The Spoony One has been ejected from That Guy With the Glasses.
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And behind you and to your left you'll see my point, that you clearly missed.JimB said:
(Ah sorry, couldn't be helped).
Clearly if you've been listening I've said repeatedly that making money isn't a bad thing. my favorite part of the movie version of Atlas Shrugged was when Rearden's leftist friend was telling him that his PR problem was that everyone believes that the only thing he cared about is money. Rearden responds with a shocked honest look, "but that IS all I care about."
It's when you start luring customers with that kind of warm veneer of, say for example in the video, having the costumers call your employees by their first names... that's wrong, it's creating the illusion that company genuinely cares about it's costumers and it's workers when it doesn't. It's dishonest. I really don't know how to spell it out any clearer.
If they legit said "we fired him because he was jeopardizing our money" I'd be all, Right on. Instead they gave us a bunch of PR nonsense where they tried to spin it to still uphold the image that it wasn't about money, when clearly it ultimately was.
Now if that isn't clear enough still, I throw up my hands.
Seemed he was more pointing to it as something to avoid, not emulate but still, sadly sort of similar to the situation here though, isn't it?JimB said:
I say there is blame to be passed around. Spoony reacted and has to bare the result of his reaction. Lupa instigated the mentally unwell guy. The fans on both sides probably egged them on and helped themselves to attacking their opponent more directly. The last probably being why neither spoony nor lupa could just block the other, as the fans would just keep egging it on and passing the messages regardless.
No one can deny spoony has fault here. But nor can people deny lupa seemed to be instigating.
The reason the Amazing Atheist/Distressed Watcher was let go in part ego and in part the site. He was upset that even though he was more popular then a number of other contributors, he was being pushed back on the line up because of company politics and his stuff being more darker and tied with more divisive fan base. He felt, since he was more popular and was getting more views, he should be getting placement on the site then some of the others. This being right or wrong is up to opinion I guess, but it does show examples of the sort of content the site is after having an effect and the site's policies outranking popularity. Thus, it adds doubt to claims the decision with spoony was done over matters of financial impact, which has been a common defense of the site in how they handled it. After all, if they let a popular and active contributor go because of differences of opinion regarding site placement and promotion, another popular contributor being let go doesn't have to be solely about money either. Thus why people bring up the Distressed Watcher here.
It's strange that this many people care about TGWTG. Outside of Linkara being a halfway reasonable person who has had a few really good videos, the rest of the site is all about who can ham the most, yell the loudest, and plagiarize unfunny things the most.
What? I'll not comment on his videos being good, because its about personal taste. (My personal taste says that their very, very bad.) But outside of that? If you've heard anything from the people who have worked with him you'd know that behind the camera is an insane person to work with who is basicly a premadona.subtlefuge said:
That said? Sage and Snob are the talented ones on the site, and they don't yell or plagiarize.
I've only seen History of Power Rangers from Linkara (I know he did a let's play of Star Trek Voyager: Elite force, one of my favorite games, but I have not seen it.), A handful of Amazing Atheist videos from when he was on, and some Nostalgia Critic videos.Khazoth said:
The Power Ranger videos were informative and occasionally funny. Doug Walker is categorically awful. Amazing Atheist was uninteresting and pretentious.
I've mentioned my entire experience and opinions about the site (except for its poor design). I could easily be wrong, but its hard to judge someone's character from the content they produce, and its hard to judge someone's content that is not popular enough to be linked to. Mostly I just assumed that a site like this would have very little crossover with TGWTG. It plays in different circles than we do.
This is all really depressing, in two distinct ways:
First, this incident seems to have exposed a web of really unhealthy relationships among the members of Channel Awesome. A psychologist might call them "incestuous," in that the lines between working relationships and personal relationships are so blurry as to be meaningless.
The fact that all of the dirty laundry of what is purported to be a legitimate business is being aired on Twitter shows a real failure of management.
Nearly everyone from the team who's posted on this issue would be subject to firing at any company I've worked at, just for exposing these internal personnel issues to the public.
If you have an employment contract where you work, check it out; this isn't cool with almost any employer.
Spoony may have lit the match with his Twitter nervous breakdown, but, to extend the metaphor, it seems like the offices at CA were piled to the ceiling with oil rags before any of this began.
