The state of Games Workshop

[Zontar]

1) Failing to recognise the board game revival

2) Discontinuing their specialist games

This isn't really true at all, on the contrary one of the reasons last year was their best one ever is because they're riding that wave. They've already brought back quite a bit and that's before we get into what they've already announced (like the return of Epic and Battlefleet Gothic).

This would have been a valid observation two or three years ago, but now it's a bit of a dated one.

4) Pricing: there probably isn't anything I can say that hasn't already been said.

I've said it before many times but I'll say it again since you've probably not seen any of those threads, but GW's pricing is about as standard as it gets. The only real difference is that it sells its stuff in larger numbers then other companies (5-10 vs 1-5 for things like Infinity), and that unlike FFG its stuff isn't made as a single pre-painted piece.

I like Armada and X-wing a much as the next player, but I'm not going to pretend it's cheaper.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

1) Failing to recognise the board game revival

2) Discontinuing their specialist games

This isn't really true at all, on the contrary one of the reasons last year was their best one ever is because they're riding that wave. They've already brought back quite a bit and that's before we get into what they've already announced (like the return of Epic and Battlefleet Gothic).

This would have been a valid observation two or three years ago, but now it's a bit of a dated one.

4) Pricing: there probably isn't anything I can say that hasn't already been said.

I've said it before many times but I'll say it again since you've probably not seen any of those threads, but GW's pricing is about as standard as it gets. The only real difference is that it sells its stuff in larger numbers then other companies (5-10 vs 1-5 for things like Infinity), and that unlike FFG its stuff isn't made as a single pre-painted piece.

I like Armada and X-wing a much as the next player, but I'm not going to pretend it's cheaper.

Battletech or Bolt Action aren't cheap either.

 

[Zontar]

Battletech or Bolt Action aren't cheap either.

I hear that, been collecting the different battletech board games and my god is it hard to find them for a reasonable price.

 

[DarthCoercis]

The new edition of Necromunda is great. Rules are well written, the models are nice and the terrain is decent. Would have been nice of them to include some cardboard buildings like in the old one.

Hopefully they'll do a new edition of Mordheim in 2018.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

This isn't really true at all, on the contrary one of the reasons last year was their best one ever is because they're riding that wave. They've already brought back quite a bit and that's before we get into what they've already announced (like the return of Epic and Battlefleet Gothic).

This would have been a valid observation two or three years ago, but now it's a bit of a dated one.

Spot on. With the caveat that the specialist game lines were dropped prior to GWs money grubbing phase (still ongoing) because they weren't profitable enough in the board game extinction of the late 90's and early 00's. Their deaths had everything to do with a failing market for board games (something that would not be redeemed until the late 00's) and the increasing profitability of the Warhammer line at the period. As you point out Zontar, these specialist games are now making a comeback, when board games are once more booming.

I've said it before many times but I'll say it again since you've probably not seen any of those threads, but GW's pricing is about as standard as it gets. The only real difference is that it sells its stuff in larger numbers then other companies (5-10 vs 1-5 for things like Infinity), and that unlike FFG its stuff isn't made as a single pre-painted piece.

I like Armada and X-wing a much as the next player, but I'm not going to pretend it's cheaper.

GW is not standard in terms of pricing, they are the upper price range of miniature games. Pretty much all other games beat 40k and AoS out. My preferred example is Flames of War, the premium priced WW2 miniature game, which still comes in at anywhere between 100-300 USD cheaper for a tournament list then a 40k list (even cheaper now that they've lowered the tournament points level). And X-wing and Armada are not quite comparable games. You can have a playable list for 80 bucks if you're economical about it and don't intend to get into competitive tournaments. Their pull lies in the constantly shifting meta, which means that X-wing will be more expensive then 40k over time, if you assume a 40k player will only ever use one list.

 

[jademunky]

first 15 books in the heresy series

15? Goddamn!

Now I know what the Star Wars EU novel people are doing now that they need work.

