Thief Review - The Meh Project

Slycne

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Thief Review - The Meh Project

Thief is a mess. It?s disappointing that there?s a genuinely good game hidden under a lot of mediocrity.

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Tahaneira

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Feb 1, 2011
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So, if I'm reading this right, gameplay is more linear than previous titles but still pretty open by modern standards, tools are handy but a pain in the ass to switch between, other than that gameplay is good, and the story is horrendous, yes?

Probably wait for it to get down to below half price before trying it out. About how long do you think it would take to get everything in the game done?
 

luvd1

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I'm going to wait for Yahtzee to play it. Coz I like seeing grown adults cry.
 

Mike Fang

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I'm playing the game myself and am a long-time Thief fan. I have to admit these criticisms are pretty dead-on, but I for one feel the game's good points carry a bit more weight. Overall I'd say the game is better than "meh". It's certainly not on the same level as the previous games for their time, but neither would I call it something to be just tossed aside with a dismissive "pff" if you're a fan of stealth. It's definitely a rocky new start (assuming this is the beginning of a new series of Thief games) but I'd say the possibility for later games to get even better isn't out of the question.

Oh, and Deus Ex: Human Revolution? I wouldn't call THAT game "excellent" by any stretch. Hell, I played both the previous Deus Ex games to completion, and I still didn't feel compelled to finish DE:HR. That's certainly something I can say this new Thief has over it.
 

Rad Party God

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Feb 23, 2010
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So, bottom line, you're better off sticking to the old Thief games... including Deadly Shadows.

In other news, The Dark Mod [http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-dark-mod] is a free game (formerly Doom 3 mod) that perfectly recaptures the Thief games of yore. You should play that instead of this mess.
 

Hazy

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I am so happy to see this game getting slammed with mediocre scores. Maybe that will teach developers to stop bastardizing established franchises with "muh gritty grimdark reboot."

The key word there being "grimdark" - an environment trying to hard to be oppressive that it make you reel with how desperate it is to make you feel some disgust. It's fine when you play it for what it is: extremely excessive and tongue in cheek (a great example of this being the 40k universe,) but when the game expects you to take it as a straight laced setting, it falls flat on its face.
 

Tahaneira

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Hazy said:
I am so happy to see this game getting slammed with mediocre scores. Maybe that will teach developers to stop bastardizing established franchises with "muh gritty grimdark reboot."
Uh... I'll be the first to admit I haven't played much of the original Thief games, but they don't strike me as being light and cheerful. Hell, this Garrett sounds like he's less of a bastard than the original.
 

Imbechile

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Watching this horrendous rape of a great series get bad scores and underperform on steam really brings a smile on my face.

There is some justice in this world after all.
 

Astalano

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This review is meh. Doesn't tell me anything about the game.

Seriously, every other review on Thief is so ambigious as to why it's 'bad'. If it's such a mess explain why. That's the point of a review.
 

Kolyarut

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Tahaneira said:
Hazy said:
I am so happy to see this game getting slammed with mediocre scores. Maybe that will teach developers to stop bastardizing established franchises with "muh gritty grimdark reboot."
Uh... I'll be the first to admit I haven't played much of the original Thief games, but they don't strike me as being light and cheerful. Hell, this Garrett sounds like he's less of a bastard than the original.
Yeah, sitting in the same boat here - didn't play the originals but was always vaguely curious, and was interested in this new one - was the original series about sneaking around the shadows, shooting undead and stealing things, REALLY that tonally dissimilar?

Really surprised how many people would rather see the game be bad so they can gloat rather than hoping the game be good so they can enjoy it.
 

Hazy

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Tahaneira said:
Hazy said:
I am so happy to see this game getting slammed with mediocre scores. Maybe that will teach developers to stop bastardizing established franchises with "muh gritty grimdark reboot."
Uh... I'll be the first to admit I haven't played much of the original Thief games, but they don't strike me as being light and cheerful. Hell, this Garrett sounds like he's less of a bastard than the original.
They tried too hard in this case. Now there's a plague going around, the guards are no longer just guards... now they're these piece of shit scumbags who love mistreating the townspeople, and the new Garret is way too serious. That isn't to say that the old games were a happy go lucky romp, what with the different factions, undead, and monsters and all that, but they didn't have to try so deliberately to set up a moody and oppressive atmosphere - it just came naturally. You didn't need to see generic angry guard #45 beating people over the head to get the idea. A great example of this is the Cragscleft Prison or Shalebridge Cradle levels from the first and third game respectively. I don't want to spoil it, but it'll put you on edge better than this game ever could.

They altered his character too, and not for the better. Old Garret makes these very snide remarks throughout the original games, which makes him an endearing character. He's confident in his abilities as a thief and does so to make ends meet. The first mission of The Dark Project has you breaking into a Lord's manor, upon discovering his throne room, Garret says "A throne room... how pretentious can you get?" The beauty is that he has no ulterior motives, he's just a guy doing what he does best in order to pay the rent.

But now, they turned him into this poetic reluctant hero archetype that we've seen so many times before. It's ham-fisted and cheesy, and doesn't do the original character any justice whatsoever.
 

TorchofThanatos

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Hazy said:
I am so happy to see this game getting slammed with mediocre scores. Maybe that will teach developers to stop bastardizing established franchises with "muh gritty grimdark reboot."
yeah, because them original games weren't dark and gritty at all, the were full of wonderful colors and dancing butterflies. While I do agree that a reboot is not always the right path to take, remaking old game is not a bad thing. Turning into dark and moody when original weren't is annoying, see Tome Raider but there wasn't much to those game to begin with. Everything is subjective however, I liked DMC but apparently not a lot of other people did. Yeah, it may have some massive issues but it was fun. I kinda like the developer so I hope this games does well.
 

Hazy

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TorchofThanatos said:
Hazy said:
I am so happy to see this game getting slammed with mediocre scores. Maybe that will teach developers to stop bastardizing established franchises with "muh gritty grimdark reboot."
yeah, because them original games weren't dark and gritty at all, the were full of wonderful colors and dancing butterflies. While I do agree that a reboot is not always the right path to take, remaking old game is not a bad thing. Turning into dark and moody when original weren't is annoying, see Tome Raider but there wasn't much to those game to begin with. Everything is subjective however, I liked DMC but apparently not a lot of other people did. Yeah, it may have some massive issues but it was fun. I kinda like the developer so I hope this games does well.
I touched on this in the post right above yours. ^

The key word in my original post is "grimdark"
 

synobal

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I've really been enjoying the game. It's stealth mechanics are really solid, the movement and such feels really good. My only complaint so far is context sensitive jumping.

