the "Why didn't they just shoot Voldemort?" thread

[Smiley Face]

First is that, for whatever reason, the various mechanical and chemical processes that go into firing a gun don't quite take in high-magic areas, so it doesn't work for whatever reason.

Where has this been mentioned ever? I have no recollection of anybody explaining it in the Harry Potter's universe. In Harry Dresden's universe, however that is true. But that is a different one.

I'm making a conjecture as to what sort of reason might be given by someone defending that point, I'm not necessarily endorsing it. I'm pretty sure they've mentioned Muggle Tech as not functioning around magic, but I'm pretty sure that was limited to electronics. That said, it's not a far stretch to imagine that a volatile and unstable force that distorts the otherwise known laws of physics might, you know, distort the laws of physics.

But again, I'm just throwing conjecture as to what someone might say the reason was - and frankly, even if that was the case, I don't see how they could say something like a crossbow wouldn't work. That, and if the chemical processes that go into firing a gun would malfunction, the chemical processes that the human body constantly undergoes would definitely malfunction - Muggles would be exploding left and right.

 

[Tharwen]

A lot of the strength of Harry Potter is the fact that it's completely fantastical. The world and the story and the characters would fall apart under the slightest scrutiny, so you have to suspend your disbelief to enjoy it, and that's why it's so appealing.

 

[Ixnay1111]

You can get away with a lot when writing a book directed at children. Harry Potter just went bad when it tried to get dark and gritty.

 

[Mr.Mattress]

I think the Reason Harry doesn't get a Gun and shoot Voldemort is because... He's in England! How easy is it to get a gun in England? From what I've heard, it's rather hard. Heck, How easy is it for a 17-18 year old to get a gun in England? I would imagine its harder!

And how much money does he have to go to America to buy one, then use his wizard powers to bring it back to London without him getting in a ton of trouble? It's more of a burden then it is a benefit.

 

[SnakeoilSage]

Don't you think it should of at least been lampshaded? Ya know... like Buffy.

Oh, possibly. But that might also have brought more attention to it. In the end, the story is about life lessons, not killing the big bad. That's kind of hard to spot in the later books and it's railroaded in (almost literally) during the "King's Crossing in Limbo" scene, but the story is really about how goodness empowers us (Harry finds love and family), and evil destroys us (as Voldemort continues his mad quest to slay Harry Potter, he slowly loses everything without even realizing it).

Because evil, evidently, is dumb.

 

[Trippy Turtle]

1: JK Rowling explained why a gun wouldn't work, I forget where though.
2:Wandless, non verbal magic could probably be done by him in an instant. He does more complex spells instantly in the book. Secondly he is a half blood! He grew up with muggles, he might not like them but I going to assume you pick up something in 11 years. Even the Daily Prophet mentions a gun once.
3:Well, this isn't a reason why you couldn't shoot him but I guess it wouldn't finish him.
4: Who have you ever heard say this and actually mean it?

 

[Treblaine]

The main reason it's not used is simply because most wizards don't even know what a gun is. They have a spell that can kill so why would they be interested in a muggle weapon? Also, they're main goal is just to stop Voldemort, Harry's the only one who really thinks about killing him and because of the horcruxes he doesn't even think about actually killing him until the time comes when he can. Does it really matter anyway? The story is brilliantly written with everything becoming important by the end and it's not as bad as the ending for Transformers 3. Seriously, Optimus Prime could have shot that pillar as soon as the fighting broke out!

WHART!!

You mean they are not aware of such a fundamental piece of technology that has totally revolutionised history for the past 500 years and has continued to revolutionise it with every advancement of the technology and woe be on any army that is behind the curve? That's like not being aware of cars. No, it's even more fundamental than that, it's like not being aware of electricity. No, guns even pre-date electricity. It's like not being aware of the printing press. Yes, that has been similarly revolutionary to the world as guns and Magical-folk in Harry Potter are clearly influenced by that from their use of newspapers... though with curiously integration of Animated gifs onto the ink.

