The Victims of Homosexuality

[Xhoyl]

I'm probably going to get some flack for this, but my religion is against homosexuality. That being said, I do not agree with all the hate mongering morons who think that just because they think something is wrong, they can persecute and torment them. They cannot. That is not your right. People, no matter their faults, are human beings. And as such I will treat anyone like a person, with compassion and understanding, whether I agree with their lifestyle or not. You can't change my beliefs, so don't even try, but when people try to take away the freedom to do what they want, that makes me angry. So I am fully in favor of bills that give more rights to people, such as gay marriage, because I don't think it's the governments business to oppose peoples immortal right to choose.

Now, before you bombard me with a flurry of "but they don't get to choose" comments, because I know you will, while I do think it's a choice, I obviously don't think people just get out of bed one day and say "well, I'm gonna be gay." It doesn't work like that. It's something they tend to deal with their entire lives, and I am in no way saying it's easy to fight it. But I can tell you multiple stories of people who were gay and changed their lives. Too many people assume that because most people can't or won't do it, that no one can. I've seen incredibly gay men turn around and raise entire families. It's possible no matter how much you deny it. They weren't "brain washed", as most people will be convinced of, they were given options to help them and they chose to do so. Once again, it all comes down to choice, and being given those choices. Anyway, I'll stop here and wait for the inevitable flux of people disagreeing with me.

OK, I'm getting mixed messages here, so I'm going to tread carefully. Let me start by asking you this, just to clarify: Do you think homosexuality is inherently and morally wrong?

*sigh* when I said my religion was against it, I thought that would be clear. If you want some specifics on why, one of the big faucets of my religion is marriage and procreating to have large families (if you can guess which religion it is, you get a cookie) and as a result, being gay is the exact opposite of those beliefs. Now, there's obviously more to it than that, but I'm not going to give a sermon or anything, that's not my intention. The point is that hate mongering is pointless and wrong. So we can agree on that at least.

 

[Luke3184]

This thread has actually given me a warm fuzzy feeling where my heart used to be.... Thank you all, you're awesome people, especially the OP! Now pretend I gave you a hug and let's never talk of it again.

 

[Westaway]

I have to disagree with you about those in bold. Being overweight ... [is a]definite life choices, and cost the state money in associated health risks.

You think so? Try a little experiment sometime you're in the grocery store. The goal is to get as much actual food as possible for as little money as possible. Seems pretty easy to folks who have the disposable income to buy a $60 game every month or even every week, right?

The twisted, depressing fact is that a healthy diet is considered a luxury in the U.S. these days, and is priced accordingly.

I don't see why my taxes should pay for the terrible choices that these people make.

Your taxes will ALWAYS pay for other peoples's terrible choices. Usually, said people will be the clowns in charge (regardless of whether they wear a red or blue jersey). Get used to it.

I just made a delicious shrimp and pasta dish. Restaurant quality. I paid $9 for all the ingrediants. I learned from a book. Buying the same dish, but frozen, less tasty and more fatty would cost around.$15. Makimg food is cheaper and easy. There is no excuse besides actual sicknesses.

 

[Xhoyl]

I'm probably going to get some flack for this, but my religion is against homosexuality. That being said, I do not agree with all the hate mongering morons who think that just because they think something is wrong, they can persecute and torment them. They cannot. That is not your right. People, no matter their faults, are human beings. And as such I will treat anyone like a person, with compassion and understanding, whether I agree with their lifestyle or not. You can't change my beliefs, so don't even try, but when people try to take away the freedom to do what they want, that makes me angry. So I am fully in favor of bills that give more rights to people, such as gay marriage, because I don't think it's the governments business to oppose peoples immortal right to choose.

Now, before you bombard me with a flurry of "but they don't get to choose" comments, because I know you will, while I do think it's a choice, I obviously don't think people just get out of bed one day and say "well, I'm gonna be gay." It doesn't work like that. It's something they tend to deal with their entire lives, and I am in no way saying it's easy to fight it. But I can tell you multiple stories of people who were gay and changed their lives. Too many people assume that because most people can't or won't do it, that no one can. I've seen incredibly gay men turn around and raise entire families. It's possible no matter how much you deny it. They weren't "brain washed", as most people will be convinced of, they were given options to help them and they chose to do so. Once again, it all comes down to choice, and being given those choices. Anyway, I'll stop here and wait for the inevitable flux of people disagreeing with me.

