The School Shooter Mod

[InsomniJack]

In my defense, I had completely forgotten that this game was still... in existence, or whatever it was. It made for an interesting news day when Gret Tito interviewed the guy, but ultimately, I simply moved on. And I'm sure I wasn't the only one.

I blame these three folks for having brought it up again. That's right: I blame Jim, Bob, and James.

Seriously. Y'all should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

[JamesBr]

snip

Which is why said "finely honed blades" and not swords. You may be looking at it just from the Western, European, post Dark Age perspective. Blades (knives and swords) have been used for a wide variety of purposes: surgical equipment, symbol of statues, family artifact, killing, and preparation of food are all included.

I agree, but there's still the problem of symbolism. A knife and a sword have very different implications. One is a tool that can be used as a weapon, the other is weapon and nothing else. Same with guns. Also, there's the a big difference in a guy being in love with guns and the extent that the US is in love with guns. If I came across a guy who was into torture equipment, I'd think it interesting, if macabre. If I came across a country who had a love affair with torture equipment, I'd be severely off-put. The symbolism of the item is everything.

Guns were never made to do anything but kill other humans. They were eventually repurposed to kill animals when they weren't being used to kill people. Using a gun for anything else is inefficient and frankly, stupid. You never saw a country be in love with the bow and arrow the way the US loves its guns and they serve EXACTLY the same purpose (guns are just better at it). I'm not a gun hater, all I'm saying is that when you hold up an item on a pedestal and it's only purpose is suffering, you shouldn't be surprised when people start looking nervous.

 

[Dice Warwick]

another note; games like this are ones people could care less about, and moreover, one were people would take the map for it, and use it for a zombie survive game. GTA is a better game to go on rampages with, because after I rampage I can go off and play the game normal, which still involves shooting at people.

 

[JamesBr]

snip

Unfortunately, stating that necessary evil exists doesn't make it any less evil. I'm neither anti-gun nor anti-war. I understand, accept and even like certain aspects of them (guns ARE pretty f'ing sweet IMO). But even if destruction is required for an act of creation and peace may only be obtainable through violence, this doesn't mean we should hold violence on a pedestal. Guns are the modern personification of violence. Simple, efficient and easy to use. What's not to love? Oh right, the whole violence thing. By glorifying violence, we encourage it. By raising guns to an esteem that is damn near (and sometimes full-on) fetishistic, not on a personal level but on a cultural one, the country gives-off an air of violence to the rest of the world. Which, I don't know if you've heard to rest of world's opinion of the US, is pretty accurate.

 

[Lunar Templar]

this mod still exists?
why? -.- *sighs*

I'm on bobs side here, its got the right to exist, but really shouldn't

also:a some what deeper response:
Jim's argument was amusing, but wrong even putting this on the same level as GTA is laughable, and i hate GTA an game where you 'can' murder innocents, but don't have to is not the same as a game where murdering innocents is all you got, it was made purely to push buttons and should be treated as such IE ignored till it gose away

also2:the me as a gamer response: who'd wanna kill defenseless targets? wheres the fun if they can't fight back, sounds boring to me gimme targets that are armed and a dangerous and I'll show you the kinda of 'digital murderer' i am,
(hint:: the kinda that enjoys the glory of battle and the feeling one gets when killing a worthy foe)

 

[Giest4life]

snip

Which is why said "finely honed blades" and not swords. You may be looking at it just from the Western, European, post Dark Age perspective. Blades (knives and swords) have been used for a wide variety of purposes: surgical equipment, symbol of statues, family artifact, killing, and preparation of food are all included.

I agree, but there's still the problem of symbolism. A knife and a sword have very different implications. One is a tool that can be used as a weapon, the other is weapon and nothing else. Same with guns. Also, there's the a big difference in a guy being in love with guns and the extent that the US is in love with guns. If I came across a guy who was into torture equipment, I'd think it interesting, if macabre. If I came across a country who had a love affair with torture equipment, I'd be severely off-put. The symbolism of the item is everything.

