The slut issue

[Shadowstar38]

Not hard. It's generally an insult. It comes with disapproval. That has jack shit to do with a hard time taking the truth. It's like thinking that calling someone a fag is the same as calling them gay. Clearly if they take the first offensively they're just having a hard time taking the truth. Or maybe that's blatantly wrong because the word itself is one that is generally used as an insult and that's why they get offended.

I think that if it's an insult or not is base purely on context. Taken at face value, without, you know, the person saying it being pissed off at the time, the word means exactly what it's meant to describe.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Hmm, what would be the non-offensive alternative I wonder? "Promiscuous" has a negative connotation to it as well, so does "town bike" and other such terms.


Would "overly sexed" be good? Is there even a possible equivalent to "liar" or "gamer" when the subject is "women who have tons of sex"?

Try "vivacious". It means "full of life and energy", and works rather nicely as a non-derogatory term for someone who enjoys sex.

I think that's a bit too aloof and open to interpretation. You definitely can make it sound as such but we're going for a more precise thing here. One that can't be mistaken and explained away as something different than what it is without much effort.

 

[Kae]

Because if a word describing your behavior hurts your feelings you have only yourself to blame.

Slut is a slur. That's like calling your flamboyant friend a ****** and saying "Well it describes your behaviour!" It isn't a descriptor. It's a loaded term with extremely negative connotations.

^Listen to this person.

Seriously, it's not hard to understand, it is a derogatory term, it's purpose is to be insulting so of course people are going to feel insulted when you use it to describe them.

Definition form dictionary.com:
An immoral or dissolute woman; prostitute.

Do you now see what's wrong?

If you want to point out the fact that they have a lot of sex without being insulting you better find another word, since English isn't my first language and I don't really speak about sex often I have no idea what this word would be, but I'm sure it exists, if it doesn't then make one up, that's how the language evolves anyway.

 

[Aris Khandr]

Hmm, what would be the non-offensive alternative I wonder? "Promiscuous" has a negative connotation to it as well, so does "town bike" and other such terms.


Would "overly sexed" be good? Is there even a possible equivalent to "liar" or "gamer" when the subject is "women who have tons of sex"?

Try "vivacious". It means "full of life and energy", and works rather nicely as a non-derogatory term for someone who enjoys sex.

I think that's a bit too aloof and open to interpretation. You definitely can make it sound as such but we're going for a more precise thing here. One that can't be mistaken and explained away as something different than what it is without much effort.

If we're looking to coin a term, perhaps "dionysian", after the Greek Dionysus, the god of wine and ecstasy (not the drug).

 

[Stasisesque]

Hmm, what would be the non-offensive alternative I wonder? "Promiscuous" has a negative connotation to it as well, so does "town bike" and other such terms.


Would "overly sexed" be good? Is there even a possible equivalent to "liar" or "gamer" when the subject is "women who have tons of sex"?

Try "vivacious". It means "full of life and energy", and works rather nicely as a non-derogatory term for someone who enjoys sex.

I think that's a bit too aloof and open to interpretation. You definitely can make it sound as such but we're going for a more precise thing here. One that can't be mistaken and explained away as something different than what it is without much effort.

If we're looking to coin a term, perhaps "dionysian", after the Greek Dionysus, the god of wine and ecstasy (not the drug).

Not to be a buzzkill, but you wouldn't be coining a term. Camille Paglia did that in the late 1980s.

I do like Dionysian as a term for sexually open women, though.

 

[Aris Khandr]

Eh, my dictionary didn't have it, and Firefox also didn't think it was a word. As long as it works, though.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Problem: when did "slut" come to mean "a woman who is honest about her sex drive, and enjoys sex?" Because I never heard it used that way until the slut walk movement started up. Up until that point, I'd always understood it to mean "woman who sleeps around to an unsafe degree. Female equivalent of man-whore." Why are we supposed to act like that's a good thing again?