OK, I'm getting mixed messages here, so I'm going to tread carefully. Let me start by asking you this, just to clarify: Do you think homosexuality is inherently and morally wrong?

Whats to be confused about? Or is the confusing part that he said he doesn't agree with all the hate mongering morons? Is that where the confusion comes in? Cause thats pretty much the only thing I ever see anywhere, including these boards. "I don't like homosexuality" "HOMOPHOBE!" "No, I just think its morally wrong" "YOU BIGOT!" "Look, you can do whatever you want in your own bedroom, just me personally and my religious convictions think its a sin to act upon homosexual tendencies" "HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTEEEEEEEEEE MONNNNNNGEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRR!"

Cause thats what it usually boils down to. Anyone who has anything but praise and acceptance for the homosexual lifestyle is labeled a hater no matter what they say.

This made me laugh. If you don't have acceptance for it YOU ARE BY DEFINITION A HATER you fucking moron. Praise? Fair enough, don't have to agree with it but as soon as you refuse to accept it in others You are (and I hope I'm not overstating this point) BY DEFINITION A HATER!
God, If you're homophobic at least admit it, don't try and cover it up with moronic reasons as to why people who aren't homophobes are persecuting you.

Lover the sinner, hate the sin. Ever hear that quote? It's exactly what I'm saying. Because I don't agree with them doesn't mean I don't love them as people, and wish the best for them. I don't think any less of them because of it, they just have a weakness like all of us. No one is a perfect person.

 

[DailonCmann]

This is absolutely true, but it needs to be extended to a wider net of people. You think homosexuals get it bad, try transgender, or androgynous, or asexual, or furry, or non-molesting pedophile/zoophile, or rape fetishist/sadomasochist, or moving away from sexual interests: fat people, or smokers, or Asperger's people, or those with body modifications.

None of those harm other people any more than homosexuals and the gender/sexual ones don't even choose to be what they are, but it's still widely acceptable to hate on any of those in both real-life and online, to say that it's weird or sick or disgusting or weak or just wrong or that it's fucked up or that it must be a sign of a deeper mental instability. Your words have real effects people. If someone isn't harming anyone-else, let them get on with their life and save your vitriol for people who those who are actively hurting others, it's not like they are in short supply.

There's a difference between all of these and being gay. Those simply break social taboo and the in some cases, they should not be encouraged and understood the same way homosexuality is. People who get off on the thought of raping someone or having sex with children should be chastised for that if they choose to publicly say that. That's sick. And not sick like two consenting adults making love, it's morally reprehensible. I get that they didn't choose to be that way, but you don't go public with certain things in your life. It's absolutely not the same. Not all life-styles are equal. A gay guy and a guy who wants to have sex with children are not on the same level.
As for fetishists and furries, these things simply don't have a place in today's modern society. They are so misunderstood and the niche that they inhabit is so small, that the internet should be the place that they stay until society becomes acclimated to their existence.
People with body mods, I'll say this right now, do not deserve the same treatment as those who do not. They made a conscious descion to say "I'm not a part of this society," which is fine. Just don't expect to get hired by that big firm.
Smoking and fat people are being held to a different level because those lifestyles are unhealthy and sometime unhealthy to those around them. Things should be taken into account however and here more than any other point, your argument makes sense.
As for Asperger's syndrome, as with any other mental problem, it's protected under law from discrimination.
TL; DR - Your point in a logical fallacy, every culture's practices are not morally okay just because it's something different.

 

[Don Savik]

I'm probably going to get some flack for this, but my religion is against homosexuality. That being said, I do not agree with all the hate mongering morons who think that just because they think something is wrong, they can persecute and torment them. They cannot. That is not your right. People, no matter their faults, are human beings. And as such I will treat anyone like a person, with compassion and understanding, whether I agree with their lifestyle or not. You can't change my beliefs, so don't even try, but when people try to take away the freedom to do what they want, that makes me angry. So I am fully in favor of bills that give more rights to people, such as gay marriage, because I don't think it's the governments business to oppose peoples immortal right to choose.

Now, before you bombard me with a flurry of "but they don't get to choose" comments, because I know you will, while I do think it's a choice, I obviously don't think people just get out of bed one day and say "well, I'm gonna be gay." It doesn't work like that. It's something they tend to deal with their entire lives, and I am in no way saying it's easy to fight it. But I can tell you multiple stories of people who were gay and changed their lives. Too many people assume that because most people can't or won't do it, that no one can. I've seen incredibly gay men turn around and raise entire families. It's possible no matter how much you deny it. They weren't "brain washed", as most people will be convinced of, they were given options to help them and they chose to do so. Once again, it all comes down to choice, and being given those choices. Anyway, I'll stop here and wait for the inevitable flux of people disagreeing with me.