Guns were never made to do anything but kill other humans. They were eventually repurposed to kill animals when they weren't being used to kill people. Using a gun for anything else is inefficient and frankly, stupid. You never saw a country be in love with the bow and arrow the way the US loves its guns and they serve EXACTLY the same purpose (guns are just better at it). I'm not a gun hater, all I'm saying is that when you hold up an item on a pedestal and it's only purpose is suffering, you shouldn't be surprised when people start looking nervous.

I wrote a lengthy response then deleted it when I realized how pointless it was because our difference is metaphysical: you believe in Evil, I don't.

However, if you think the US loves its guns, you have yet to visit the Pathans of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Seriously, I'm not even joking. Secondly, the difference between knives and swords and bows and arrows is purely a Western phenomenon. The Parthians were and the Bantu are positively infatuated with their bows and arrows. While the Sikhs have a very, very different view of swords as opposed to knives.

The world is pretty damn big, there are always exceptions to a rule.

 

[Ipsen]

I wholeheartedly agree with Jim on this one.

This is the point where Jim Sterling officially lost any and all respect from me (his awful, awful show notwithstanding). He argues that the only way to combat offensive content is to just not be offended by it, which is stupid in a plethora of ways. The first being that if this line of thinking continued on it's logical path then we as humans would never be shocked or offended by anything, which would be a. not possible and b. completely stupid. The second and largest logical fallacy in his argument problem is that he implies that people can choose what to be offended by, which just makes me foam at the mouth at how someone can POSSIBLY think that.

Out of this entire post where you repeatedly stated how illogical Jim was being, you make a single coherent (yet, misguided) point: "[...] implies that people can choose what to be offended by [...]"

Jim doesn't _imply_ that. He outright states it as fact. Because it's true. Part of being an adult is having control, or (at the very least) understanding, of your emotions. We learn how we react to things, and we make choices that steer us away from the things we find distasteful. This is a perfectly healthy and natural behavior - I believe that everyone has the right to avoid situations that they feel uncomfortable with.

But let's not loose sight of the fact that the things we find distasteful have the right to exist; given that they do not bring physical harm to a person or a person's property. Some people may in fact enjoy this game, and who are we to not let them? I would stay away from it because it would make me feel uncomfortable. But I am not so consumed by my gut reactions to get up in arms about it. If enough people decide simply to ignore it on the basis that they personally don't find it enjoyable, it will become forgotten.

Uh uh. I'll say the "grown-up" speech doesn't work here. You can control your physical reaction to an emotion as an adult, sure, but you'd be retarding yourself to simply ignore it (there's at least a slight insinuation that this is the choice to make, from both this article and agreeing forum posts).

If you, a perfect stranger, were to call me a ****** in a demeaning fashion, I may not slug you in the face immediately, but I know I, one, would be 1) obviously hurt, from the cultural backlash and retardation from not only my own countryman (assuming I'm in the same country) but of my fellow human being as well, and 2) would not let you near my personal space. As with all cases that are offensive, they attempt to demean the target, regardless if the insult is meant from their core to or just trolling.

Case in point, you can shrug off trolls and offensive shit like this school shooter mod, but I advise you don't think it as "gone". Concerning the mod, while the developers had the right to make it, but it still leaves a bad scent in the air.

 

[BarbaricGoose]

Every time I read something by Movie Bob, I just fall even more madly in love with him.

In a strictly professional... ahem... manner, of course.

 

[Redd the Sock]

While Jim isn't without some validity here, I have to side with Bob.

I honestly don't like how "free speech" has become the cover for all sorts of shitheaded behaviour. While once it meant that the government couldn't censor you, it has devloved into not only no one being able to censor you, but not even negativly critique what you say. Freedom of speech is supposed to invoke debate, not stifile it, and it doesn't work when it's one sided. As Samual Johnson Said: Every man has the right to utter what he beleives is the truth, and every other man has a right to knock him down for it.

So it is with School Shooter. Not exactrly a stylized for art Tarintino film, or a capible yet punishable action like GTA, or making some satiric point like South Park, or even justified somewhat by in game narative like any WW2 game, it seems more and more like it was developed by the kind of person that liked to drop their pants in front of company when they were kids. And with respect to James, as much as I'd like to ignore this behaviour away, this is the internet, where no matter how deparaved your antics, you will find people to support and encourage them.

