The Story

[jono793]

As usual, Yahtzee hits the nail on the head. Games are an interactive storytelling medium. Without your own in-game actions visibly driving the story, why would you not just read a book?

A couple of ways games do interactive stories well:

Oblivion (and predecessor Morrowind) had a surprisingly expansive library of in-game literature. ?The Real Benezia? alone weighed in at over 100 pages, and the rest included a veritable treasure trove of short-stories. Of course, you had to actually stop playing in order to read any of it, and the energy wastefulness of reading a book on my 1080 plasma screen wasn?t lost on me..

As for GTA, that series actually has one of the most seamless integrations of story and gameplay I?ve ever seen; not the cut scenes, but the radio stations. Those channels give you a rolling commentary on what the game world is, what it?s all about, who the big players are, and it does it all that without interrupting the gameplay. They also serve to distract you from the fact you?re commuting in virtual traffic.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I always liked how Ico and Shadow of the Colossus handled their story. Though all there really is is backstory which serves as a catalyst to propel you into the game, you are still presented with visuals that pique your interest in the gameworld's mysteries.

Though, I wouldn't want cutscenes to go the way of the dodo either. I'd just miss them way too much. Half-Life 2 was brilliant in how it made gameplay and story work with eachother instead of against eachother. But I don't think such a set up would work for all games. Also, games are probably the only medium in which a story can be told in a meriad of ways. And I kinda like that I can choose between either a cutscene-heavy game like Uncharted and Resident Evil 4, or a more involved approach like Dragon Age: Origins or Mass Effect.

 

[RabbidKuriboh]

nothing that hasn't been said already

one thing i would like to point out, it shouldn't matter how a well written story is told, sure games have many unique ways of conveying a narative but always going off against non interactive methods can be annoying

sometimes dialogue and wise use of cutscenes can greatly improve a game's story

 

[bjj hero]

Disagree, we like getting locked out of and into choices, cuz we actually BUY the game, spend our money on ONE game, and want to be rewarded for multiple play thrus. Don't be so cocky and think that since u get to play lots of games that we all do. It would be dumb if your choices in dialogue had no effect. If that was the case, why even have them??? Gosh i dont like this guy.

Is "we" like the royal we? I buy my games and there are very few games I give multiple play throughs. I have a family, a career, other interests and a life away from my console and PC. I am not 16 with time to game 8 hours a day, gamers are individuals with different lifestyles.

If I get a satisfying play through where I feel like I have experienced all a game has to offer then do I need a second play through? Multiple play throughs via withholding content feels like a cheap way to extend the life of a title.

On a seperate note, you are posting on a forum, you have plenty of time to write your post. Were you really in such a hurry that you needed to use "u" and "cuz"?

 

[Ed.]

So apparently everyone but Yahtzee had their hands full but on week 2 they finally had to deliver *something* so the series doesn't get killed before it started?

Works for me!

Actually, a bit of rotation might be good. I initially was fascinated by Extra Consideration before even reading it, for the simple fact that three big influential characters were supposed to discuss something together, but it might be good to exchange parts of the cast every now and then if a special topic comes up where they might not have much to say about. For example, was a good idea to bring guys from Unskippable into this.

Keep it up, Extra Consideration is one of the most interesting things for me to read on The Escapist!

this also if it means we get more articles of it.

also I would be fine with it branching if that's how the convo rolls

 

[Taxman1]

The Dot Hack games and most jrpgs are a victim of this. I would be in a field slashing monsters up and then a cutscene appears. Most of them are completely irrelevant. Though I rather have it in the middle arc of a game rather than the beginning because it turns me off usually.

Off Topic: I think we are going to see a lot of members now that would say "Oh I didn't like PST, because the story and gameplay didn't mix well."

 

[dunnace]

For me some of the most compelling storytelling was No More Heroes, but probably because it was confusing as hell and required research on my part. Same goes for the MGS series. For some reason despite those games being utterly incomprehensible the first time you play them after I go and do the research it becomes suddenly very exciting and well written. Credit to NMH in particular, which has a much larger meta-storyline flowing through the whole thing.

As for storytelling games that were straightforward and good, Oddworld gets my vote with their twisted fable approach and Brutal Legend packed a hell of a punch with witty dialogue and a mix of conversations and action. It worked really well, and I keep having to give Schafer credit for his accomplishment with that.

And for unique storytelling, Heavy Rain was certainly interesting, but a real one off for me. If you were to try it again, unless the plot was really good, I'd probably hate it. That game was essentially a branching path collection of cutscenes, quite good cutscenes with some bad voice acting, but never the less the whole thing is a long film you have to constantly occasionally interactive with. I found it interesting as I played it with a friend and we um'd and ah'd over who we thought the killer was, but the actual game with only mildly interesting at best. After we finished heavy Rain we decided to get Fahrenheit to do the same all over again and MY GOD THAT THING HAS AGED. Do not get Fahrenheit if you played Heavy Rain first.

