The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings Review

[sindremaster]

Again, it's not his opinion that is the problem here - I think hardly anyone cares whether Tito likes the game or whether he likes ice cream, he is not exactly important person in our lives, so the emotional aspect (eg. yay, he likes!) is irrelevant. The problem is that this opinion is hardly supported and without consistency (someone pointed out blaming W2 for things never even mentioned in DA2 review). And that's the thing you can't counter with "opinion excuse".

The reason I used the "opinion excuse" is because someone said it was a fact that The Witcher 2 is better than Dragon Age 2 and I said it's not a fact its his opinion.

The moment you write about "None of us are more right than the other because it's just an opinion." you choose to ignore the fact plenty of posts above are not about "just an opinion" - responding to them in this manner is pretty much like arguing with someone else.

When I said that I wasn't talking to all the posts above I was responing to the last thing the guy I quoted said.

And writing "It depends on what is more important to you in a game" means surrendering - that very phrase divides user reviews from professional reviews. Those professional ones should focus on things useful for every reader - not for "I want to see what Tito likes" group - and do this in consistent, diligent and honest manner.

Again, I was talkin to the guy I quoted who said it was a fact that DA2 was better than DA2. It is not a fact because it depends on what you think is important in a game, I like party based combat so for me DA2 is better than TW2.

 

[abija]

The developer created a game that is difficult because the governing mechanics are, in many ways, faulty - a problem exacerbated by an utter refusal to tell the player what they need to know in order to play the game.

Did you even bother to check the journal? All the information is there, 1 key press away.
And I'm really curious what exactly are you referring to when you say many mechanics are faulty.

 

[frobisher]

@sindremaster

Then can we agree formulating an opinion about a game in professional review, based on the fact reviewer eg. likes party-based combat more than solo version and then using that opinion as a basis for final verdict is a mockery of a purpose of professional review?

Especially when at the same time objective flaws (already mentioned by other posters) both games (W2 & DA2) have are treated differently?

@abija

Oh, there are some annoying design holes out there, although I wouldn't say they are combat-related. More like causing aggravation when you make a mistake you cannot easily fix.

Eg. using mutagens and THEN realising upgrading specific skill gives mutagens a significant boost - but only to those mutagens you use AFTER getting that skill.

Or realising you need to carry a recipe for swallow to be able to craft more of such elixirs - after you sold that thing and it disappeared due to advancing in the story. Or being stuck without storage.

Then again - I survived without mutagen bonuses and still had one swallow left during epilogue. Not to mention these things can be easily fixed without a major overhaul to the game. Complaining abut them too much would mean making a big deal out of lower performance for SLI/Crossfire - already patched.

But seriously, combat mechanics?

Someone said it's better to show than to force poor gamer to read. Ok.

In the very beginning of the game you meet several opponents at once.
- you let yourself be surrounded, they kill you in few seconds
- game just showed you what happens when you fight multiple enemies without positioning
- death count: 1

Right after game lets you fight an opponent with a shield.
- opponent blocks your hit then sends you flying with shield swipe; one blow is not enough to kill you
- game just showed you hitting a soldier with a shield in frontal assault is a bad choice
- death count: still 1

A bit later game suggests you meditate and use elixirs because the difficult fight is coming
- you select random elixirs not knowing how they are working (hard to judge how useful is "regeneration +1")
- you use some signs during the fight (either La Valette or that crowd during "open the gates" phase), suffering from being uneducated how useful and efficient they are without upgrades
- game is showing you that axii is not always helpful, yrden reduces number of enemies, aard can lead to instakill or to respite from one of enemies, etc.
- death count: 1 + any number, depending on your previous choices - low if you chose to learn from your mistakes, high if you chose to spamclick through encounter and had some luck without exploring better options.

There are harder fights later on, there are easier ones (yay! no mindless level scaling!), but such basic truths stay the same. Boss fights are a different cup of tea, not sure if there is a need to elaborate. That's why I find it hard to feel compassion for everyone complaining too much.

 

[EgonCom]

I began to wonder if I was just an idiot

Game does not tell You to stay away from fire

Greg, I might have some bad news for You

 

[mindlesspuppet]

The alchemy system in the Witcher franchise is half the combat system, not an inconvenience, it's clear the reviewer never figured this out. When approaching a battle one has to think of what potions are best to take to handle the situation, the idea is to be prepared, not say "oh shit" and down 50 potions in battle to survive.

Also, heaven forbid a combat system exists where you're not a superhero that can saw through wave and wave of enemy carelessly by simply mashing buttons.

 

[Kahunaburger]

people crawling out of the woodwork in order to defend design choices that are simply bad.

