The Real Deal on Zero Punctuation

Erttheking

Member
Legacy
Apr 23, 2020
10,845
1
3
Country
United States
SecretNegative said:
Which of your favorite games did he not like this time?
Translation "You're making complaints about him? uh...uh...uh...uh...YOU'RE JUST BUTT HURT!"
 

Savryc

NAPs, Spooks and Poz. Oh my!
Aug 4, 2011
395
0
0
Or you could just let people get on with it and stop trying to dictate what they should think to them. So what if someone takes Yahtzee's words as gospel truth? What harm does it do to you? Because they don't "Employ basic observation and critical thinking skills?" who are you to decide that?

You come here flogging a dead horse which has been so thoroughly flogged before that it's now more puddle than Equine, say absolutely nothing new and try to pass it off as if you're trying to enlighten some lowborn plebs that don't know any better. If anything I'd say that also lacks basic observation and critical thinking skills. Pot, kettle, etc.

And since this will just be passed off as a fanboy rant unless I put in multiple qualifiers. Yes, I do watch ZP, no I don't agree with him about everything, yes I am aware that all this is just my opinion. I wouldn't be bloody saying it if it wasn't.
 

ShadowsofHope

Outsider
Nov 1, 2009
2,623
0
0
remnant_phoenix said:
You do realize you are essentially preaching to the choir on this one, correct? Yahtzee and most of the Escapist community are already well aware of the relationship between ZP and more.. professional reviewing.

Also, which review did he nip at your ankle with, eh?
 

Erttheking

Member
Legacy
Apr 23, 2020
10,845
1
3
Country
United States
SecretNegative said:
erttheking said:
Translation "You're making complaints about him? uh...uh...uh...uh...YOU'RE JUST BUTT HURT!"
Oh you poor thing, didn't uncle Yahtzee like your game?

See, I can be insufferable smug too, it's not hard. If you wish to contribute something, do it.
Oh so what, Yahtzee can complain about games all he wants acting like the most trival flaws are massive issues and his opinion is viewed as valid and reasonable, but the second someone complains about him it's "Oh look, an idiot fanboy" Hypocritial much?
 

Exile714

New member
Feb 11, 2009
202
0
0
Most game reviewers play nice with big developers because they want pre-release games so they can churn out early reviews. THEY should not be taken seriously.

But, one can glean an understanding of the successes and faults of a game by reading into reviews. Bad plot? Impressive visuals at the expense of enjoyment? Flawed but highly enjoyable nonetheless?

Yahtzee provides another piece of the puzzle. I know what he likes, what he doesn't, and he gives an entertaining summation of his gripes about the games he reviews. Yes, reviews. A review doesn't have to be a pro's and con's list, it simply has to inform. He informs, he reviews.

You shouldn't judge a game by his TONE, that's part of the show. Just like you shouldn't judge a game by its metacritic score, or by the 10 point reviewer scale where 7 is reserved for the worst of the worst.

Being informed isn't just about picking sources and ignoring others. It's about collecting information from many sources to create a tapestry of information which should then assist you in making a decision. Yahtzee is a piece of that tapestry for me.
 

mightybozz

New member
Aug 20, 2009
177
0
0
Best part of Wednesdays: New ZP.

Worst part of Wednesdays: someone starting a thread debating whether or not yahtzee is to be taken seriously.

My perspective: he presents opinions on videogames. I don't see the difference in function between a critic and a reviewer. A reviewer is supposed to review a game to tell you if it's good. A critic is supposed to criticise a game to tell you if it's good. This is part consumer advice and part artistic commentary on the games in question.

Yahtzee (as he has said himself) uses humour to get his points across. I'm grateful he exists, because he has a style which is completely in contrast to most reviewers. It's no secret that games journalism is pretty crap overall, and susceptible to hype. Enter Yahtzee, a cynic who refuses to buy into hype and doesn't give a damn what anyone else thinks.