The game does have the right to exist, and we have the right to not play it, and the right to give the creator a hard time about it. Preferably intelegently as attention seekers thrive on "you suck" e-mails. Jim is right that a lot of outrage does come from a place we don't always get. No one can tell me why Fuck is an offensive word as compared to other terms for the same activity (banging, bopping, boning, screwing, drilling....) so our own case can't be helped by an attitude like the old like "I know it when I see it".

The only real justification for the thing I see is a pornographic level of fantasy bahind the game, but no one wants to say that out loud as people that admit to violent fantasies of that level are usually put on medication or locked up for observation.

 

[Axelhander]

Bam! suprise jim! And i though i could contain him by just refusing to watch his show.

I think the same thing about MovieBob.

Anywho, Bob's stance is flawed, especially considering he spends so much time talking about the evils of censorship and whatnot. Though I'll (begrudgingly) give him this: he's NOT wrong for disliking the mod, nor is he wrong for thinking it shouldn't be well-received by the gaming public.

 

[Falseprophet]

I think Bob and James made good moral arguments, but Jim made the logical one. Yeah, it's probably in poor taste, but I don't think we as a mass culture can make an objective statement about taste without kowtowing to the lowest common denominator. And that gets a bit too close to the blandest-of-the-bland society in Fahrenheit 451.

(And we seriously coddle children these days. Look at an early 80s movie aimed at teens or preteens--like Goonies, Adventures in Babysitting, Gremlins, Labyrinth, Monster Squad, Cloak and Dagger. Could any movie today get away with half of what happens in those films?)

My issue with the mod isn't its existence. It's its reason for being and treatment of the topic it's addressing. I myself have never played GTA or any games like it, but I think the reason why people don't mind killing defenseless NPCs in those games is because there has never been a similar incident in real life (Or at least not to my knowledge. Feel free to correct me.). We're not replicating any real life massacre that we know of or can remember.

You are very wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spree_killers_by_number_of_victims [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spree_killers_by_number_of_victims].

 

[MightyRabbit]

Wow look Escapist, people like Jim when he's not making tasteless and over the top jokes to camera! Now I've been able to see his arguments presented without the bad 'humour', he does raise some interesting points. Still, I feel that Moviebob, Yahtzee and the guys over at Extra Credits handle this stuff better.

Just...look, so you wanna make a big thing of Jim, but give him his own column or something, and let me judge him on the merit of his intellectualism and arguments, rather than the vapid 'entertainment' of his videos.

 

[Jacksaw Jack]

I'd have to say in this dispute, Jim is victorious, James runs a close second, and MovieBob takes massive penalties for being preachy, uptight and having a 'Holier-than-thou' attitude.

 

[Aureliano]

I'm just going to echo some comments on Jim's contribution here: no, you're neither as funny nor as shocking as you wish you were. No, racial slurs do not cease to be hurtful or awful if you pretend they are not hurtful or awful. And no, you definitely should not be taking the place of the funnier and more intelligent Yahtzee on this site feature.

And in general, hate speech should not be protected speech. You're not expressing anything except your own ignorance by spreading it.

 

[JamesBr]

snip

I can agree with that, difference in opinion I suppose. I should point out that the only reason I pointed to the US as an example is because (in this case) most video games are made in the US, or at least the gun-porn shooters mostly are. They aren't the only ones who are infatuated with there weapons, but they and their western point-of-view is probably more relevant to a "violence in video games" discussion since that's probably the largest demographic of players, people with western backgrounds and symbols. Not to say it isn't relevant in other cultures, just that the difference in symbolism affects a far smaller number of people.

 

[Raiha]

i usually love this segment of the escapist, but this week was just bland. it is unfortunate that you all had to discuss such an uninteresting topic. although i should say that it is unfortunate that such a topic needed discussion. i look at School Shooter as a sort of necessary evil. without someone pushing the boundary's of bad taste, games will not be taken seriously as an art form. that being said, i find School Shooter as a game to be poorly made. controversial garbage, while somewhat useful, is still garbage.

 

[nlaq]

I wholeheartedly agree with Jim on this one.

