the "Why didn't they just shoot Voldemort?" thread

[StBishop]

OP, The actual reason is because Harry has to destroy the Horcruxes to make Voldemort Mortal, If he'd done all the same shit including

Spoiler

dying

then just shot Voldemort rather than duelling him, it would have worked, but thematically within the structure of the book it would have been less interesting and seemed cheap and disingenuous.

you know what? i was just about to type a long argument, counter argument, and rebutle as to why harry should have shot volde, and then it hit me;

Spoiler: you ready? ok, get ready

[HEADING=1]FIREARMS ARE ILLEGAL IN ENGLAND[/HEADING]​

i felt so stupid for not realizing it sooner

Hogwarts is in Scotland.

Umadbro.jpeg

 

[gyroscopeboy]

You know what would be awesome? A book series where wizards are dying out because they havent evolved with the rest of humanity and are being slaughtered for being different...Im writing it!

 

[Treblaine]

I believe it's more than a clumsy attempt, she talks fondly and whimsically of this segregation. The popular character Hagrid is given the line that Wizards keep themselves secret so they don't have to solve their problems... as if famine, disease and war are petty problems muggles are just too lazy to fix themselves... when the wizards LITERALLY have a magic cure for it all. It's insultingly naive in what it proposes.

I would certainly agree that it is a tad insulting but I never thought the intent was to advertise the wonders of segregation but instead to simply having a magical fantasy series. Again though isolationism has been argued for by individuals in history and I am certain some individuals here would support the notion that the current hyper power should intervene less.

What I'm trying to get across is that segregation is different from isolation. The wizarding world can and has the ability to completely separate from the muggle world, which means it is entirely possible for the

And this is not some shitty B-movie where the few who watch laugh at it. Harry Potter is a BILLION DOLLAR series that MILLIONS of people absolutely adore and and inspired by. People dress up and imitate these characters. These ideas that the protagonists support, sympathetic characters we are supposed to relate to, these ideas can rub off

You seem to be getting perilously close to suggesting the concept of banning books due to unpalatable content which is something I am completely against.

Her work may not be homophobic but it kowtows to homophobia for greed and self interest. It's a squandered opportunity to do something to quash the homophobia that seems to be built into all of us and that we should grow out of, though many don't. It's especially prevalent in pubescence, when sexual distinctions begin being made, homosexuality can very easily seem dangerous and people react negatively.

I don't find it homophobic in any form. I also don't find the idea that she didn't devote her books to "quash the homophobia" to be an argument against it. She also didn't devote a lot of her book to railing against bad corporate practices, the surveillance state, the destruction of the environment, etc. Because not every book has to be or even should have the express purpose of enhancing someone's conscious of some societal ill.

Isolationism is distinct from segregationism as a matter of geography. Countries separated by mountains and seas that don't go to the effort of making ports and paths are isolationists. Two communities that live directly next to each other and even within each other yet forbid mingling and fair exchange, that's segregation. The exercised power to deliberately separate is segregation. Isolationism is simply NOT using your power to overcome natural obstacles to connect people.

If Rowling wanted isolationism rather than segregation, then she should have written that the wizarding world was in Parallel dimension or some other location that meant it was always a huge effort for any wizard to break into the muggle world (like open a portal). But she didn't. Part of the appeal is this is a secret world that Harry discovers he can enter only because he has the "right blood".

"You seem to be getting perilously close to suggesting the concept of banning books due to unpalatable content which is something I am completely against."

Not at all. YOU however seem to be resorting to hyperbole for fallacy. To take my literary criticism as an endorsement of fascist-like censorship of banning literature betrays your own prejudice. Yes, only fascists would ban something like Harry Potter. I never called for anything like that, and I'm INSULTED at the baseless suggestion! I'm not even saying people shouldn't ever read Harry Potter (small children), I'm just saying adults should recognise these books for the negative ideas they propose.

I don't want to ban the bible either, I'm just going to encourage people not to take it seriously and to recognise the negative things it proposes.

I say: "Her work may not be homophobic"
You say: "I don't find it homophobic in any form."

You are arguing in agreement! I am alleging intellectual dishonesty and greed. It's like if she said Harry was a communist yet always showed him in favour of capitalism and never took any stance against capitalist business practices. That is my issue.

 

[Treblaine]

you know what? i was just about to type a long argument, counter argument, and rebutle as to why harry should have shot volde, and then it hit me;

[HEADING=1]FIREARMS ARE ILLEGAL IN ENGLAND[/HEADING]​

i felt so stupid for not realizing it sooner

Murder is also illegal... somehow that doesn't stop Voldemort

Also, Three letters: S A S

Yes, the Special Air Services, arguably the best special forces organisation in the world. They have guns and they know how to use them. The muggle Prime Minister was informed and Rowling has said over and over again that Hogwarts is in the UK just muggles can somehow never find it, so the UK government has jurisdiction here and they can certainly use guns. Wizard can lead them there and set up a killzone of sniper fire.