The story is a mess and garret wears a corset, but it's good, a really solid game. Honestly all the reviews for this I've seen remind me of the reviews for Alpha Protocol, and how it was pretty much panned all around but ended up being a cult classic.
 

Imbechile

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Kolyarut said:
Really surprised how many people would rather see the game be bad so they can gloat rather than hoping the game be good so they can enjoy it.
Nobody wants to see the game be bad.

Everyone wanted the new Thief game to be as good or even better that the originals. Or at least close.....

But, if you've been following this game, it's pretty clear from everything we've seen and read the new Thief is a betrayal, a dumbed-down abomination for the masses.

THAT is why people want it to fail.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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man, it's one sucky month for gaming. First Lightning Returns, now this, and LoS2 is turning out to be a flop as well. Criminy, March cannot come quick enough. It seems Dishonored beat Thief to being a Thief reboot.
 

deathbydeath

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Slycne said:
Sadly, whatever stars aligned for Deus Ex didn't quite repeat.
I beg to differ, at least from what I've seen. When I was done playing Human Revolution, my general conclusion was that Eidos Montreal just doesn't understand what makes games work, at least not on a non-superficial level. While HR wasn't a bad game by a long shot, the writing was still on the wall here.

Personally, I think EM should pull an Irrational and stick with making games that are distinctly spiritual successors but nobody these days has the balls to come up with a new IP, so I suppose we're fucked on that front. At least we'll always have Supergiant...
 

tzimize

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Why the fuck are there leaderboards in anything? How can anyone find it rewarding to be #345 of ANYTHING? If I was the best at everything (or at least SOME things) there might be something to it, but honestly...who the fuck wants to know how they do compared to the rest of the world? I want to have FUN when I play. Not play to get statistics to throw in the face of...noone at all since I dont KNOW the rest of the world...

OT: Not a big surprise here.
 

Kolyarut

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Imbechile said:
Kolyarut said:
Really surprised how many people would rather see the game be bad so they can gloat rather than hoping the game be good so they can enjoy it.
Nobody wants to see the game be bad.

Everyone wanted the new Thief game to be as good or even better that the originals. Or at least close.....

But, if you've been following this game, it's pretty clear from everything we've seen and read the new Thief is a betrayal, a dumbed-down abomination for the masses.

THAT is why people want it to fail.
That really doesn't sound remotely like the game described in the review, which reads like a genuinely fun game with some tech issues and a somewhat dull story. I'd be really curious to hear how about how it's been "dumbed down" (a phrase that's misapplied in 90% of the cases it's used) or what exactly makes it an "abomination", because that really hasn't been made clear yet.

Mass appeal isn't a bad thing at all. You really expected them to exclusively go after people who'd played the originals, and shut out anyone who didn't pick it up / wasn't born first time round?
 

Whoracle

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Kolyarut said:
[...]I'd be really curious to hear how about how it's been "dumbed down" (a phrase that's misapplied in 90% of the cases it's used)[...]
Not touching the "abomination thing with a 10-foot pole until I've played it myself, but you can see the dumbed down* just from reviews:
- Cutting levels in half with loading zones in between, because the hardware can't take it. That means that you WILL have choke points and mandatory level entrances. In the first 2 games, you could explore the levels seamlessly, and T:DS got a whole shitstorm about that. Back then, they did it to accomodate the original XBOX's hardware. I'm not sure if EM was just technically challenged (dumbed down in a technical sense because BLINGMAPPING) or they really thought people'd be overwhelmed yb multiple avenues of access. Going by my next point, if I had to really answer that, I'd say 2, because...
- Limiting vaulting/jumping to context sensitive hotspots. In the other games, you could mantle/climb any obstacle that had the right height. The first 2 gave you rope arrows, too, that you could shoot in a LOT of places. T:DS did away with the rope arrows completely, but still let you jump/climb. The new thief let's you mantle/jump over specific obstacles. Once again, EM opted to give you a few (maybe even only one or two, dunno yet, but still an artificially limited number) of avenues to approach your goals. And for this I can't think of a technical limitation, so I'll have to go with the "our customers might be overwhelmed by too many choices" answer.

I'm not talking about loot glow or anything, because you can thankfully customize that to a surprising degree from what I've heard. And I can't talk about the sound engine, because I haven't played it, although from reports that one isn't a s sophisticated as it used to be in the earlier games. But the two points above stand, and you can see those for yourself from any 5-minute-gameplay footage.

*and not "dumbed down because LOLCONSOLETARDS". The first one _might_ be, but I doubt it. The second one absolutely has nothing to do with the platform, but all to do with level/mission design...
 

Imbechile

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Kolyarut said:
That really doesn't sound remotely like the game described in the review, which reads like a genuinely fun game with some tech issues and a somewhat dull story.
And this review from a critic that specialises in stealth games says otherwise: http://pastebin.com/TD4waGdv

Kolyarut said:
I'd be really curious to hear how about how it's been "dumbed down" (a phrase that's misapplied in 90% of the cases it's used) or what exactly makes it an "abomination", because that really hasn't been made clear yet.
Not trying to be a dick...... but, as you said it yourself, you haven't played the originals. So how am I going to explain how it's dumbed down?
First I would need to explain the whole gameplay of the originals(which would take a lot of time and a lot of paragraphs).

Kolyarut said:
Mass appeal isn't a bad thing at all. You really expected them to exclusively go after people who'd played the originals, and shut out anyone who didn't pick it up / wasn't born first time round?
Mass appeal is a bad thing when you got a series that is pretty niche. To make it appeal to a wide audience you have to simplify the gameplay.
 

SecondPrize

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What happened to the industry that made a company developing a Thief game feel they had to rip off Dishonored?
 

Elfgore

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Never having playing a Thief game before in my life, this game had me interested. It looked like Dishonered with a much larger emphasis on stealth. But after seeing all of these reviews, I'm skipping out until it lowers in price.
 

Storm Dragon

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I know the horrible truth about the Rope Arrows already, but can anyone tell me if the maps are like the ones in the first two games? Because I loved the hell out of those maps. Unlike in modern games, they didn't show exactly where you were and what direction you were facing with GPS precision, they were just hand-drawn maps or architectural plans that merely highlighted the general area you were in. I loved looking through them, picking out where I needed to go, and planning my route.





I can perfectly understand this map frustrating many players, given that it's merely a vague representation of an area that was largely destroyed by a volcano hundreds if not thousands of years ago, but I saw it as another puzzle to solve.

EDIT:

I took one look at the picture of those claw-hand things and got an immediate "oh crap" feeling.
 