This thread. Summed up.

I think the review is justified (somewhat). TW2 has some great narrative design, but some truly godawful game and level design. No matter how rich and flavored the story is, this is still first and foremost a game.

Based on what I've seen so far, the mechanics themselves are fine, with the possible exception of the targeting system

Rewards strategy and planning to an extent that most games I've played don't by giving you a flexible/powerful arsenal and making that arsenal necessary. The problem is that the closest thing it has to a tutorial is the windows it pops up when the player is busy getting cut up. But that's a comparatively minor issue that can be solved by reading the journal or trial-and-error.

 

[frobisher]

There is even a great fix for targeting system - upgrade sword skill giving Geralt full AoE damage

Not that is an excuse - but as long as they patch it, enabling you to cycle through all targets while mantaining a lock... and as far as I remember CDPR has a good track record with patching unlike some famous companies... *cough* DA:Awakening *cough*.

 

[abija]

And not trying to target switch while button mashing or mid animations.

 

[frobisher]

There is no backwards dificulty curve. You can easily die against gargoyles or against two copies of Durin's Bane (inside joke ). The only thing that is changing is the fact you upgraded your character - and the game lets you try subpar skill choices without leaving you limping through the chapters. That was the same problem some people had with Alpha Protocol - instead appreciating the fact there was significant and tangible reward for upgrading character, they moaned how awful stealth or pistols were in the beginning. Or how hard it was to play while upgrading every possible branch for a bit.

I explained trial-and-error earlier - game is directly responsible for 1 death the beginning and several later on. The rest lies simply in ability to learn and such individual things as reflex, perception or timing.

I am not sure what version of controls would be intuitive - please elaborate.
I am not aware what consolitis-related flaws are in control scheme, please elaborate.
Hard to use UI - disagree on doors (the only problem appears when there is a torch nearby), agree on traps, but then again it only requires a bit of precision when using mouse. Hardly consolitis-related.

Drinking potions - related animations: if someone refuses to use elixirs it is hardly a problem. If someone uses them often, that time is probably the best moment to reflect "all right, am I ready?". And in grand scheme of things it probably adds about 5 minutes to the entire playthrough.

I have not encountered confusing quest marker - actually I had a feeling that whenever the quest was NOT based on "find someone on your own" the marker was exactly where it should have been. When it was "find someone on your own" missing a marker is kind of a point.

 

[Waaghpowa]

-

I'm not attacking the article nor do I feel that his opinion is any less valid than anyone else's. I just feel that his opinion isn't supported well enough. In case you didn't read the comments (not being snarky) the issue that many people have is that he does very little beyond mention how the beginning was hard and how he didn't like the interface, which could imply he either A) didn't finish the game or B)left things out. In contrast to the DA2 review, despite it being equally as flawed, or more, he said nothing but good things and criticized little if anything.
Saying "The game is hard" then declaring it bad without sufficient reasons beyond "I couldn't figure it out" sounds childish and is hardly supportive of an opinion.

Also "It didn't tell me to stay out of the fire!" reminds me of the loading screen tip for World of Warcraft, obviously put in for humour (assuming you play WoW and get it) but for this case it's hard to tell.

 

[Ishiro32]

Backwards difficulty curve, trial-and-error mechanics (which is bad game design unless the game is purposely designed around it, and this game isn't), nonintuitive controls, control scheme designed around console use, hard to use UI (especially for opening doors and interacting with traps), slow transitions, repetitive drawn-out non-combat animations (like when drinking potions), seemingly designed around people who already know everything about the game, missing/confusing quest markers.

-About backward difficulty curve, the beginning is hard because you don't know what to do. That's all... Game doesn't get easier later, you think that only bacause you died 50+ times during prolog. Game has standard difficulty curve. It is just the lack of proper tutorial which is big flaw.
-Trial and Error mechanics... I disagree. Mechanics are good, dodge, timing attacks, blocks, potions which last long so you can use them a lot earlier (not just before fight, but before enetering monster infested forest). Only mechanic that support trial and error are traps. I think what you meant you play by trial and error, but you only do that at the beginning, when game fails to tell you what to do.
-nonintuitive controls. That's half true... Without manual you shouldn't get near this game, true. But keys are near themselfs and WASD+ctrl+space+e+q+r are good combination(the only keys that are diffrent from your standard fps controls are q+e+r), and when you get used to it, controls are pretty solid. You could mention that game have problems with reaction time, but this should be fixed in patch since it looks like normal bug.
-control scheme designed around console use. True but i fail to see where is the problem here since as i mentioned before, when you get used to it controls are pretty solid.
-hard to use UI (especially for opening doors and interacting with traps). Yeah, opening doors could have been more polished... But you know, patches. And about UI, i didn't have problems, but maybe for some people it could be troublesome.
-slow transitions. Could you elaborate?
-repetitive drawn-out non-combat animations (like when drinking potions). Kinda true, but it's minor complain... It's not Too Human death animation after all.
-seemingly designed around people who already know everything about the game. Once again just lack of proper tutorial. Tell me which design decisions are around those people?
-missing/confusing quest markers. I don't agree. I never had problem with them.