Yahtzee is the only reviewer I find consistently trustworthy. I may not agree with him on everything, but his points are usually clear, coherent and valid. Even other reviewers on the escapist are sometimes guilty of buying into hype (the dragon age 2 review, for instance).Tbh, I wish he'd stop reviewing the same games over and over again (battlefield, uncharted, assassin's creed, gears of war, modern warfare) etc. and just do some more weird indy reviews. Fingers crossed for the one he hinted at in this week's extra punctuation!

ZP is opinion. Rather eloquently and satisfyingly expressed opinion, with a depth of insight lacking in most games journalism. That's all review and critique is. Opinion. He certainly can't be dismissed as not serious.
 

rsvp42

New member
Jan 15, 2010
897
0
0
For me, the problem is people agreeing with him too readily. His Extra Punctuation column seems to me like his chance to drop the fast-talking, snarky persona of his videos and get real about what he thinks and that's where I tend to disagree with him, if I disagree at all. I think those articles are as good a time as any to call him out on his reasoning, but it seems that users are a little too quick to agree with him. I think we should all just laugh at his videos and take from them what we will, but when he elaborates later on, we should take him to task over it if we disagree because at that point, he opening himself up for it. Those articles don't have the same "humorous critic" defense that you can make for his videos.
 
Jan 22, 2011
450
0
0
I personally like the guy, even though I don't agree with opinion's on some genres of games "jrpgs or vn's" however I do agree that survival horror games and fps have just fallen to the wayside, i try to review things myself but hell I don't think I can pull it off the way he does.
http://cecilsanimevisualnovelreview.blogspot.com/2011/06/what-did-i-just-play.html
 

kwydjebo

New member
Sep 1, 2010
45
0
0
I like Yahtzee.
He's entertaining, his opinions are similar to mine at times, and when they are not, well I guess I'm just not "l33t" enough to really care. I'm a comic book fan, so when he took shots at me and my ilk (Batman games, DCUO) I neither took offense or cried foul, I laughed it off, because it was funny (And sadly true in some cases).

As for games, I actually use his reviews as additional info when trying to form opinions, especially if I know little about the game. He may be critical, but he also gives insight into the game, and that is sometimes useful in making a desicion.
His Saints Row 2 review lead to my buying the game for a friend's birthday, and he enjoyed it.
I liked his Batman Reviews (Arkham City and the previous Asylum) but I owned both games when the reviews came out.
I was on the fence about Fallout 3, and his descriptions put me over, and I thank him for that.
I was equally on the fence about Mafia 2, and his (and other reviews) lead me to wait since I concluded that it was not worth the initial $60 price.

He provides an interesting viewpoint (at times) that is presented in an entertaining way that can get me to think about aspects I hadn't considered. And at the end of it all, its just his opinion so if I find I really disagree with what he said, well that's life! I enjoyed Borderlands, which he savaged, yet I still tune in.

Of course his videos, like the games themselves, are subject to the viewer's opinion as to whether they are entertaining or not. If you enjoy them, great, if you find them stupid, well no one is forcing you to keep tuning in.

And as Yahtzee himself said (In the Arkham Asylum video) you don't tune in to see him be nice so he'll pick whatever nits he can find, while admitting that he did actually enjoy a game, or that it was done well, for the most part.
 

keideki

New member
Sep 10, 2008
510
0
0
This thread reeks of doom and flame wars. Either way ZP may not be a review show, but it certainly can be used to gauge whether or not the flaws that appear in certain titles would be enough to put you off the game. More than once I have been primed to buy a title during the launch week or soon there after, then watched a ZP episode about it and realized that the flaws that are pointed out would make it harder to enjoy the game, and thus I usually wait for the title to go down to a price point that makes up for those flaws.
 

EvilPicnic

New member
Sep 9, 2009
540
0
0
This I agree with 100%:

remnant_phoenix said:
Can helpful and informative things be gleaned from ZP? Of course. That is, if you look past the exaggerated comic effect, ZP does provide some helpful information on games. Is it possible to tell by Yahtzee's opinion whether or not you'll like a game? Sure. That is, if you have a good understanding of how Yahtzee's taste compares to your own.
I would argue that most people with decent critical faculties and a working knowledge of satire (i.e. those of us who aren't 12-year old reactionary fucktards) can extract the cogent information from a Zero Punctuation review and appreciate it for what it is: an amusing mix of on-the-ball criticisms and funny hyperbole.