 

[Rylingo]

Then why does even Voldemort verbalise every spell he casts?

He doesn't. There a few times he goes for direct thought. Off the top of my head, when he merges his body with Harrys at the end of book 5.

And are you saying a non-verbal spell requires concentration and if disturbed or distracted it may not work or "backfire"? How would a "repell bullets" spell backfire? Suck the bullets into his cranium? This is hugely impractical, it's easy to aim a gun. You can drop a baker's dozen of JDAMs from 60'000 feet and realise Voldemort probably doesn't even realise what this technology is.

Backfire was a bad word. Often when spells fail they don't do the reverse, they just cause a small explosion injuring the caster. Neville's did this constantly in the earlier books until his spell casting improved in the later books.

The problem with JDAMs is the Voldermourt still hangs around in unplottable areas most of the time. This will completely screw the GPS on those.
I think by far the biggest danger to him is a wizard, sniper pairing. 5 snipers, 5 wizards split into pairs. The sniper blasts voldermourt whilst the wizard can repel his dementor entourage or remove muggle warding off charms which would distract the snipers. You'd still need to know his position though.

What about casting a killing spell over hundreds of feet, which is some zappy something that kills people bloodlessly. Voldemort obviously couldn't do that as when outside the besieged Hogwarts he didn't cast the Killing curse over that distance.

Bellatrix in the 5th book stated that the unforgiveable curses need a lot more power (Harry failed to torture her). The reason why the death eaters don't all constantly use the killing curse is because it probably tires them a little. Im just spitballing here but the reason voldey didn't fire the killing curse from that distance might not be to do with his accuracy rather wasting his energy when he knew he might have to spend several hours dueling other wizards. But...I can't be sure.

And don't doubt the power of a .308 hollow point to the centre mass, it'll blow a hole the size of a bowling ball and the shockwave through the body will be like as if every inch of their flesh has been hit by Mike Tyson's strongest punch all at the same moment. It will deliver a fatal blow and even if it doesn't kill instantly you'll be utterly disoriented by the shock of the impact, your ribs flying apart and slamming back together.

Sniping would be the preferred muggle way of killing him. I never doubted that. If Voldey was extremely disoriented after having a massive chunk of his torso removed he wouldn't be able to heal quick enough before taking another shot. If (a big if), he maintained enough presence to attempt to teleport out, the difficulty in doing Apparating would very likely end with him being splinched(torn in half) by it. If (another big if) he did manage to cast the killing curse chances are he wouldn't hit his target and even if he did, he wouldn't have enough energy to follow up with anything else to save hims own life.

This "mere inconvenience" is worth it. The SAS could get this shit sorted out VERY quickly. They've deal with worse guys than Voldemort on weekend operations.

No they haven't. Voldermourts main danger isn't his outright battling strength more his legilimency and imperio (mind control). If Voldermourt struck first he could destabilise society. He could destabilise the inner workings of the SAS. All it would take would be for him to read the mind of a higher member of government. Gain some names of SAS members. Take control of them. Use them to take control of others. Order them to assassinate the other members etc. No trust. No support.
Not that the SAS has always had a great record. Things didn't work so well with them in Northern Ireland for them.

Rowling has created a "wonderful whimsical world" that seems to be permanently set in the dark ages of pre-enlightenment claptrap. Harry is never taught about evolution nor so many of the other fundamental aspects of our world.

As long as Hermione is around him, he'll be fine:

Whereas aircraft is statistically the safest way to travel and practical en mass. Yet Wizards are too bloody proud to use muggle technology... is Voldemort REALLY such an elitist extremist relative to this community? Or is he tilling RIPE ground of prejudice with the luddite wizarding community? Even the Weasleys.

Apparition isn't the only way to travel instantaneously travel. Port keys are safe as is the flu network unless you mess up the name. Its worth it for that speed of travel.

There is also the cases where Wizarding World's magical powers could save MILLIONS of muggle lives with ease, yet they don't. Jerks.

Pretty much.

 

[Treblaine]

Epic snip, click through please

Hmm, wizard-warrior and muggle-infantry combination. Nice idea.

I'm also sure there must be a muggle solution to imperio. I think definitely if they worked WITH the wizarding folk they could find a solution, the physical mode that imperio works, maybe some mental conditioning, implant or even a special veil to block the influence. This would be a great way to defeat a divisive force such as Voldemort... with unity.

Voldemort's legitimacy is also something SAS has dealt with before, fighting against warlords who have large local and armed support.

I'm still not a fan of port keys. If I mispronounce a name when ordering a flight they don't accidentally kick me out of a plane in the mid-atlantic.