Game only big flaw is lack of tutorial. Which could be gamebraker for some people, but aside from that it's solid game with minor bugs and gliches that need to be fixed. Maybe the respose time of geralt is bigger issue, but that's all.
And about targeting sytem, you can lock target... you just need to check manual to know it XD.

I'm happy do discuss this game more.



Oh, and i really can't stand Greg DA2 score... It was unprofesional to give perfect score to a game which had so much flaws on design level (copy-pasta should be enough to lower score for about 0.5 star).

PS.

 

[Kahunaburger]

snip

Honestly, I'm not getting the trial and error complaint. Yes, you have to read up on monsters before you fight them, but that's a good mechanic, not a bad mechanic. Once you know what the monster is, what kills it, how many of it there are, and (through recon) where it lives, it's just a matter of effectively applying your massive arsenal.

And it's this last bit where witcher excels, especially in a market where most devs seem to think "tactical" means "spamming the same tactic over and over."

 

[Ishiro32]

snip

I wrote my post before checking your anwser to another user, so that's why i didn't concider what you wrote in that anwser.

Oh sure, just IGNORE everything I said about the insta-kill skills and everything that makes your life easier. Just ignore how I'm utterly destroying everything 5 vs 1 around me without needing to block, just mashing left click with no use of spells because my attacks hit everything around me and interrupt them from attacking. No, that doesn't matter! It's just what I think! Opinion! Not easy at all, in fact quite challenging! I'm just more skilled... at mashing left click!

So minion fights are easier and boss fights harder. Huh... I know this isn't the proper anwser but you could increase difficult level if you fell that game is not challenging. I can't imagine you could spam attack button on any level beside easy. But fine... I can accept that game normal fights also should be harder as you progress.

I didn't mean dodging is trial and error. I mean learning how to use the mechanics, when to use them, in what situation to use them and where to use them is very much trial and eror.

But then again that are not mechanics. Mechanics are good... The issue you have is lack of the tutorial, not mechanic problem.

Of course the controls are okay when you get used to them. This ties into the difficulty curve problem, and moreso to the tutorial. Sure would be nice if I could practice them before being thrown into 3+ enemies and a dragon.

So we agree it's the lack of tutorial. Not the control issue.

2 seconds to go into the meditate mode. 2 seconds to go into the drink potions screen. Half a second to go back, for each screen. One second before you can push another button. 2 seconds before the game gives you control after you get out of the meditate screen. Fade in/fade out on every area you enter, every time the game loads (and it might bite you in the ass if you loaded while a fight just started).
Transitions, transitions everywhere. At first they're okay, but after a few hours of experiencing them, they just get on your nerves.

Load times are not long. They are not quick, but they are not long. I agree about loading during fight, it is anoying, they should patch it. About meditation state animations, i could argue that it is to create immersion and they aren't so long as you claim. But i can't defend door animation, when you go with few other characters. Devs wanted to have full animation companions opening and closing doors which was anoying as hell when i waited to go through the door because 3 dwarfes wanted to go before me. So i agree about a bit too long animations.

I'll give you one example since I'm getting bored of writing: all the reagents and crafting materials you find. There's no way to know whether or not you'll need all of them, some of them or none of them, and there's no way to carry them all. You have to make a decision based on exactly zero knowledge. The only way you'll know was if this is your 2nd playthrough.

This is matter of tutorial or... manual. It's not design problem.

You're ignoring my arguments again, and it pisses me off. That YOU never had a problem with them doesn't mean they don't EXIST. Their existence is NOT opinion. It is FACT. And I just illustrated how they do, indeed, exist, in the post before this.

I wrote post before you stated those arguments. And about that argument... you should have checked map. I also had problem with that mission since i went into the fog as you, but then i checked the map and i had no problem from there. The quest marks are made classic way, they show you general direction, as in world of warcraft. If you want to know the way, you should check map. This is not game issue since those kind of marks etc. are commonly used in other games and they work.

All in all, I never said these are game-breaking. None of them are game-breaking, at least for me. But they ARE game-altering and drag the game's overall quality down.