Some of the earlier stuff in the OP I take issue with though.

I'm getting tired of the internet truism that 'reviewer' and 'critic' are completely separate things. They're not. A critic is just a fancy word for someone who makes value judgements, and a review is the expression of those judgements. A reviewer is someone who writes reviews, therefore reviewer = critic in any useful sense.

You also throw out the character assassination of 'he is a jaded, cynical, misanthrope' like it's some sort of valid criticism. It (or similar) could also be applied to MovieBob, or Roger Ebert, or Mark Kermode, or any other critic who has a personality or persona that comes through in a review. I don't see anything wrong with critics attempting to entertain whilst criticising, even more so when it's obviously put-on and the distinction between accurate criticism and comic hyperbole is more apparent.

I also disagree with the OP in that I don't think yahtzee saying:

"I don't believe in scores because I don't believe a complex opinion can be represented numerically. You like numbers? How about four? As in four-k you! Do you really need someone in authority giving you a simple yay or nay before you buy anything? Why don't you roll over so they can stamp on the other side of your face?"
translates to "don't listen to my opinion because all outside opinions are invalid" which is what the OP seems to imply. You're quoting out of context.

Anyway, this has gone on longer than anticipated and all I meant to say is that the statement: 'Yahtzee is absolutely factually correct about everything he says' is obviously false, but also 'Yahtzee is merely an entertainer, his opinion has no merit' is equally false.

And... I'm pretty sure that's the point the OP was making anyway. Huh. maybe I was taking 'there's not a ton of discussion value' as a challenge...
 

Treblaine

New member
Jul 25, 2008
8,682
0
0
remnant_phoenix said:
He is a "critic," and he goes out of his way to call himself a "critic," not a "reviewer," and there is a subtle, yet distinct, difference there. He doesn't see his job as reviewing a game and giving an overall opinion, good and bad. He sees his job as criticizing a game, pointing out its flaws and ragging on them, even if they are petty and nit-picky criticisms.
... Critic...



Pro-tip: someone who reviews things is a critic.

"reviewer" is not a distinct term from "critic". A criticism can be positive OR negative. A restaurant Critic can recommend the restaurant or pan it. Yahtzee does - like all critics - talk about the positives but really that should be a given. He is giving fair warning to the bad aspect so people know what they are getting into if they get the game.

PS: Yahtzee has made many positive reviews before but NOTHING is perfect, so nothing should go without some negative assessment. Yahtzee is valued because he gives the good with the bad, he doesn't talk in absolutes of "worst game ever" or "perfect game".
 

BehattedWanderer

Fell off the Alligator.
Jun 24, 2009
5,237
0
0
He doesn't review, he critiques. Comically. Quickly. Cynically. And often without breath. If he finds something distasteful, he will describe which particular brand of terrible it is. You only take it seriously as far as you agree, and find it equally distasteful, or at least bothersome. Tired of hiding behind walls in a gun fight? Annoyed at cheap deaths? Couldn't make sense of the plot without reading the piecewise unpublished book that is the Wiki page? He'll have a gripe for that.
 

Iwata

New member
Feb 25, 2010
3,333
0
0
I look forward to ZP the same way I look forward for any weekly comedy show, and I certainly don't look at it as a serious review series. It's comedy, and every so often, it may raise an occasional good point. But I certainly don't rely on it to help me decide which games to buy or not.
 

guitarsniper

New member
Mar 5, 2011
401
0
0
interesting thing to note about ZP, and to a lesser extent, Escape to the Movies: I don't necessarily always agree or disagree with them when they say something's bad, but most of the things they've said are good that i've played/watched i have enjoyed. The two examples that spring to mind right now for Yahtzee are CoD4 and Arkham Asylum.