There's no immersion in 3rd person games

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13lackfriday

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delta4062 said:
You wernt immersed in Dead Space?
YOU CANT BE HELPED
I agree with your diagnosis.

Seeing your avatar jerk back in fear at some new horror or cover his face in grief at an unfortunate discovery connects you to him in ways no 180°-fishbowl perspective can.

Edit:

PirateKing said:
The problem is platforming in first person.
Oi! Don't you be having a go at Mirror's Edge now...
That game was revolutionary.
 

letsnoobtehpwns

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What is immersion? I hear that it's when you get sucked into the game and it really feels kike your there. I have never had that feeling in any game, ever.
 

Valiance

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tiredinnuendo said:
I don't really like first person view in general. I always feel like a camera floating six feet off the ground.

- J
I see you've never played Mirror's Edge.

tiredinnuendo said:
FPS's almost never give me these sorts of feelings. In fact, the bulk of FPS games I put down halfway through and never pick up again because I couldn't take one more level of the same point and click shooting (unrelated note: Do FPS's feel like graphics heavy mouse tutorials to anyone else?).
I see you enjoy hating genres because they're poorly represented in today's market.

Have you played Deus Ex?

That said, third person games are definitely immersive as well. Many people can cite FFVII, but honestly, there's a lot of other ones that did it for me.
 

tiredinnuendo

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Valiance said:
tiredinnuendo said:
I don't really like first person view in general. I always feel like a camera floating six feet off the ground.

- J
I see you've never played Mirror's Edge.

tiredinnuendo said:
FPS's almost never give me these sorts of feelings. In fact, the bulk of FPS games I put down halfway through and never pick up again because I couldn't take one more level of the same point and click shooting (unrelated note: Do FPS's feel like graphics heavy mouse tutorials to anyone else?).
I see you enjoy hating genres because they're poorly represented in today's market.

Have you played Deus Ex?

That said, third person games are definitely immersive as well. Many people can cite FFVII, but honestly, there's a lot of other ones that did it for me.
Man.... necropost. How long ago did I say this?

Anyway, I've played both Mirror's Edge and Deus Ex. Mirror's Edge was mind-bogglingly average, up until it fell into the "FPS's must become point and click mouse tutorials so add some combat" trap near the end. And I still felt like a camera floating above the ground. I just felt like a wobbly camera. Maybe I have better peripheral vision than most people, but first person view on a monitor will never feel like real "vision" to me.

Deus Ex was good, don't get me wrong, but I saw nothing about it that would have been less well-represented in the third person. No need to get your pants in a twist because I landed a critical strike on your favorite genre. Really now, "I see you enjoy hating genres because they're poorly represented in today's market"? Have you managed to trick yourself into thinking that that means anything other than, "Most FPS's suck"? And the whole enjoy hating genre's thing was lowbrow. You can do better.

- J
 

Valiance

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tiredinnuendo said:
Man.... necropost. How long ago did I say this?

Anyway, I've played both Mirror's Edge and Deus Ex. Mirror's Edge was mind-bogglingly average, up until it fell into the "FPS's must become point and click mouse tutorials so add some combat" trap near the end. And I still felt like a camera floating above the ground. I just felt like a wobbly camera. Maybe I have better peripheral vision than most people, but first person view on a monitor will never feel like real "vision" to me.

Deus Ex was good, don't get me wrong, but I saw nothing about it that would have been less well-represented in the third person. No need to get your pants in a twist because I landed a critical strike on your favorite genre. Really now, "I see you enjoy hating genres because they're poorly represented in today's market"? Have you managed to trick yourself into thinking that that means anything other than, "Most FPS's suck"? And the whole enjoy hating genre's thing was lowbrow. You can do better.

- J
It wasn't a necro post. This topic was on the first page. Note how the post above me was only a couple minutes before mine. I actually just, you know, read threads before I just reply to them.

