The Sad Truth About Global Warming

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Haerthan

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Mar 16, 2014
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NuclearKangaroo said:
Haerthan said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
Haerthan said:
look we are getting sidetracked, this isnt a discussion of political systems, is painfully obvious we have our own stances

my point was, if we want people to work together, we must make sure none of them gets totally screwed over, it doesnt matter if you want corporations dead or not, if we want to reduce human pollution and its effects on global warning, we must work together, think of it as, when the east and west worked together to erradicate smallpox, it didnt matter if the country infected was capitalist or communist, both parties worked together to get rid of the disease, and everyone had a great time

lets try to do just that
Fair enough. I still believe that working together is a pipe dream though. Human greed is far too strong a force for us to get together and work on this specific issue. The eradication of smallpox was a lucky thing, a thing we won't ever see happen in our lifetimes.
unlikely

we wouldnt have gotten this far as a species ignoring the benefits of jolly cooperation, thats why we stopped using CFCs once we discovered that shit was eating out our ozone layer

but there are still some issues to be resolved about climate change, some people are still not convinced of how much are humans to blame, and to be fair, climate change has happened before without humans intervening, and it was slowing down for no reason recently, now it seems this was thanks to volcanic activity

im all in for more research to be done, we should start by taking some meansures to reduce pollution because climate change or not thats generally a shit thing, and we save the most drastic meansures for when we have more data, tough im aware time is an important resourse and we shouldnt waste it
We have been at it for how long now? 40 years at least. The ecological movement got its start in the 1960s. It seems to me that we have to be RIGHT AT THE edge before we start doing anything. And the hole in the ozone layer is still there 30 years after CFCs were banned. Yes we need to measure it, yes we need to stop it. But I am afraid that it won't happen till it is too late. The stopping part I mean, the measurement part has been going on for decades now. I wish I had your optimism in this matter.
 

NuclearKangaroo

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Feb 7, 2014
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Haerthan said:
We have been at it for how long now? 40 years at least. The ecological movement got its start in the 1960s. It seems to me that we have to be RIGHT AT THE edge before we start doing anything. And the hole in the ozone layer is still there 30 years after CFCs were banned. Yes we need to measure it, yes we need to stop it. But I am afraid that it won't happen till it is too late. The stopping part I mean, the measurement part has been going on for decades now. I wish I had your optimism in this matter.
the hole in the ozone layer is shirking, it will take some time but atleast the damage is being reverted

humanity has survived unmeansurable obstacles im fairly possitive we are moving towards being a society more conscious of their effect on the environment and taking steps to reduce it
 

Reasonable Atheist

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Mar 6, 2012
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Strazdas said:
Id like to see you move, say, Los Angeles. You do realize that over 80% of human population on this earth lives on coastlines that will go underwater with polar caps melting? While you may not feel it, there are towns in india already sinking and the inhabitants got nowhere to go. You live in one of the most sparsely populated countries, so you dont see problems of moving a billion people away.

Not to mention that this shift im temperature is already killing thousands of species that are not as adoptable as humans. we may be able to just move away, but it wont help of we starve once things stop growing.
Oh shit, humanity might have some real hardship to deal with after so many years of growing fat and spoiled that the fucking user interface of our android phones changing slightly pisses everyone off? The horror, I am not going to be upset if people cant live in LA any more. We, as a species are spoiled. I do not deny global warming, I just think maybe it wont be the worst thing ever for us.

We are so spoiled that apathy of our own government has become a huge problem, because we have everything we could want already.

Along the same vein.... I think it would be pretty terrible if we cured cancer and all sickness. For individual people sure it would be awesome, but on the larger global scale pretty fucking awful.
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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Reasonable Atheist said:
Strazdas said:
Id like to see you move, say, Los Angeles. You do realize that over 80% of human population on this earth lives on coastlines that will go underwater with polar caps melting? While you may not feel it, there are towns in india already sinking and the inhabitants got nowhere to go. You live in one of the most sparsely populated countries, so you dont see problems of moving a billion people away.

Not to mention that this shift im temperature is already killing thousands of species that are not as adoptable as humans. we may be able to just move away, but it wont help of we starve once things stop growing.
Oh shit, humanity might have some real hardship to deal with after so many years of growing fat and spoiled that the fucking user interface of our android phones changing slightly pisses everyone off? The horror, I am not going to be upset if people cant live in LA any more. We, as a species are spoiled. I do not deny global warming, I just think maybe it wont be the worst thing ever for us.