The Madman

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Sad but ultimately predictable. Having been following the games development from the start it just never seems like the developers had a clear goal or viosion in mind when it came to creating the new thief game. Whether they wanted it to be like the originals or its own unique beast and just how big of an influence stealth and combat should play on the game.

So yeah, unfortunate but predictable.

Elfgore said:
Never having playing a Thief game before in my life, this game had me interested. It looked like Dishonered with a much larger emphasis on stealth. But after seeing all of these reviews, I'm skipping out until it lowers in price.
Why not try the originals? The updated versions GOG sells work fine on new computers and other than the graphics, the games have aged surprisingly gracefully. There's also the masterful Dark Mod which recreates Thief's gameplay but with modern visuals if graphics are really that big of an obstacle yet you still want to see how the series plays.

Lots of options out there for getting into the Thief franchise beyond this latest entry into the franchise, and all of which are considerably cheaper.
 

fluxy100

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So the story sucks but the rest of the game is pretty good? Not really sure how that counts as a mess but whatever, I'm happy to know that at least the gameplay is fun
 

Slycne

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Storm Dragon said:
I know the horrible truth about the Rope Arrows already, but can anyone tell me if the maps are like the ones in the first two games? Because I loved the hell out of those maps. Unlike in modern games, they didn't show exactly where you were and what direction you were facing with GPS precision, they were just hand-drawn maps or architectural plans that merely highlighted the general area you were in. I loved looking through them, picking out where I needed to go, and planning my route.
I would put it firmly better than most games, but not nearly up to snuff of the originals. As mentioned in the review, most of the missions will have several available routes. Your pretty firmly funneled into those being the only viable options, so it's less about exploring a big map, though some of them do approach this, and more just finding the hidden predesignated paths, like a hidden grate or easy rope arrow spot to bypass, or forcing your own with distractions. As for the maps themselves, they have more modern day mission prompts pointing you towards objectives, but these can be disabled and there are hidden objectives to discover for properly exploring. One lingering issues caused by not having larger maps though is it makes traversal pretty easy, even if you alert a bunch of guards if you can get to one of the loading screen hiding transitions you're scot free.
 

major_chaos

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What I find weird is that some people are doing the normal "ITS NOT EXACTLY LIKE THE ORIGINAL!!! HERESY!!!" thing but at the same time some of the review snippets on Metacritic complain that the game feels dated and stayed too close to its roots at the expense of innovation, and those two statements seem incompatible.
(Disclaimer: I don't like the old games and have little interest in the reboot so I have no horse in this race)
 

Klagermeister

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Meh, mediocre reviews never really bother me when it comes to games I enjoy.
These days, some people can't manage to look past the old "WAAAH IT'S NOT LIKE THE ORIGINALS" yet at the exact same time say things like "Why are developers scared to do things outside the norm?".

I enjoy this game. Very very much. Hell, I never played the originals so I'm in no position to give a shit about Garrett's character changes, but his voice sounds glorious and he's snarky as ever.
Basso, your friend in-game, threatens to turn his bird into a hat to which Garrett replies "It probably wouldn't be best to kill the brains of your operation."
He has a snarky response to just about everything and I absolutely love him as a character.

The gameplay is varied enough and doesn't hold your hand in the slightest, allowing you to look at the situation to best understand what your approach should be. There is a lot of improvising involved, and on-the-fly decision making that puts you on edge which really adds a lot to the experience.

TL;DR, judge this game as a stand-alone and you'll understand why I personally think it's awesome.
I love this game, having a lot of fun with it, regardless of any comments of "b-b-but here's why you shouldn't!"
 

Slycne

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Klagermeister said:
I enjoy this game. Very very much. Hell, I never played the originals
These statements are in the wrong order. It should be "Hell, I never played the originals, so I enjoy this game."

And that's fine. But once you have played the originals you'll see what the gnashing of teeth is about. It's not like these guys didn't have a great example of how a great Thief game could be made. That's what's pissing people off so much.

I mean, they've screwed up the sound? Some of the best moments in the original were being forced to hide in a blind corner so while the guards couldn't see you, neither could you see them. The only way you knew when it was safe to make a dash for it was by listening to their boots: marble..carpet..wood..marble..carpeNOW!

Of course, the sound not working well would explain what the article writer means about the "hiding" being dodgy. They probably had to fudge it so that you could always use your sight to determine where the guards are.
 

Ldude893

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That bad, huh? Shame, I was almost interested in how this game could turn out.

I can't wait to see Yahtzee tear this game a new one in the next two weeks.
 

Krantos

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I understand why long time Thief fans are upset, I do. But seriously, the game is FAAAAR from being as bad as people are making it out to be. It's a very, very solid stealth game.

IF

Big IF, you prefer to ghost, use items as rarely as possible, and can forgive poor story telling and characters in favor of simply good stealth gameplay.

In short-

Cons
-More linear than previous Thief Games
-Story makes no sense
-UI is not the greatest
-No Action, all Stealth
-Often requires lots of trial and error
-AI is on par with other stealth games and may even be a bit more alert.

Pros
-More open levels than most modern stealth games
-No Action, all Stealth
-Lots of nice stealthy touches (breaking a glass leaves glass on the floor, making it harder to stay quiet)
-Very solid movement
-Very good interplay between light and shadow
-Very good atmosphere

I get why people are disappointed in the game, but making it out to be absolutely horrible or "An abomination" is just silly. It's solid stealth experience. 7-8/10 In my opinion.

Not "The best game evar" but not broken either.
 

Klagermeister

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Krantos said:
I understand why long time Thief fans are upset, I do. But seriously, the game is FAAAAR from being as bad as people are making it out to be. It's a very, very solid stealth game.

IF

Big IF, you prefer to ghost, use items as rarely as possible, and can forgive poor story telling and characters in favor of simply good stealth gameplay.

In short-

Cons
-More linear than previous Thief Games
-Story makes no sense
-UI is not the greatest
-No Action, all Stealth
-Often requires lots of trial and error
-AI is on par with other stealth games and may even be a bit more alert.

Pros
-More open levels than most modern stealth games
-No Action, all Stealth
-Lots of nice stealthy touches (breaking a glass leaves glass on the floor, making it harder to stay quiet)
-Very solid movement
-Very good interplay between light and shadow
-Very good atmosphere

I get why people are disappointed in the game, but making it out to be absolutely horrible or "An abomination" is just silly. It's solid stealth experience. 7-8/10 In my opinion.

Not "The best game evar" but not broken either.
You put it far better than I did in my above post. Agree with everything here, except that I think alert guard AI isn't exactly a CON, as stealth games rely a lot on difficulty, which good AI definitely bumps up.