Second, on the subject of Spoony's behavior:
Maybe only 5% of you will have the experience to understand this, but I know exactly what Noah was feeling when he started imploding on Twitter, and it's scary as hell to watch.
When you're going through it, yes, it feels liberating, if feels like your first taste of "personal authenticity," but it's really the moment when you're furthest from your basic humanity.
I imagine that cold feeling inside, and the strange urge to laugh uncontrollably, from my own experience, is the way sociopaths feel all the time.
People who stay on that path end up on the evening news, referred to by their first, middle and last names on every reference.
I really hope he finds help from some source.
If I hadn't, I'd be dead now.
First, this incident seems to have exposed a web of really unhealthy relationships among the members of Channel Awesome. A psychologist might call them "incestuous," in that the lines between working relationships and personal relationships are so blurry as to be meaningless.
The fact that all of the dirty laundry of what is purported to be a legitimate business is being aired on Twitter shows a real failure of management.
Nearly everyone from the team who's posted on this issue would be subject to firing at any company I've worked at, just for exposing these internal personnel issues to the public.
If you have an employment contract where you work, check it out; this isn't cool with almost any employer.
Spoony may have lit the match with his Twitter nervous breakdown, but, to extend the metaphor, it seems like the offices at CA were piled to the ceiling with oil rags before any of this began.
Second, on the subject of Spoony's behavior:
Maybe only 5% of you will have the experience to understand this, but I know exactly what Noah was feeling when he started imploding on Twitter, and it's scary as hell to watch.
When you're going through it, yes, it feels liberating, if feels like your first taste of "personal authenticity," but it's really the moment when you're furthest from your basic humanity.
I imagine that cold feeling inside, and the strange urge to laugh uncontrollably, from my own experience, is the way sociopaths feel all the time.
People who stay on that path end up on the evening news, referred to by their first, middle and last names on every reference.
I really hope he finds help from some source.
If I hadn't, I'd be dead now.
Doug is okay in short bursts, in my opinion. He runs that hysterical yelling into the ground, which is unfortunate. He has some funny jokes but it tends to just be too much hyperactive noise. Anyway i'd honestly suggest looking up the Cinema Snob, funny guy who actually puts a lot of effort into a lot of videos. Quality and quantity. He dolls out money in his off time to buy his friends tickets to the movies so they can do midnight movie reviews. His early non-snob stuff suffered from Spoony Syndrome , but he's grown past that.subtlefuge said:
Site has some talented people that suffer from too many shared faults. I wonder if its an individual fault or because of a mandate they get from bossman Walker.
The Distressed Watcher fame comes from being the youtube Amazing Atheist. His videos are HATE rants about touchy subjects that divide people. He resolved his hissyfit about where his videos were put by doing crappier work. That and he talked smack about other producers like Linkara. To top it off, the flame hate he attracted didn?t sit well with advertisers and he was kicked out. The number of radical fans is out weighted with people that want entertainment.runic knight said:
So the CA statement about Noa sounds perfectly normal an logic. He didn?t get his crap together when asked to and the disciplinary action did not produce a change in attitude. So, better to cut loses.
For example: good thing CA let go that Amazing Atheist radical clown when it did. His crazy attitude made him self-immolate when he started ranting to a rape victim that she deserved it and wished she got raped again. That doesn?t attract viewers. Quite the opposite.
Please point out where I said either of those things.CriticKitten said:
But okay, I'll elucidate. I think that of the four people in this conspiracy, the one who has shown the least regard for his own source of income is Mr. Antwiler, not Ms. Pregler or Ms. Christine. I think that of the people involved who have demonstrated restrained, considered, adult behavior, Mr. Antwiler, again, comes off the worst. I think that if the only possible explanation for his termination is that one of the involved parties is simply too stupid to know what's good for him, then there is only one person on Mr. Antwiler's team who needs to screw up, whereas under this conspiracy theory there are two people who both have to be stupid in the same direction.
Occam's Razor states that the theory which contains the fewest assumptions is the more likely to be correct. Based simply on the number of participants in each faction of this "the women of Channel Awesome are all secretly united under the leadership of his ex-girlfriend to get him fired" theory, the fewest assumptions are made when the blame is placed on Mr. Antwiler.