Mirror's Edge I'm citing because if you walk up against a wall, your hands rpess agaisnt it. If you look through a fence your eyes focus on what's in the distance, the fence blurring as you do so. If you look down, you can actually see the rest of your body. If you run, you see your arms. And I'm not saying it's a good game (Though I think overall it is, and the combat's kinda cool since I hardly ever used a gun), I'm saying that it took certain steps that made me find it immersive.

Granted, no, of course it's not like "real life" but does it really have to be in order to be immersive? I don't think so, personally but I'd understand if you did. "Why have a first person view if it doesn't feel like I'm seeing it from the character's eyes?" Well, honestly, I don't know. To me, sometimes it does. But there's times where I feel like a nameless faceless walking gun, and I understand that.

Deus Ex having nothing better well-represented in third person may be true, and recently, I've been thinking about that. Some of my favorite FPS games are cross genre, with Metroid Prime being FPA, and Deus Ex sort of ARPG. But those would have been just as good in third person, I think.

However, the survival-horror FPS subgenre I feel are best represented in first person as it provides an interesting and frightening experience. Doom 3. F.E.A.R. Games like that.

I don't know, I just think that FP can be quite immersive as well. And most FPS games today do suck, so don't buy them or play them. That doesn't mean the genre's terrible, even though 90% of the titles that everyone's played suck, I'd say about 50% of the FPS I've played suck. ;P

A lot of them have the oh-so-unique setting of World War II, a lot of them are about SPAC MAHREENZ KILIN ALEINZ, and I miss back when they made games like Powerslave where you fought mummies and scorpions in ancient egypt with modern weaponry, and made games like Blood where one of your weapons was a voodoo doll and another one was a hairspray can with a lighter (ie: flamethrower, which at the time was interesting.

But I think games like Bioshock are a rare gem, and why miss out on gems because the genre is shunned.

Oh, and TBS is my favorite genre. Well, tactical TBS, anyway. Not FPS.
 

Flying Dagger

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i'm going to go with the fact that it's different for different people, then point out that most MMORPGs prove that there is immersion in TPGs (third person games)
 

D_987

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I was truly immersed in Lost Odysseys characters / storyline - it had a fixed camera and was third person. The way the dialogue was performed and the excellent animation allows the player to emphasize with the characters.
 

viranimus

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Nov 20, 2009
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Ok, I know this is a dead thread, my apologies. I just came across it and even went so far as to sign up just to reply to this.

The OP is right.

The problem is that people do not seemingly understand the english language.

Immersion = to plunge into or sink. to embed; bury.
Engross = to occupy completely, as the mind or attention

3rd person perspective games are counter immersive. you do not feel like you are IN the world, you feel like your controlling someone in the world. You may be captivated by the story line, but your simply controlling a character.

First person is the only way to achieve immersion. Immersion in a game world is to feel like you are a part of that world, experiencing the same limitations in that world as you would in the real. You cant see your back without the aid of a mirror before you leave the house for the morning, You cant see the top of your head and the back of your feet at the same time.

Dont get me wrong, I dont discount anyone for their opinion on any of the games listed saying they find it to be a better game for this that and the other and its a 3rd pov. But again, that is reflected by being engrossed by it, not immersed in it

I do also respect what was said, that being in 1st pov seems more like being on a fixed camera. and how real sight is different. This is true, but it is not the fault of the perspective, its the limitations of the technology as 3d tech in games is not yet viable, and outside of flight simulator there is not alot of call yet for peripheral vision.

Thats why i think game devs really need to stop with all this 3rd person nonsense. Here and there is understandable, but it seems like most games are moving to 3rd person perspective, and that presents a problem. Instead of fixing the "fixed camera" problem, it will hinder advancements in developing a peripheral field of view in games, that could be utilizable by 3d monitor glasses sets, to make it more immersive, Or multi monitor configurations. (ideally 3 in wrap around config.)