Agreed... It's not perfect game. Only idiot would say so.

Sure, you can make the case that DA2's particular score wasn't gien fairly. But that doesn't mean this review was unfair as well.

True, but if someone ignore flaws of one game and don't do it for another it is... errm... mean?
It looks that no proper indroduction is gamebreaking issue for greg since he ranted a lot and 3.5/5 is pretty low score. And i think he overreacted. Based what he wrote 4/5 would fit better imho.
You know what is funny, i more respect review of Jim on Destructoid that this review. Jim attack games and is hard on them so that's why so low score (also i think he wanted to troll some people). Why i respect him more? Because Greg is not consequent on what he does, it fells so random and therefore meaningless. Jim is troll, and reviews of greg are oddly straight.

 

[abija]

Someone who wasn't inclined to die 20 times on that part would simply quit the game and get the impression that it's too obnoxious (and in case of one of my friends, they DID. And he's one of the best PC gamers I know, used to make money out of betting random people in internet cafes that he'll beat them at any game they choose).

I'm really curious of the thought process from an expert gamer that died 20 times on the dragon scene and quit the game.

I didn't mean dodging is trial and error. I mean learning how to use the mechanics, when to use them, in what situation to use them and where to use them is very much trial and eror.
...
I'll give you one example since I'm getting bored of writing: all the reagents and crafting materials you find. There's no way to know whether or not you'll need all of them, some of them or none of them, and there's no way to carry them all. You have to make a decision based on exactly zero knowledge. The only way you'll know was if this is your 2nd playthrough.

Expecting a game to tell you that is just wishing for extreme hand holding. And you can easily do an educated guess for the materials looking at what merchants sell and their weight.
I can't remember any game that gave you info on how to plan your inventory and material usage either.

And btw, there aren't more intuitive control atm on PC than wasd and adjacent keys + mouse + left side special keys. What the keys do is also pretty straight forward and explained in game anyway.

 

[Zolwiol]

snip

I'll only address one issue here.

Loading during combat? Are you serious? The streaming of data is so fluid I don't even experience any slowdown when the streaming icon shows up. It's more probably your hardware issue, especially your HDD speed.

 

[lovest harding]

-

I'm not attacking the article nor do I feel that his opinion is any less valid than anyone else's. I just feel that his opinion isn't supported well enough. In case you didn't read the comments (not being snarky) the issue that many people have is that he does very little beyond mention how the beginning was hard and how he didn't like the interface, which could imply he either A) didn't finish the game or B)left things out. In contrast to the DA2 review, despite it being equally as flawed, or more, he said nothing but good things and criticized little if anything.
Saying "The game is hard" then declaring it bad without sufficient reasons beyond "I couldn't figure it out" sounds childish and is hardly supportive of an opinion.

Also "It didn't tell me to stay out of the fire!" reminds me of the loading screen tip for World of Warcraft, obviously put in for humour (assuming you play WoW and get it) but for this case it's hard to tell.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were, I meant to say that the original person (who mentioned that it was opinion) was responding to someone who's comments felt like attacks on the reviewer and his review (AKA his opinion).

In any case, I can agree that his video review wasn't very thorough (which is why it's just a review supplement and not an actual review), but his written review goes in depth on difficulties he was having including clarifying that he didn't find it difficult because of overpowered enemies (or the like) but he found it difficult because a lot of what he needed to know wasn't clarified within the confines of the game and when it was it was a pop up that didn't pause the game when it appeared and they appeared while he was busy actually trying to play the game and vanished too quickly for him to truly get a chance to read it.

I can't really say anything about the DA2 review as I didn't read or watch that one, as DA2 was a pre-order for me and I wanted it regardless.
I find that this review is super helpful in determining whether I want Witcher 2 and whether it's something for me. I'm thankful that he had difficulty with it as it's the only review I've read that shows me what I could possibly have problems with.
The positives he gave (incredibly well developed characters and a great world) make me want the game all the more because those are the things I like. I don't think this review (or any for that matter) will honestly change many people's minds. It'll just show the people who are on the fence (like me) what are the positives and negatives.

The fire thing was an obvious joke to me, although not a very good one.

If most of the people who complained about his review (the crowd that's shouting how if you can't play games you shouldn't review them or how this guy should be fired for having a different opinion of the game) had simply read the full review they might actually find valid points to his argument or at least they'd find real things to complain about outside of "HE SUCKS AT LIFE BECAUSE I LOVE THIS GAME AND HE DOESN'T!"
And yes, I know that that is not what everyone is complaining about/has an issue with.