OK, I'm getting mixed messages here, so I'm going to tread carefully. Let me start by asking you this, just to clarify: Do you think homosexuality is inherently and morally wrong?

*sigh* when I said my religion was against it, I thought that would be clear. If you want some specifics on why, one of the big faucets of my religion is marriage and procreating to have large families (if you can guess which religion it is, you get a cookie) and as a result, being gay is the exact opposite of those beliefs. Now, there's obviously more to it than that, but I'm not going to give a sermon or anything, that's not my intention. The point is that hate mongering is pointless and wrong. So we can agree on that at least.

I could've sworn marriage was about 2 consenting adults who love each other spending the rest of theirs lives together. Wouldn't the most productive way to reproduce be assembly line orgy style? Or harems of concubines? I don't see the correlation between marriage and reproduction. And what about adopting kids? Is that not an easy way to acquire a large family? Or does that not count?

Not trying to sound rude or anything, but I'm just trying to see if you understand that what your saying makes no sense. Its sounds like this stigma that your religion created has no substantial backing on any of its claims.

 

[targren]

I just made a delicious shrimp and pasta dish. Restaurant quality. I paid $9 for all the ingrediants. I learned from a book. Buying the same dish, but frozen, less tasty and more fatty would cost around.$15. Makimg food is cheaper and easy. There is no excuse besides actual sicknesses.

Wow, you really don't get it, do you?

Here's a hint: Poor folk don't eat shrimp pasta dishes. Your $9 that you spent on one meal may well have been an entire day's food budget. Hell, you have to spend almost half that to just get a pound of fresh fruit, which has a nasty habit of spoiling. So you buy the shit in the can. Less good for you, but you can afford it. That's where the nasty frozen crap comes in. "Bad for you" is cheaper, even moreso in bulk but it has to keep.

 

[DailonCmann]

I'm probably going to get some flack for this, but my religion is against homosexuality. That being said, I do not agree with all the hate mongering morons who think that just because they think something is wrong, they can persecute and torment them. They cannot. That is not your right. People, no matter their faults, are human beings. And as such I will treat anyone like a person, with compassion and understanding, whether I agree with their lifestyle or not. You can't change my beliefs, so don't even try, but when people try to take away the freedom to do what they want, that makes me angry. So I am fully in favor of bills that give more rights to people, such as gay marriage, because I don't think it's the governments business to oppose peoples immortal right to choose.

Now, before you bombard me with a flurry of "but they don't get to choose" comments, because I know you will, while I do think it's a choice, I obviously don't think people just get out of bed one day and say "well, I'm gonna be gay." It doesn't work like that. It's something they tend to deal with their entire lives, and I am in no way saying it's easy to fight it. But I can tell you multiple stories of people who were gay and changed their lives. Too many people assume that because most people can't or won't do it, that no one can. I've seen incredibly gay men turn around and raise entire families. It's possible no matter how much you deny it. They weren't "brain washed", as most people will be convinced of, they were given options to help them and they chose to do so. Once again, it all comes down to choice, and being given those choices. Anyway, I'll stop here and wait for the inevitable flux of people disagreeing with me.

OK, I'm getting mixed messages here, so I'm going to tread carefully. Let me start by asking you this, just to clarify: Do you think homosexuality is inherently and morally wrong?

*sigh* when I said my religion was against it, I thought that would be clear. If you want some specifics on why, one of the big faucets of my religion is marriage and procreating to have large families (if you can guess which religion it is, you get a cookie) and as a result, being gay is the exact opposite of those beliefs. Now, there's obviously more to it than that, but I'm not going to give a sermon or anything, that's not my intention. The point is that hate mongering is pointless and wrong. So we can agree on that at least.

I could've sworn marriage was about 2 consenting adults who love each other spending the rest of theirs lives together. Wouldn't the most productive way to reproduce be assembly line orgy style? Or harems of concubines? I don't see the correlation between marriage and reproduction. And what about adopting kids? Is that not an easy way to acquire a large family? Or does that not count?

Not trying to sound rude or anything, but I'm just trying to see if you understand that what your saying makes no sense. Its sounds like this stigma that your religion created has no substantial backing on any of its claims.