EDIT: Your idea that the Killing Curse takes a significant amount of finite personal "energy" to deliver, seemingly geometrically worse over distance is discouraging for magic. And this is apparently the only explicitly lethal spell in this wizarding world.

With a belt fed machine gun any competent person with reasonable training can fire hundreds-of-bullet per minute, continuously for hours on end, killing people up to 10'000 feet away.

And that was the state of "muggle" firearm technology... over 100 years ago...

Today such weapons are hand held, cheap and controllable.

There is also the cases where Wizarding World's magical powers could save MILLIONS of muggle lives with ease, yet they don't. Jerks.

Pretty much.

Yeah, and to me that has loomed over the series for me.

 

[Treblaine]

Another thing I'd like to add is that the wands are effectively pistols with unlimited ammo. Essentially, they are already using guns, with higher level spells being the equivalent of rocket launchers or artillery. For the purposes of killing, guns don't really offer anything they don't already have.

Except sniper rifles. Most of the magic is either close and personal (magic wands), distant and indirect (big firestorms and such), or far away, individual, and slow (curses). A weapon that individually and instantly kills from very far away looks to be outside the realms of magic.

[HEADING=1]FIREARMS ARE ILLEGAL IN ENGLAND[/HEADING]​

Real fridge logic [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeLogic] moment here: This poses an interesting legal dilemma, as in England (and Scotland where Hogwarts is located) not only are all firearms illegal but all "offensive weapons" are illegal. It is illegal to own a knife that is "designed for harm" except for those item of prior historical interest, and of course exceptions for government (military).

But aren't wands offensive weapons?

What would some gun-banning politician think if they knew TWELVE YEAR OLDS were being given devices that with the right magic could absolutely and utterly kill people? You could argue a child isn't capable of that... but if a "muggle" child is capable of learning Pi to a thousand digits, or compose musical symphonies, I don't think we should make assumptions of what none of them are possibly capable of.

But even adults, UK abhors the idea of people wandering around with a weapon. Yet that is precisely what witches and wizards do.

So not only do this unrepresentative group practice apartheid, also scorn muggle ways but feel they are the only ones to be armed. Sounds pretty bad when you put it that way and the only way to make that look good is to distort it by omission of details.

 

[mega48man]

you know what? i was just about to type a long argument, counter argument, and rebutle as to why harry should have shot volde, and then it hit me;

[HEADING=1]FIREARMS ARE ILLEGAL IN ENGLAND[/HEADING]​

i felt so stupid for not realizing it sooner

Murder is also illegal... somehow that doesn't stop Voldemort

Also, Three letters: S A S

Yes, the Special Air Services, arguably the best special forces organisation in the world. They have guns and they know how to use them. The muggle Prime Minister was informed and Rowling has said over and over again that Hogwarts is in the UK just muggles can somehow never find it, so the UK government has jurisdiction here and they can certainly use guns. Wizard can lead them there and set up a killzone of sniper fire.

T_T

Price: ghost, do you read me?
ghost: load and clear, soap and i and ready
price: voldemort is the prize. keep low and follow my lead
soap: so what's with these wizards? there's no telling what they can do
ghost: right, we gotta hit 'em quietly and fast
price: aye. HOLD UP, one group up ahead, let them pass
...
price: ok drop 'em

PFT PFT PFFTPFT PFT

soap: tangos down
price: wolcroft, held me hide the bodies. soap, you and ghost get yourselves to the next wing
ghost: next corridor, go go go!
price: place C4 charges under that bridge for when they come out of the forest
soap: aye, the'll never know what hit 'em



as kick ass as it sounds, we're not talking about a full scale bag n' tag sweep like in every kick ass British level of Modern warfare, we're talking about a citizen purchasing a weapon. to send in the SAS (whom i'm assuming are all muggles) would be to break the biggest rules of the magic world;

#1. no muggles can see wizards use magic, that was the whole point of platform 9 3/4 and ron's invisble car, which then snap snapped at them for getting nearly caught.
#2. no muggle related interfering with the wizardry world, that's the prime minister's director order.

now let me remind you, firearms are not permitted for sale in the UK under law, no one can buy one. there is no rights to bear arms, no army surplus, and probably a very small black market, they're are not tolerated what so ever. MI5 can carry them though, but their super secret spies and stuff. now harry, ron, and hermione are not super secret MI5 spies, they are british citizens...actually, just harry is. hermione erased herself from the real world and ron grew up in the wizardry world. so they cannot buy a gun unless they traveled to america to buy one then traveled all the way back to hogwrats, and voldemort would of killed everyone by then.

 

[mega48man]

Another thing I'd like to add is that the wands are effectively pistols with unlimited ammo. Essentially, they are already using guns, with higher level spells being the equivalent of rocket launchers or artillery. For the purposes of killing, guns don't really offer anything they don't already have.