This is the point where Jim Sterling officially lost any and all respect from me (his awful, awful show notwithstanding). He argues that the only way to combat offensive content is to just not be offended by it, which is stupid in a plethora of ways. The first being that if this line of thinking continued on it's logical path then we as humans would never be shocked or offended by anything, which would be a. not possible and b. completely stupid. The second and largest logical fallacy in his argument problem is that he implies that people can choose what to be offended by, which just makes me foam at the mouth at how someone can POSSIBLY think that.

Out of this entire post where you repeatedly stated how illogical Jim was being, you make a single coherent (yet, misguided) point: "[...] implies that people can choose what to be offended by [...]"

Jim doesn't _imply_ that. He outright states it as fact. Because it's true. Part of being an adult is having control, or (at the very least) understanding, of your emotions. We learn how we react to things, and we make choices that steer us away from the things we find distasteful. This is a perfectly healthy and natural behavior - I believe that everyone has the right to avoid situations that they feel uncomfortable with.

But let's not loose sight of the fact that the things we find distasteful have the right to exist; given that they do not bring physical harm to a person or a person's property. Some people may in fact enjoy this game, and who are we to not let them? I would stay away from it because it would make me feel uncomfortable. But I am not so consumed by my gut reactions to get up in arms about it. If enough people decide simply to ignore it on the basis that they personally don't find it enjoyable, it will become forgotten.

Uh uh. I'll say the "grown-up" speech doesn't work here. You can control your physical reaction to an emotion as an adult, sure, but you'd be retarding yourself to simply ignore it (there's at least a slight insinuation that this is the choice to make, from both this article and agreeing forum posts).

If you, a perfect stranger, were to call me a ****** in a demeaning fashion, I may not slug you in the face immediately, but I know I, one, would be 1) obviously hurt, from the cultural backlash and retardation from not only my own countryman (assuming I'm in the same country) but of my fellow human being as well, and 2) would not let you near my personal space. As with all cases that are offensive, they attempt to demean the target, regardless if the insult is meant from their core to or just trolling.

Case in point, you can shrug off trolls and offensive shit like this school shooter mod, but I advise you don't think it as "gone". Concerning the mod, while the developers had the right to make it, but it still leaves a bad scent in the air.

You proved my point, though. If I were to be so pointlessly and blatantly offensive, the mature thing for you to do would be to do what you described - even if I wouldn't fault you for loosing your cool. But like I think you understand, controlling your emotions and responding maturely is the best solution even in situations when it is difficult. If enough people controlled themselves when the trolling/racist assholes wielded this word to hurt people, I believe (as does Jim) that it would eventually loose it's sting.

I think we are almost on the same page with this issue. The difference seems to be what we're left with at the end of the day as far as an emotional response. I have a very bland *meh* response to it, because I choose to ignore it and not let it upset me. It seems, to me, that you're letting it get to you more than it deserves to.

 

[Spy_Guy]

I was sort of hoping this failtroll (Pawnstick) would fade after the first newspost gave him more publicity than he should ever have had in the first place.

Most people aren't upset when someone makes a new account here, spends his three first posts trying to be as offensive as possible, and the fourth one to flamebait, at which point he is promptly banned.
Yet when the same guy goes and makes a frankly half-assed Sourcemod and calls it "School Shooter", people make this face: >=O

So in the end, I suppose I can't justify calling him a failtroll, because despite his minimal effort, he has still sparked a lot of controversy and he has got the attention of a lot of people.

In the end, I suppose my post here is a small, but not insignificant contribution to this thread not dying like it should, and for that I feel bad.

C'est la vie.

 

[zedel]

Bam! suprise jim! And i though i could contain him by just refusing to watch his show.

I know exactly what you mean. I nearly passed on reading the article because of it. Though thanks to James and Bob, I'm glad I read it. However, in Jim's defense, he seemed to contribute a bit more than I expected of him. : /

 

[Yossarian1507]

I'm a lover of tasteless humor

Yes, we know Jim... Yes, we know.

Who the hell invited him anyway?

Anyway, weak topic, weak episode. Shooters like that are made to create controversy and nothing else. Period. That was all there was need to be said, and they spent 3 pages on that...