 

[Supp]

Best thing about this article?

Graham's picture. Made me chuckle for quite a while.

I'd like an NPC to start talking to me as soon as I come close to them

Final Fantasy XIII did this, and I have to say that I really didn't enjoy it. I'd much rather click a to talk to an NPC and get some interesting information, a la earlier Final Fantasies.

 

[mograf]

I enjoyed reading this piece a lot.
I think there's a lot to be said for the transition from PS1 to PS2 era of consoles. If we take final fantasy as an example: Final Fantasy VII told a story that so many gamers connected to on an emotive level. The story was told entirely through text, so players could connect to characters like they would reading a novel. With the power of the PS2 we had fully voiced cut scenes, however hammy voice acting in Final Fantasy X put me off the story, and I could not connect to any of the characters as they all felt like something out of a bad anime.
Now, since the games industry has swelled, we have bigger budgets, and Hollywood actors voice act in games. However so few developers seem to succeed in bringing depth to characters.

Interesting stuff said here as to weather or not games NEED a story. As the lines between Cinema and games blur, we should consider if this is always such a good thing?

 

[mjc0961]

I will certainly agree with what Yahtzee said about the game stopping play to show you something in the room. I hate that so much, especially when it's done constantly. The bottom line is that I want to PLAY this game, not watch it. When you take control away from me, it had better be for a good reason and it had better be worth it. I know this example doesn't really pertain to story, but take something like Burnout Paradise which constantly takes control away from you to show you a slow-mo of your crash and then a few more seconds of the enemy who just got you if you were rammed into the crash. And you crash a LOT in Burnout, so it's constantly going "HEEEEEY check out this crash you were in bro isn't it cooooooooooool in slooooooooow mooooooooootiooooooon?". It pisses me off to the point where I can't stand to play the game anymore.

To tie this back to the story theme, if you're going to stop me playing in the middle of something for some story bits, then it had better be some good and useful story bits, and there had better not be ages of loading in there too. The only thing worse than a constant stream of gameplay | cutscene | gameplay | cutscene | gameplay when the cutscenes aren't important is a constant stream of gameplay | loading | cutscene | loading | gameplay | loading | cutscene and so on. It's not as bad in a game with levels and you just get cutscene in between each level, because at least then you have a decent breaking point for saying "okay, I finished this bit, now I can relax for a bit and watch this." But I hate it in the middle of gameplay, you're trying to do something and then "LAWL CUTSCENE TO TELL YOU SOMETHING STUPID ENJOY HAHAHAHA!" I hate this so much about modern Command and Conquer games, C&C3 especially. You're trying to start playing and then all of a sudden it yanks the controls away again to show you what your objectives are, even though I already know what they are. Just bugger off and let me play! Or in Red Alert 3 Commander's Challenge where they are constantly taking away your radar-screen mid battle to have someone deliver one or two lines either taunting you or whining about losing. STFU and give me my radar back, it's important to gameplay you asshat!

*ahem* Anyway. I guess I ought to hurry up and start playing Half-Life, so I can finish playing it and then move on to Half-Life 2 to see what Yahtzee and Shamus were talking about.

Oh, and I loved that the icon of Graham has him holding a camera. Very nice.

OT: A game that had a great Story for me was Okami.

I personally couldn't stand it while I was still playing it. Basically I was just so annoyed with Isun constantly interrupting gameplay to talk for what felt like 10 minutes for about every 30 minutes or so of gameplay. Once he starts talking he just about never shuts up, and he never has anything terribly interesting to say.

Did this week's Extra Consideration seem a bit short to anyone else? I mean, I like the weekly discussion and all, but I needs me at least three pages of important people talking about stuff I find important to really get into it.

Yeah, very short. It seemed like it was just starting and then come back next week? Is this as far as the three of them got in their conversation so far? I hope it's not being held back just for the sake of having something next week, because that was a really odd place to end it.

 

[Yossarian1507]

1) Just about everyone who plays the game [HL2] agrees that this integration of gameplay and story is wonderfully done

No! Not everyone. I like the idea of the integration of gameplay and story (for example in Modern Warfare, where they did it right), but the way HL2 did it was horrible in my opinion, for two reasons:

1) I prefer no freedom (cutscene, scripted events in MW etc.) to the illusion of freedom that HL2 gives. Yes, you can run around, play with your gravity gun or whatever, but on a couple of occasions I was just screaming 'COME ON! LET ME AT IT! I could easily prevent the disaster, if you would just let me take the full control!' The ending of Ep 2 is a good example. I get it, you were hit by some sort of anti-gravity pulse or whatever, but so did Alyx and Eli, and somehow he could hit the advisor with a pipe. So I say - let me just blast it to hell with my weaponry. But no. It's a scripted event, and you can't do shit. God, that pissed me off so much. It's just annoying and extremely frustrating.