Edit: more specifically, it has connotations of using men for sex and casting them aside like old laundry. A woman who has sex with a lot of men isn't a slut. A woman who hits on random strangers with the express intent of getting something from them, whether the sex itself or something in return for sex, and who -- importantly -- doesn't give a rip about the feelings of her targets, would in fact be a slut. I kind of feel like "woman who enjoys sex" is an attempt to re-define it as something positive, not the actual traditional definition of the word.

 

[JimB]

Problem: when did "slut" come to mean "a woman who is honest about her sex drive, and enjoys sex?"

Outside of porn, I'm guessing more or less never.

 

[GTwander]

The word 'slut' only tends to offend women.
Call a man a slut and he's bound to turn to his friends and grimace.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Problem: when did "slut" come to mean "a woman who is honest about her sex drive, and enjoys sex?"

Outside of porn, I'm guessing more or less never.

And yet if you ask anyone involved with the slut walk movement (which is ultimately the reason we're having this conversation), they'll tell you that's exactly what it means, and since that's not a bad thing, we shouldn't be using the word as a pejorative. It absolutely boggles the mind.

 

[Stasisesque]

Problem: when did "slut" come to mean "a woman who is honest about her sex drive, and enjoys sex?"

Outside of porn, I'm guessing more or less never.

And yet if you ask anyone involved with the slut walk movement (which is ultimately the reason we're having this conversation), they'll tell you that's exactly what it means, and since that's not a bad thing, we shouldn't be using the word as a pejorative. It absolutely boggles the mind.

I don't know what a Slut Walk is where you're from, but here they are protests against rape, not about enjoying sex. To participate in a Slut Walk is to demonstrate a woman should not have to change her attitude or clothing to avoid getting raped, but that people shouldn't rape in the first place.

 

[Shadowstar38]

Except it'd be absurd to take it at face value, even if it'd make the world nice and simple. There's a social context to the word. It doesn't vanish.

Always assuming that a word has the more negative connotation is just as absurd. A large number of words can be used with other meanings, but you ant let your mind default on the lesser one.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Problem: when did "slut" come to mean "a woman who is honest about her sex drive, and enjoys sex?"

Outside of porn, I'm guessing more or less never.

And yet if you ask anyone involved with the slut walk movement (which is ultimately the reason we're having this conversation), they'll tell you that's exactly what it means, and since that's not a bad thing, we shouldn't be using the word as a pejorative. It absolutely boggles the mind.

I don't know what a Slut Walk is where you're from, but here they are protests against rape, not about enjoying sex. To participate in a Slut Walk is to demonstrate a woman should not have to change her attitude or clothing to avoid getting raped, but that people shouldn't rape in the first place.

Look up why they're called slut walks. It involved a cop suggesting that women probably shouldn't walk alone in a bad part of town "dressed like a slut," and it snowballed from there. It's primarily a protest against rape, but it's the use of the word "slut" that got everyone pissed off in the first place, and that definition is the reason frequently given for why the word itself is so offensive.

 

[JimB]

And yet if you ask anyone involved with the slut walk movement (which is ultimately the reason we're having this conversation), they'll tell you that's exactly what it means, and since that's not a bad thing, we shouldn't be using the word as a pejorative. It absolutely boggles the mind.

I fundamentally don't get the "Let's reclaim this or that word!" thing. You* want to be called a slut, but you want it to mean something else and to have to guess which definition people are using? If that's what floats your boat, well, no skin off my ass, but not for nothing, I'd just rather people stop calling one another sluts.

--
*Not you specifically. I am addressing the hypothetical person we're discussing.

 

[Shadowstar38]

Except it'd be absurd to take it at face value, even if it'd make the world nice and simple. There's a social context to the word. It doesn't vanish.

Always assuming that a word has the more negative connotation is just as absurd. A large number of words can be used with other meanings, but you ant let your mind default on the lesser one.

Funny, where the hell did I say to always assume the more negative connotation? If you're out of arguments you can just admit you're wrong instead of misrepresenting what I said.