Judge this game as a standalone and you'll certainly see it in a far better light.
Kwil said:
I mean, they've screwed up the sound? Some of the best moments in the original were being forced to hide in a blind corner so while the guards couldn't see you, neither could you see them. The only way you knew when it was safe to make a dash for it was by listening to their boots: marble..carpet..wood..marble..carpeNOW!
The only way the sound is "screwed up" is that sometimes the voice doesn't sync with the animation and the music makes it impossible to hear voices during cutscenes sometimes. SOMETIMES.
Other than that, those exact situations you described are very much still in the game. I remember going about the Jeweler's Shop in that exact way, recognizing where the carpets were compared to the wood and knowing that suddenly hearing muffled footsteps was a sign that I should get out of the way.

So if you think this issue with the game is present, it isn't. Sound is still a very important and very viable tool for progressing through the game unseen.
 

martyrdrebel27

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Astalano said:
This review is meh. Doesn't tell me anything about the game.

Seriously, every other review on Thief is so ambigious as to why it's 'bad'. If it's such a mess explain why. That's the point of a review.
I was thinking something similar. I didn't like this review, the way it was written, the way it based a piece of ridicule in the review off of a console specific feature (how does the Xbox version handle gadgets??) and in general, the review was just.. Meh. The phrase "secret hidden vault" just reeks of bad writing.

I've actually seen a number of poor reviews on the escapist, which is oddly out of place here, in my opinion.
 

The Madman

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Klagermeister said:
These days, some people can't manage to look past the old "WAAAH IT'S NOT LIKE THE ORIGINALS" yet at the exact same time say things like "Why are developers scared to do things outside the norm?".
They took a series I love and made it worse, so while you're free to love the game to your hearts content forgive me for not exactly being the most enthusiastic about this release.

And frankly I'd have been perfectly happy with the devs sticking to the established norm for this one, seeing as it's not exactly like there are many alternatives to Thief nowadays. As an example if you don't like Call of Duty or Battlefield there are a million other shooters out there, but if I don't like the new Thief game that's it. The only other options are to keep playing the Dark Mod and the originals.

Such a pity. Still on the bright side maybe some of the people introduced to the series with this newer title will give the old classics a try at some point and get into the modding community. That would be nice!
 

sXeth

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Watching a vid of the PS4 version, it should also be noted that the graphics are way off kilter on it (everything is overbright), and the inventory is some godawful attempt to use the touchpad instead of the much more practical weapaon-wheel you get on PC.

In the meat and potatoes area, its competent enough, but not up to par with its predecessors, or the obvious comparison in Dishonored.
 

chozo_hybrid

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Played it for about 3 hours at a friend, I enjoyed it. It's not the old Thief I remember, but it was still fun to play. You can tell an honest effort was made in making this title, things like the custom difficulty settings and such make it re playable too. Is it perfect? Hell no, but it scratches that stealth itch, and if it does okay, they may get to make another, better one if they listen to fans. They did their best in that regard to Deus Ex with the directors cut.

Like other reboots, I think we need to take it on its own a little more. That said, I understand if you can't bring yourself to do that.

Will be buying it in a few weeks when my bills are paid I think :)
 

Yossarian1507

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synobal said:
I've really been enjoying the game. It's stealth mechanics are really solid, the movement and such feels really good. My only complaint so far is context sensitive jumping.

The story is a mess and garret wears a corset, but it's good, a really solid game. Honestly all the reviews for this I've seen remind me of the reviews for Alpha Protocol, and how it was pretty much panned all around but ended up being a cult classic.
The Alpha Protocol comparison fills me with hope (I was one of those selected few, who defended that game from Release Day, and I'm so happy, that many people finally took my side on that one).

I'm a big fan of Thief games. All of them. Yes, I think Deadly Shadows was brilliant, and while it wasn't as open-ended on approach level as T1 and T2, it actually improved many of the series aspects (mostly on technological level. TDP and MA were old games, Deadly Shadows really benefited from the 2004 designer skills), while maintaining amazing atmosphere, and general spirit of the series (also Shalebridge Cradle - the second best level in the series right after The Haunted Cathedral from The Dark Project), and it always baffled me, why there is so many people bashing it. It seems like it might be the same case here. This game isn't out here where I'm living (for some reason, the release date is always on Tuesday everywhere else, and on Friday in Poland), so in anticipation I read every single review, and honestly - I didn't know how to feel about this one. I think this one comment, and Alpha Protocol comparison especially, may just persuade me over to insta-buy it. After all, I was in this situation before, and judging from current general opinion, I turned out to be right. Maybe it's time for me to believe, that something I really want to be good really is good, and ignore the reviews.
 

Evonisia

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Surely it can't be as boring and linear as Deadly Shadows, right?

Oh well, I still want to at least try it. It looks interesting, I want to play a Thief game that doesn't have people made of construction paper and maybe the existence of this will allow for newer, more interesting Thief games (by more interesting I mean more than 3 and 4).
 

Shoggoth2588

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Aug 31, 2009
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If anybody is or has purchased the PS3 version, how is it in terms of glitches? I'm still interested in grabbing this one but I have no intention of getting a PS4 for the thing (honestly it sounds like all I'll be missing out on is the sexy new lighting effects).
 

SnakeoilSage

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Sep 20, 2011
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I'd be willing to forgive a lot, given that I have the original Thief games and still enjoy them immensely. I just got to the Bank Heist level on Expert in Thief 2 before I started reading this review. If I want a game where the "sneaking is the sneakiest and the sprawling levels are the sprawliest" as Yahtzee would say, then I can just play those.

But. You mentioned in your review that the factions and story of the original games is gone and only a thief named Garrett and a city called The City exist. That's a problem. That's a big problem for me because one of the core aspects of Thief as a series has been its unique setting, where everyone is kind of grey in morality and the only difference is the conflict between Order and Chaos.

And it might seem petty, but no Stephen Russell? That's low, Square-Enix. And you're already dangling from the bottom rung. This story could have been easily adapted to portray an older Garrett, hell it practically READS like a direct sequel, and no one would have complained. Not. One. Person.

Excuse me. I have to go see to a thief about a bank job. The rent is due, and my landlord is even tougher than the Hammers.
 

svenjl

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Mar 16, 2011
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I've watched some gameplay vids with commentary, as well as read several reviews. Two of the main criticisms seem to be the story (both in terms of content and the way it's told) and the way certain mechanics are implemented for use. The story and exposition of it have copped flak as much because in a 'cinematic' sense the game over-explains everything, rather than letting things evolve over time through gameplay and exploration. Then there is, for example, the rope arrow which can only be used when the intended target is marked in the appropriate way - thus the game limits and dictates what you can and can't do in an overt way.. This also goes for climbing around the environment. 'Dishonoured' handled vertical movement and exploration much more naturally in that if a ledge, window or wall was within Corvo's ability to reach it you could get there. It wasn't as arbitrary in the same way as 'Thief' seems to have made it. Therefore Garret looks (I haven't played the game yet) much more restricted as a rule, unless the game dictates that you can suddenly exhibit thief-like agility in traversing the environment. It would have been better for Eidos to design levels to match what garret can do, rather than ultimately highlight what he can't.
 