2) PACING! Oh my God, pacing! It's actually funny that Yahtzee writes about importance of it, while praising the storytelling of HL2. It's just way too slow. Too many monologues (because Gordon is a mute), while literally NOTHING happens. Say what you want, but if someone talks to you, and instead of listening, you're dicking around and throwing stuff against the wall because it's more interesting - that means someone screwed up. Big time.

Sorry for that outburst. I'm just so sick of people praising HL2 left and right. >.< It's not a bad game (though I didn't like it at all, and points above are about half of the reason why), but definitely not worth all the praise it gets.

 

[Ben Simon]

Actually, a bit of rotation might be good. I initially was fascinated by Extra Consideration before even reading it, for the simple fact that three big influential characters were supposed to discuss something together, but it might be good to exchange parts of the cast every now and then if a special topic comes up where they might not have much to say about. For example, was a good idea to bring guys from Unskippable into this.

Keep it up, Extra Consideration is one of the most interesting things for me to read on The Escapist!

I have nothing to add, but the more people support this, the more likely it will happen.

 

[Puzzlenaut]

This is where games like the new Fallouts (which I otherwise love) and Mass Effect take me out of the game because I'm always worried about what I might be unknowingly screwing up by selecting one dialogue choice over another. Like yourself, gaming is my job as well as my hobby, and I don't have time for unlimited playthroughs of a game, so I want the one play I DO get to be good. But I find myself afraid to pick dialogue options as I please, and instead scrutinize a walkthrough for fear that if I choose poorly then NPC 1 will die later, or Quest-Line X will lock down... all because I said "Yes" to someone who seemed nice at the time.

Disagree, we like getting locked out of and into choices, cuz we actually BUY the game, spend our money on ONE game, and want to be rewarded for multiple play thrus. Don't be so cocky and think that since u get to play lots of games that we all do. It would be dumb if your choices in dialogue had no effect. If that was the case, why even have them??? Gosh i dont like this guy.

You sound much more cocky than this guy, and he completely excuses himself earlier by admitting that most people get to play single games more than him as he is ferried onto the next one after a week.
I think you just don't like him because he's not Yahtzee or Moviebob, quite frankly.


In other news, these two guys are better than the other two -- the other two are great, but they are afraid to offer their opinions, seemingly.

 

[Resin213]

I'm kind of surprised they didn't mention Heavy Rain. Yahtzee seems to allude to their setup when he gets into the bit about timed responses, and the story is the gameplay. The dialogue tree is the gameplay for that matter.

 

[Valanthe]

Disagree, we like getting locked out of and into choices, cuz we actually BUY the game, spend our money on ONE game, and want to be rewarded for multiple play thrus. Don't be so cocky and think that since u get to play lots of games that we all do. It would be dumb if your choices in dialogue had no effect. If that was the case, why even have them??? Gosh i dont like this guy.

Is "we" like the royal we? I buy my games and there are very few games I give multiple play throughs. I have a family, a career, other interests and a life away from my console and PC. I am not 16 with time to game 8 hours a day, gamers are individuals with different lifestyles.

If I get a satisfying play through where I feel like I have experienced all a game has to offer then do I need a second play through? Multiple play throughs via withholding content feels like a cheap way to extend the life of a title.

On a seperate note, you are posting on a forum, you have plenty of time to write your post. Were you really in such a hurry that you needed to use "u" and "cuz"?

While I wouldn't be so pretentious as to assume my opinion stands for anyone but myself, I have to agree with Neogeta in that, even though I -rarely- give a game more than a single playthrough, I actually take a great amount of pleasure in the fact that the choices I make have consequences and that those consequences are helping to shape and form not only a story, but a world around me. Just as in real life, I make mistakes, sometimes big ones, these mistakes have consequences (Poor Thane, you will be missed) and those consequences are folded into the tapestry that becomes, in the case of my above example, my story of Commander Shepard.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

I kinda want to reference the way Enslaved did things. You interacted while other characters were doing their thing. It may not have been the best example, but it felt more natural to see them getting along and working together with all they went through than Dragon Age 2's radial menu of blank face for two minutes while I get up for a piss.

 

[Srdjan Tanaskovic]

Developers are obsessed with this "gameplay | cutscene | gamplay | cutscene | gameplay" approach to game design.

yeah maybe they do that because cutscence can be skipped. in Half-Life 2 you will have talks (some longer then other) and some people will not care about and there is no way to skip them