You love to make out of left field assumptions dont you?

"It'd be absurd to take it at face value" If we're on the same page, face value meaning the straight up, no context definition I was using. That seems to imply that in a society where slut can be used as an insult instead, you should more or less go with that.

If we're in a misunderstanding, just say so instead of jumping to accusing me of trying to discredit you. You went to that conclusion way too fast.

 

[Mel Theofficegamergirl]

we don't call those types of people sluts, we call them swingers. You shouldn't use hateful words for those who live an alternative lifestyle. Of course, if they're just lying to people and causing harm to others, then yes, they are indeed a slut. Doesn't mean you should call them out on it though as that's rather rude.

 

[Shadowstar38]

I didn't, you misrepresented what I said.

And maybe the obvious eludes you, but face value isn't the only way to take it besides negatively.

Still, the point I made 3 or 4 posts ago still fits. No matter how many ways there are to take it, it's all reliant on context. Nothing you said has "eluded" me as you say.

 

[Stasisesque]

Problem: when did "slut" come to mean "a woman who is honest about her sex drive, and enjoys sex?"

Outside of porn, I'm guessing more or less never.

And yet if you ask anyone involved with the slut walk movement (which is ultimately the reason we're having this conversation), they'll tell you that's exactly what it means, and since that's not a bad thing, we shouldn't be using the word as a pejorative. It absolutely boggles the mind.

I don't know what a Slut Walk is where you're from, but here they are protests against rape, not about enjoying sex. To participate in a Slut Walk is to demonstrate a woman should not have to change her attitude or clothing to avoid getting raped, but that people shouldn't rape in the first place.

Look up why they're called slut walks. It involved a cop suggesting that women probably shouldn't walk alone in a bad part of town "dressed like a slut," and it snowballed from there. It's primarily a protest against rape, but it's the use of the word "slut" that got everyone pissed off in the first place, and that definition is the reason frequently given for why the word itself is so offensive.

The cop told women not to 'dress like sluts' in order to stay safe, i.e. to avoid getting raped. The founders of the movement responded to this by latching on to the offensive word, it isn't an attempt to reclaim the word as some sort of positive term.

Slut Walks are so named, at least the ones in London, to shock people into realising it isn't okay to use words like 'slut' to make excuses. A woman who enjoys sex is not a slut, a woman who dresses provocatively is not 'asking for it', and 'slut-shaming' is repulsive behaviour. Perhaps some critics have taken the marches and their name the wrong way, but from those I know (and myself) who have joined up with these women, it isn't about reclaiming the word but shaming every single person who's used it and thought it was fine.

 

[Shadowstar38]

I didn't, you misrepresented what I said.

And maybe the obvious eludes you, but face value isn't the only way to take it besides negatively.

Still, the point I made 3 or 4 posts ago still fits. No matter how many ways there are to take it, it's all reliant on context. Nothing you said has "eluded" me as you say.

Obviously it did unless you're saying you intentionally misrepresented my argument.

I wasn't attempting to misrepresent a thing. Nothing eluded me. But this is just becoming a back and forth. So, it's whatever.

 

[Shadowstar38]

I didn't, you misrepresented what I said.

And maybe the obvious eludes you, but face value isn't the only way to take it besides negatively.

Still, the point I made 3 or 4 posts ago still fits. No matter how many ways there are to take it, it's all reliant on context. Nothing you said has "eluded" me as you say.

Obviously it did unless you're saying you intentionally misrepresented my argument.

I wasn't attempting to misrepresent a thing. Nothing eluded me. But this is just becoming a back and forth. So, it's whatever.

A contradiction. Either you forgot a possibility or you were just dishonest. Because you clearly misrepresented what I said.

But really, it's a back and forth because you just go back to something I already replied to when I point out that you're being dishonest.

Dishonest? No. I told you posts ago I wasn't clear on your point. Which we've completely missed with this side adventure we've taken.