The Very Best

[octafish]

So Pokemon is based on Conrad's The Duel? I was waaaay to old for Pokemon at the time but I love Ridley Scott's The Duelists.

 

[PunkRex]

Scrotum? The only Oak besides the Prof ive met is Cuntface...

*picks up megaphone*
Okay, everyone on this site? I just want to clear things up. This is not, and I repeat, NOT Ash. This is RED, the only person who could run Gary Motherfucking Oak into the ground. Observe:
http://www.halolz.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/halolz-dot-com-pokemon-redvsash.jpg
Are we all clear on this?
...good. Return to your duties.
*puts down megaphone*

PREACH! Ash annoyed the hell out of me as a kid, he knew NOTHING about Pokemon and pulled stupid battle tactics that made no sense out of his pok'e'hole. Im surprised he knew what a Pikachu was...

 

[marche45]

[

take up professional poaching.

Poaching? Since when is kidnapping something that is fully sentient and shows intelligence, then forcibly lobotomizing it to make it unquestioningly loyal to you referred to as "poaching"?

Its not lobotomizing,your just tagging it.
Besides,i am fairly certain its been stated that pokemon like fighting.

 

[orangeapples]

*picks up megaphone*
Okay, everyone on this site? I just want to clear things up. This is not, and I repeat, NOT Ash. This is RED, the only person who could run Gary Motherfucking Oak into the ground. Observe:
http://www.halolz.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/halolz-dot-com-pokemon-redvsash.jpg
Are we all clear on this?
...good. Return to your duties.
*puts down megaphone*

Ash is quite an accomplished trainer and far above "mediocre".

top 16 of the Indigo Conference. A competition that had over 200 competitors. and has since ranked top 8 in the Silver Conference, top 8 in the Ever Grande Conference and top 4 of the Lily of the Valley Conference. Also of note is that Ash is both a champion of the Orange League and the Kanto Battle Frontier.

Ash has completely humiliated that squad of Team Rocket for so long Giovanni didn't want anything to do with them. Jesse James and Meowth didn't become competent until after they stopped trying to annoy Ash for Pikachu. Ash also did the same against Butch and Cassidy. Ash doesn't have to stop Team Rocket because TR isn't really doing much evil to the world. He did however stop Team Magma/Aqua and Team Galactic. Red did neither of those.

Ash has caught more than 10 pokemon in his career.
Caterpie
Pidgeotto
Bulbasaur
Charmander
Squirtle
Primape
Krabby
Muk
Tauros
Snorlax
And that was just Kanto
He's added over 20 pokemon since then.

Gary and Ash aren't even in the same competition anymore. Gary has decided to become a pokemon researcher, while Ash continues to travel as a trainer. Both are learning more about pokemon and respect each other. Far from "doesn't even care for him."

It is 2012; your "facts" are 14 years behind the times.

Also, if you're gonna use a picture of Red, use official art, not some fanart done to idolize Red:

and since I'm here:

Ultimate Pokemon Trainer? according to what? Canonically, Red's only obtained 7 pokemon:
Pikachu
Charmander
Squirtle
Bulbasaur
Snorlax
Eevee
Lapras
That's worse than how Ash canonically does in the same region.

Lone Wolf is another way of saying "no friends". He doesn't even call his mom.

First Pokemon Master ever? How so? He was League Champion, but then lost that position to Lance. Did Red catch all of the pokemon? Does Red know everything there is to know about pokemon? I doubt it because some punk 10 year old kid comes along and beats him sending Red crying to the last pokemon center he visited.

His Rival is *****? far from it. When Blue loses to Red, what does he do? He remarks about how his pokemon will do better nest time. What does Red do when he loses to Blue? He faints and has to get rushed back to the last pokemon center he visited. And lets face it, the only reason you are able to beat Blue so easily is because you played the game a bunch of times. When you were first going on your adventure, he wiped the floor with you.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

REALLY should've switched the roles there. Honestly, I'd have been happy to never see that twit after the S.S.Anne fight. I honestly thought he was stalking me after awhile.

 

[marche45]

Absolutely nothing in the game supports the idea that its not lobotomizing them.

Think about it - when they're wild, Pokemon try to kill you. They attack humans on sight, and are instinctually driven to do so. But as soon as its caught, a Pokemon does a complete 180.

Not all the time.Pokemon over a certain level can refuse to take commands if you haven't proven yourself(earned badges) and Ash's charizard straight up refused to take his commands.