I could say the same about your opinion of your reading comprehension.CriticKitten said:
Sorry, man. When you start using words other than your own to explain yourself, it tends to muddy the waters.SaneAmongInsane said:
Everyone calls everyone by his given name in America today; I think I'm the only person in this thread who has consistently referred to him as Mr. Antwiler rather than Noah or Spoony. That's not a lure on the part of the company. It's just the way people speak to each other nowadays.SaneAmongInsane said:
You've been reasonably clear the entire time. I just disagree with you.SaneAmongInsane said:
When you engage in the behavior you object to, you are not excused from the criticism you'd been leveling at them. You have only earned your place among the targets of your ire.runic knight said:
In the effort to keep this thread rolling as far as we can... (seriously whats the longest thread on escapist? we should try and break it.)JimB said:
What if you're Batman?
A few things I am not a fan of either Spony or Lupa, I have nothing against them, but their video's never clicked with me. However while reading this forum s(I read every post and looked at most of the embeded link)I tend to think people are being to harsh on Lupa. What Spony said was inexcusable, and the fact that she took a month to bring it up dose not mean that she was in some sinister considerably. Maybe she just found out about that particular tweet or maybe she finally had enough of misogyny. Perhaps it took her a while to come forward because of fear of negative backlash that always comes when a person particuraly a woman calls out misogyny. The fact that Spony apologized to JO and JO never made a big deal about it doesn't mean that Lupa did not have the right to make an issue out of it. Spony's rape tweet constituted sexual harassment and since it was in public it probably constituted hostile environment sexual harassment meaning that the tweet (as well as others that Spony made) made her a victim of the harassment even if not aimed at her. Just like if in office someone publicly makes advances on another co-worker and an observer is made uncomfortable (which to be clear rape comments should make people uncomfortable) they have the right to complain about it. If I was a boss and I heard an employee say what Spony tweeted I would fire them on the spot, and if I was an employee I would certainly complain to my boss about that even if the person making the comment was my best friend and I hated the person the comment was directed to, wrong is wrong.
Despite this a person also has a right and maybe even an obligation to speak out against sexual harassment and misogyny. The fact the person making the comment is unwell dose not either excuse the comment or change Lupa's right/obligation to speak out against it if she found it as disgusting as she (and I) seemed to. Just being quiet in the face of sexual harassment and misogyny only guarantees they continue.
Next there is a difference between Lupa's animal abuse tweet and even JO's apparent homophobia. While neither is right there is a difference between making a quick tweet about animal abuse and sending an target all be-it supposedly humors rape threat. Not only is animal abuse a very different thing than rape, there is also a difference between connecting the dismissive view of rape that comment contained and targeting it at a particular person. Even JO's history of homophobia is different. I have worked with homophobic people and I tend no to be friends with those people unless they change their views (like JO seems to have done) however, I can tolerate those people as long as they are not mean to their gay/lesbian coworkers. If they keep their homophobia to themselves or at the very least don't make it uncomfortable for others I can live with their antiquated views. I could not however work with a person who makes rape jokes directed at a coworker even if the coworker dose not do anything about it. Being around people like that makes me uncomfortable. People have the right to not be harassed by coworkers or be in an hostile environment.
About Spony's girlfriend. The evednece presented above that she was involved with Lupa and there is a conspiracy is week. Lupa defended her because people were being unfair to her. If you break up with someone it is not your fault if they don't take it well and its wrong for the person you broke up with to harass you. Perhaps its OK to talk some shit with friends and its OK if your friends don't want to be friends with your ex, but you don't get to send nasty letters to that person or say mean things about them on twitter, and Lupa was right to defend her from people saying bad things about her.
In conclusion we need to support people who speak out against misogyny and sexual harassment. There can be disagreements about some feminist perspective (I disagreed with a lot in trops v woman)however, what Spony said was indefensible. Now dose this make Spony a bad person of course not. Dose this make what lordkat said OK obviously not. I could write a diatribe against him but it seems unnecessary since no one here seems to be defending him. I have no way to diagnose Spony's mental state. If he needs help I hope he get it, however he still must bare the consequences of his actions. CA is a business and yes it would be nice if they could fix whatever problem he has, but they can't. You can't just ignore someones behavior because they are depressed. I am autistic and I have said some less than polite things because as an autistic person I don't always get the social niceties, and when I get called out for that sometimes it pisses me off, but people still have the right to call me out especially if I am engaging in sexual harassment (which I never do).