Slycne

Tank Ninja
Feb 19, 2006
3,422
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synobal said:
I've really been enjoying the game. It's stealth mechanics are really solid, the movement and such feels really good. My only complaint so far is context sensitive jumping.

The story is a mess and garret wears a corset, but it's good, a really solid game. Honestly all the reviews for this I've seen remind me of the reviews for Alpha Protocol, and how it was pretty much panned all around but ended up being a cult classic.
thats my issue as well. context sensitive jumping was a really bad design choice. i get they didnt want people mistiming jumps and doing a swan dive off a roof top but still it feels hand holding and paint by numbers thieving
 

synobal

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wombat_of_war said:
synobal said:
I've really been enjoying the game. It's stealth mechanics are really solid, the movement and such feels really good. My only complaint so far is context sensitive jumping.

The story is a mess and garret wears a corset, but it's good, a really solid game. Honestly all the reviews for this I've seen remind me of the reviews for Alpha Protocol, and how it was pretty much panned all around but ended up being a cult classic.
thats my issue as well. context sensitive jumping was a really bad design choice. i get they didnt want people mistiming jumps and doing a swan dive off a roof top but still it feels hand holding and paint by numbers thieving
Try customizing your difficulty then, I started it up on the default mode and was like "Ya this is way to easy" went back put it on custom disabled most everything (except for chapter only saves and a few others) and went back. So much more fun.
 

Nurb

Cynical bastard
Dec 9, 2008
3,078
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0
It's basically Deadly Shadows all over again, but it's not worse, so the disappointment isn't as bad as it was then, so it's just average with NO visual style at all.

The City reminds me of a more built up city in Skyrim.
 

Silly Hats

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Dec 26, 2012
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Eh.. it's not as boring as what people are making it out to be, i'm still enjoying it - Though anything similar to Thief is always worth supporting. They've put a lot of effort into making it and I appreciate that atleast. I'd give it a 4/5.

I've been blazing through in 'Ghost' and the storyline seems to be flowing fast enough.

My only recommendation is to immediately turn off the music - it really really adds to the atmosphere. That and playing with a pint of Imperial Red Ale.
 

svenjl

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Mar 16, 2011
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Silly Hats said:
Eh.. it's not as boring as what people are making it out to be, i'm still enjoying it - Though anything similar to Thief is always worth supporting. They've put a lot of effort into making it and I appreciate that atleast. I'd give it a 4/5.

I've been blazing through in 'Ghost' and the storyline seems to be flowing fast enough.

My only recommendation is to immediately turn off the music - it really really adds to the atmosphere. That and playing with a pint of Imperial Red Ale.
From what I've seen and read, this seems to be the way to go (including the ale part of course). Play it on as hard a difficulty as possible with lots of the assist type options turned off. Really make it a test of patience and stealth skills and become immersed in the world on that basis.
 
Oct 22, 2011
1,215
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Storm Dragon said:
(...)can anyone tell me if the maps are like the ones in the first two games?
I'm afraid maps are even worse than in Deadly Shadows. Not that those in DS were godawful or something, but downplaying level design aspect even more is a big 'no' in my book.

EDIT:

I took one look at the picture of those claw-hand things and got an immediate "oh crap" feeling.
Oh man, freakin' Craybeasts *shudders*. Those things creeped me out even more than Haunts.
 

O maestre

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Nov 19, 2008
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martyrdrebel27 said:
Astalano said:
This review is meh. Doesn't tell me anything about the game.

Seriously, every other review on Thief is so ambigious as to why it's 'bad'. If it's such a mess explain why. That's the point of a review.
I was thinking something similar. I didn't like this review, the way it was written, the way it based a piece of ridicule in the review off of a console specific feature (how does the Xbox version handle gadgets??) and in general, the review was just.. Meh. The phrase "secret hidden vault" just reeks of bad writing.

I've actually seen a number of poor reviews on the escapist, which is oddly out of place here, in my opinion.
really don't see if I can take the reviewer seríously he didn't even get the release date right... or was this released in 2013? and half of the review was about narrative, how about expanding the paragraph about gameplay, or going into detail with the mechanics of this game. I haven't played a thief game before so I have no frame of reference, and therefore need a more details, nevermind I'll see if I can find some sort of lets play
 

Slycne

Tank Ninja
Feb 19, 2006
3,422
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0
Yossarian1507 said:
synobal said:
I've really been enjoying the game. It's stealth mechanics are really solid, the movement and such feels really good. My only complaint so far is context sensitive jumping.

The story is a mess and garret wears a corset, but it's good, a really solid game. Honestly all the reviews for this I've seen remind me of the reviews for Alpha Protocol, and how it was pretty much panned all around but ended up being a cult classic.
The Alpha Protocol comparison fills me with hope (I was one of those selected few, who defended that game from Release Day, and I'm so happy, that many people finally took my side on that one).

I'm a big fan of Thief games. All of them. Yes, I think Deadly Shadows was brilliant, and while it wasn't as open-ended on approach level as T1 and T2, it actually improved many of the series aspects (mostly on technological level. TDP and MA were old games, Deadly Shadows really benefited from the 2004 designer skills), while maintaining amazing atmosphere, and general spirit of the series (also Shalebridge Cradle - the second best level in the series right after The Haunted Cathedral from The Dark Project), and it always baffled me, why there is so many people bashing it. It seems like it might be the same case here. This game isn't out here where I'm living (for some reason, the release date is always on Tuesday everywhere else, and on Friday in Poland), so in anticipation I read every single review, and honestly - I didn't know how to feel about this one. I think this one comment, and Alpha Protocol comparison especially, may just persuade me over to insta-buy it. After all, I was in this situation before, and judging from current general opinion, I turned out to be right. Maybe it's time for me to believe, that something I really want to be good really is good, and ignore the reviews.
be careful. i loved alpha protocol and its my favourite rpg full stop in spite of the flaws. but the contextual controls in thief make it a frustrating experience to say the least so much so that after 2 hours ive uninstalled it. weirdly i enjoyed wandering around, breaking and entering, the story, etc but yeah the controls were too much and a bad design choice for me.

first game of 2014 ive regretted buying
 

DarkhoIlow

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Dec 31, 2009
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I am the one in the camp of "I enjoyed it" which seems to be growing smaller and smaller.