We are so spoiled that apathy of our own government has become a huge problem, because we have everything we could want already.

Along the same vein.... I think it would be pretty terrible if we cured cancer and all sickness. For individual people sure it would be awesome, but on the larger global scale pretty fucking awful.
I think you underestimate the effort it would take to move everyone from the flood zones.
here is a map where red = underwater after polar caps melting:

As youll note, all the major cities will be under water.

we have spent our entire written history populating those.

Although you seem to be of the opinion that humans need to suffer so i guess that wont sway you.
 

Reasonable Atheist

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Mar 6, 2012
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Strazdas said:
Reasonable Atheist said:
Strazdas said:
Id like to see you move, say, Los Angeles. You do realize that over 80% of human population on this earth lives on coastlines that will go underwater with polar caps melting? While you may not feel it, there are towns in india already sinking and the inhabitants got nowhere to go. You live in one of the most sparsely populated countries, so you dont see problems of moving a billion people away.

Not to mention that this shift im temperature is already killing thousands of species that are not as adoptable as humans. we may be able to just move away, but it wont help of we starve once things stop growing.
Oh shit, humanity might have some real hardship to deal with after so many years of growing fat and spoiled that the fucking user interface of our android phones changing slightly pisses everyone off? The horror, I am not going to be upset if people cant live in LA any more. We, as a species are spoiled. I do not deny global warming, I just think maybe it wont be the worst thing ever for us.

We are so spoiled that apathy of our own government has become a huge problem, because we have everything we could want already.

Along the same vein.... I think it would be pretty terrible if we cured cancer and all sickness. For individual people sure it would be awesome, but on the larger global scale pretty fucking awful.
I think you underestimate the effort it would take to move everyone from the flood zones.
here is a map where red = underwater after polar caps melting:

As youll note, all the major cities will be under water.

we have spent our entire written history populating those.

Although you seem to be of the opinion that humans need to suffer so i guess that wont sway you.
Dude, you could randomly wipe out half the world's human population in a year and the species would be totally fine. Would it suck? For sure. Would it be the end of us? not even remotely close. Not to mention that this water level rising will be gradual, you do not need to move everyone at once. The modern age has been very disillusioning for us as a species. And yeah, suffering is part of the human condition, it drives us.

But I am the first to admit that I speak about this from a position of relative safety, see that little red line on your map on western canada? I live about there.
 

Atmos Duality

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Mar 3, 2010
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Well, that article hit a little closer to home than I'd like.
I'm finishing up my Meteorology/Climatology degree this Spring, and it's been...interesting to see how science actually works in the public and private thus far.

To put it politely, the U.S. government has an incredibly bipolar relationship with the sciences.0

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/8q3nmm/burn-noticed
Relevant part: 3:30 onward
(I wanted to find the original congressional hearing, but Stewart's attitude here is shockingly on point, so, there you go)

To put it honestly, we have some incredibly crooked, ignorant, stupid, and anti-intellectual people in places of real power.

Which is to say nothing of the ignorance of everyday people, but as I've learned, part of my job is to try to find ways of bringing understanding without being preachy or pushy. And that's not easy, because most people (who aren't scientists) the attitude and approach to scientific subjects is quite different than it is to an actual scientist.

In my limited experience, I've come to understand that most people "learn" things once and then have a difficult time un-learning them, even when challenged with evidence to the contrary. Global Warming/Climate Change is a firestorm of a subject because scientists don't have as firm of a grasp on the subject.

We understand the POTENTIAL consequences better than the causes, and ongoing research takes a lot of time and effort to produce results, mainly because unlike other sciences, Met/Climate is a VERY YOUNG branch of physical science; we're barely a century into what could actually be called meteorological science (essentially pioneered by Bjerknes and Rosby), and Climatology is even younger than that.

In terms of scale, our raw data collection is WOEFULLY lacking.

The short version of this is: Our understanding of the subject is improving, but it's erratic and rapid.
Imagine having to unlearn and relearn things considered "proof" or "true" every other year due to new insights, methods and just general improvements to existing tech. Most people don't want to deal with the burden of relearning; all too often, it's one-and-done, even if what they learned turned out to be wrong.

It's kinda like how in the United States, during a tornado, some people on the road opt to hide under an overpass, despite literally decades of literature and announcements telling people not to. Why? Because once upon a time, the weather service (and others) actually suggested that as a safe place to hide. There's an old PSA video dedicated to it, in fact.
(It's part of our cultural memory, if that stupid ass scene in Man of Steel was any indication)

Good editorial.