Despite this a person also has a right and maybe even an obligation to speak out against sexual harassment and misogyny. The fact the person making the comment is unwell dose not either excuse the comment or change Lupa's right/obligation to speak out against it if she found it as disgusting as she (and I) seemed to. Just being quiet in the face of sexual harassment and misogyny only guarantees they continue.
Next there is a difference between Lupa's animal abuse tweet and even JO's apparent homophobia. While neither is right there is a difference between making a quick tweet about animal abuse and sending an target all be-it supposedly humors rape threat. Not only is animal abuse a very different thing than rape, there is also a difference between connecting the dismissive view of rape that comment contained and targeting it at a particular person. Even JO's history of homophobia is different. I have worked with homophobic people and I tend no to be friends with those people unless they change their views (like JO seems to have done) however, I can tolerate those people as long as they are not mean to their gay/lesbian coworkers. If they keep their homophobia to themselves or at the very least don't make it uncomfortable for others I can live with their antiquated views. I could not however work with a person who makes rape jokes directed at a coworker even if the coworker dose not do anything about it. Being around people like that makes me uncomfortable. People have the right to not be harassed by coworkers or be in an hostile environment.
About Spony's girlfriend. The evednece presented above that she was involved with Lupa and there is a conspiracy is week. Lupa defended her because people were being unfair to her. If you break up with someone it is not your fault if they don't take it well and its wrong for the person you broke up with to harass you. Perhaps its OK to talk some shit with friends and its OK if your friends don't want to be friends with your ex, but you don't get to send nasty letters to that person or say mean things about them on twitter, and Lupa was right to defend her from people saying bad things about her.
In conclusion we need to support people who speak out against misogyny and sexual harassment. There can be disagreements about some feminist perspective (I disagreed with a lot in trops v woman)however, what Spony said was indefensible. Now dose this make Spony a bad person of course not. Dose this make what lordkat said OK obviously not. I could write a diatribe against him but it seems unnecessary since no one here seems to be defending him. I have no way to diagnose Spony's mental state. If he needs help I hope he get it, however he still must bare the consequences of his actions. CA is a business and yes it would be nice if they could fix whatever problem he has, but they can't. You can't just ignore someones behavior because they are depressed. I am autistic and I have said some less than polite things because as an autistic person I don't always get the social niceties, and when I get called out for that sometimes it pisses me off, but people still have the right to call me out especially if I am engaging in sexual harassment (which I never do).
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "Spoony Syndrome", do you mean they were made famous by Spoony?Khazoth said:
You do know the history of how Brad Jones aka the Cinema Snob started out and how he got to where he is right now, right?
The man has said so himself many times, he started as a pretty obscure reviewer on youtube, the kind of guys who barley have a bit above 1000 subscribers if they even have a 1000 subscribers at all. What (or rather who) catapulted his career was when Spoony linked to one of his reviews on his website The Spoony Experiment, pointing him out as one of his favorite reviewers on the internet which brought him a ton of new subscribers.
Then when Brad was banned from youtube Spoony hosted his videos on The Spoony Experiment until Brad made his own website and then Brad was eventually picked up by TGWTG and the rest is history.
Brad himself has said many times he owes his place right now to Spoony and without him he may never have gotten to where he is now.
Regardless of what you may think now of Spoony or his work, he wasn't always a gigantic asshole but I do agree on Brad being one the best if not the best reviewer on TGWTG.
this sounds, well, more about why you dislike the Distressed Watcher then much else. I was just covering why some people would bring him up in this situation, that being where viewers and popularity could be ignored for other issues or reasons. Though given his fame on youtube and the viewers on the distressed watcher vids, he was maintaining presence to be seen as funding. And even if his entire fanbase was the asshats of the internet (they aren't, but for the sake of discussion lets pretend they were/are), he was still roughly as popular and viewed as the top billings on the site, and since the site gets money through views, that is important. How many advertisers were being upset by him, I don't know, and while that certainly would be a good factor, again, I kinda have to ask where this info is obtained from.Teleportman said:
I don't know much about his backtalking other producers, rape victim ranting or the rest, though I am curious where this info is found as well. I wouldn't say his vids on youtube are hate rants though. That seems, well, just kinda stupid. Angry, certainly, but they don't come off as hate so much as outrage. I don't know, maybe his being an outspoken atheist has the stuff viewed as hate, but his vids really just come off as outrage or sarcastic based around current events, political or in the news mostly, then hate filled. Acting incredulous and pissed about things like legal decisions some states have been doing lately or a nazi-inspired faction gaining power in greece is not Hate to me.