Ah, but if it was lobotomization, it would be reflected in their intelligence being diminished. But it is. Why do they think they "can't remember more than four things" - including something as natural as "BITE"? Maybe their intelligence is dimminished by the process.

Do wild pokemon even know more then 4 moves?

But maybe I'm thinking of it wrong - a Pokemon is honorable, and will only go to a trainer that proves their strength. Except they don't, not in any way - pokemon will run, teleport, even kill themselves to get away from a trainer. How is that a test of strength?

Playing hard to get?Pokemon are clearly still free to not obey you.

But even beyond that, look at what happens when you throw the ball. Are they content with your strength? Or are they still struggling in their balls, trying desperately, desperately, to get out, to escape a life of brainwashed servitude to a fucking kid?

They get turned into energy,so nothing really happens in there.

Yes, the humans say the Pokemon like battling. The humans say a lot of things to justify doing terrible, terrible acts.

Clearly,since they attack on sight they do like to fight.

 

[marche45]

Absolutely nothing in the game supports the idea that its not lobotomizing them.

Think about it - when they're wild, Pokemon try to kill you. They attack humans on sight, and are instinctually driven to do so. But as soon as its caught, a Pokemon does a complete 180.

Not all the time.Pokemon over a certain level can refuse to take commands if you haven't proven yourself(earned badges) and Ash's charizard straight up refused to take his commands.

No, that only works with trades. If you caught them, they will do whatever you want no matter the level.

Ah, but if it was lobotomization, it would be reflected in their intelligence being diminished. But it is. Why do they think they "can't remember more than four things" - including something as natural as "BITE"? Maybe their intelligence is dimminished by the process.

Do wild pokemon even know more then 4 moves?

No way of knowing without capturing them. Better question - could a single living organism survive knowing only four things?

But maybe I'm thinking of it wrong - a Pokemon is honorable, and will only go to a trainer that proves their strength. Except they don't, not in any way - pokemon will run, teleport, even kill themselves to get away from a trainer. How is that a test of strength?

Playing hard to get?

Suicidally hard to get, including blowing themselves up. Thats what you do to escape a fate worse than death.

But even beyond that, look at what happens when you throw the ball. Are they content with your strength? Or are they still struggling in their balls, trying desperately, desperately, to get out, to escape a life of brainwashed servitude to a fucking kid?

They get turned into energy,so nothing really happens in there.

Because it would be impossible to rewire an organism if you digitized it. Just like how I can't edit this post EDIT: Oh wait, I can.

Yes, the humans say the Pokemon like battling. The humans say a lot of things to justify doing terrible, terrible acts.

Clearly,since they attack on sight they do like to fight.

Except they don't attack each other on sight, just humans. Read what I said about how if fighting were natural, Zubats would be extinct.

And don't claim they breed too fast, the games clearly state that every single Pokemon breeds at the exact same rate, with the exact same amount of offspring.

Fair enough,still proves they don't have to obey their masters.They also(again) seem to enjoy your company

Its 4 attack moves,with other pokemon who know 4 attack moves.I think it can survive.

Pokemon faint in battle.Unless something specifically states they will die(like charmander's fire going out) they won't die.That or i guess them being eaten(if pokemon eat each other.)
Besides,it looks like zubat could have a speed advantage,with the flight and all.

I don't recall the pokeball rewiring pokemon's mind,disobeying traded trainers for instance.

Maybe they fight each other?They don't have to fight other species.

 

[marche45]

No, they have to obey their original masters. Original. After that, you have to instill fear in Pokemon that have been traded to you.

These attack moves include their primary means of sustenance (Dream Eater, Bite, Leech Life).

Yes, "faint". A fainting that they never wake up from without using a highly expensive curio, a sacred relic, or a highly advanced machine that flashes. When actual fainting wears off in about an hour or so, and would realistically be no more debilitating than going to sleep.

Rewired to mindlessly, slavishly obey their original masters. Original being the key word.

So they fight only their own species....except humans, whom they also attack.

If they could be rewired to obey someone at all,then it should be simple to do that for another person.

Pokemon in the wild need those attacks.Captive pokemon get fed pellets.

Maybe they could be nursed back to health?Dunno,its either that or their are a shit ton of zubats in every cave.

Again,why can't they be rewired once more?

The difference being that the pokemon have presumably learned to live together in harmony,while you are an intruder.Or they could see the fact that you are human and thus weak make you easy prey.

 

[ksn0va]

How the hell did Charizard fit behind that couch!?

