The reason why open world gaming sucks.

[ExileNZ]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Exile 3 yet. SNIP

Man, those were the days. Every single plague had the capacity to practically erase towns from the map. My second time through I didn't even fight the demons - I just won the game before they even attacked (discovered how to use Mind Duel effectively, totally broke the game).

Reminds me, I've got Avadon to finish one of these days...

 

[More Fun To Compute]

What would be the point in that? Really, all it would do would be to annoy people. The point of these games is to explore and do it your own way, when and how you like.

Dead Rising already proved that timers in sandbox/open world games are a terrible idea and detract from the fun rather than adding to it.

It's already been said more than once that the point is to make you engage more with what is happening and the decision you make. That is the point. It is possible that a game might be designed to do more than one thing for more than one purpose. And I don't really care about what you think of Dead Rising, the timers and events made it entertaining. There are plenty of opportunities and times to get bored of messing around if you want.

 

[Andy Shandy]

Like others have said open-world games tend to be more on the exploration of the world you're given above anything else, so some arbitrary time limit to look around it just tends to piss a lot of people off.

I was one of the few that actually likes the time limit in the Dead Rising series, but even I'll admit there were/are times where I'd much rather just go round killing zombies without having to worry about some time limit for the next bit of story or a side mission. Which is why I really enjoyed Sandbox Mode in Dead Rising 2: Off The Record.

 

[ExileNZ]

Why has no one mentioned Balder's Gate II yet? With all the love for Bioware you'd think it'd be on the first page.

Admittedly, this time limit is the main reason I never got very far - I couldn't decide what to do or where to go, so I never left the first town.

I played Fallout sometime after that, so I'd be fine now. But that knowledge that there's so much to do and so little time can be very daunting.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

It's already been said more than once that the point is to make you engage more with what is happening and the decision you make. That is the point. It is possible that a game might be designed to do more than one thing for more than one purpose. And I don't really care about what you think of Dead Rising, the timers and events made it entertaining. There are plenty of opportunities and times to get bored of messing around if you want.

If that would somehow engage you more in the mission then good for you. I however, find timers to be a pain in the ass in any situation, I don't want to be pressured in a genre that is built around freedom.

 

[ExileNZ]

Like others have said open-world games tend to be more on the exploration of the world you're given above anything else, so some arbitrary time limit to look around it just tends to piss a lot of people off. SNIP

Worth noting tho, that once you get the water chip in Fallout you've got up to day 500 to do what you want. I'm not sure I ever stuck with a character long enough to hit that limit.

You need the sense of urgency for the beginning, but afterwards you've basically got all the time in the world.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

If that would somehow engage you more in the mission then good for you. I however, find timers to be a pain in the ass in any situation, I don't want to be pressured in a genre that is built around freedom.

Well I wouldn't want anything in any game anywhere that some people thought was a pain in the ass or too challenging. I wouldn't want to be the one who rocked the boat and made people on a forum rant about what an extremist I am.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

If that would somehow engage you more in the mission then good for you. I however, find timers to be a pain in the ass in any situation, I don't want to be pressured in a genre that is built around freedom.

Well I wouldn't want anything in any game anywhere that some people thought was a pain in the ass or too challenging. I wouldn't want to be the one who rocked the boat and made people on a forum rant about what an extremist I am.

That's a strawman argument. No-one is suggesting the games shouldn't be challenging, but that timers add the kind of challenge that people generally don't enjoy.

 

[chikusho]

Oblivion is an RPG. If the character you're role playing as feels no urgency towards advancing the main plot, there _is_ no urgency.

 

[Insanity72]

Sounds like you've never played Fallout 1.

Yeah, it's not exactly a modern game, but it fits what you're describing.

You have 150 in game days to find a water chip for your vault. Although I'm pretty sure the game automatically ends if you fail. I don't know, I've never let that happen.

You've just tore me up inside, I was just about to post about how I hate time limits in games, forces you to do things when you want to do other things etc. etc. but then I see your post and what was I about to go do? Install Fallout collection and play Fallout 1

 

[Frotality]

the same reason games dont self-destruct the first time you die in-game: some bits of realism are just far too inconvenient for gameplay. the entire point of an open-world is freedom, and slapping a time limit on the amount of freedom you can have before the mandated story-event makes the game feel even more restrictive than a linear one. it works in dead rising because the purpose of the open-world there isnt freedom, its an obstacle course to make it more tense and time-consuming to get from objective to objective, and even then i think i would much rather do away with the time limit.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

That's a strawman argument. No-one is suggesting the games shouldn't be challenging, but that timers add the kind of challenge that people generally don't enjoy.

Many people claim not to enjoy any sort of challenge. Cheat codes and walkthroughs have always been some of the most popular content in games magazines and web sites. When people say they work in games development to strangers one of the first things they are asked is if they know any cheat codes. You get respected game journalists saying that games should all have an option for god mode like doom because they only want to mess around and experience the story.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

That's a strawman argument. No-one is suggesting the games shouldn't be challenging, but that timers add the kind of challenge that people generally don't enjoy.

Many people claim not to enjoy any sort of challenge.

Not on this thread, they don't.

