The Story Snob

[Internet Kraken]

You're missing the point. Both games had terrible stories, bot good gameplay. One of them, however, didn't constantly bring up it's story and ruin the game in doing so. If you think an RPG should always have a lot of story, then Tales of Symphonia was doomed fro0m the start. In my opinion though there is nothing that says an RPG needs to have a better story than any other game.

Actually, I was avoiding the point on purpose. Addressing it would only bring about a battle of opinions, which is a waste of time.
Honestly, I disagree with your story issues about ToS, but there's no point in arguing about it.

Then why did you make that comment in the first place? Seems rather pointless to say my logic is flawed, reveal that this is because of your opinion, then refuse to actually discuss opinions.

 

[Madmanonfire]

You're missing the point. Both games had terrible stories, bot good gameplay. One of them, however, didn't constantly bring up it's story and ruin the game in doing so. If you think an RPG should always have a lot of story, then Tales of Symphonia was doomed fro0m the start. In my opinion though there is nothing that says an RPG needs to have a better story than any other game.

Actually, I was avoiding the point on purpose. Addressing it would only bring about a battle of opinions, which is a waste of time.
Honestly, I disagree with your story issues about ToS, but there's no point in arguing about it.

Then why did you make that comment in the first place? Seems rather pointless to say my logic is flawed, reveal that this is because of your opinion, then refuse to actually discuss opinions.

When did I say it was because of my opinion? RPG's are generally more story-driven than shooters. I just found it funny because you said a game from a different genre had an advantage over an RPG because there was more story to the RPG.
It's kinda like saying a racing game has an advantage over a platformer because racing games don't force you to jump all the time.

 

[Aurgelmir]

Experienced Points: The Story Snob

You don't have to put a story in your game, but if you do, try to make it not suck.

Read Full Article

While you can take out the story of a game, the opposite is not true. Look at FFXIII and how badly they misunderstood the power of gameplay, even though they seemed to have a decent story.

 

[MGlBlaze]

The Sonic Unleashed troll attempt kinda fell flat here. I never played or paid much attention to the game, so I didn't know either way. Then again, I probably should have gotten the joke anyway looking at the disjointed stories the other 3D sonic games have.

I agree with the article, though. I also believe the people who did the "go watch a movie" taunts fall under "Fan Dumb". It's like the 'Don't Like, Don't Read" crowd. Ignore a problem and it will never be fixed.

Yes games are about gameplay, but I like the story to actually make sense. One example of a story point I hated was 'Chopper's death in Ace Combat 5. There were a multitude of ways where he could have either survived or ejecting over the city wouldn't matter, but no.

And if the game can't have a decent story, just don't have much of one. Look at the main Mario series outside of the RPGs. The story never really goes beyond "Princess Peach has been kidnapped by Bowser again. Go kick his ass." but since the story isn't really there anyway, it doesn't matter. Besides, Super Mario Galaxy did have some story to it with Roselina. Then again, Mario is a very long-running franchise and we've learned more about their characters through the RPGs, so maybe that wouldn't translate well to other IPs.

I'm reminded of an article I think you wrote about shoe-horning multiplayer into the games. Or perhaps even a shoe-horned single player. "Do it right, or not at all."

 

[Internet Kraken]

You're missing the point. Both games had terrible stories, bot good gameplay. One of them, however, didn't constantly bring up it's story and ruin the game in doing so. If you think an RPG should always have a lot of story, then Tales of Symphonia was doomed fro0m the start. In my opinion though there is nothing that says an RPG needs to have a better story than any other game.

Actually, I was avoiding the point on purpose. Addressing it would only bring about a battle of opinions, which is a waste of time.
Honestly, I disagree with your story issues about ToS, but there's no point in arguing about it.

Then why did you make that comment in the first place? Seems rather pointless to say my logic is flawed, reveal that this is because of your opinion, then refuse to actually discuss opinions.

When did I say it was because of my opinion? RPG's are generally more story-driven than shooters. I just found it funny because you said a game from a different genre had an advantage over an RPG because there was more story to the RPG.
It's kinda like saying a racing game has an advantage over a platformer because racing games don't force you to jump all the time.