back on the noah topic though, I never said they weren't justified in letting him go (that we wasn't solely to blame here yes, but not they weren't justified), merely that people saying it was a matter of a business being a business and worrying about the bottom line does have it's flaws and that was why people mentioned the DW stuff in the first place.
By spoony syndrome I mean releasing a great number of videos where they do nothing but an unedited v-log infront of a camera while sitting on their couch alone. The only videos Spoony releases frequently. Its a very east video make and a very boring video to watch.Noxogz said:
I agree that Spoony influenced a lot of people, but the fact is the past year or two he simply just faded and seemed to stop trying. His videos basicly mimicked what people on TGWTG were doing. (Lots of being loud and obnoxious, lots of cameos, lots of 'characters.') Spoony made a big impact on the community then promptly gave up on it.
Ya, I just found out about this whole episode so i still got some catching up to do... Though starting with the initial spooney tweet... frankly i feel the reaction to it is overblown because when it comes down to it, reading it reads like it was meant to be taken as a joke. Its crude humor; its offensive but its meant to be humor. Frankly i've seen worst stuff on adult swim. Really these kinds of jokes may be offensive or in bad taste, but they are not worth getting angry over; worth getting annoyed by, worth ignoring, but not getting angry. If he had made such a reference in a more angry or malicious context, i would be angry, but not in the context of a crude joke.
Though that being said, i still have yet to see the whole messy exchange that went on between him and Lupa; so that i can't comment on... Also i don't follow his twitter so i can't comment on his behavior for the past months
Also about lordKat and his comments, it seems he did issue a lengthy and genuine sounding apology on his site for everything he said about Spooney and the fans
Though that being said, i still have yet to see the whole messy exchange that went on between him and Lupa; so that i can't comment on... Also i don't follow his twitter so i can't comment on his behavior for the past months
Also about lordKat and his comments, it seems he did issue a lengthy and genuine sounding apology on his site for everything he said about Spooney and the fans
You nor any of his fans are paying anything. The people that place their advertisment on his site/videos are paying. You nor the fans have spend a single cent on his videos.malestrithe said:
So instead of just.. you know.. stop watching him and thus cut into his income and showing him that you dont support his behaviour you/the fans keep on watching him, keep on generating revenue and show him that no matter how he behaves at the end of the day he will have his money.
Sorry something doesnt add up here.. if one doenst agree with how he treats his so called fans then that one simply should not watch his videos..
Again no one has paid the man a single cent. Generating add revenue for simply watching his videos is not the same as investing money into his videos.
The fans have no right to complain about how he treats them either. If they take his abuse but continue to watch his videos then they deserve it for being stupid enough to return to his site and generate add money for him.
Should he treat his fans better? Yes he should, but he wont change until people show him that they dont support his BS.
If people had simply stopped watching his videos it would have send a way more clearer and stronger message then just going on his twitter and pestering him about getting some help and then wondering why the guy lashes out like some charly sheen clone.
well then you havnt exactlaly seen all of whats on the site have you? (some I'd recomend)subtlefuge said:
Nostalga Chick is my favorite reveiwer as her videos are actually funny and interesting, as opoastes to "sumarize..yell at the camera" Nostalga critic tends to fall into
Todd in the shadows (pop music and other music related stuff) is also really good to hear him rip into idiotic pop songs
Oancitizen (brows held high) while he reveiws "art" films and such that I'm not familar with/interested in..he's enjoyable to watch so they become interesting...in fact I'd day thats the difference between NC and Oan
if youre videos and interesting and presented well then you can make an obscure art film interesting for me too see
however somthing I'd be dying to see (a childhood film) get reveiwd..can fall flat if you just trudge through it in a boring way (Nostalga critics reveiw of ritchie rich)