First of all, you can't change your sexuality, only repress it. This is terrible for your mental state as it instills deep feelings of shame and disgust. Your religion wants as families to be as big as possible so it can the religion can have more followers and thereby amass more donations. To pass any judgement on someone with a mindset coming from that point is no less than morally reprehensible.

 

[dvd_72]

Huh. I seem to be running into a lot of misleading titles today. Oh well.

It's been said before, but I'll say it for myself, and to add more weight behind the statement I guess, but I am appalled that we are talking about this. Not because it's wrong to talk about homosexuality, but that in the 21st century we need to still teach people who have access to modern views that homosexuality is not a sin, and that it is not immoral, or wrong in any way.

I wish we would stop talking about this not because we shouldn't talk about this, but because we shouldn't have the need to, and the need for these topics just doesn't bode well for our community!

 

[Sandytimeman]

snip

So what your saying is you can think someone is completely evil, and think that that's totally cool? I just don't see most conservatives or religious people acting in such a manner.

In fact just about any religion that has a tenant or law against homosexuality has lobbyist and politicians that are actively fighting to remove gay rights, or claim that homosexuality is a threat.

Shit most religions of the god of Abraham (IE Christianity, Jewish, and Muslim) faiths homosexuality is a capital offense.

 

[Lieju]

This is absolutely true, but it needs to be extended to a wider net of people. You think homosexuals get it bad, try transgender, or androgynous, or asexual, or furry, or non-molesting pedophile/zoophile, or rape fetishist/sadomasochist, or moving away from sexual interests: fat people, or smokers, or Asperger's people, or those with body modifications.

I have to disagree with you about those in bold. Being overweight and smoking are definite life choices, and cost the state money in associated health risks. I don't see why my taxes should pay for the terrible choices that these people make.

It's not as simple as that. Not everyone feels hunger the same way.
I had to take certain medication a while back, and the side-effect was that it made me hungry. I needed to eat much more and often to feel full, and gained weight.

After I stopped taking the medication, it went away, and I eventually went back to the normal body weight. I ate the same kind of food all the while, and didn't really make any change apart from how much of it I ate.

There is choice involved more than when it comes to stuff like sexuality, though.

 

[MC K-Mac]

Savage, the guy who originally came up with it, IIRC, completely denies the existence of bisexuality. You're either gay or straight, maybe you're going through a phase, maybe you're doing it for attention, but you absolutely cannot be bisexual.

Likewise, he is very dismissive of racial problems, and wants people to be concentrating on gay issues instead.

Now, that's hardly uncommon, activists are often very selective in what causes they fight for, and tend to be just as bad as everyone else in regards to the others, and it doesn't invalidate the good work he's doing in regards to the small section of people he sees as worthy of help, but it does mean he's neglecting or adding to other people's problems.

WTF??? When has Savage ever been dismissive of racial problems? Give a quote or take that back.

And "you absolutely cannot be bisexual" is stretching it. Savage sometimes pokes fun at bi's, but he doesn't deny their existence. Quote please.

 

[Bloodtrozorx]

I came in here prepared to fight and was pleasantly surprised by OP.

I couldn't agree more, I see it everyday here (State of Maryland, US) and its incredible to me that humans can preach peace and love out one side of their mouths and so much hatred out the other.

 

[lacktheknack]

I believe the correct description here is "Preaching to the choir yet again".

I guess it was good typing practice, though, so there's that.

 

[Patrick Buck]

You think this is the Fox News site or what?

This is the Escapist; You'll be hard pressed to find an openly gay bashing individual here.

I don't really understand the point of this thread, I guess.

More or less my thoughts.
While I agree with whats being said, I find it sad that is has to be voiced. I don't think I've seen any homophobes on the ecapsist, which makes it stand out from most sites, thats for damn sure. But still. I agree with you.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Oh, let us once again light a candle for all those people who have a massive amounts of support on the internet, in the media, and in popular culture and pretend like they're victims. Because obviously, the only people who kill themselves did it because they were bullied and depressed, not because popular culture repeatedly suggested to them that this was a valid way to deal with their emotional problems. Gay people are the ONLY people on the planet who have serious problems reconciling their sexuality with their personal lives and have trouble getting laid. It's not like every major city and many small towns don't have bars, clubs, and freaking parades exclusively catered to other like minded people.