Except sniper rifles. Most of the magic is either close and personal (magic wands), distant and indirect (big firestorms and such), or far away, individual, and slow (curses). A weapon that individually and instantly kills from very far away looks to be outside the realms of magic.

[HEADING=1]FIREARMS ARE ILLEGAL IN ENGLAND[/HEADING]​

Real fridge logic [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeLogic] moment here: This poses an interesting legal dilemma, as in England (and Scotland where Hogwarts is located) not only are all firearms illegal but all "offensive weapons" are illegal. It is illegal to own a knife that is "designed for harm" except for those item of prior historical interest, and of course exceptions for government (military).

But aren't wands offensive weapons?

What would some gun-banning politician think if they knew TWELVE YEAR OLDS were being given devices that with the right magic could absolutely and utterly kill people? You could argue a child isn't capable of that... but if a "muggle" child is capable of learning Pi to a thousand digits, or compose musical symphonies, I don't think we should make assumptions of what none of them are possibly capable of.

But even adults, UK abhors the idea of people wandering around with a weapon. Yet that is precisely what witches and wizards do.

So not only do this unrepresentative group practice apartheid, also scorn muggle ways but feel they are the only ones to be armed. Sounds pretty bad when you put it that way and the only way to make that look good is to distort it by omission of details.

parliment and the ministry of magic have separate jurdistictions over their realms. wands are used for everyday things, like putting a star on a christmas tree or opening up a secret appartment complex, banning wands because people can use them to kill is like taking away fast food restaurants because the food gives a few people heart attacks, it's a matter of necessary discretion.

imagine everyone in the world had a gun, but guns were used as back scrachers, getting things in high places, cleaning, putting in light bulbs, ordinary things (it sounds so silly!) but no one knew about bullets than go in them, except for a certain bald headed terrorist and his lackeys, who carried many bullets and used them on people. now instead of banning the thing people need every day, the government bans the bullets instead.

like wise, the ministry of magic has made it clear by law that the use of the 3 unforgivable spells (the ones mentioned in the 4th book) are illegal to use. ban the spells, not the spell casting device.

 

[blackrave]

About regeneration
Could Voldemort regenerate his head after encounter with 50.cal
I don't think so
Some people don't realize how much kinetic power high caliber rounds actually have
Even if bullet misses and goes NEXT to the neck, blastwave will simply rip apart blood vessels (potentially lethal injury)
So with right ammunition and good shooter there will be no head left at all
Regenerate this!

 

[Treblaine]

Another thing I'd like to add is that the wands are effectively pistols with unlimited ammo. Essentially, they are already using guns, with higher level spells being the equivalent of rocket launchers or artillery. For the purposes of killing, guns don't really offer anything they don't already have.

Except sniper rifles. Most of the magic is either close and personal (magic wands), distant and indirect (big firestorms and such), or far away, individual, and slow (curses). A weapon that individually and instantly kills from very far away looks to be outside the realms of magic.

[HEADING=1]FIREARMS ARE ILLEGAL IN ENGLAND[/HEADING]​

Real fridge logic [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeLogic] moment here: This poses an interesting legal dilemma, as in England (and Scotland where Hogwarts is located) not only are all firearms illegal but all "offensive weapons" are illegal. It is illegal to own a knife that is "designed for harm" except for those item of prior historical interest, and of course exceptions for government (military).

But aren't wands offensive weapons?

What would some gun-banning politician think if they knew TWELVE YEAR OLDS were being given devices that with the right magic could absolutely and utterly kill people? You could argue a child isn't capable of that... but if a "muggle" child is capable of learning Pi to a thousand digits, or compose musical symphonies, I don't think we should make assumptions of what none of them are possibly capable of.

But even adults, UK abhors the idea of people wandering around with a weapon. Yet that is precisely what witches and wizards do.

So not only do this unrepresentative group practice apartheid, also scorn muggle ways but feel they are the only ones to be armed. Sounds pretty bad when you put it that way and the only way to make that look good is to distort it by omission of details.

parliment and the ministry of magic have separate jurdistictions over their realms. wands are used for everyday things, like putting a star on a christmas tree or opening up a secret appartment complex, banning wands because people can use them to kill is like taking away fast food restaurants because the food gives a few people heart attacks, it's a matter of necessary discretion.

imagine everyone in the world had a gun, but guns were used as back scrachers, getting things in high places, cleaning, putting in light bulbs, ordinary things (it sounds so silly!) but no one knew about bullets than go in them, except for a certain bald headed terrorist and his lackeys, who carried many bullets and used them on people. now instead of banning the thing people need every day, the government bans the bullets instead.

like wise, the ministry of magic has made it clear by law that the use of the 3 unforgivable spells (the ones mentioned in the 4th book) are illegal to use. ban the spells, not the spell casting device.