I did play all the previous Thief games and I do realize that they are the better product. But unfortunately we are living in 2014 where some standards and casualizations/consolizations must be made in order to get the most bang for your buck for having to cut out content and features so that the games can run on ancient 8yo hardware. It still amazez me how the developers can make a supposed "next gen" game even work on consoles with 512 ram.

In a world where Dishonored was already released and set the bar quite high somewhat for stealth/action games (it was overall a well received game), it's quite hard to try to please both the fans and the ones that are not familiar with the previous games (which in this case is kinda the majority) and try to cater to the crowd that thinks "Oh, this is another Dishonored!" and in this case it failed.

The game was good overall, but the ending was rather lackluster and anticlimactic.
 

VladG

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Aug 24, 2010
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From the little I've played, I can say the gameplay is competent, for the most part. Stealth is pretty solid, and it's reasonably fun to play. Hiding in shadows works pretty much how you'd expect, though the enemy AI isn't as solid as they claimed and, coupled with the fairly restrictive level design, doesn't offer any sort of emergent gameplay. The experience is pretty linear overall.

Sound design is pretty bad, and it actively detracts from the experience, both breaking immersion and impacting the gameplay. Hopefully it will get patched. I personally find the voice acting pretty amateurish and the writing even worse. Garret's lines feel unnatural and forced, making him feel more like a petulant adolescent than a cynical master-thief.

Visuals are quite beautiful, and run well on a new, middle-spec PC(~40 average FPS with everything maxed out). Textures and models aren't great, but the lighting and post-processing are very good, so overall the game looks great (even if the visual design is fairly bland and unoriginal)

For someone who hasn't played the original games, but still enjoys good stealth gameplay, Thief isn't all that bad. The core gameplay is solid. But you won't get much more out of it. Story is standard and boring, and so are the characters.

However if you have played the original games, the lack of proper story, atmosphere, characters and the comparatively very restrictive gameplay will completely kill the experience for you. This is not a good Thief game.
 

MrBaskerville

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Mar 15, 2011
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If the story is the thing holding it back, then i might give it a go, i was planning to skip the story parts anyway... The question remaining is, is the story something you can easily ignore or is the game filled with those stupid unskipable pseudo cutscene moments where you are forced to walk slowly while people talk into your ear? In other words, is it filled with stupid shit like Dishonored was or is it hidden away in logs and cutscenes?
 

iseko

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It seems a lot of these complaints (more specifically the audio problems and frame rates) can be fixed with an update or two. Sad that that is necessary but it is the time we live in. The story being meh is not something you can fix that easily. However if the core gameplay is in order (and it seems to be) then all is not lost. I wonder if they will fix it though. Time will tell. Still... it looks a LOT better then a lot of games out there. I think what we have here is a case of: being judged by the games that came before. Which is fair and not fair depending on the way you look at it I suppose.

I for one am going to wait this one out. Buy it when price is cut in half or on sale somewhere. Maybe by then there will be some updates for it.
 

Blood Brain Barrier

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Nov 21, 2011
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The original Thief was ordinary. Original perhaps (although how original can you be with a story about a guy who steals stuff?), but I didn't find anything about it very interesting or well done. It was also very frustrating with the game telling me I should be invisible but then being spotted.
 

Quellist

Migratory coconut
Oct 7, 2010
1,443
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Colour me unsurpised. The only thing that im a little shocked by is that they got some decent gameplay in there, even if it is horribly stilted and constrained.

Guss Dishonoured will retain its crown as the true spiritual successor to Thief, even if it doesn't have a light and shadow mechanic
 

Hawk eye1466

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May 31, 2010
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I've been enjoying the game for the most part, I do miss the old voice actor but to the new ones credit he does a decent job with what he's been given. The stealth works and the environments are alright. My two biggest problems are that the hub world at times is a maze that takes forever to get around without just beating the guards unconscious, and occasionally the audio gets messed up and you hear conversations you shouldn't or they repeat nonstop.

It's not as bad as I feared it would be but it's not as great as I hoped, although if they do make another I really hope they learn from this and improve because this could have been great but it's only average.
 

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
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So the new Thief is basically Dishonored with less focus on stabby-stabby and super powers? Pretty much what I thought it'd be.
 

AzrealMaximillion

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O maestre said:
martyrdrebel27 said:
Astalano said:
This review is meh. Doesn't tell me anything about the game.

Seriously, every other review on Thief is so ambigious as to why it's 'bad'. If it's such a mess explain why. That's the point of a review.
I was thinking something similar. I didn't like this review, the way it was written, the way it based a piece of ridicule in the review off of a console specific feature (how does the Xbox version handle gadgets??) and in general, the review was just.. Meh. The phrase "secret hidden vault" just reeks of bad writing.

I've actually seen a number of poor reviews on the escapist, which is oddly out of place here, in my opinion.
really don't see if I can take the reviewer seríously he didn't even get the release date right... or was this released in 2013? and half of the review was about narrative, how about expanding the paragraph about gameplay, or going into detail with the mechanics of this game. I haven't played a thief game before so I have no frame of reference, and therefore need a more details, nevermind I'll see if I can find some sort of lets play
I agree. I'm borderline done with reviews written on websites as they've stopped being informative and are becoming more opinion based.

The point of a review is to first and foremost inform the potential consumer and lately on this site and many others, reviewers have forgotten this. This is also compounded by the rampant defense of "its he reviewers subjective opinion" as a valid excuse by other forum posters.

Video games are unique in that there are a lot of objective criticisms that can be made about them, more so than movies and TV. Reviews have by in large forgotten this and choose to state only their subjective opinion games. With no objective information to go off of the review is pretty much invalid.

It's the same situation that got Total War Rome 2 a 4/5 on this site when the game upon release was not mechanically fit be sold to people due to the obscene amount of bugs and game crashing glitches.
 

sageoftruth

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Tahaneira said:
Hazy said:
I am so happy to see this game getting slammed with mediocre scores. Maybe that will teach developers to stop bastardizing established franchises with "muh gritty grimdark reboot."
Uh... I'll be the first to admit I haven't played much of the original Thief games, but they don't strike me as being light and cheerful. Hell, this Garrett sounds like he's less of a bastard than the original.
Most of the charm really came from the NPCs in the earlier games. Garret's role was merely to cynically comment about the environment around him but said environment included a religious cult based on technological progress with verse-spouting sentry bots, and hilariously dumb guards, who were clearly educated in nothing outside of guard duty. I'd say it's a gritty reboot if the guards end up going from being hilarious to being just plain menacing.
 

