The Rest of the Story

[Dastardly]

Extra Consideration: The Rest of the Story

Our contributors turn their gaze on Resident Evil to close out the discussion of story in games.

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It seems like most of the discussion about problematic stories centers around immersion, which to me breaks down into two parts: pacing and emotion.

First, pacing. The action stops, and you have story. It's like opera, in which recitative is where the story happens, but everyone's there to hear the arias. Or like slasher films or porn--in both cases, story is just stalling while you're waiting to see how the next person gets screwed. The action breaks down into abstract nuggets of fun... and the story has no momentum, because it keeps interrupting itself with "commercial breaks" called gameplay.

Next, emotion. Shamus made a remark about RE4: "...all of your worst setbacks take place in the cutscenes." It raises a good point. In addition to the "shit hits fan" moments, cutscenes are also where all of the cool shit happens. And shouldn't that be the stuff the player gets to do? It's hard to immerse yourself in a character when you spend his/her most brilliant moments just watching.

Really, the story works with the gameplay as long as both are following the same pacing (without interrupting each other), and working to convey the same emotional tone to both the character and the player. When the story is getting to the good parts, the player should be doing more, not less. And when the hero is feeling heroic, the player should feel heroic, too.

 

[Moffman]

Hate Morrowind so much I didn't get to this villain story ... kinda a shame

 

[emusega]

You know, as much as I love James and Bob down to the bone, I have to admit Graham and Shamus did a good job.
But I felt disappointed at the end. Everyone stated opinions and then it was over. The interesting part, the discussion was kind of left out.
Oh well, maybe there is a second part to that.
Other than that, please keep em coming.

 

[Misho-]

It's okay Graham no one likes syrup on their pork meats at all.

Awww c'mon... This is way too common... I go to any hotel, ask for a breakfast and get a couple of pancakes with 2 strips of bacon or 2 sausages and some eggs. And the Maple syrup on top of the pancakes MIGHT slide a little over the bacon or the sausages... It's not like OHHHHH THE HUMANITY! It's more like yum A nice mixture of different flavors combined to something that in one way or another will get mixed in your stomach...

But anyway... You are probably wondering right now which Hotels do I go to as to not order any breakfast there...

 

[Misho-]

Lol is it my impression or Yahtzee always dominates these Extra Considerations???

he has a powerful personality. Have you not noticed that certain people have a habit of doing this in your day to day life aswell. There will be somebody opinionated who will own conversations.

Lol yeah this happens to me all of the time. I'm the other guy, the guy that tries to open his mouth to add something to the conversation but end up being cut off time and time again...

And people tell me am a great listener lol...

 

[beema]

Geeze, everyone faps like crazy over the Bioshock intro. I was at a games con and there was some seminar on audio design and they used the Bioshock intro for reference.

I mean, it's really good no doubt, but I don't think it's THAT amazing.

 

[Lordarioch]

speaking of diablo 2... it had the dumbest charachter in the whole freaking video game history, for those how dont know exactly who i am speaking of Marius ... "What choice did i have?" OH I DONT KNOW!!! NOT FREE BAAL AND SET IN MOTION THE END OF THE WORLD!!!!!!

 

[MattAn24]

Should've gone after branston pickle instead of marmite. Or maybe said something mean about Saints Row 2.

Beyond that, I don't really think there's more much to add. I guess I said everything I had to say last week, and this didn't really inspire any new thoughts.

One flaw in your plan.. Graham ADORES Saint's Row 2. With a passion. Much the same as I do.

 

[MattAn24]

Like I just said... It's pretty easy to know what Shaemus and Yatzhee's stance on storytelling in game is (i.e. Not really important, can be enjoyable if it doesn't get in the way) based on the work they do here on the escapists. Grant was the wild card here, but it turns out he agrees with them.
So yeah. The topics are fine imo... but back and forth text discussion isn't for everybody. Yatzhee and Bob are obviously good troll, Sheamus and Grant aren't.

....Who the hell is Grant? Is he Graham's secret-evil-twin-brother-whom-wears-a-monocle-and-top-hat that murdered Graham and is now walking among us as the late favourite comedy legend?

 

[BrotherRool]

The only dissent I can add, is that Jane Austen NEVER shows. The books are all 150-200 pages of telling and even despite my prejudice against classics I have to admit they're some of the best books I've ever read. The closest she comes to showing, is telling from the perspective of an unreliable narrator.

Shakespeare too. Does Romeo show intricate and complex signs of love? No he proses for a good five minutes on how much he loves Juliet and then people come along and say "you are in love and naive". Admittedly with Shakespeare there's are showing aspects in what people say, rather than just telling straight out but he's still more likely just to spend a lot of words telling than to completely show.

Tolkien did neither really because his stories weren't character based. But if you read it, there's a lot more of him telling you that a load of orcs were slain and that Frodo got one, rather than showing how. And he's just as likely to tell you that Samwise is feeling the weight of the ring as he is to show how extra snappish Frodo is.

People who concentrate entirely on showing end up with a lot of purple prose. All media is a balance of the two and the time spent showing can bog up the plot and make the experiencer lose sensation of time, place and priority.

That said. Yeah telling doesn't work in games. The less wordy and more involved the media format the less appropriate telling is. It doesn't work well for movies and it doesn't work at all well for games. The cool bits of games are where you get shown. It's why I feel that rather than have a set-back happen in a cutscene it's much more fun to have an insurmountable force thrown at you until you die. The real trick is manipulating the player to the extent that he actually feels and acts as the character is supposed to.

