Dexter, I just want to say that I fully agree with you. Good posts, all that.Dexter111 said:snip
Now I wanna replay Assassins of Kings and then maybe Baldur's Gate!
Dexter, I just want to say that I fully agree with you. Good posts, all that.Dexter111 said:snip
Eh i know,i know, when one bashes people's hard work for a living, it's hard to be on the receiving endrsvp42 said:No, but seriously, there's no need to resort to ad hominem attacks like that when you already have a perfectly defensible position. Make your case, but don't insult the reviewer. No need to make yourself sound hurt or petty.
Aside from the ridiculous statement by the reviewer that chalked the manual as being inconsequential, as for some laughable reason people should expect every single game nowadays not to require reading any kind of documentation (why? who decided that?).As to your point, there ARE other excuses for not understanding the combat, particularly that the game doesn't explain them outside of a few tips that pop up when you get around to using them. I hadn't played the Witcher before. I didn't know what a "Sign" was or how I should use it in combat. I'm not used to a system where blocking uses the same energy as other abilities. I wasn't expecting to be thrown into combat with 3+ enemies, one armored and one with a shield where you take a few hits and you're dead. This game diverges heavily from expected difficulty curves and it can be surprising and frustrating to new players. This is not about a player's mental capacity or education (I completed HS with an International Baccalaureate diploma and now hold a BFA if you must know). This is about how the game introduces its mechanics. Now again, I personally don't mind this because I don't mind learning through trial and error, but I can definitely say that teaching the mechanics was not this game's strong suit. Do I think that's worth marking it down as much as Greg did? No, but again that's just my opinion and I'm not going to attack his because of it.
you know that (another quite rare option nowadays) you can dynamically switch the difficulty up and down at your leisure?And as I mentioned before, switching down to easy is not a solution to the weird difficulty curve. I did that in one of the fights later in the game that was being ridiculous and it removed every bit of the challenge. That's not a fun solution.
Considering that i've been a Bioware fan since when Bioware has been around, and having played Dragon Age 2, I doubt that the abysmal user score it received is to be chalked for more than a 10% to trolls. Dragon Age 2 is simply a poor product, watered down to the extreme to appease a dimwitted target and chocked full of simply nonsensical design choices and quality issues, following a downward spiral that's lately turning into a nose dive in Bioware's products. Dragon Age: Origin seemed to be a swan song, and even as a swan song, there are still quite a few people that can't play it properly due to several gamebreaking issues that have never been patched.Funny because I heard a lot of those were just troll accounts made by haters to make BioWare fans look bad. Users who had only recently signed up to right ridiculous praise for DA2 and then turn around and bash TW2. Then again, DA2 got a lot of ridiculously low user scores made by people who hadn't played it as well.
I guess the point is that you can't trust user reviews when people are clearly being bitter and petty in the extreme. And being concerned about them affecting purchasing decisions to any significant degree is like being worried about YouTube comments driving away fans of your favorite band. In other words, it won't and it's better to just chill.
People take this shit too personally. It's like everyone wants to get caught up in childish drama over who's favorite studio is the bestest ever. Just play games and ignore stuff like this review if it upsets you.
Fair enough. I still don't think it has anything to do with using one's brain. Reading a manual was standard procedure 10 years ago or more, but these days we've had a great many games (good ones, mind you) that incorporate tutorials smoothly into the first stages of the game. This is not dumb design or hand-holding unless it's done poorly. Reading a manual doesn't take much more comprehension skills than understanding a tutorial, it's just not common anymore. I can however accept that TW2 does not need to have a comprehensive tutorial and in the sense that this issue diminishes rather soon after completing the beginning of the game, it shouldn't have played a big role in the scoring process.Abriael said:Aside from the ridiculous statement by the reviewer that chalked the manual as being inconsequential, as for some laughable reason people should expect every single game nowadays not to require reading any kind of documentation (why? who decided that?).
Is diverging from the "expected" something bad? Considering how damn *boring* the gaming market is, nowadays, I would say it's something entirely good.