ResonanceGames

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Feb 25, 2011
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RJ 17 said:
So the new Thief is basically Dishonored with less focus on stabby-stabby and super powers? Pretty much what I thought it'd be.
No, that's not what it is at all. Thief is linear, full of cutscenes, 3rd person climbing sequences, tiny load areas, button mash sequences, and a tedious city hub that leads to all the missions. For all their superficial plot and setting similarities, Thief is almost the anti-Dishonored.
 

Krantos

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Jun 30, 2009
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ResonanceGames said:
No, that's not what it is at all. Thief is linear, full of cutscenes, 3rd person climbing sequences, tiny load areas, button mash sequences, and a tedious city hub that leads to all the missions. For all their superficial plot and setting similarities, Thief is almost the anti-Dishonored.
Erm.. granted I'm only about 1/2 way through the game, so far that doesn't really match what I've experienced so far.

1. Thief is no more linear than Dishonored, even less so in many instances. And you can even go for a while without doing story missions by exploring the city and chasing down side missions.

2. The city hub is only tedious if all you want to do is the story missions. There is a ton of stuff to find and places to loot in it if you do a little exploring.

3. There are only 2 instances that I've encountered button mashing -Opening windows and crawling through certain passages. (Though, to be honest, this still baffles me since there is no need for it at all).

4. I've also only encountered three 3rd person climbing sections, each of which lasted about 10-30 seconds. I still don't understand why they were included in the game, but they're so infrequent it doesn't really warrant getting upset over.

5. And the only cut scenes you see are at the beginning, end, and once or twice in the middle of story missions. Average running time for these scenes are about 1-5 minutes.


Don't misunderstand me, the game has some problems, but it seems like people are giving it a much worse reputation than it deserves.
 

ResonanceGames

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Krantos said:
ResonanceGames said:
No, that's not what it is at all. Thief is linear, full of cutscenes, 3rd person climbing sequences, tiny load areas, button mash sequences, and a tedious city hub that leads to all the missions. For all their superficial plot and setting similarities, Thief is almost the anti-Dishonored.
Erm.. granted I'm only about 1/2 way through the game, so far that doesn't really match what I've experienced so far.

1. Thief is no more linear than Dishonored, even less so in many instances. And you can even go for a while without doing story missions by exploring the city and chasing down side missions.

2. The city hub is only tedious if all you want to do is the story missions. There is a ton of stuff to find and places to loot in it if you do a little exploring.

3. There are only 2 instances that I've encountered button mashing -Opening windows and crawling through certain passages. (Though, to be honest, this still baffles me since there is no need for it at all).

4. I've also only encountered three 3rd person climbing sections, each of which lasted about 10-30 seconds. I still don't understand why they were included in the game, but they're so infrequent it doesn't really warrant getting upset over.

5. And the only cut scenes you see are at the beginning, end, and once or twice in the middle of story missions. Average running time for these scenes are about 1-5 minutes.


Don't misunderstand me, the game has some problems, but it seems like people are giving it a much worse reputation than it deserves.

When I say linear, I don't mean the way the story progresses, I mean the missions themselves. Some of them so far have had a few minor different ways to enter a building (do you want to enter through the window or the greenhouse?), but just as often they are as funneled as Call of Duty. And that's not an exaggeration, there is a good chunk of the game like that.

And I should have been more clear when I said "cutscenes." Between the pre-rendered cutscenes, the in-game cinematics, and the weird first person animation sequences, this game pulls control away from the player all the time.

Is it an outright disaster on every level? No. I've had some fun with it, especially the Bank Heist. But I'd have to argue that people who say it's "just like Dishonored" probably weren't paying very close attention to the way Dishonored was designed.
 

Bostur

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Mar 14, 2011
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I started playing by doing the bank robbery mission, without knowing it was a DLC mission. At that point I had high hopes for the game because that was great as an early simple mission. However after three chapters of storyline missions I got more and more disappointed. The areas are very linear and the world generally inconsistent. Sometimes objects can be interacted with sometimes not. It's not a good sign when designers need to mark the objects that they intend for players to use. Thief has spots of white paint on surfaces that can be scaled, because thats the only way to know where you are supposed to go and where you can jump.

This is not what a Thief game is about, it's about figuring out a route on your own, without being guided step by step. It's about making a plan, and then improvising when things go wrong. That not what this games does, it leads the player from setpiece to setpiece. It even has objective markers to make sure the player doesn't get lost. The story missions fail badly in terms of map design, and i dare say that Dishonoured is a more worthy successor than Thief is, even if it didn't attempt to be one.

Technically Thief works very well on the PC. It runs smoothly even on old hardware and looks great. I noticed a few glitches with NPCs spinning on the spot, something that may be fixed with a patch. I also agree with the review that the sound levels are off. Either you hear NPCs very loud or you don't hear them at all, sound should fade in and out properly, in a stealth game sound and light is very important. I also find that the music playing when Garret is about to be detected is too dramatic. Footsteps coming closer, or sudden light sources should by themselves provide the needed sense of danger, if done correctly.

The overall mechanics work reasonably well, it's a shame with the poor level design because this could have been so much better, as they even occasionally demonstrate.

I don't mind the storytelling. It seems competent and up to par with other games. Then again I'm rarely into games for the storytelling.

ResonanceGames said:
When I say linear, I don't mean the way the story progresses, I mean the missions themselves. Some of them so far have had a few minor different ways to enter a building (do you want to enter through the window or the greenhouse?), but just as often they are as funneled as Call of Duty. And that's not an exaggeration, there is a good chunk of the game like that.
Yep thats the biggest problem with the game. It's mostly linear with the occasional fork in the path. In the old games the player may have been faced with 8 different windows to a building, with no correct or wrong choice. Here we have the choice between taking the window or the door, the vent or the door.
 

RicoADF

Welcome back Commander
Jun 2, 2009
3,147
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0
Imbechile said:
Nobody wants to see the game be bad.

Everyone wanted the new Thief game to be as good or even better that the originals. Or at least close.....

But, if you've been following this game, it's pretty clear from everything we've seen and read the new Thief is a betrayal, a dumbed-down abomination for the masses.

THAT is why people want it to fail.
How has Theif been dumbed down? It's not a dumbed down game at any stretch. It's one of the few games that give you options on how you want to play your game, if you want it harder or less UI then you can have it, just change the settings.