 

[Thaluikhain]

GW is not standard in terms of pricing, they are the upper price range of miniature games. Pretty much all other games beat 40k and AoS out. My preferred example is Flames of War, the premium priced WW2 miniature game, which still comes in at anywhere between 100-300 USD cheaper for a tournament list then a 40k list (even cheaper now that they've lowered the tournament points level). And X-wing and Armada are not quite comparable games. You can have a playable list for 80 bucks if you're economical about it and don't intend to get into competitive tournaments. Their pull lies in the constantly shifting meta, which means that X-wing will be more expensive then 40k over time, if you assume a 40k player will only ever use one list.

Varies quite a bit though. A Sisters army of all metal models (and limited range of those) is quite pricey (hell, you can still get the old metal guard), but on the other end of the scale you could get the Betrayal at Calth boxed game and get a SM army relatively cheaply.

 

[Queen Michael]

first 15 books in the heresy series

15? Goddamn!

Now I know what the Star Wars EU novel people are doing now that they need work.

There are even more than that. Over 40, last time I checked. (Well, "last time I checked..." It's not like it can stop being over 40.)

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Varies quite a bit though. A Sisters army of all metal models (and limited range of those) is quite pricey (hell, you can still get the old metal guard), but on the other end of the scale you could get the Betrayal at Calth boxed game and get a SM army relatively cheaply.

Of course, and that's the case with pretty much all miniature games. But let's go for the cheapest possible army that's tournament legal for 40k and FoW:
Flames of War: 10 Panther D tanks (45USD per platoon of 5) and a platoon of panzergrenadiers (45 USD) will set you back about 135 USD, assuming you buy straight from Battlefront. From that you will have 3rd SS Panzerkompanie list at slightly over 1750 points (3rd ed pointing) with 1,5 Panther platoons, 2 HQ tanks and a full platoon of panzergrenadiers. Not exactly a great list, but fully serviceable if you face a Soviet armor list. This is roughly equivalent to getting the 80 USD starter boxes and adding in a support platoon of your choice.

40k: If I get the premium deal for my Space Marines, I get the Dark Imperium box and split half with a friend who wants to do Chaos. at 80 USD I am then roughly halfway to a 1500 point list, with 3 meager tac squads, 1 minimal assault squad and a decent HQ. Adding a dreadnought and a tank will probably put me close to the point limit, especially if I kit everything out to the max with upgrades. But that's 57 USD for the predator and another 46 USD for the dreadnought. So that's over 190 USD for a decent Space Marine list.

In my own comparison I had a 1000 point Space Marine army that comprised 2 tac squads, 1 devestator squad, 1 assault squad, 1 rhino, 1 dreadnought and a Captain. That's 280 dollars just to get to the bare minimum needed for the smallest games. For comparison my Flames of War army comprised 1500 points and had 2 Udarny Strelkovy companies, a anti-tank gun company, 5 T-34s, 3 ISU-152s and 8 Katyusha rocket launchers and that came in at roughly 200 dollars, with enough spare models to comfortably get me from 1500 pts to the tournament limit of 1750. On top of that FoW allows for proxying 1/3rd of your army in any Battlefront sanctioned tournament, as long as the proxy is a model of the same unit/vehicle and to scale, which means that I could have cheaped out by getting Zvezda or Peter Pig miniatures for my tanks and Katyushas instead, which would have saved me some 40-50 dollars.

For Tournament legal lists (if we accept official tournament limits as the "standard" game mode your list should be built for) Warhammer is always the most expensive by a fair margarin. The comparison with FoW is very unfavorable in terms of price to game presence impact, and FoW is generally considered to be really expensive by military miniature games standards. If we compare to a game like X-wing, where you can get a functional list for around 100 USD, 40k is downright robbery in comparison. And that's even before we get into things like the premium price on GWs own modelling and painting supplies when compared to competitors like Vallejo, Army Painter etc..

 

[rosac]

Have they brought back squarebase warhammer yet? No.

Well fuck 'em.

 

[renegade7]

In about ten years, Games Workshop is just going to be making all their money selling $20,000 models to a single rich person.