EDIT: Second the appreciation of Max Paynes dream/non-gameplay gameplay sequences

 

[sorenity34]

I reeeeeeaaaaalllly hope Yahtzee does a retrospective review of Second Sight. Hopefully that will have the same effect that it did for Painkiller, as Second Sight was frickin' awesome, not only in the story department, but also in gameplay: for any given situation there are about 10 ways to tackle it.

ie. Single guard down a hallway, standing next to a trash can. Do you:
A. Shoot him in the face, alert guards in next room.
B. Throw psychic energy at him, guard silently dies.
C. Hypnotize him so that he cant see you, then knock him out.
D. Use telekinesis on the trash can, scare him, then sneak past.
E. Use telekinesis on the trash can, smash guard in face.
F. Use telekinesis on guard, smash into wall and/or ceiling.
G. Possess guard, go to next room, shoot all the other guards, then commit suicide by shooting a tank of gasoline.

I could go on

 

[Jonathan Fifer]

You want good games with epic plot twists? Try the Ace Attorney Series, every case (except for the tutorials, obviously) will keep you guessing and pull about 20 plot twists on you (all of which make sence).
Also, Ghost Trick's plot is just one long series of plot twists that, miraculously, all make sence in the end.

 

[darknight910]

If KOTOR is the Sixth Sense of gaming, what does that make KOTOR II then?

 

[NaramSuen]

If KOTOR is the Sixth Sense of gaming, what does that make KOTOR II then?

The Others

 

[webchameleon]

If it takes place in Africa, and 95/100 of the infected are black, the game is not racist.

If you're a video-game reviewer who was silent about the rabid Spaniards in RE4 but cried foul over the black mobs in RE5, then YOU are racist.

 

[Flaming Geek]

Thank Adonalsium, someone else likes Second Sight! It's one of my favorite games, story wise. And I liked the balance between psychic powers, gunplay and stealth. Plus all the little details in the environment.

What I don't get about stories in games is how, even in the framework of cutscene-gameplay-cutscene-gameplay, the stories are just so BAD. They should be lifting ways to make great stories from other mediums, books and movies have been writing fantastic stories for years, see what THEY'RE doing and figure out how to do that in games!

 

[confusingnoise]

Seriously Escapist & Extra Consideration guys? What started as a place where you people (supposedly 'in the know' with something useful to say) could strike up an interesting and through provoking debate has simply turned into a load of back-slapping, insult-tossing drivel.

At what point did a list of your favourite games and answers like 'I agree with everything you say' constitute constructive and informative debate? With the minds that are put together for these Extra Consideration sessions, some really good discussions could ensue.

The quality of the content on this website has gone seriously downhill.

 

[SiskoBlue]

It's hard to remember a game whose story really impressed me? There are times when I can say the delivery was impressive, like Uncharted 2. Usually with the caveat "amazing by game standards". But most games use such ridiculous hackney formulas and comic book plots that I find them laughable.

Take Bioshock. Despite the intro blowing a lot of people away I just felt bored and impatient. I don't mind being stuck in first person while the exposition follows "show don't tell". Both Half-life and half-life 2 did it perfectly. And I'm all for atmosphere but to be honest starting with me surviving a plane crash and fortunately being right next to the entrance to Rapture ruined it completely for me. You are led to believe you're survival is a lucky accident. I can accept that but it's already a huge ask to suspend my disbelief 2 minutes into a story.

But of course there's enough to make me suspicious that it wasn't an accident so I knew that somehow there was a convulted plot behind it. Because even though this "accident" turns out to be planned it has to be the most ridiculous plan I've ever heard of. I brain-washed you as a weapon and then sent you a message to so you'd make your plane crash to bring you here, and yes, I knew you'd survive a plane crash....?

I'm not asking for super gritty realism, or heavy subtext like waiting for godot. But is it too much to ask that a game plot is plausable (in its context even if its high-fantasy), well told with good scripting and dialogue, and character motivation deviates from kill-because-they're-trying-to-kill-me, or they-killed-someone-I-care-about. Not all games, just one.

I love half-life 2 but even that only has the basic character motivation of survival to begin with. Then aiding rebels that I'm supposed to care about. I mean I did but I'm not sure I'd elect myself to be their hero.

Mafia II was said to be a good "story", and in essence I think it was. Youg war vet, trying to get his mum and sister out of debt ends up seduced by gangster lifestyle, but poor choices means he ends up in gaol for 10 years, and then betraying his best and most loyal friend. Some might say the dialogue was good but I was left wincing at the stereotypes and cliche lines. Also all the characters becoming mostly detestable in the end. So good story, terrible script.

 

[DrLombriz]

What about the Bulletstorm method? Other than the couple of cutscenes, when something dramatic happens that needs paying attention to, you get a button prompt which gives you a good solid look at it, and an incentive for paying attention (awesomeness points), which I thought was a good idea, at least.

 

[M12G]

I have to agree with Yahtzee on the RE plot problem. It's so massive and branching (but not neccessarily good) that when Capcom tries to shoehorn it in to the side, it's just excrutiating and it really undermines the gameplay aspect of the game. That's why I stick to games like Dead Rising and Oblivion, because you don't need back story or need to follow the plot to enjoy it, just grab the nearest sharp object and go nuts. All the theraputic fun, without having to deal with the frustration of the plot until you damn-well feel like it.