So not only do the Wizards practice apartheid from the muggles who have the "wrong blood" but they have a double standard on the law and ON TOP OF THAT is seem the Ministry of Magic is the highest authority with no apparent democracy. It's a dictatorship. Within the UK! Why would the prime minister submit to these wizards ceeding from the UK - within the UK - unless by threat of brainwashing.

These wizards are utter bastards!

Making wands illegal but USING them to kill is like making pistols legal but merely make it illegal to murder people with it, which is redundant as murder is illegal ANYWAY! Killing curse is clearly legal (by the Wizard's racist apartheid laws) to own or even use on non-humans animals as Alastor Moody used the killing curse on a Spider without arising any investigation or imprisonment.

It's not significantly different from South Africa where whites are allowed to walk around with loaded pistols on their hip but blacks can't so much as have a penknife.

And guns do have use other than killing people, which of course can be reasonable for self defence (especially with military). They are used for accurately firing lead at high velocity that may be for hunting, pest control, target-shooting sport, or just the joy of plinking.

"back scrachers, getting things in high places, cleaning, putting in light bulbs, ordinary things (it sounds so silly!)"

Wizards are either extraordinarily lazy or incompetent. You mean they can't get a ladder? They can't even screw in a lightbulb?

 

[Treblaine]

you know what? i was just about to type a long argument, counter argument, and rebutle as to why harry should have shot volde, and then it hit me;

[HEADING=1]FIREARMS ARE ILLEGAL IN ENGLAND[/HEADING]​

i felt so stupid for not realizing it sooner

Murder is also illegal... somehow that doesn't stop Voldemort

Also, Three letters: S A S

Yes, the Special Air Services, arguably the best special forces organisation in the world. They have guns and they know how to use them. The muggle Prime Minister was informed and Rowling has said over and over again that Hogwarts is in the UK just muggles can somehow never find it, so the UK government has jurisdiction here and they can certainly use guns. Wizard can lead them there and set up a killzone of sniper fire.

T_T

Price: ghost, do you read me?
ghost: load and clear, soap and i and ready
price: voldemort is the prize. keep low and follow my lead
soap: so what's with these wizards? there's no telling what they can do
ghost: right, we gotta hit 'em quietly and fast
price: aye. HOLD UP, one group up ahead, let them pass
...
price: ok drop 'em

PFT PFT PFFTPFT PFT

soap: tangos down
price: wolcroft, held me hide the bodies. soap, you and ghost get yourselves to the next wing
ghost: next corridor, go go go!
price: place C4 charges under that bridge for when they come out of the forest
soap: aye, the'll never know what hit 'em



as kick ass as it sounds, we're not talking about a full scale bag n' tag sweep like in every kick ass British level of Modern warfare, we're talking about a citizen purchasing a weapon. to send in the SAS (whom i'm assuming are all muggles) would be to break the biggest rules of the magic world;

#1. no muggles can see wizards use magic, that was the whole point of platform 9 3/4 and ron's invisble car, which then snap snapped at them for getting nearly caught.
#2. no muggle related interfering with the wizardry world, that's the prime minister's director order.

now let me remind you, firearms are not permitted for sale in the UK under law, no one can buy one. there is no rights to bear arms, no army surplus, and probably a very small black market, they're are not tolerated what so ever. MI5 can carry them though, but their super secret spies and stuff. now harry, ron, and hermione are not super secret MI5 spies, they are british citizens...actually, just harry is. hermione erased herself from the real world and ron grew up in the wizardry world. so they cannot buy a gun unless they traveled to america to buy one then traveled all the way back to hogwrats, and voldemort would of killed everyone by then.

Well, I DID point out how the Prime Minister had been informed, so he could send the SAS.

And by the way, UK citizens do (with the right paperwork) have access to some pretty considerable firepower. Most notably high power precision rifles, called hunting rifles they are in fact indistinguishable from hunting rifles, they are designed to instantly and painlessly kill a 200lbs Deer from hundreds of feet away.

Anyway, they've got magic! They could magic their arse into a MoD weapons armoury and make off with any hardware they want. Then combine with magic.

"no muggle related interfering with the wizardry world, that's the prime minister's director order."

Even if the PM agreed to that without blackmail or brainwashing, I doubt he'd still hold that opinion IF he knew that Voldemort was persecuting and murdering Muggles.

Captcha: umbrella corporation

 

[Atmos Duality]

About regeneration
Could Voldemort regenerate his head after encounter with 50.cal
I don't think so
Some people don't realize how much kinetic power high caliber rounds actually have
Even if bullet misses and goes NEXT to the neck, blastwave will simply rip apart blood vessels (potentially lethal injury)
So with right ammunition and good shooter there will be no head left at all
Regenerate this!

He regenerated from being violently immolated off the back of another man's head.
HE REGENERATED FROM ASHES, mind you. Virtually nothing.

