titular "bite", as said by MovieBob, NEVER HAPPENS ANYWAY!!!

And no, I have never seen them.

They did something similar in French
Twilight became: Fascination
New Moon Became: Tentation
Eclipse became: Hesitation...
dont think it need translation... and it really don't make sense lol

 

[RN7]

I've always found the thought process behind the whole "female's virginity is sacred and must contained...etc." Originally I believed it to be similiar to why I see something such as Lolicon disturbing/disgusting, but then I realized that the former though pattern has less merit. The main reason behind this is, following this logic, females are never to have sex. Ever. Males are free to do...well whatever they want. This however would leave males to have no one...but other males and the human race as a whole a dying breed.

In short, Stephanie Meyers(correct my spelling if I'm wrong) is one coy, little *****.

 

[Falseprophet]

I still say this is a big double standard and overreaction. Women read all kinds of shitty romantic stuff. So what if one of them happens to have vampires and abstinence allegory? Get over it. It wasn't written for you.

This is like a woman complaining that porn is sending the wrong message.

comparing this to the influence of violent media is inaccurate. consider instead how many male geeks have plunged headlong into doomed, unhealthy relationships with clearly damaged goods since Annie Hall introduced the concept of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl. how many times have young male geeks done reenactments of The Offspring's "Self Esteem" in pursuit of a wholly fictional ideal mate archetype? i've seen it more than a few times, and now socially awkward females have their own mentally unstable fictional ideal who happens to have all the qualities of an abusive douchebag to pursue. wheee!

Much as I don't disagree with Bob's analysis, I agree with you two about the conclusion. It seems a lot of adults--even very intelligent, educated people with very tolerant views who support free expression--have a problem with children reading trash. Adults are allowed to read all the trashy novels they want, but somehow, kids are unable to distinguish between fantasy and reality and every crappy novel they read is actually a brainwashing manual filling the helpless empty vessels of their minds with evil programming. It seems to go double for girls as well. I read a lot of trashy fiction as a kid. I also watched a lot of 80s action movies where might makes right and evil needs to be fought by one or two dedicated men armed to the teeth with no restraints, because society's institutions only empower criminals and terrorists, and I still enjoy these films even though my social and political views have turned out almost completely opposite.

I think it's rather unfair to one-sidedly condemn Twilight for warping young girls' minds while Judd Apatow movies (and his imitators) have been teaching slovenly, socially awkward slacker males that they deserve to end up with an attractive, loving girlfriend without having to significantly better themselves.

Twilight is trash. Four or five years after the last movie comes out, no one's going to care anymore.

 

[BlueInkAlchemist]

No, I don't get it. I don't get how one of the most boring movies I've ever seen in my life could become so popular. I don't get how something that's as well written as Half Life 2 fan fiction [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHxyZaZlaOs] can have so many dedicated followers. I don't get how there can be an entire series of poorly written books could sell millions of copies. There is no reason these should be this popular. There is no reason why these should make this much money. I get sick of all the hate threads on the forum and the Twilight haters are almost as annoying as the fans, but it just confuses me how this Mormon teen abstinence porn could even get off the ground, nonetheless have legions of dedicated fans who will buy literally anything with Twilight on it.

I don't get it either. You're not alone. I'm inclined to think that some of the people perpetuating the fandom have never read the books, just a summary on Wikipedia or something, and have filled in the blanks with their own imaginations.

 

[TOGSolid]

Great article Bob! It's always awesome to have more ammo to load into my awesome Anti-Twilight revolver.

Personally, when I first heard the plot of the books, I was WAY more creeped out by the fact that the main character is a pedophile. Then I heard about the other pedophillic occurrences and I really have to wonder what sort of weird shit Meyer is secretly into.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

I don't get it either. You're not alone. I'm inclined to think that some of the people perpetuating the fandom have never read the books, just a summary on Wikipedia or something, and have filled in the blanks with their own imaginations.

The thing is... even the summary isn't interesting. I'll be honest, I haven't read the books because I fear that if I'm caught in public with a Twilight book that I'll be a disappointment to my parents but I have heard it been summarized many times... and even the summaries aren't interesting. I saw the first 45 minutes of the first movie twice because of a very long story but the entire time was torture. It was seriously some of the worst acting, writing, and special effects I've ever seen in my life.

Twilight is trash. Four or five years after the last movie comes out, no one's going to care anymore.

I really wish I could agree with this, but this isn't the same as Harry Potter or something like that. People are following this religiously and it's insanely popular. Twilight, the book, came out in 2005 and five years later look at it. They sell Twilight dildos! People are actually taking the message to heart.

 

[Dr. Dan Challis]

Bob?s argument seems to be predicated on the idea that teenage girls are by and large unable to distinguish fantasy from reality. The conclusion that the Twilight series is creating an entire generation of obsequious doormats is little different from the tired, and oft debunked, position that GTA IV or MW2 are training a generation of boys to be psychopathic killers. There?s no evidence for the latter, so the former argument is completely without merit. I?m kind of surprised that someone who self identifies with geek culture would even use the such an argument.

 

[StriderShinryu]

A quality examination of the negative aspects of the Twilight series. As worthy of reading by the Twilight obsessives as it is by the "Durr.. Twilight is bad bcuz vampirez aren't supposed to be sparkly!!1!" crowd.