It's the one piece of technology that totally outclasses all other magical powers for how how quickly and EASILY it can be used to kill over extremely long ranges, from concealed position. A silenced sniper rifle can rain down death from hundreds of feet away with no way of knowing where it is coming from, no spell in Harry Potter has ever been shown to "reveal where some guy is hiding in a 500 foot radius".

There IS a way to find the direction that sniper bullets come from. And it is another muggle technology using microphones, highly advanced microprocessors technology, and software based on the deep understanding of the physics of bullet flight and the propagation of sound. It may look like magic, but it's Science bitches!

And that's not all, what about IEDs, or as they are more conventionally known: Bombs. High explosives. Voldermort could be given a gift that is booby trapped to detonate a block of C4 within. The Russians have developed paper laced with such deadly poison that touching it kills you so quickly any antidote is impossible.

No so far demonstrated Harry-Potter magic exists to scan the contents of things for dangerous substances but that DOES exist with Muggle technology. Remote controlled robots with electronic sniffing devices and backscatter X-ray scanners however can.

I still think it would have been better if Our world and the Magic World were solidly separated as parallel universes. And that wizards can enter our universe but by some prime directive or something mostly don't get involved in our world, only visiting out of curiosity of what their world would be like without magic. And that the threat of Voldermort is to their magical world and the normal world is irrelevant. Yes, Harry could flee there the magical world though it would still live under tyranny.

So the issue of guns wouldn't exist as Harry being a 12 year old British kid knows hardly anything about guns, explosives or other weapons of war and assassination.

 

[Zakarath]

Yeah. A major point in the Dresden Files series of books is that as powerful as wizards are, they're still vulnerable to a bullet that they don't see coming. When someone fires a high-powered rifle with a flash supressor at you from long range, the bullet travels faster than the speed of sound. You have no warning up until the point it goes through your head, and I'd say that seeing as the wizards in Harry Potter don't go around with those force shields of theirs active, the point still stands. I understand that Harry doesn't have a sniper rifle, but the Ministry of magic was in contact with the muggle government. Get the SAS on the case .

 

[DoPo]

First is that, for whatever reason, the various mechanical and chemical processes that go into firing a gun don't quite take in high-magic areas, so it doesn't work for whatever reason.

Where has this been mentioned ever? I have no recollection of anybody explaining it in the Harry Potter's universe. In Harry Dresden's universe, however that is true. But that is a different one.

I'm making a conjecture as to what sort of reason might be given by someone defending that point, I'm not necessarily endorsing it. I'm pretty sure they've mentioned Muggle Tech as not functioning around magic, but I'm pretty sure that was limited to electronics. That said, it's not a far stretch to imagine that a volatile and unstable force that distorts the otherwise known laws of physics might, you know, distort the laws of physics.

But again, I'm just throwing conjecture as to what someone might say the reason was - and frankly, even if that was the case, I don't see how they could say something like a crossbow wouldn't work. That, and if the chemical processes that go into firing a gun would malfunction, the chemical processes that the human body constantly undergoes would definitely malfunction - Muggles would be exploding left and right.

In other words, you made that up. If it's not mentioned, nor hinted at, I could even say that bullets would be instantly fatal to wizards because MAGIC.

Also, other people have pointed out - electronics don't work around lots of wizards, not wizards in general. And that's is if we assume it's magic that screws them up. I can't remember at the moment, and I don't have the books to reference, but I don't think it was well explained why the whatever device that didn't work in Hogwards (was it a camera?), didn't work in Hogwards. It could have been a spell that prevented electronics from functioning.

At any rate, I keep mentioning that there are more tools than guns that could have been useful. None of them are used.

 

[Mr.FrigginMarvelous]

Honestly, the only reason I can think of is that it would have been way too hard for a seventeen year old boy to obtain a firearm in 90's Britian. They take gun control pretty seriously there.

