The Writers of BioWare
- Thread starter Shamus Young
- Start date
Meh plots follow certain rhythms as do character arch types, the tick of it all is to bend those set rule with wit, humor and intricately intuitive gameplay, DA dose this for the most part tho I'd like to physically dodge shots, as when you move you should get a 90% chance to dodge a hit, sure make a few things homming but.....I hate how all range stuff is homming >>
But aside from that I think the pit bioware fell in with DA is by the numbers generic tree dialog, making the dialog tree disappear faster and harder to start it back up is not moving us forward in terms of dialog tree evolution....
I also miss the cues about what side I am leaning to those should have stayed in just be off by default if people hate the good/evil meter.
A thought about the moral meter, When you do bad things out of view of people and far away from others you get few evil points, if you do it around people but are unseen you get more if seen you get A LOT based on whatever it is you did. Also it needs need local and world meters, world defines what the next new locality thinks of you and local is what the locals think of you, get to many bad point hits and the law will look for you.
But aside from that I think the pit bioware fell in with DA is by the numbers generic tree dialog, making the dialog tree disappear faster and harder to start it back up is not moving us forward in terms of dialog tree evolution....
I also miss the cues about what side I am leaning to those should have stayed in just be off by default if people hate the good/evil meter.
A thought about the moral meter, When you do bad things out of view of people and far away from others you get few evil points, if you do it around people but are unseen you get more if seen you get A LOT based on whatever it is you did. Also it needs need local and world meters, world defines what the next new locality thinks of you and local is what the locals think of you, get to many bad point hits and the law will look for you.
Yes it does knights are Ser (Insert name) Heck noble human and noble dwarf are orgins. Banns are dukesCheeze_Pavilion said:
Shamus Young said:
Thing is; all the character types you list are present in almost every genre in some form and if the genre can't accept them then they have types of their own to fill the void. So no, they'd just rehash the character types like everybody else does.Shamus Young said:
Bioware's games are admittedly formulaic, but they're so well-written they're hard not to enjoy.
Is it just me or is his list here missing most of the best Bioware games.
The Remorseless Killer: Sarevok from BGII Throne of Bhaal.
The Pilgrim: Neeshka from NWN2 and Imoen and sort of Aarie.
The Mentor: Sand from NWN2
The Shrew: Jahiera.
Captain Emo: Admit it, Atton Rand and Carth Onasi are totally the same character.
Berserker: Minsc and Kelghar
The list probably goes way farther than that.
The Remorseless Killer: Sarevok from BGII Throne of Bhaal.
The Pilgrim: Neeshka from NWN2 and Imoen and sort of Aarie.
The Mentor: Sand from NWN2
The Shrew: Jahiera.
Captain Emo: Admit it, Atton Rand and Carth Onasi are totally the same character.
Berserker: Minsc and Kelghar
The list probably goes way farther than that.
That conversation between the shrew and player was hilarious. All the more so for how true it is. You could pretty much replace north and south with option A and B, and use that template to fill out 95% of arguments with the shrew.
This article is just a rehash of this:
http://digg.com/gaming_news/BioWare_RPG_Cliche_Chart
including its failure to list any games pre-KotOR (Baldur's Gate)
The Bioware writers have already defended themselves against this accusation by pointing out that all heroic characters follow patterns, first identified and thoroughly defined in Joseph Campbell's 'The Hero with a Thousand Faces' and other works. If you look at those archetypes they are the heros and main protagonists of virtually every game and work of fiction.
If there is a problem with originality in games it is industry-wide, and not fair to single Bioware out.
http://digg.com/gaming_news/BioWare_RPG_Cliche_Chart
including its failure to list any games pre-KotOR (Baldur's Gate)
The Bioware writers have already defended themselves against this accusation by pointing out that all heroic characters follow patterns, first identified and thoroughly defined in Joseph Campbell's 'The Hero with a Thousand Faces' and other works. If you look at those archetypes they are the heros and main protagonists of virtually every game and work of fiction.
If there is a problem with originality in games it is industry-wide, and not fair to single Bioware out.
I thought sten was funny, in a quiet sort of way. His replies to your sarcasm are always a treat.
Agreed. Plus, for all their "repetitiveness", BioWare sure have a lot of respect in the RPG community (if not the gaming community as a whole). They've made successful games for two of the biggest franchises in geekdom - Star Wars and Dungeons & Dragons, so surely they must be doing something right?calydon said:
In comparison, I find Bethesda games playable (post-Morrowind, so Oblivion and Fallout 3) but something isn't right about them.
Excellent article, and very true. I fucking adore Biowaregames, but this is indeed a pattern that Bioware needs to change. Even though every Biowaregame had characters I loved (and still love), and they all fitted in one of those stereotypes. I didn't have any problem with this so far, but it does make characters a bit too predictable. In a (simple) movie that's okay, it's what the characters are supposed to do, but in Biowaregames you are supposed to be interacting with 'real' people, who are more than 3 lines of character-description. Sooner or later this will hurt the experience.
One advantage though: if Bioware wíll make a really new character in a future game, it will blow my mind.
Edit: ah, too bad this isn't a truly original article. It makes it a bit less excellent, but fortunately it doesn't make it less true.
One advantage though: if Bioware wíll make a really new character in a future game, it will blow my mind.
Edit: ah, too bad this isn't a truly original article. It makes it a bit less excellent, but fortunately it doesn't make it less true.
My good man, it's called tropes. There's a very popular website dedicated to them. You might want to look it up...Shamus Young said:
Some characters might feel familiar, but this is hardly soley Bioware's fault. It's more of an industry-wide (or even broader) "problem" where some character patterns repeated to an extent (aka Tropes). If anything, it's your own fault for having exposed yourself to enough media so the patterns are apparent enough.
I've thought that about Bioware games for a while now, thankyou Shamus for voicing it. Still love their games, (well, Jade Empire and Mass Effect anyway, i like it when i'm DIRECTLY involved in the combat) but their theme's seem very similar.
Always a safe bet with Bioware!
Always a safe bet with Bioware!
Wrex certainly doesn't fit the 'kill for laughs' stereotype: You're meant to think of the "proud warrior race" stereotype and then he completely reverses it by being sick of the way his society acts, morose about the future of his race, and almost poetic in his dialog style.