Your .50 cal bullet is no match for his Plot Armor, sorry.
In order to win, you must defeat his Plot Armor.

 

[mega48man]

Another thing I'd like to add is that the wands are effectively pistols with unlimited ammo. Essentially, they are already using guns, with higher level spells being the equivalent of rocket launchers or artillery. For the purposes of killing, guns don't really offer anything they don't already have.

Except sniper rifles. Most of the magic is either close and personal (magic wands), distant and indirect (big firestorms and such), or far away, individual, and slow (curses). A weapon that individually and instantly kills from very far away looks to be outside the realms of magic.

[HEADING=1]FIREARMS ARE ILLEGAL IN ENGLAND[/HEADING]​

Real fridge logic [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeLogic] moment here: This poses an interesting legal dilemma, as in England (and Scotland where Hogwarts is located) not only are all firearms illegal but all "offensive weapons" are illegal. It is illegal to own a knife that is "designed for harm" except for those item of prior historical interest, and of course exceptions for government (military).

But aren't wands offensive weapons?

What would some gun-banning politician think if they knew TWELVE YEAR OLDS were being given devices that with the right magic could absolutely and utterly kill people? You could argue a child isn't capable of that... but if a "muggle" child is capable of learning Pi to a thousand digits, or compose musical symphonies, I don't think we should make assumptions of what none of them are possibly capable of.

But even adults, UK abhors the idea of people wandering around with a weapon. Yet that is precisely what witches and wizards do.

So not only do this unrepresentative group practice apartheid, also scorn muggle ways but feel they are the only ones to be armed. Sounds pretty bad when you put it that way and the only way to make that look good is to distort it by omission of details.

parliment and the ministry of magic have separate jurdistictions over their realms. wands are used for everyday things, like putting a star on a christmas tree or opening up a secret appartment complex, banning wands because people can use them to kill is like taking away fast food restaurants because the food gives a few people heart attacks, it's a matter of necessary discretion.

imagine everyone in the world had a gun, but guns were used as back scrachers, getting things in high places, cleaning, putting in light bulbs, ordinary things (it sounds so silly!) but no one knew about bullets than go in them, except for a certain bald headed terrorist and his lackeys, who carried many bullets and used them on people. now instead of banning the thing people need every day, the government bans the bullets instead.

like wise, the ministry of magic has made it clear by law that the use of the 3 unforgivable spells (the ones mentioned in the 4th book) are illegal to use. ban the spells, not the spell casting device.

So not only do the Wizards practice apartheid from the muggles who have the "wrong blood" but they have a double standard on the law and ON TOP OF THAT is seem the Ministry of Magic is the highest authority with no apparent democracy. It's a dictatorship. Within the UK! Why would the prime minister submit to these wizards ceeding from the UK - within the UK - unless by threat of brainwashing.

These wizards are utter bastards!

Making wands illegal but USING them to kill is like making pistols legal but merely make it illegal to murder people with it, which is redundant as murder is illegal ANYWAY! Killing curse is clearly legal (by the Wizard's racist apartheid laws) to own or even use on non-humans animals as Alastor Moody used the killing curse on a Spider without arising any investigation or imprisonment.

It's not significantly different from South Africa where whites are allowed to walk around with loaded pistols on their hip but blacks can't so much as have a penknife.

And guns do have use other than killing people, which of course can be reasonable for self defence (especially with military). They are used for accurately firing lead at high velocity that may be for hunting, pest control, target-shooting sport, or just the joy of plinking.

"back scrachers, getting things in high places, cleaning, putting in light bulbs, ordinary things (it sounds so silly!)"

Wizards are either extraordinarily lazy or incompetent. You mean they can't get a ladder? They can't even screw in a lightbulb?

wizards can use their wands to make a ladder magically float to them for them to use, then get ridiculed by their friends for being impractical

fuck light bulbs, wizards got floating candles, bitches love floating candles. no onto seriousness;

wtf? the ministry of magic doesn't practice apartied! notice how harry had been living under a staircase his entire childhood, or how hermione has muggle parents. Voldemort wants an apartied, or a genocide, or both. in order to get to platform 9 and 3/4, one must go to the muggle train station in the muggle world.

this whole thing about the wands is going over my head now.

and yes of course guns can be used for back scrachers, getting things in high places, cleaning, putting in light bulbs, ordinary things. use your brain

 

[mega48man]

you know what? i was just about to type a long argument, counter argument, and rebutle as to why harry should have shot volde, and then it hit me;

[HEADING=1]FIREARMS ARE ILLEGAL IN ENGLAND[/HEADING]​

i felt so stupid for not realizing it sooner

Murder is also illegal... somehow that doesn't stop Voldemort

Also, Three letters: S A S

Yes, the Special Air Services, arguably the best special forces organisation in the world. They have guns and they know how to use them. The muggle Prime Minister was informed and Rowling has said over and over again that Hogwarts is in the UK just muggles can somehow never find it, so the UK government has jurisdiction here and they can certainly use guns. Wizard can lead them there and set up a killzone of sniper fire.