 

[samaugsch]

I'm pretty sure Voldemort knows at least one spell that could stop 3 ounces of lead in mid-air.

But is he fast enough? How quick can he speak the words and wave his hands? I'll go ahead and assume he already holds the wand. He has to 1. Be aware of the possibility to be shot at 2. Be prepared 3. React instantaneously or in advance.

He has to be crazy prepared to stop a random bullet. Probably needs like a really detailed prediction for the future - nothing like "dark strangers" and all those metaphors. The prophesy actually needs to say "You will be shot on Monday the 17th of April at 13:43 - it will be a man with jeans and a dark hoodie. He won't have shaven that morning." that kind of detail...at which point, Voldemort can just avoid the situation.

He may know a spell that stops one bullet, but I doubt his reflexes are up to it. Even then, just shoot him again - how long can he keep intercepting the bullets? He'll Won't even be halfway through Avada and he can get shot twice.

EDIT:

Then there's the logical (read: boring nobody cares) answer, which is that Harry doesn't actually know how to use guns, and in a life-or-death situation he'd almost certainly miss and/or jam the bloody thing and then get murderised by Voldy's green death beam.

Well, I agree Harry is going to probably hurt others and himself much more than Voldie, but still he isn't the only character. There are tons of other people who'd like to stop Voldemort. Most of them are even adults. and seriously - a course in firearms last, how long? A month? Two months? Half a year? They've had a lot of time to prepare, it's not like Voldy appeared out of the nothing. There were years until he popped out. And more time afterwards.

I heard that the best wizards can cast spells without saying the words.

 

[Rylingo]

2. Bullshit. First off, most of the spells require either saying a two syllable word and making a motion with the wand and I doubt Volde could do that against a bullet. Secondly, Voldemort being the racist that he is wouldn't know what a gun is/does if he saw one so he wouldn't have anyway of anticipating the impending bullet.

First off, you are wrong. Spells do not require a two syllable word and a wand. Non-verbal magic is explained at length in the books. At length!
Secondly Voldermourt is a master at fighting. Extremely fast and probably capable of drawing and creating a spell at close to the same speed as a normal person drawing the gun alone.

Ultimately that is completely unimportant however as using legilimency Voldermourt would already have been aware of your gun. Any basic shield would deflect a projectile based weapon with ease.

The whole reason the stakes are high is because the magic world assumes that unless Harry stops volde the muggles wouldn't stand a chance... Truth of the matter is, and JK Rowling said so herself, that in a straight up war with the magical realm the muggles would win. We have vastly superior technology and armor, not to mention numbers.

In a straight up war? Why would voldermourt bother in a straight up war? He can literally teleport into the office of every world leader and take control of their mind, instantly.
If you think a mind controlling, teleporting, instant death spelled opponent is not a significant threat to the world then I don't know what to tell you.
Technology and weaponry is useless against an opponent who can strike from the shadows without inpunity.

In the books, the world is probably lucky Voldermourt considered the muggle world of lesser importance otherwise he could have ruined everything literally within days.

This is not a plot hole. You just don't know the subject matter well enough. If you want a real plot hole look to the port key in book 4.

Also, don't watch the movies. Read the books.

 

[DarkRyter]

Okay from the other topic, someone brought up the question about why they didn't just shoot Voldemort. Now I use to watch these movies with my ex and drive her up the wall with all my questions cause really a LOT of what the magic community does doesn't make sense and is overly pretentios, but this question I investigated in earnest.

Arguments the dim-witted harry potter fan gives as to why the gun wouldn't work...
1. Muggle technology doesn't work around magic.
2. Voldemort would just be able to stop the bullet with magic
3. Voldemort will keep regenerating until the horcruxes are destroyed
4. If they did that there wouldn't be a story.

well... heres my counter argument,

1. You tell me some sort of electronic device doesn't work, I get it. Theres no telling what a magical aura could do to electricity. However a gun is mechanical and chemical. I have to assume if a pully and rope can work in Harry's universe a revolver would work to. Maybe you could argue that the gun powder wouldn't combust... But an obvious solution to that would be just use the wizard-chemical-equalvelent of gun power. Then you got yourself a magic gun!