No matter how it's spinned. The game doesn't spoon-feed you, but the tools are *ALL* there. They just require you *by intentional design* to use your brain.
Someone doesn't like using his brain? Great for him. This just means that he isn't part of this game's target, not that the game is bad.
In any case a game's tutorial should never, ever be the primary judging meter for the quality of a game. What's this, the Escapist or the Dimwitted?
It's not even a matter of opinion. The review is of "The Witcher 2: Assassins of King" not of "The Witcher 2: the Tutorial".
You can do that in DA2 as well trollololol-- just kidding, I'm kidding (but you can)Abriael said:you know that (another quite rare option nowadays) you can dynamically switch the difficulty up and down at your leisure?And as I mentioned before, switching down to easy is not a solution to the weird difficulty curve. I did that in one of the fights later in the game that was being ridiculous and it removed every bit of the challenge. That's not a fun solution.
I enjoyed Dragon Age 2 for what it was. I won't say it's among the best RPGs, but it doesn't deserve all the zeros it got from overreacting users. A zero should be a game like... I dunno Evony or that E.T. game that everyone hated, but I guess knee-jerk emotional reviews never consider shades of gray. I think DA2 should get a 5-ish at the low end and like a 7 or 7.5 if you're fan but you're being honest (TW2 deserves a 9 I think. Maybe 8.5 if I get to the end and have a different opinion). But whatever, that's just me.Abriael said:Considering that i've been a Bioware fan since when Bioware has been around, and having played Dragon Age 2, I doubt that the abysmal user score it received is to be chalked for more than a 10% to trolls. Dragon Age 2 is simply a poor product, watered down to the extreme to appease a dimwitted target and chocked full of simply nonsensical design choices and quality issues, following a downward spiral that's lately turning into a nose dive in Bioware's products. Dragon Age: Origin seemed to be a swan song, and even as a swan song, there are still quite a few people that can't play it properly due to several gamebreaking issues that have never been patched.
You can't trust user scores? Maybe, but even the vasy majority of critic reviews shows Dragon Age 2 as mediocre at best. When that happens to a game that has a publisher as weighty as EA to back it, there's no need for trolls to understand that it's poor.
That lone drooling and fanboyish 100 right on top of them all to insult everyone's intelligence is something Greg should feel ashamed for, just as much as this 70. The combination of both is a clear indication of someone that shouldn't be made to review, at the very least, this genre. He quite obviously doesn't qualify.
It's not even just Greg's fault. This case throws a shadow over the whole editorial line of the site (if giving work to Jim Sterling wasn't enough...).
Whoever decides who reviews what should have taken the enormous hint from the Dragon Age 2 review debacle, and give him some Wii games to work on (those are easy, you don't even need a tutorial, perfect match), while letting to someone that actually qualifies the task to review other games from this genre, Witcher 2 included. Maybe (hopefully) NOW he'll take the hint. Errare Humanum Est, Perseverare autem Diabolicum.
In all fairness, there have been (and still are) Witcher 2 ads here. I don't think it has anything to do with payment (which seems to be the go-to accusation lobbed at any reviewer that goes against the grain a little).Calibretto said:Maybe its a case of business.
The witcher 2 did not pay for advertisement on the website like Dragon age 2 did.
Lets ignore the fact that its not a rich company and its made an amazing game... No $$ no good review.
Lets ignore the fact that it comes from a country struggling economically... No $$ no good review.
Lets ignore the fact it literally is 200% better then DA2.... No $$ No good review.
Lets ignore all those facts that you mentioned in your post.... NO $$ No good review.
I just thought that the escapist was not so capitalist driven.
Maybe the giving nature of the company with free DLC NO DRM etc is an afront to all their values and beliefs.
I just cant figure it out... I recently looked at metacritic and The Escapist is in the bottom 4 reviews at 70%... And this was my favourite website.