T_T

Price: ghost, do you read me?
ghost: load and clear, soap and i and ready
price: voldemort is the prize. keep low and follow my lead
soap: so what's with these wizards? there's no telling what they can do
ghost: right, we gotta hit 'em quietly and fast
price: aye. HOLD UP, one group up ahead, let them pass
...
price: ok drop 'em

PFT PFT PFFTPFT PFT

soap: tangos down
price: wolcroft, held me hide the bodies. soap, you and ghost get yourselves to the next wing
ghost: next corridor, go go go!
price: place C4 charges under that bridge for when they come out of the forest
soap: aye, the'll never know what hit 'em



as kick ass as it sounds, we're not talking about a full scale bag n' tag sweep like in every kick ass British level of Modern warfare, we're talking about a citizen purchasing a weapon. to send in the SAS (whom i'm assuming are all muggles) would be to break the biggest rules of the magic world;

#1. no muggles can see wizards use magic, that was the whole point of platform 9 3/4 and ron's invisble car, which then snap snapped at them for getting nearly caught.
#2. no muggle related interfering with the wizardry world, that's the prime minister's director order.

now let me remind you, firearms are not permitted for sale in the UK under law, no one can buy one. there is no rights to bear arms, no army surplus, and probably a very small black market, they're are not tolerated what so ever. MI5 can carry them though, but their super secret spies and stuff. now harry, ron, and hermione are not super secret MI5 spies, they are british citizens...actually, just harry is. hermione erased herself from the real world and ron grew up in the wizardry world. so they cannot buy a gun unless they traveled to america to buy one then traveled all the way back to hogwrats, and voldemort would of killed everyone by then.

Well, I DID point out how the Prime Minister had been informed, so he could send the SAS.

And by the way, UK citizens do (with the right paperwork) have access to some pretty considerable firepower. Most notably high power precision rifles, called hunting rifles they are in fact indistinguishable from hunting rifles, they are designed to instantly and painlessly kill a 200lbs Deer from hundreds of feet away.

Anyway, they've got magic! They could magic their arse into a MoD weapons armoury and make off with any hardware they want. Then combine with magic.

"no muggle related interfering with the wizardry world, that's the prime minister's director order."

Even if the PM agreed to that without blackmail or brainwashing, I doubt he'd still hold that opinion IF he knew that Voldemort was persecuting and murdering Muggles.

Captcha: umbrella corporation

lol, umbrella corporation.

well you might be right with the PM sending a task force if he knew voldemort was going on a killing spree, but let's be honest here, if men in black and world news has taught me anything, it's that the world's governments are willing to go to great measures to cover things up if they don't want people to know about them.

either that or the PM will have it handled by certain top men....TOP men...

 

[isometry]

He would just heal the wound after the bullet hit him. Bullets don't kill instantly.

 

[Treblaine]

wizards can use their wands to make a ladder magically float to them for them to use, then get ridiculed by their friends for being impractical

fuck light bulbs, wizards got floating candles, bitches love floating candles. no onto seriousness;

wtf? the ministry of magic doesn't practice apartied! notice how harry had been living under a staircase his entire childhood, or how hermione has muggle parents. Voldemort wants an apartied, or a genocide, or both. in order to get to platform 9 and 3/4, one must go to the muggle train station in the muggle world.

this whole thing about the wands is going over my head now.

and yes of course guns can be used for back scrachers, getting things in high places, cleaning, putting in light bulbs, ordinary things. use your brain

Or they could walk over and pick up the ladder. Why is this ability not being made available for the severely disabled instead of being messed around with by a physically able wizard elite?

I think Harry was PURPOSEFULLY hidden in the muggle world, from Voldemort's more murderous sympathisers and it seems they aren't such a tiny minority of wizards.

The books never adequately explain why Hermione has magical powers yet both muggle parents to spite every other example, it is never clarified if both her parents are also her biological progenitors. And if it is true that all muggles have this capability then it is not racial apartheid, it's extraordinary cultural elitism. As if expecting 12 year olds to spontaneously learn how to read and write before they will be admitted into school.

Why do the wizards selfishly guard this knowledge? This divide is a major problem that the books never adequately address.

Going through a muggle train station is irrelevant. Obviously to leave the muggle world you at some point have to be in the muggle world.

I just gave you a load of important functional and non-murderous uses of firearms and you've only give the most trivial uses for wands. I can go on, far more than the obvious that guns can be used to scratch you back, may sound foolish but considering how dangerous wands are I would be equally reluctant to point the business in my direction as with a gun.