2. Bullshit. First off, most of the spells require either saying a two syllable word and making a motion with the wand and I doubt Volde could do that against a bullet. Secondly, Voldemort being the racist that he is wouldn't know what a gun is/does if he saw one so he wouldn't have anyway of anticipating the impending bullet.

3. So Voldemort comes back... Just keep shooting everytime he resurrects. It's not like it's instantaneous, and you could probably do it several times before he actually could come up with an effective counter... and even then, just have hermione snipe him from across the pond. The time granted (instead of being wasted fighting him with magic) would be invaluable in finding the remain horcruxes.

4. NO! I freaking hate this response, because all it is trying to cover up how poor the story really is. Hey, I get a kick out the series, but this is a glaring serious plot hole. The whole reason the stakes are high is because the magic world assumes that unless Harry stops volde the muggles wouldn't stand a chance... Truth of the matter is, and JK Rowling said so herself, that in a straight up war with the magical realm the muggles would win. We have vastly superior technology and armor, not to mention numbers.

The only reason, the only GOOD reason why they didn't shoot Voldemort is because Harry just plain didn't think of doing it... and seeing as how both he and hermione both came from the muggle world and never once even lampshaded it I see is a major flaw in the whole series.

Maybe there aren't guns in the Harry Potter universe. They were just never invented.

That would explain why they aren't mentioned.

 

[OldNewNewOld]

They are fans who take a book too seriously. There is no way to argue with stupidity. Imagining scenarios is fun but any actual arguments just makes me face palm.

All you would need is a nuke and bye bye hogwarts, even if you stop the blast the radiation will be there for years.

Not really, because the would wipe it all away and in fact stop the detonation in the first place.

You can't stop magic with science because you can handwave the science away with more magic if you want.

Oh, and btw, its a series of KIDS books. The OP is calling HP fans names, while actually spending real brain cells trying to disprove a kid's book about magic. Who's the dim witted one again?

"You can't stop magic with science because you can handwave the science away with more magic if you want."

This is precisely why I won't argue with HP fans over this as you can't ever win using common sense.

"its a series of KIDS books."

By book 6 I wouldn't call it a kids book, it's just so depressing and so it the next one except replace depressing with boring.

Wow... just wow.
You are mad because you can't use commune sense against fiction? Really?
It's a book about fucking MAGIC!

To OP
There is no commune sense in a universe which rules you don't know (1. because a wizard can also create a kinetic barrier which would stop any object moving faster than 20cm/s instantaneously). You don't know what Valdemort knows, you don't know what he can do (2. which is obvious because you don't even know that he can use magic without doing anything).

3. Also, he doesn't regenerate his body. He creates a new body. Even if you kill him once, you don't know where he will be "reborn". He will just prepare him self better and that's it. You lose.

4. Well duh. Ofc. it's a plot hole. Every story has some plot holes. You can't except that an author fills every hole because that would be impossible. Use your freaking imagination to fill those plot holes or stop reading and let others enjoy the books.


It's fiction for a reason. It's not reality. Things don't work the way they work in our universe.

 

[samaugsch]

The reason a gun would not work is that for a bullet to deal a fatal blow, it is required to rather hit a vital organ, poison the bloodstream, or cause significant shock/bleeding to kill. What many people do not take into account is that Voldemort is nothing but a physical manifestation of magic resembling his once-human form. He doesn't require a brain to think, a heart to beat, or anything like that. The body is just for appearance sake. Think of it like shooting a ghost. Maybe a magic/silver bullet would work though but not a regular gun.

Silver bullets would work nicely against the werewolves. ;D

 

[Smiley Face]

First is that, for whatever reason, the various mechanical and chemical processes that go into firing a gun don't quite take in high-magic areas, so it doesn't work for whatever reason.

