Robert Marrs said:
Happyninja42 said:
Robert Marrs said:
How is this even a conversation anymore?
Because we are talking about it.
Robert Marrs said:
All of the characters are basically just other versions of the main character. Same dude who just looks a bit different. Are we really all going to just sit here and totally ignore that context?
Nope, we have discussed that context, and the stupidity of the concept itself, that's just not the focus of
this thread. That the hero is some Agent Smith from Matrix: Reloaded kind of thing, duplicating over and over, or that he's got multiple personalities. Or that Ubisoft is just dumb and layed a thin coat of bullshit paint saying "they're all the same guy!! only they're not from your point of view! the other guys are just someone else..or..some such junk..um..yeah that makes sense!"
Robert Marrs said:
Even if that was not the case its STILL not an issue.
Yes it is.
Robert Marrs said:
Really not in the mood to repeat the same reasons why Ubisoft should be able to make whatever Ubisoft wants. I'm sure you can find some proper counter arguments in this thread.
Sure, they can make whatever game they want. But since they hope that we are going to
buy it, and come up with a really,
really stupid reason why you can't play a female character, we have every right to criticize them about it, and call them out on their stupid business practices.
Sure, they have
every right to make a male centric game with a really stupid explanation why women aren't included, that is 100% true, but we have every right to call them on their bullshit, and point out how we, the consumer, don't like the product they are making, and why.
Would you mind telling me exactly why this is an issue? A logic based argument that holds up under some questioning?
Any kind of reason other than "if you don't get it its just because your a bigot". I don't think anyone has ever given me a solid reason as to why this matters beyond their own emotions. At least not one that holds up when examined.
First off, I never called you a bigot, in fact I didn't use that word at all in my statement, or direct any of my comments to you personally. So don't inject something like that into what I said.
You want a non-emotional argument? Fine, you can have my reason for it, which has no emotional involvement, as I truly don't have any personal investment in the discussion. I'm not frothing at the mouth about this topic, but I do have a stance on it.
It's an issue, because the player base (ie: the company's customer base and way of making money) is tired of the homogenous nature of the characters they are allowed to play in the games that are made. They want some variety, some options, some choice in who they get to play as in the games they spend their money on. And I do emphasize
allowed, because the developer is holding all the cards when it comes to the final content of the game. And like I said before, that's their right, they
can make whatever game they want. But again, like I said before, and in fact said in the post you quoted,
we don't have to like it, or buy it, and we have every right to criticize them for the product. They made it, and put it out for the public to consume and review, well here you go, this is our review of it. When you make a product for the public, the public has a right to state their views on the quality of your product. Same with any product. We can state why it's good/bad, worth/not worth your money, or what could be improved. It's just simple economics. We don't have to just accept whatever they give us, we have a right to say "nope, sorry, I don't like the product you're giving me. It's repetitive, it's cliche, and it's dull. If you want my dollar, make a game with more variety, other than White Guy."
And the company has every right to say "Pssh, whatever, I'mma keep making White Guy games". And they can, they have every right to make that game, and I will criticize anyone that says they can't, or tries to prevent that company from making whatever game they want. But again, that doesn't protect them from criticism for their product, or their business model. If you make a product that the customer base finds crappy, be prepared for crappy PR and reviews.
Now, that out of the way, the main issue with Unity, as has been explained multiple times in other places and on this site as well.
The reason they gave for why they don't have women, is a stupid reason. It's just stupid. "All of you play the same guy! Just different!" ...well how the hell does that work? And why? Why does an assault squad comprised of the same guy, just wearing different clothes, make any sense? Especially given the Animus plot device. That is a bizarre, and highly illogical plot device to explain away multiplayer. I will acknowledge that maybe they painted themselves into a corner, plot wise, to explain it, based on the plot events of Unity, I don't know, I haven't read anything that specific about it. But that doesn't excuse that the reason is still a stupid reason. Bad writing is bad writing, and bad game design is bad game design. Also the whole "it's more expensive" reason doesn't really float either, given their budget, and a lot of the stuff they put into games that could easily be left out to cut corners budget wise.
The other reason is that it's just bizarre based on the human species. There is a full 50% (possibly more based on census) of the population that isn't being represented in the game world. I'm not talking about the female players exclusively, I'm talking about the fact that
women do stuff too meaning just by simple averages, the likelihood of a woman doing some stuff cool enough to base a video game around, is pretty high. And again, as I stated before, it's already been established in the Assassin Creed-verse, that women are members of the order. And over several centuries of children, and family branching that takes place, there is a lot of potential for female decendents of the Altair line. And that is the only requirement for being an AC protagonist. "You have a genetic tie to the Altair line, or whatever genetic line we're using at the time." Well hey, I bet there's a couple women born from Altair's line. So, again, why not have them be a protagonist? There isn't any logical reason, in-game, or real life to exclude them. And at least some of the customer base wants to see an AC game with a female protagonist. The only reason that Ubisoft can give, that I would actually believe at this point is "we just don't want to".
And that's fine, again,
they can do that if they wan't But the reasons they have given, are demonstrably wrong, and also just silly. So yeah, we're going to call them out on it.
Was that logical enough for you?