Thief Preview: Will it Steal Our Hearts?
- Thread starter MikeWehner
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Why ? The visibilty gem worked great where it was.Article said:
[spoiler = "Thief 2 screen"]
It was easily viewed, was the end of the health bar and all the UI was at the bottom so one glance told you everything.
I'm open to correction, but that seems to be a really solid design to me.
Why mess with the Gem?
Why would you relegate the STEALTH METER to the sides of the screen? The Gem IS already perfect. It not only shows you IF you are hidden but because of the little meter inside it you can tell exactly how hidden you are. It's a Meter inside a Meter all compacted into the space of a modern healthbar.
Sure the orb could technically work exactly the same but you want that shit front and center. I just hope it's not a Splinter Cell orb, like Green, Yellow, Red, but an actual gradient.
Well we will see. As far as I can tell it will at least be a decent game. It won't be bad. In this day and age when any game that asks a player to exert even the tiniest amount of effort to formulate an approach strategy is considered a huge risk to take. When a quiet moment is dreaded because the average estimated attention-span is 0.23 milliseconds. Could we really ask for more?
Of course we can, but we sure as shit aren't going to get it! If this ends up a dishonored clone with more stealing in it, it will be at least worth the purchase price. If it's a nice big hit maybe the marketing department eases off for the sequel.
Why would you relegate the STEALTH METER to the sides of the screen? The Gem IS already perfect. It not only shows you IF you are hidden but because of the little meter inside it you can tell exactly how hidden you are. It's a Meter inside a Meter all compacted into the space of a modern healthbar.
Sure the orb could technically work exactly the same but you want that shit front and center. I just hope it's not a Splinter Cell orb, like Green, Yellow, Red, but an actual gradient.
Well we will see. As far as I can tell it will at least be a decent game. It won't be bad. In this day and age when any game that asks a player to exert even the tiniest amount of effort to formulate an approach strategy is considered a huge risk to take. When a quiet moment is dreaded because the average estimated attention-span is 0.23 milliseconds. Could we really ask for more?
Of course we can, but we sure as shit aren't going to get it! If this ends up a dishonored clone with more stealing in it, it will be at least worth the purchase price. If it's a nice big hit maybe the marketing department eases off for the sequel.
Those bleedin' taffer's better not mess this up.
Gameplay was only half of what made the original Thief games so amazing, the other half was the gloriously well realized setting and its inhabitants. And so even though everything I'm hearing about the gameplay seems good I'm really, really worried about just how much they've changed the setting.
No Pagan sorcery? No zealot Hammerites? No bleedin' taffers? No Thief.
Gameplay was only half of what made the original Thief games so amazing, the other half was the gloriously well realized setting and its inhabitants. And so even though everything I'm hearing about the gameplay seems good I'm really, really worried about just how much they've changed the setting.
No Pagan sorcery? No zealot Hammerites? No bleedin' taffers? No Thief.
For now there exclusion is merely conjecture given that the game also won't feature any of the supernatural elements from previous games, which both the Hammerites and Pagans where obviously heavily involved. Also in the Rock Paper Shotgun preview the writer did note that he found no mention or clue of the old factions in the demo preview. While that hardly confirms anything, it does not look good for them being in the game at the moment.wetfart said:
Again though if the game plays like the old Thief games I probably will be able to look past all the changes to the established plot points and enjoy it regardless. I have to keep reminding myself that I was initially worried when Deus Ex Human Revolution was first announced but Eidos soon put those worries to bed, so perhaps Eidos can surprise me again.
Can't speak for the old ones, but the new bow looks like no short bow that I've ever seen. Looks more like a compound bow to me.00Jack00 said:
"At first, the enemy may simply mumble to himself that it must have been the wind, but should you do it again, the chances of the guard growing suspicious heightens. Do it a third time and he may launch an all-out sweep of the area, and each time is different."
They did this already. Hell they did this in Deadly Shadows.
They did this already. Hell they did this in Deadly Shadows.
I had no idea that previous generation games were coded in BASIC. Thank god they've finally implemented arrays.
But only if they see you...L34dP1LL said:
Besides, who plays Thief for the combat?
I am glad this game is making it out, I enjoyed Dishonored, but there will always be one Thief.
Hopefully he steals my heart and not my wallet.
As long as the AI is better than the AI in Deadly Shadows I'll be happy. The guards in Deadly Shadows are so ready to shrug off everything as their imagination or rats so quickly it's kind of sad.piinyouri said:
In a recent replay I had a guard spot some relics were missing and then after about 20 paces of looking for me - decided he had imagined the whole thing and go back to patrol.
Yeah, but that's not a matter of technology available, but a matter of design. The behaviour in the former Thief games you described was given to the guards to keep the game playable ;-). To say that the AI behaviour in Thief 4 requires next gen hardware seems a bit exaggerated, if not a rightout lie. Unless there are some super duper AI features not mentioned in the article, like guards logically deducing from the things you manipulated, where you are and what your target is or something like that. Everything else is pretty much AI 101, state machines and goal based agents.Lissa-QUON said:
Regarding the tone of the new Thief, I am really concerned, that they seem to exclude everything "Thief", e.g. the factions, the mystical subplot (which was somewhat central to the first three games). In my opinion the story was wrapped up really well at the end of Deadly Shadows, I've seldomly seen such a "complete" story in a game (maybe Max Payne 2, which was then shat all over by Max Payne 3). What about the little girl at the end of Thief Deadly Shadows? Why not make her the new protagonist with Garret the wise and old Keeper Mentor he is supposed to have involved into through his heroe's journey in his three games? That would be cool, but this reboot is not.