Where has this been mentioned ever? I have no recollection of anybody explaining it in the Harry Potter's universe. In Harry Dresden's universe, however that is true. But that is a different one.

I'm making a conjecture as to what sort of reason might be given by someone defending that point, I'm not necessarily endorsing it. I'm pretty sure they've mentioned Muggle Tech as not functioning around magic, but I'm pretty sure that was limited to electronics. That said, it's not a far stretch to imagine that a volatile and unstable force that distorts the otherwise known laws of physics might, you know, distort the laws of physics.

But again, I'm just throwing conjecture as to what someone might say the reason was - and frankly, even if that was the case, I don't see how they could say something like a crossbow wouldn't work. That, and if the chemical processes that go into firing a gun would malfunction, the chemical processes that the human body constantly undergoes would definitely malfunction - Muggles would be exploding left and right.

In other words, you made that up. If it's not mentioned, nor hinted at, I could even say that bullets would be instantly fatal to wizards because MAGIC.

Also, other people have pointed out - electronics don't work around lots of wizards, not wizards in general. And that's is if we assume it's magic that screws them up. I can't remember at the moment, and I don't have the books to reference, but I don't think it was well explained why the whatever device that didn't work in Hogwards (was it a camera?), didn't work in Hogwards. It could have been a spell that prevented electronics from functioning.

At any rate, I keep mentioning that there are more tools than guns that could have been useful. None of them are used.

Yes, I made it up. That's because I agree with you. There's not really any good reason why it didn't happen, I'm just exploring a hypothetical train of thought as to how someone might try to justify it... and then I'm rejecting that train of thought, because it doesn't work. No need to get on my case. Harry Potter is plot-hole central.

 

[DoPo]

When someone fires a high-powered rifle with a flash supressor at you from long range, the bullet travels faster than the speed of sound. You have no warning up until the point it goes through your head

A random bit of info, that is completely offtopic - a normal bullet will give you some warning - when it breaks the sound barrier, there is a sonic boom, that is loud. It may not give you much of a warning but it's at least something. If nothing else, though, everybody around you will know you've been sniped. Now, subsonic ammunition, with a noise and flash suppressor will truly be stealthy. Yes, it's slower but the time it takes people figure out what's going on is priceless. Also, it would be seriously difficult to pin down where the shot came from.

 

[emeraldrafael]

I dont know, why didnt Ganondolf just use his magical god powers, or why didnt the giant eagle just fly the LotR party the whole way?

its a piece of fiction, and really, not that im even THAT much of a harry potter fan, but if you have to sit around and poke holes in a fictional universe made and marketed to kids, then whatever gains youre getting from it are still ultimately insignificant.

So yeah, this thread has been done before, and all its realy done is made each of the parties pretentious.

EDIT: besides, he doesnt really need a body so you're basically just giving a temporary solution to a long term problem.

 

[samaugsch]

I'm with you all the way. I loved Harry Potter, but I never understood why Voldemort never took a shotgun blast to the face.

I've always kind of hoped that American Wizards had magic guns, rather than wands. And you shot spells at people. If I was a wizard, I'd make it happen.

It could be kind of like from the Darkness games where you don't run out, or don't have to reload.

 

[dobahci]

Wow, this is a strange thread. There are tons of plot holes in the Harry Potter stories, but "Why didn't they just shoot Voldemort with a gun?" is not one of them. It falls under suspension of disbelief.

Besides, one of the major themes in the book is Harry's unwillingness to kill, or even attack his enemies. Even against Voldemort who is pretty much the Worst Guy Ever, he chooses to use the disarming spell rather than any attack spell, and even though a spell exists which kills someone instantly, Harry never uses it. A large portion of the final book revolved around Harry defeating Voldemort through his own willingness to sacrifice himself for what he believed in.

Having him just pull out a gun and shoot him would've undermined that message entirely.