 

[ksn0va]

*picks up megaphone*
Okay, everyone on this site? I just want to clear things up. This is not, and I repeat, NOT Ash. This is RED, the only person who could run Gary Motherfucking Oak into the ground. Observe:
http://www.halolz.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/halolz-dot-com-pokemon-redvsash.jpg
Are we all clear on this?
...good. Return to your duties.
*puts down megaphone*

Ash is quite an accomplished trainer and far above "mediocre".

top 16 of the Indigo Conference. A competition that had over 200 competitors. and has since ranked top 8 in the Silver Conference, top 8 in the Ever Grande Conference and top 4 of the Lily of the Valley Conference. Also of note is that Ash is both a champion of the Orange League and the Kanto Battle Frontier.

Ash has completely humiliated that squad of Team Rocket for so long Giovanni didn't want anything to do with them. Jesse James and Meowth didn't become competent until after they stopped trying to annoy Ash for Pikachu. Ash also did the same against Butch and Cassidy. Ash doesn't have to stop Team Rocket because TR isn't really doing much evil to the world. He did however stop Team Magma/Aqua and Team Galactic. Red did neither of those.

Ash has caught more than 10 pokemon in his career.
Caterpie
Pidgeotto
Bulbasaur
Charmander
Squirtle
Primape
Krabby
Muk
Tauros
Snorlax
And that was just Kanto
He's added over 20 pokemon since then.

Gary and Ash aren't even in the same competition anymore. Gary has decided to become a pokemon researcher, while Ash continues to travel as a trainer. Both are learning more about pokemon and respect each other. Far from "doesn't even care for him."

It is 2012; your "facts" are 14 years behind the times.

Also, if you're gonna use a picture of Red, use official art, not some fanart done to idolize Red:

and since I'm here:

Ultimate Pokemon Trainer? according to what? Canonically, Red's only obtained 7 pokemon:
Pikachu
Charmander
Squirtle
Bulbasaur
Snorlax
Eevee
Lapras
That's worse than how Ash canonically does in the same region.

Lone Wolf is another way of saying "no friends". He doesn't even call his mom.

First Pokemon Master ever? How so? He was League Champion, but then lost that position to Lance. Did Red catch all of the pokemon? Does Red know everything there is to know about pokemon? I doubt it because some punk 10 year old kid comes along and beats him sending Red crying to the last pokemon center he visited.

His Rival is *****? far from it. When Blue loses to Red, what does he do? He remarks about how his pokemon will do better nest time. What does Red do when he loses to Blue? He faints and has to get rushed back to the last pokemon center he visited. And lets face it, the only reason you are able to beat Blue so easily is because you played the game a bunch of times. When you were first going on your adventure, he wiped the floor with you.

Does Red appear in the anime?

 

[Ljs1121]

I kinda feel bad for Blue.

Not as bad as I did when I murdered his Raticate, but still.

 

[PunkRex]

I think we got a few Blue fans up in here. Guys, Blue was cool as was Gary Oak, the point of this discusion is the ineptitude of Ash, BECAUSE HE WAS... he was a bad Pok'e'trainer.

 

[Revolutionary]

I called him Dicks Oak. We're such a mature bunch.

 

[AlexWinter]

Highly impractical. Then they'd make no distinction between the person ordering them around and the other slaver. If your opponent can stop all your attacks by yelling stop, then the creature is worthless.

And when you don't need to do something, you lose all memory of ever being able to do it. Like how, the day they retire, professionals lose all memories of how to perform their old jobs. And how amputees forget what its like to have an arm. Forgetting how to bite is not something trivial - it shows that their mental capacity is extremely limitted, to the point that they are unable to remeber how to close their jaws on another thing.

Evidently they can't be nursed back to health, or they'd actually get back up without outside aid. Anyway, that doesn't adress my point of fainting being roughly the same as sleeping.

Because that would require they be captured again, which would diminish their intelligence so much they become a vegetable.

Harmony does not exist in nature. At all. Life is a kill or be killed struggle between the species - with the sole exception of symbiotic species, there is never a case of several predatory species living together without eating each other.

You're grasping at straws now.

If any of this is stated in one of the games or in the anime then I agree with you. Otherwise you're applying the rules of our world to their world, which is ludicrous.

 

[orangeapples]

PREACH! Ash annoyed the hell out of me as a kid, he knew NOTHING about Pokemon and pulled stupid battle tactics that made no sense out of his pok'e'hole. Im surprised he knew what a Pikachu was...