You're basically saying my logic was flawed because Tales of Symphonia didn't have a bad story and therefore would not have been better if it had been reduced. At least that's what I think you're saying, otherwise you're not making any sense. My original point was that I didn't think either Gears of War or Tales of Symphonia had good story, but Gears of War was still good because it didn't constantly shove the story in your face. I was saying the RPG was bad because it had more of a bad story. If it had more of a good story, I wouldn't have said that. The whole point of this article was talking about how to much of a bad story can ruin a game.

 

[auronvi]

Lol... Sonic Unleashed...

Good one...

 

[geizr]

[...]then don't try to build a fifty hour story, build a world that will sustain 50 hours worth of player-built narratives.

Really good way of putting it. Wish I'd put that in the column.

This is true, and where the world of FF13 went wrong in my opinion.

I love story, and narrative, but worlds never seem to be able to sustain them long enough

This is probably one of the few really valid complaints that I have seen regarding Final Fantasy XIII, and it's actually true of a lot of games. For many games with long stories, the different game elements and the world of the game simply don't sustain the momentum of the story. Often, the game just devolves into grinding tedium, with the only point of simply leveling to deal with the next set of monsters. At such moments, the story is pushed to the side and doesn't pick back up until the next cut-scene or quest/dilemma; the story of the game is just not integral enough with the gameplay to create a singular gaming experience.

 

[Madmanonfire]

You're basically saying my logic was flawed because Tales of Symphonia didn't have a bad story and therefore would not have been better if it had been reduced. At least that's what I think you're saying, otherwise you're not making any sense. My original point was that I didn't think either Gears of War or Tales of Symphonia had good story, but Gears of War was still good because it didn't constantly shove the story in your face. I was saying the RPG was bad because it had more of a bad story. If it had more of a good story, I wouldn't have said that. The whole point of this article was talking about how to much of a bad story can ruin a game.

All I'm trying to say is that it's typical for a game like Gears of War to shove less story in your face than a game like ToS, which makes it a little silly to say. I admitted I disagree, but I'm not including that in my reasoning.

 

[Internet Kraken]

You're basically saying my logic was flawed because Tales of Symphonia didn't have a bad story and therefore would not have been better if it had been reduced. At least that's what I think you're saying, otherwise you're not making any sense. My original point was that I didn't think either Gears of War or Tales of Symphonia had good story, but Gears of War was still good because it didn't constantly shove the story in your face. I was saying the RPG was bad because it had more of a bad story. If it had more of a good story, I wouldn't have said that. The whole point of this article was talking about how to much of a bad story can ruin a game.

All I'm trying to say is that it's typical for a game like Gears of War to shove less story in your face than a game like ToS, which makes it a little silly to say. I admitted I disagree, but I'm not including that in my reasoning.

And why does this matter? My point was that the game was worse because it had more story that was bad. It doesn't matter if it's typical for FPS games to have less story than an RPG. What matters is that because it had less story it was better. I'm not trying to argue that Epic made a conscious decision to have little story in Gears of Wart. The second game tends to disagree with me there. But in the end it did have little story which allowed the game to be saved by the game play, while Tales of Symphonia didn't do that. What genre these games belonged to is irrelevant. Why you are arguing against what I said just because one game is an FPS and the other is an RPG is beyond me, since that doesn't have anything to do with my point that a bad story doesn't necessarily ruin a game.

 

[daemon37]

I almost ragequitted. When I got to the Sonic Unleashed part it was almost as distracting as if I was at an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting and Osama Bin Laden were to burst in the door carrying a beer keg and an AK47.

 

[Maverickly]

I know Final Fantasy XIII is supposed to have a grand story, but I find myself inching through that game. The importance of stories is always evident, but I have played many games where story is shelled out but I had immense fun (Just Cause 2, I'm looking at you). The point I'm trying to make, I guess, is that there seems to be a balance board in the game universe between gameplay and story, and any game can be good without balancing the two.

The trolling with Sonic Unleashed brings up a bigger point, in my opinion. If you aren't going to maintain a story, why make only half the game worth playing anyway?

 

[mechanixis]

Ha, the Sonic Unleashed trick was excellent. That's like a rocket to the glowing-red weak-point of the Escapist community.