 

[ascorbius]

I firmly believe that timers in open games are a bad idea, I'd even go to say that I was turned off a certain RTS because each mission had a timer. I'd get right up to the end and then Fail because I'd ran out of time.. SUCKED!

The problem with timers is that they don't really represent anything in-game. They're just a countdown to some game over event... what if there were other ways to prevent said event? That would open the freedom to explore and solve problems. This could create game play opportunities.


Imagine:

RPG where you're placed in the midst of a civil war, an evil war lord is amassing his forces in an effort to crush the rebellion. If left unchecked, he will totally steamroll you and your merry band of friends.

So how about you can choose to disrupt his supply lines in real time, track and kill his generals, place traps, ambush his soldiers.

This could force the enemy to adopt different tactics to try to achieve their goals - The gameplay being in trying to stop him and figuring out how.

There is a kind-of time limit in this, but it's not a clock. It's simply, the enemy may be able to defeat you and your friends because he was allowed to.

This wouldn't work for games like Skyrim simply because they're Adventure simulators where everything revolves around you being the hero in your own time. It's this freedom which people love in the game.

Although I would like to see a free roaming RPG where there is an AI deploying forces in response to your actions to try to defeat you.

Does a game like this exist?

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Not on this thread, they don't.

I didn't say they were. I'm not sure that you have proved false equivalence here. The sort of argument I'm making is that group A might be the people who don't like the challenge of time limits and that group B might be people who think that every game should have a god mode because they don't like any challenge. And that both are part of group C which is people who I shouldn't offend because arguing for challenge that some people don't like in games is offensive. Group D, people posting in this thread, is not relevant in this case.

 

[aguspal]

Ever played Dead Rising? That was annoying as hell. It was fun to run around and it was a bloody amazing game (I played 2) but you end up unable to do shit because of timers. You know I was unable to get the best ending because I was, and I am not kidding, about 10 seconds off the timer, and all my saves didn't let me get back their in time. I was at the FUCKING door, and it just said GAME OVER! LOLOLOLOLOL.

I never finished that game.

You had more than enough time if you played well...


The timer was a nice addition IMO, the first time you play yeah it is a little annoying, but you soon get the hang of it. I personally loved it.

 

[Strazdas]

the whole point of open world games is that you do anything but the main quest. a good way of doing it was morrowind. you are thrown on an island, free to explore. infact the main quest (casius Cosades) encourages you to go out and "explore and do some outside missions to keep up your cover". there is no urgency. i play open world because i can explore it thouraly and slowly. i like going back to save, drop off loot and hoard items. i could play them for hundreds of hours, took 232 hours to finnish fallout 3 twice, so thats 116 hours per run. i like not being hurried with the main story.
in fact, i HATE missions whether its shooter or RTS where there is a timer. timer is the worst thing that can happen in games. i want to play the game at my own pace.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I didn't say they were. I'm not sure that you have proved false equivalence here. The sort of argument I'm making is that group A might be the people who don't like the challenge of time limits and that group B might be people who think that every game should have a god mode because they don't like any challenge. And that both are part of group C which is people who I shouldn't offend because arguing for challenge that some people don't like in games is offensive. Group D, people posting in this thread, is not relevant in this case.

Agreed. This is a question of challenge.

I've long argued that our avatars in games should get tired, sick, and age. For example, if you take a gun shot, your character/game should be unavailable to you for 1-2 months of real time for recovery and physical rehabilitation. A sword cut should result in tetanus or possibly septicemia, the blades employed in most of these settings are filthy. Any serious wound or violent confrontation should have a chance of resulting in PTSD, which paralyzes your character during recurrences of these events. In addition you should have to eat, sleep and defecate in games, and your character should not respond to input commands during these times, leaving you vulnerable.

Some people may find these challenges extreme, but some people are pussies and like to complain. After all, challenges are NEVER at cross purposes with fun.

 

[J.McMillen]

Some people here already posted the idea of time based questlines combined with the normal open world gameplay. I like this idea. Otherwise i prefer my free roam games without a timer. Dead Rising 2 was a game i really wanted to like but the concept of failing, restarting and leveling up on a ticking clock was not for me.

I agree, having some quests being time based can be a good thing. The pressure to complete the quest adds to the excitement. City of Heroes had a two part mission, the first was untimed but as soon as you finished it, you had 10 minutes to complete the second part. That's right, 10 minutes. I played this mission with several different character and it was one of the most exciting and nerve wracking missions every time. It was also one of the most satisfying too beat.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Agreed. This is a question of challenge.

I've long argued that our avatars in games should get tired, sick, and age. For example, if you take a gun shot, your character/game should be unavailable to you for 1-2 months of real time for recovery and physical rehabilitation. A sword cut should result in tetanus or possibly septicemia, the blades employed in most of these settings are filthy. Any serious wound or violent confrontation should have a chance of resulting in PTSD, which paralyzes your character during recurrences of these events. In addition you should have to eat, sleep and defecate in games, and your character should not respond to input commands during these times, leaving you vulnerable.

Some people may find these challenges extreme, but some people are pussies and like to complain. After all, challenges are NEVER at cross purposes with fun.

You are like a bad version of Monty Python's argument clinic sketch.