Using one's brain has to do with understanding the (quite intuitive in the end) combat system *without* the manual. You're getting hit everywhere? There must be a way to dodge and defend. Oh there it is!rsvp42 said:Fair enough. I still don't think it has anything to do with using one's brain. Reading a manual was standard procedure 10 years ago or more, but these days we've had a great many games (good ones, mind you) that incorporate tutorials smoothly into the first stages of the game. This is not dumb design or hand-holding unless it's done poorly. Reading a manual doesn't take much more comprehension skills than understanding a tutorial, it's just not common anymore. I can however accept that TW2 does not need to have a comprehensive tutorial and in the sense that this issue diminishes rather soon after completing the beginning of the game, it shouldn't have played a big role in the scoring process.
Are difficulty spikes really a problem? Who ever said that difficulty should be a regular curve, which means completely predictable? A game that can surprise the gamer should be praised, not bashed.My point is that turning the difficulty down isn't a good solution when the issue is an inordinate spike in difficulty that breaks the flow of the game. Again, it's not unmanageable, it's just a pain and it stands out in an otherwise phenomenal game.
The problem is that a site like metacritic (and the fact that they aren't selective as they should be), allows disreputable writers (that are either trolling, gratuitously bashing, or simply execising their ignorance) to actually have a detrimental effect on the hard work of developers that, in this case, delivered something quite great that the gaming market and us all are benefitting from.But here's my advice: if you don't like Mr. Tito as a reviewer, don't follow his reviews. There's some movie reviewers I typically ignore because I disagree with almost all of their opinions and find their methods sloppy. If that's how you feel about Greg Tito, just ignore him. I don't think it's right to ask him to be ashamed because his views don't exactly line up with the majority. Obviously I can't stop people from complaining (these 12 pages can attest to that), but I don't agree that he should be prevented from reviewing or given a time out in the Wii games bin.
This has always been the redeeming factor in Witcher combat for me. It's clunky in both installments, but in terms of capturing the feel and depth of their world it rocks. It rewards you for careful planning and strategy to a degree that few games do.HellenicWarrior said:I mean seriously, you can't expect a professional monster slayer to NOT think things through in advance and come prepared with the right tools for the job.
Hey, I got the hang of it eventually, you're preaching to the choir on that. But it was a very brutal trial and error period. I can't personally fault the game for that, but I can see why another player might.Abriael said:Using one's brain has to do with understanding the (quite intuitive in the end) combat system *without* the manual. You're getting hit everywhere? There must be a way to dodge and defend. Oh there it is!
You're not managing to drop that shielded knight's defense? There must be a way to stun him. Oh there it is! And so forth
Otherwise, you can just read the manual. Easy, peasy. It's part of the purchase of a reason.
I'm amazed at the sense of entitlement some people feel nowadays.
That's a good question. I think difficulty spikes to the degree I've experienced in this game so far are... troublesome to say the least. they're not bad per se, but inasmuch as they disrupt the flow of the game that had previously been going swimmingly, they are bad. Honestly, I need to play more (which I will do immediately after hitting "post" here). The fight I'm referring to was supposed to be hard from a story standpoint, but it's also unwinnable from a story standpoint (you still have to "win" in game terms, but you don't win in the story), so I'm conflicted on if it should have been as hard as it was compared to all the other fights on Normal. Once I get further in the game, I'll have a better idea of how the game is handling the difficulty curve overall.Abriael said:Are difficulty spikes really a problem? Who ever said that difficulty should be a regular curve, which means completely predictable? A game that can surprise the gamer should be praised, not bashed.My point is that turning the difficulty down isn't a good solution when the issue is an inordinate spike in difficulty that breaks the flow of the game. Again, it's not unmanageable, it's just a pain and it stands out in an otherwise phenomenal game.