Then, hand to hand combat? Why empower Garret in combat? It was normally throwing a flash bomb and hiding in the shadows again. If you are able to muscle your way through the new Thief 4, it's no Thief. I know, several angles for gameplay, but Thief was never a role playing game, but a stealth game.
Although this game seems to become really good, I don't think it's a good Thief.
Stealth meter: You might argue that people in the shadows see better so shy not just raise the gamma a little when you're hiding? Some blue tint at the sides of the screen is just stupid. It was done in other games but games with fewer stealth sections. The light gem was better for simplicity's sake.
Design: Let's face it. The first two games had so little graphics that most of it was left to our imagination. But it was clearly a medieval steam-punk and unique to the series, fondly remembered and respected. Thief 3 was the first game with actual graphics and detail and while it was a bit more confusing as a setting (mainly Medieval sprinkled with Victorian steampunk), it bloody worked. This one? Bah... I'm seeing a few nice things (lots of cracked wood, medieval alleyways), but that brothel with bunny ears is a bad joke, as are the late early 1900's civilian clothing and those 1800's german helmet guys. They went for a more Victorian setting (meaning Victorian/Edwardian steampunk, sprinkled with too little Medieval background), but they forgot that steampunk belonged to that era so you end up loosing that dark futuristic look. What you end up with is a gritty Dishonored setting, not a progressive Thief design. I don't particularly like it. I do like the detail tho... But it needs interactivity. Remember how interactive the game seems just because of the shadows and extinguishable lights and noisy floors? That's all you had, but everything seemed to have an effect.
Story: no news yet, but coupled with AI, this is what's gonna sell the game. I was a huge fan of Thief 3's dark story and just mentioning the words "Shalebridge Cradle" brings shivers down my spine. I want to see them top that. Otherwise, I don't really care, be there Hammerites, Keepers or whatever.
AI: just make them take a break once in a while and search more randomly. Make them look over their bloody shoulders from time to time. Make them believable humans, not robots with a programmed path. There is not one stealth game which does this... be the first if you want to be worthy of the Thief name. Just go to a museum, talk to the guards, see how they behave based on what they expect to see. True stealth is judged by how difficult it is to adapt.
I'm not expecting to like the game. At least not as much as I liked the old ones. I hated Deus Ex HR and even made a thread a while ago displaying my concerns over Eidos' take on Thief (which had just been announced then), but was laughed at or called a paranoid. And trust me when I say that this is one time I pray to be wrong.
Design: Let's face it. The first two games had so little graphics that most of it was left to our imagination. But it was clearly a medieval steam-punk and unique to the series, fondly remembered and respected. Thief 3 was the first game with actual graphics and detail and while it was a bit more confusing as a setting (mainly Medieval sprinkled with Victorian steampunk), it bloody worked. This one? Bah... I'm seeing a few nice things (lots of cracked wood, medieval alleyways), but that brothel with bunny ears is a bad joke, as are the late early 1900's civilian clothing and those 1800's german helmet guys. They went for a more Victorian setting (meaning Victorian/Edwardian steampunk, sprinkled with too little Medieval background), but they forgot that steampunk belonged to that era so you end up loosing that dark futuristic look. What you end up with is a gritty Dishonored setting, not a progressive Thief design. I don't particularly like it. I do like the detail tho... But it needs interactivity. Remember how interactive the game seems just because of the shadows and extinguishable lights and noisy floors? That's all you had, but everything seemed to have an effect.
Story: no news yet, but coupled with AI, this is what's gonna sell the game. I was a huge fan of Thief 3's dark story and just mentioning the words "Shalebridge Cradle" brings shivers down my spine. I want to see them top that. Otherwise, I don't really care, be there Hammerites, Keepers or whatever.
AI: just make them take a break once in a while and search more randomly. Make them look over their bloody shoulders from time to time. Make them believable humans, not robots with a programmed path. There is not one stealth game which does this... be the first if you want to be worthy of the Thief name. Just go to a museum, talk to the guards, see how they behave based on what they expect to see. True stealth is judged by how difficult it is to adapt.
I'm not expecting to like the game. At least not as much as I liked the old ones. I hated Deus Ex HR and even made a thread a while ago displaying my concerns over Eidos' take on Thief (which had just been announced then), but was laughed at or called a paranoid. And trust me when I say that this is one time I pray to be wrong.
Garrett has been equipped with some impressive abilities, including being able to peek around corners or objects without being spotted, and slow down hand-to-hand combat in order to pick specific parts of your enemy's body to target.
Well there goes the series really.
This sort of thing didn't really hurt Deus Ex much, since the stealth there was never great to begin with, but Thief is THE stealth game, and to dumb it down like this defeats the purpose of making a Thief game. People who don't know the series will see a Dishounoured ripoff and people who do know the series will see the ruination of their beloved franchise. No one wants this.
Well there goes the series really.
This sort of thing didn't really hurt Deus Ex much, since the stealth there was never great to begin with, but Thief is THE stealth game, and to dumb it down like this defeats the purpose of making a Thief game. People who don't know the series will see a Dishounoured ripoff and people who do know the series will see the ruination of their beloved franchise. No one wants this.
Some ambitious AI. The difference here is we have been given a good example of the AI. Not like those Tomb Raider marketing vids.
I hope the shadow systems are not like skyrim...when you are just as hidden in a shadow in an alert phase as you are in a normal phase. Where getting seen is only down to proximity when then enemy is walking towards the disturbance.
The other concerns are if the game is balanced to play without those special powers and equipment
I hope the shadow systems are not like skyrim...when you are just as hidden in a shadow in an alert phase as you are in a normal phase. Where getting seen is only down to proximity when then enemy is walking towards the disturbance.
The other concerns are if the game is balanced to play without those special powers and equipment