Tactic to defeat Brock: use an electric type against a rock type.

use an electric type against a rock type.

a rock type.

electric is normal effective against rock.

Ash has completely humiliated that squad of Team Rocket for so long Giovanni didn't want anything to do with them. Jesse James and Meowth didn't become competent until after they stopped trying to annoy Ash for Pikachu. Ash also did the same against Butch and Cassidy. Ash doesn't have to stop Team Rocket because TR isn't really doing much evil to the world.
Red took down every Rocketeer, all the way up to its boss, Giovanni. Can't say Ash did that. And if you're going to use "took four people off Team Rocket's payroll" as an argument, imagine if you ran an organization and some random prepubescent kid defeated every last one of them: you'd be cutting off the income of more than just four people, that's for damn sure.
He did however stop Team Magma/Aqua and Team Galactic. Red did neither of those.That's like saying Ethan didn't stop Team Magma/Aqua/Galactic. He couldn't in his game. This is a strict what-could've-been-done/actually-did comparison between characters, within what ACTUALLY COULD'VE BEEN DONE.

I'm not talking about what Ethan did, this is purely between what Ash and Red actually did. Yes, Red stopped Team Rocket in his universe. I never said he didn't. And I'm not saying that Red couldn't stop Team Aqua/Magma/Plasma, just that he didn't while Ash did.

Ash has caught more than 10 pokemon in his career.
Caterpie
Pidgeotto
Bulbasaur
Charmander
Squirtle
Primape
Krabby
Muk
Tauros
Snorlax
And that was just Kanto
He's added over 20 pokemon since then.
20
20

I'm not saying 20 was a lot, but the argument was that Ash hasn't caught more than 10. All I had to do was prove it wrong.

Gary and Ash aren't even in the same competition anymore. Gary has decided to become a pokemon researcher, while Ash continues to travel as a trainer. Both are learning more about pokemon and respect each other.

All you have is some fanart? Not even an attempt at discussion?

Ultimate Pokemon Trainer? according to what? Canonically, Red's only obtained 7 pokemon:
Pikachu
Charmander
Squirtle
Bulbasaur
Snorlax
Eevee
Lapras
That's worse than how Ash canonically does in the same region.
Canonically,
Charmander
Squirtle
Bulbasaur
Also, "all the pokemon you have in your current inventory" != "all the pokemon you've ever owned".

Then you tell me, what pokemon other than the ones I listed does Red canonically have? You can't, because that's all he canonically has. No amount of idolization can change that. To top that off, the only one of those pokemon that was caught was Snorlax. The rest were either given to Red, or Red stole.

Does Red know everything there is to know about pokemon? I doubt it because some punk 10 year old kid comes along and beats him sending Red crying to the last pokemon center he visited.
Knowing everything there is to know about pokemon is a pokemon researcher's job, not a trainer's. Also, even you would know that "league champion" is a title hardly held for long by anyone.

Red is a pokemon trainer, so knowing as much as he possibly can is relevant to his hobby. And you're wrong. Steven Stone was Champion so long he got bored of the position and left. He left to look at rocks. He was that bored of being Champion.

His Rival is *****? far from it. When Blue loses to Red, what does he do? He remarks about how his pokemon will do better nest time.
And then proceeds to walk away. When all of your pokemon have fainted, you lose. Back to the Pokemon Center. Where the hell else do you think he walks? Also, at least in FireRed/LeafGreen, Red takes his pokemon to a center as well, no matter who he loses to.

Yeah, but at least Blue isn't such a wuss that he faints.

And lets face it, the only reason you are able to beat Blue so easily is because you played the game a bunch of times. When you were first going on your adventure, he wiped the floor with you.

Are we talking about Red as a character, or the person actually playing the game?

only because there is no basis of judging how Red actually does against Blue.

 

[saintdane05]

Could you really blame Ash?

Ash?

Ash?

*picks up megaphone*
Okay, everyone on this site? I just want to clear things up. This is not, and I repeat, NOT Ash. This is RED, the only person who could run Gary Motherfucking Oak into the ground. Observe:
http://www.halolz.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/halolz-dot-com-pokemon-redvsash.jpg
Are we all clear on this?
...good. Return to your duties.
*puts down megaphone*

Unless we are talking about the badass Ash from The Electric Tale of Pikachu.

 

[Skeleon]

Folks, folks, calm down.
Good Ash, bad Ash...