As was said before... the problem really isnt first person or third person perspective, the real problem now is that over the course of the last decade, games have slowly moved away from first person to third in steps. First it was adding in multiple camera angles, then it was a choice of first and third, but now its getting so that games dont give you the choice. If you like being in third person, more power to you, but if you do, dont you find it a little annoying to be forced into 1st person? the same is true of the opposite. And given that we have seen that it is not hard from a coding standpoint to achieve such a choice, why are games increasingly FORCING 3rd person on us in games that should definitely have the choice between the two, such as fable 2, dragon age, resident evil, dead space, most shooters, and western style RPGs.

Ok thank you for letting me vent, and you may return this thread to its previously abandoned status :D
 

Mirroga

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@OP - Immersion (Immersion in gaming, not the sinking or burying) applies towards actually responding and feeling the very actions of your character. You do not need to be in FPV to feel such things.

Too many games are doing FPV along with mute characters to get immersion elements. Too bad not all games can pull this trick off.

I loved Uncharted 2, Dead Space, and MGS 4, got immersed with the protagonist's actions (my own actions) and got attached into the game (even responding when my character gets hurt).
 

ZombieGenesis

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I have the opposite opinion. I find First Person impossible to sink into, for the most part. Bioshock came close, but whenever you see a hand stick out of the screen it all crashed down. FPS especially make me laugh, you're playing as a floating gun.
 

TheDoctor455

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Apr 1, 2009
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DalekJaas said:
I can't play 3rd person, its too annoying, I like to see through the eyes of the character.
I've tried Mass Effect and Dead Space amongst others, and I just can't get into them. If your in a space ship or vehicle its ok, but there is no immersion playing in 3rd person.

The best are games which you can switch between the two but don't have to play as one.
Er... no... the main reason those games aren't immersive for you has nothing to do with the 3rd person perspective. Dead Space is unimmersive because the developers focused too much on jump-out scares and less on a decent atmosphere and story. The only reasons that I can think of someone not getting immersed into the Mass Effect universe are either A) you don't like RPGs to begin with, or B) You never bothered to find out more about the Mass Effect universe (by say, TALKING to the NPCs).
 

TheDoctor455

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The RealSandman said:




A game doesn't have to be in first person in order to be immersive. These games prove that.
You should add Dragon Age: Origins to that list.
 

Iron Mal

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Rolling Thunder said:
The OP is a fail. Most truly immersive games are shot in 3rd person, simply because it is quite hard to empathise with a character who goes unseen. Also, because FPS games usually lack in immersivenes...though they are improving.
I think that both the OP and this guy are over-simplifying the issue.

The perspective has little (if anything) to do with the immersion, the story can be an influence and the gameplay helps but ultimately the immersion is dictated by the atmosphere that's present (in the following I'm largely refering to the use of atmosphere in horror since this is one of the genres that demands more immersion than normal).

First person games have an easy time generating this since you are placed in the perspective of the protaganist and see, hear, experience everything they do (in effect, you are in the game, this makes everything more direct and immediate since you are the one in danger rather than some avatar on screen), the first person usually demands an attention to detail and for the scenario to be traumatic and unnerving (normally this is only for horror, it also helps to have most events and enemies appear up close and personal where the shock value will be the greatest).

Third person games are also good at generating atmosphere since they can provide a more cinematic experience (how many films are shot in the first person?) and allow a greater view of the environment (which is a very important factor in the generation of tension and atmosphere), third person games are dependant on the character you control being empathetic and likeable (or you honestly won't care when they get tortured on screen).
 

leady129

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Whilst I can see your point I find it difficult to become immersed in an FPS when I look down and realize I HAVE NO LEGS!!! (And is some cases, no arms... [half life 2 ]) I've always preferred third person as it gives the game a chance to develop the main character and ... ahem... attempt... to create a believable character you can relate to.
 

MiracleOfSound

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Jan 3, 2009
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It's just a different kind of immersion.

First person feels like it's you, third person is more like playing puppetmaster.

Both have thier place.