It's 2012. Get over yourselves. Do yourself a favor and go on any straight dating site and check out the ratio of available straight men to available straight women. Maybe check out chat roulette some time, too. Maybe I'm just an embittered undersexed bastard with a bad attitude, but if I have to keep hearing about how bad gay people have it nowadays, I'm gonna scream. Because to me, it would be pretty freaking awesome if heterosexuals had a united cultural/political viewpoint, an identity, places to go to meet people, a persecution complex, and the general understanding that all involved want relationships and sex. And on top of that, wanting those things doesn't make you a bad person or a player or a slut or a whore or whatever.

 

[Xhoyl]

snip

So what your saying is you can think someone is completely evil, and think that that's totally cool? I just don't see most conservatives or religious people acting in such a manner.

In fact just about any religion that has a tenant or law against homosexuality has lobbyist and politicians that are actively fighting to remove gay rights, or claim that homosexuality is a threat.

Shit most religions of the god of Abraham (IE Christianity, Jewish, and Muslim) faiths homosexuality is a capital offense.

So you didn't really read what I said did you? Doing something wrong does not MAKE you evil. No person is inherently evil, not even Hitler. He made very bad choices, and as a result hurt a lot of people. And no, I'm not comparing gay people to Hitler, stop being so melodramatic. Look, I was just trying to show my stance on things, but I should have just assumed no one would understand. Next time I'm not even going to bother. Apparently having a different view that isn't hate filled and angry is foreign to people. Let me say it again, I will never EVER hate someone because of what they have done or what they believe, or what lifestyle they live. I don't agree with Muslims, but I don't hate them either, in fact most of them are probably very good people. Stop trying to twist my words just so you can look like the good guy. Btw, my religion does not believe in the old testaments laws because we're not Jewish, that's why we CHANGED. So stating that is pointless. One religion doing something does not mean that mine does it too, that's an over generalization.

 

[Sandytimeman]

snip

I'm not trying to seem like a good guy or publicly like try and call you out on your point. I just was wondering, because my personal experience and fears as a homosexual that lives in the closet.

I often see people say they are against gays or gay rights but for them as a person. I am not really able to understand very well myself.

 

[DrunkPickle]

I'm sorry, but I don't entirely agree. You typed all of this with anger and hate. Saying that people who don't support homosexuality are the reason gays commit suicide is a little too harsh, don't you think? Everyone is in control of their own lives, and so, when a person commits suicide, it was their decision. Of course, other people may have prompted the person into the state of depression, and they are NOT by any means justified, no; but blaming them entirely isn't fair either.

Personally, I don't support homosexuality. I believe it's wrong as God created two genders for a reason. But I will not treat homosexuals any different than heterosexuals, I think doing so is wrong too, and this is where the problem lies.

I look at it like this: A person isn't justified just because he/she was born with the tendency to commit a certain sin more than other sins. We are all tempted, and we all go through hardships, but just like Jesus we must bear our cross.

So I leave you with a question:

"Is it better to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"

 

[Aprilgold]

Small tip: Nobody's going to listen to you if you're being aggressive, and that's exactly what the opening post was being.

Meh. I don't have to say shit to this except for, yeah, opposition never gets your point across except for when thousands of Jews died so that they could understand that Nazi's didn't dig them, dig? Sure thats pushing the extreme, but thats my general point.

Pro-tip: Opposition and aggressiveness will always get your point across in one way or the other, but will always have extremely bad side-effects.

Sure the Hitler example was pushing it, but if your religion openly says thats its A-OK to bully, harass, push and sometimes straight up tell people to get killed, then your getting the point across that you don't like that specific brand of people. But that doesn't mean that you won't come off as a giant-metal-phallic-dick.

One of my best friends is gay and my sister is dating a girl (pansexual) I honestly for the absolute life of me figure out in any possible way how these people are immoral, they are exactly the same as us. When my friend revealed he was gay we were like "ok...cool" We make jokes about it as friends.

Riddle me this, why do people hate gays for no reason and treat them as people to be shunned. Gays are the same as us, just the people who think it's immoral are people who only think SEX SEX SEX! It confuses the fuck out of me.

Also the Aspergers syndrome is COMPLETELY overblown. I have it and I have plenty of friends and has had girlfriends and hell I SUCK at math which aspergers people are supposed to excel at. I just take advantage of the system and I'll get 175 euro a week one I finish school to do jack shit because I have aspergers, life is good. Alcohol and games will seem a whole lot cheaper.

Because their different. If you look at the main reason why people didn't like black dudes it comes down to 'their different' in a lot of the cases.

Anyways, I agree with you on this. But I don't think this is the right audience, of course we all still need to tackle the casual racism and LGBT bigotry one of these days. But thats a journey for another day.