The reality is that this happens all the time. Rotten Tomatoes lets downright reprehensible reviews (much worse than what you perceive this to be) get a spotlight. I remember once a reviewer bashed Cloudy With a chance of Meatballs by childishly insulting its character designs instead of saying anything substantial. Basically, there's no way around it. You say that gamers "need to be warned," yet there are many glowing reviews for the game easily accessible for the curious consumer. Good games will always--and have always, to my knowledge--outshined even the most flawed of reviews. Looking at the Metacritic page, I see a phenomenal level of support and praise for this game. The one extra "mixed" review will not change people's opinions much. I think it's worth letting it go on this one.Abriael said:The problem is that a site like metacritic (and the fact that they aren't selective as they should be), allows disreputable writers (that are either trolling, gratuitously bashing, or simply execising their ignorance) to actually have a detrimental effect on the hard work of developers that, in this case, delivered something quite great that the gaming market and us all are benefitting from.But here's my advice: if you don't like Mr. Tito as a reviewer, don't follow his reviews. There's some movie reviewers I typically ignore because I disagree with almost all of their opinions and find their methods sloppy. If that's how you feel about Greg Tito, just ignore him. I don't think it's right to ask him to be ashamed because his views don't exactly line up with the majority. Obviously I can't stop people from complaining (these 12 pages can attest to that), but I don't agree that he should be prevented from reviewing or given a time out in the Wii games bin.
Ignoring a poor excuse of a review like this one would be a poor service to less informed gamers, as they need to be warned that the actual game is quite a lot better than described, and the poor light this writer tries to cast on it is nothing else than a misguided fruit of his lack of qualification for the task.
Oh sure, I know it happens all the time. This doesn't mean that it's ok to leave it be, or that obviously bad "journalism" (quotes intended and mandatory) should be left alone and shouldn't be criticized and exposed.rsvp42 said:The reality is that this happens all the time. Rotten Tomatoes lets downright reprehensible reviews (much worse than what you perceive this to be) get a spotlight. I remember once a reviewer bashed Cloudy With a chance of Meatballs by childishly insulting its character designs instead of saying anything substantial. Basically, there's no way around it. You say that gamers "need to be warned," yet there are many glowing reviews for the game easily accessible for the curious consumer. Good games will always--and have always, to my knowledge--outshined even the most flawed of reviews. Looking at the Metacritic page, I see a phenomenal level of support and praise for this game. The one extra "mixed" review will not change people's opinions much. I think it's worth letting it go on this one.
I mean, imagine me seeing all the hate DA2 got when it came out. I'm sitting there playing it, enjoying it for the most part, liking the characters, enjoying the pace compared to the previous installment, generally feeling pretty good about it, yet I see so much rage and undeserved zeros flying about. I was frustrated because I knew people were exaggerating to make a point, yet I couldn't say much because I knew the game had some flaws, despite my enjoyment. But now we have The Witcher 2 getting glowing reviews from both press and users, an extremely solid 89% average, and that's not enough? Even if a few sites "don't get it" like these four, is it really worth getting worked up about?
Combat in Witcher 2 has really nothing to do with the first game. Your combos won't be interrupted if you don't press your mouse button exactly at the right time.camazotz said:Much as I'd like to have enjoyed the first one I really disliked the timing-based combat mechanic. So far everything I've seen about the sequel suggests its back with a vengeance...sigh, another one I can refrain from buying until about 3 years from now when its on sale for $5 at GOG right before The Witcher 3 comes out...
The combat mechanics are pretty different in Witcher 2. Basically they're closer to what you'd find in your standard hack-and-slash - you alternate light swings, heavy swings, and blocks. Like in the first, you have a lot of ways to mix it up with spells, bombs, traps, throwing knives, ripostes, etc. The annoying timing mechanic is completely gonecamazotz said:Much as I'd like to have enjoyed the first one I really disliked the timing-based combat mechanic. So far everything I've seen about the sequel suggests its back with a vengeance...sigh, another one I can refrain from buying until about 3 years from now when its on sale for $5 at GOG right before The Witcher 3 comes out...
EDIT: still gonna try to finish the first one, though, so I can consider doing the second one. With this much praise, the game has to be worth the effort, I figure, even if I find the combat mechanics tedious...maybe the sequel improves on them?
Yes you should ignore the fact, because it has nothing to do with the quality of the gameCalibretto said:Lets ignore the fact that its not a rich company
Your subjective opinion, not a factand its made an amazing game...
nothing to do with the quality of the gameLets ignore the fact that it comes from a country struggling economically...
Your subjective opinion, not a factLets ignore the fact it literally is 200% better then DA2...