And when Parliament debates the various anti-weapon laws they always throw out the many functional uses of such powerful tools of destruction as VOID by the harm you can do with them. Take for example the knife laws, it is in fact totally illegal to carry a knife on your person regardless of how useful knives are as general utility tools. Only workmen may transport knives like box-cutter knives while going to and from their official business.

 

[mega48man]

Or they could walk over and pick up the ladder. Why is this ability not being made available for the severely disabled instead of being messed around with by a physically able wizard elite?

I think Harry was PURPOSEFULLY hidden in the muggle world, from Voldemort's more murderous sympathisers and it seems they aren't such a tiny minority of wizards.

The books never adequately explain why Hermione has magical powers yet both muggle parents to spite every other example, it is never clarified if both her parents are also her biological progenitors. And if it is true that all muggles have this capability then it is not racial apartheid, it's extraordinary cultural elitism. As if expecting 12 year olds to spontaneously learn how to read and write before they will be admitted into school.

Why do the wizards selfishly guard this knowledge? This divide is a major problem that the books never adequately address.

Going through a muggle train station is irrelevant. Obviously to leave the muggle world you at some point have to be in the muggle world.

I just gave you a load of important functional and non-murderous uses of firearms and you've only give the most trivial uses for wands. I can go on, far more than the obvious that guns can be used to scratch you back, may sound foolish but considering how dangerous wands are I would be equally reluctant to point the business in my direction as with a gun.

And when Parliament debates the various anti-weapon laws they always throw out the many functional uses of such powerful tools of destruction as VOID by the harm you can do with them. Take for example the knife laws, it is in fact totally illegal to carry a knife on your person regardless of how useful knives are as general utility tools. Only workmen may transport knives like box-cutter knives while going to and from their official business.

yes, harry was hidden on purpose, voldemort was so racist against muggles he was all like "nah, harry's a wizard, he's gotta be in the wizard world, put 2 and 2 together" and dumbledore was all like "#best plan ever"

hermione's either adopted or magic is a recessive gene

yes, muggle train station, however it wouldn't need to be there if wizards never left the wizardry world in the first place, right? look at the weaslys, they live in the wizardry world yet we first meet them in the muggle world, so the idea of there being a secret apartied between muggles and wizards is right out the window and falls down a million foot drop on to sharp pointy rocks resulting in instant painful death.

i shouldn't need to give a list of uses for wands, just watch the movies. oculo repairo, expecto pertronum, stupify, expeliruamsussjblehksjdbg, wingardium leviOOOOOOsah not levioSAAAAAAAh, and a ton of other useful shit.

 

[Treblaine]

yes, muggle train station, however it wouldn't need to be there if wizards never left the wizardry world in the first place, right? look at the weaslys, they live in the wizardry world yet we first meet them in the muggle world, so the idea of there being a secret apartied between muggles and wizards is right out the window and falls down a million foot drop on to sharp pointy rocks resulting in instant painful death.

You may just have been fortunate never to have experienced racial segregation, or not been fortunate enough to be educated on it, but apartheid/segregation is not that they NEVER come in contact. The segregated groups walk the same streets and may use the same large municipalities, but they are de-facto divided in opportunities and ability to interact. For example in a black-white racially segregated society, Whites would have their own station platform and only whites would be allowed on there, their own train. I think even you must have heard how in the Deep South of Antebellum America black people were forced to sit at the back of the bus. Muggle's can't even get on the platform let alone the train!

 

[mega48man]

yes, muggle train station, however it wouldn't need to be there if wizards never left the wizardry world in the first place, right? look at the weaslys, they live in the wizardry world yet we first meet them in the muggle world, so the idea of there being a secret apartied between muggles and wizards is right out the window and falls down a million foot drop on to sharp pointy rocks resulting in instant painful death.

You may just have been fortunate never to have experienced racial segregation, or not been fortunate enough to be educated on it, but apartheid/segregation is not that they NEVER come in contact. The segregated groups walk the same streets and may use the same large municipalities, but they are de-facto divided in opportunities and ability to interact. For example in a black-white racially segregated society, Whites would have their own station platform and only whites would be allowed on there, their own train. I think even you must have heard how in the Deep South of Antebellum America black people were forced to sit at the back of the bus. Muggle's can't even get on the platform let alone the train!

ah, but you see the muggles aren't aware of wizards existence, so everyone's the same to them. in a real de-facto segregation, people would be all like "oh hey, that's persons black, use the back of the bus please"
but for muggles it's like "oh hey, you're wearing a suit just like me, we're not that different"
"indeed...what are the odds"

so if the muggles aren't aware, no hard feelings right? besides, it's not so much of a secret segregation as it is a government contrived cover-up to protect national interests. blacks had a glorius civil rights movement while wizards have a memory removal spell.