Spoiler: ...he's the one with the gun.

Nice comic. The ever-present mute protagonist does lend himself well to project all sorts of neuroses into.

 

[A Satanic Panda]

Why is (is that Gary?) making out with and marrying Korra? All my fan-fics are ruined!

 

[knight4light]

Highly impractical. Then they'd make no distinction between the person ordering them around and the other slaver. If your opponent can stop all your attacks by yelling stop, then the creature is worthless.

And when you don't need to do something, you lose all memory of ever being able to do it. Like how, the day they retire, professionals lose all memories of how to perform their old jobs. And how amputees forget what its like to have an arm. Forgetting how to bite is not something trivial - it shows that their mental capacity is extremely limitted, to the point that they are unable to remeber how to close their jaws on another thing.

Evidently they can't be nursed back to health, or they'd actually get back up without outside aid. Anyway, that doesn't adress my point of fainting being roughly the same as sleeping.

Because that would require they be captured again, which would diminish their intelligence so much they become a vegetable.

Harmony does not exist in nature. At all. Life is a kill or be killed struggle between the species - with the sole exception of symbiotic species, there is never a case of several predatory species living together without eating each other.

You're grasping at straws now.

If any of this is stated in one of the games or in the anime then I agree with you. Otherwise you're applying the rules of our world to their world, which is ludicrous.

No, I'm applying simple logic. I'm assuming that still applies.

One question. what of the ancient pokeballs/artifacts. or better yet.. heres a link

http://www.angelfire.com/weird/ektomage/snap/pokeballs.html

pokeballs are strange. and i think its something we'll never truely know the answers to. also... what every happened to the gs ball.

 

[orangeapples]

electric is normal effective against rock.
Okay orange, go boot up a copy of FireRed, capture a Pikachu in Viridian Forst, and challenge Brock. Use Thundershock. Humor me.

Electric has no effect against ground. It is just that Brock's rock pokemon were also part ground. Electric is still super effective against the Omanyte/Omastar, Kabuto/Kabutops and Aerodactyl despite all of them being rock type pokemon.

I'm not saying 20 was a lot, but the argument was that Ash hasn't caught more than 10. All I had to do was prove it wrong.
Wasn't the one who made the image. ~30 pokemon captured sucks, no matter how you look at it, especially if you're going to multiple reasons. We're talking about the aptitude of the trainer, and Ash fails in this respect. Hard.

as I said, I was only arguing against the picture, since that was all you used in that post. It doesn't matter what else you say in that argument, I proved it wrong. That is enough.

Then you tell me, what pokemon other than the ones I listed does Red canonically have? You can't, because that's all he canonically has. No amount of idolization can change that. To top that off, the only one of those pokemon that was caught was Snorlax. The rest were either given to Red, or Red stole.
When you have all three starter pokemon canon flies out the fucking window.

Does it? Because when events in 1 part of a series agree with a later part of the series as established facts, those become canon. In Pokemon Yellow, all three starters were obtainable without trading, outside tools or glitching to move outside of the parameters of the programmers. In video games, that stuff is canon.

Steven Stone was Champion so long he got bored of the position and left. He left to look at rocks. He was that bored of being Champion.
Fine. One exception. Point: Orange.

YES! ONE!

Yeah, but at least Blue isn't such a wuss that he faints.
Suppose you lost a trainer battle. How the hell can you go to the pokemon center if you're knocked out? "Blacking out" (or "whiting out" in FR/LG) represents the outcome of a battle, like fading out in cinematography. It's not like it's part of what "literally" happened.... unless it's like that one part in Victory Gundam where that one Shrike pilot got incinerated with a beam saber. That sucked.

I was always under the impression that Prof Oak is watching every single thing you do (which is why he can tell you to not use a fishing rod on a tree) and that he installed some sort of tracking device on the pokedex he gives you allowing him to teleport you to the last pokemon center you used. He is a researcher after all, perhaps at some point in his studies he found out how to replicate the pokemon's move Teleport for human application.

only because there is no basis of judging how Red actually does against Blue.

We DO know that he beat Blue in the Pokemon league. That HAD to count for something. Imagine if you just beat the Elite Four, became champ, and then your title was taken away almost immediately after. That had to be the greatest dethroning/ultimate ownage of Blue... ever.

I'd give you that one BUT when you rematch the E4, guess who is still champion. So between the time you defeat Blue and continue your game, Blue beats you as well.

captcha: true blue

that's right! Even captcha agrees with me.