But yeah, I'm totally with you. I gave up playing Just Cause 2 after a few hours. My friend who lent it to me couldn't understand it - it was, on paper, a perfect formula of sandbox chaos. But I told him I couldn't get into it because there simply wasn't enough story or context for me to buy into it.

 

[whaleswiththumbs]

Forgot to mention Grand Theft Auto IV.

The reason the story is so good here is because it flows so well with the game play. For example, I decided to play in such a way that I could complete all the side missions without finishing the main quest line... but no matter how you play, the main story catches up with you in surprising ways.

I think it more has to do with Niko actually being relatable, or atleast more so than the trilogy's(i'm probably the only person to call them that) complete psychopaths. In a completely non-ad way, check this out:.. er actually i had an article somewhere, by someone else, that would fit perfectly with this, it even goes through how Niko is the only truely rounded character in the whole of GTA-games, but i can't find it. Just imagine it. Unless you also have it, coincidence..

 

[Madmanonfire]

And why does this matter? My point was that the game was worse because it had more story that was bad. It doesn't matter if it's typical for FPS games to have less story than an RPG. What matters is that because it had less story it was better. I'm not trying to argue that Epic made a conscious decision to have little story in Gears of Wart. The second game tends to disagree with me there. But in the end it did have little story which allowed the game to be saved by the game play, while Tales of Symphonia didn't do that. What genre these games belonged to is irrelevant. Why you are arguing against what I said just because one game is an FPS and the other is an RPG is beyond me, since that doesn't have anything to do with my point that a bad story doesn't necessarily ruin a game.

That bolded sentence is the silly part that I'm addressing. That's it. Combined with that sentence, genre is completely relevant. You can't just compare those two games so easily.
It's probably beyond you because you're thinking way beyond the simple point I was making.
Keep arguing if you want, but I'm done because this is going nowhere.

 

[Baradiel]

I would much rather see developers focus on the mechanics of the gameplay and leave story far behind.

Just Cause 2 sounds like your wet dream then, sir or madam

Can't agree more! Everything about Just Cause 2's story is there to take the piss out of itself. The main villain is a midget in a lime-green shiny suit with Ninja bodyguards. That basically says it all. Avalanche knew any attempt to make a serious story fit to their game would utterly fail, so they just went crazy with it and made it (for me) the most enjoyable story I've heard in a long time.

Sorry, kinda went off on one.

OT, story is important, but some games are better off without it. Battlefield: Bad Company and it's sequel are prime examples. Bad Company 1 was the first Battlefield game with a singleplayer, and the aim of said singleplayer was to chase crates of gold across the globe.

Then they tried to make the sequels more serious, and it failed. The characters weren't right for it, for a start. The story itself was ridiculous in the extreme. Basically, it failed.

 

[VonBrewskie]

"ragequit". I think that's an awesome word. It definitely caught my attention when you said "Sonic Unleashed" in reference to good stories. hahha! Awesome. Glad I finished the article. Good stuff man. I am a fan of good stories too, and I think you made some great points about the nature of concise story telling. I can't wait to see a game come out that has the emotional impact of "Gone With the Wind" or "On the Waterfront". I want to see the games industry make some real gems of expression and creativity; I just think you need to have a lot of space marines come first, 'cause they're gonna make that dough and get the next generation's noggins spinning once they go, "yeah that was fun. but I want MORE..."

 

[Acting like a FOOL]

Totally nailed me on the Sonic Unleashed trick, you jerk. Also, yes, yes a thousand times yes. I want to wrap this column around me like a warm, safe, blanket and tell myself everything will be ok.

Hey game developers, when it comes to story less is always more! Portal, Shadow of the Colossus, Fighting Games, etc.

If that seems like a cop out to you, then don't try to build a fifty hour story, build a world that will sustain 50 hours worth of player-built narratives.

that's exactly how I feel! If a game is going to be story driven the gameplay has to mesh with it and the plot and characters have to inspire the player to put time in it.

and "Crunchy English", I'm a writer working to become a game developer, so I'm trying my best to wrap my arms around you like a blanket and tell you everything's alright...in a TOTALLY NON-CREEPY WAY.

 

[Vetala]

Planescape: Torment-level stories with Shadow of the Colossus-level emotional impact

now why did you say that ? it's the most cruelest thing i've ever read on the escapist.