The issues I've heard is technical problems with sound and that the missions are abit too linear and that's it. Have you played it or are you just hating for the sake of hating? Total Biscuit's review basically says everything I think of the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJS1yCSKlhs
 

Imbechile

New member
Aug 25, 2010
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RicoADF said:
How has Thief been dumbed down?
-Small, linear levels
-You can't jump whenever you want
-You can't shoot rope arrows wherever you want
-Terrible AI
-Focus
RicoADF said:
It's not a dumbed down game at any stretch.
If the above is not dumbing down I really don't know what is.
When you compare it to the originals, I really don't know how you can say "It's not a dumbed down game at any stretch." with a straight face.
Did you play the originals, or did you at least watch a walkthrough on youtube?
RicoADF said:
Have you played it or are you just hating for the sake of hating?
I watched a walkthrough on youtube.

For the record, I played the originals for the first time in 2011, so no "rose-tinted nostalgia glasses" here.
 

KimonoBoxFox

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Jun 1, 2011
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Tahaneira said:
Hazy said:
I am so happy to see this game getting slammed with mediocre scores. Maybe that will teach developers to stop bastardizing established franchises with "muh gritty grimdark reboot."
Uh... I'll be the first to admit I haven't played much of the original Thief games, but they don't strike me as being light and cheerful. Hell, this Garrett sounds like he's less of a bastard than the original.
The original Thiefs were more 'magical' and 'religious' in focus, and the dark and grim came less from growly scowly dick dastardly characters and vague mystery plagues--and more from zealots torturing unbelievers into a state of living death in some coal mines, and evil hags using ancient glyph magic to steal peoples' skin to wear as a disguise.

It was overall a much subtler series with lead-ins to its 'omergerd the world is doomed if yer dun help' hook. Garrett just never gave a shit if it involved him being put at risk--think of him as a cynical Scooby Doo and Shaggy with rent to pay--as opposed to the generic gritty hero batman wannabe he is in this game (thanks Orzari, thanks Eidos).

"If we can get into the Mechanist Cathedral, If you fill it with plants, IF I can find, let alone activate the beacon, all without being detected--That's too risky. We'll be killed. ... Your plan is suicide. I'll think of a better way."

That line from the briefing of the last mission in Thief II probably describes Garrett's personality in a nutshell. He wasn't a bad guy, he was just... absurdly pragmatic.

"Well you've got the danger part right, anyway. Tell you what. You Keepers can plant a few shrubs about town, and I'll take care of ME. I'll find my own way home."

Garrett was always a sort of character who was the focus of prophecies, without believing in 'any of that prophetic hogwash'. The new Garrett just seems a bit too eager to take up the call, by comparison. Almost like they're trying to force a Robin Hood vibe onto him--which Garrett is 'totally' not.

RicoADF said:
Imbechile said:
Nobody wants to see the game be bad.

Everyone wanted the new Thief game to be as good or even better that the originals. Or at least close.....

But, if you've been following this game, it's pretty clear from everything we've seen and read the new Thief is a betrayal, a dumbed-down abomination for the masses.

THAT is why people want it to fail.
How has Theif been dumbed down? It's not a dumbed down game at any stretch. It's one of the few games that give you options on how you want to play your game, if you want it harder or less UI then you can have it, just change the settings.

The issues I've heard is technical problems with sound and that the missions are abit too linear and that's it. Have you played it or are you just hating for the sake of hating? Total Biscuit's review basically says everything I think of the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJS1yCSKlhs
A good example would be in the use of rope arrows. In the first two Thief games (quake-era engines, mind you), any wood surface in a map was an eligible location to plant a rope arrow--and you could use them to effectively plot your own course around a heist, drop mission impossible style onto guards, and the like. Here, it's "there are exact, specific beams with a rope around them, you must plant an arrow here to advance". A weird shaped key to a weird shaped lock, and little else-it offers nothing to add to the gameplay but a few seconds of delay, and a need to have rope arrows constantly on hand to get to otherwise inaccessible loot rooms.

Likewise, there is inevitably one direct route through each mission, rather than having several and objectives that need fulfilled at different intervals across the entire map, as in prior installments.

For instance, in the brothel, there is a very explicit office you must find amidst optional looting, and once you've entered the secret door in that office, the game says "point of no return, you must continue down this linear pathway and fulfill our game's cinematic urges".

One of the most egregious examples of railroading actually throws you into third-person to scale a building, Prince of Persia style (as if the game has entirely forgotten what genre it's supposed to be). It would be like if Shadow of the Colossus suddenly turned into an FPS mid-boss, or if Mario suddenly became a point and click adventure game for about fifteen seconds. You can't skip this, either. There is no optional route to avoid the magical pipe of third-person-parkour-cutscenery. To top it off, the game then asks you to go to a spot, press the use key, and sit on a processing line hanging from a meathook for another precious ten or fifteen seconds to further progress through the map while you wait for a few more linear corridors. NOT OPEN LEVEL DESIGN.

But I think that my least favorite thing about the new Thief, is just that the 'stealth' itself isn't fun. This is mainly on account of the Guards being generally too competent, and unlikeably generic.

Sure, you can occasionally feel witty hiding in one of the 'myriad' cubbards, and treat yourself to a little pre-animated takedown--but the guards have eyes in the back of their head, and offer no remorse for your slip-ups before entering into combat. By comparison, the old guards would often write you off as a figment that had spooked them from drinking too much, or ask Garrett from over their shoulder in the dark if he was their boss come to check up on them. Funny, and sometimes scary stuff as you evaded a close call.

These new guards on the flip side, just immediately look you dead in the eye and start swinging their steel the moment their detection meter fills, and there's just no fun in that, compared to stealing Old Benny's bar tab and leaving him in a ditch because you thought it was time he sobered up. Add the same knockout cut-scene that has to hold you immobile for three seconds from victim to victim, and the stealthing becomes a flat-out 'chore' that even the swoop mechanic cannot hope to remedy.

To contrast, your approach in the old Thief may have been slow if you were afraid of detection, but the bopping on the head was quick and didn't hold you captive for a round of applause each time. You could even learn to land knock-outs from a jump, lean out of shadows, or beat a guard senseless at a sprint across a carpet of moss from your moss arrows--which lead to some truly satisfying guard take-downs that were 'yours' to orchestrate without the game feeling the need to force it on you.

Old Thief was fun because it was 'deep', and 'exploitable'. The New Thief has to stop to remind you that it's attempting to be open and full of choices with all its might, and even has a hard time doing that right, pressing you through one contrived obstacle after another in a series of set-pieces intended to amaze, that just kind of blend together into a grey mess, instead.
 

renegade7

New member
Feb 9, 2011
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Oh my...Yahtzee is not going to be happy.

Seriously, why are remakes a thing? The originals were fantastic. They didn't need remakes or reboots or whatever.
 

asdfen

New member
Oct 27, 2011
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cant bring myself to finish playing Thief.
The most defying problem of this game for me is that it does not stand out in any way does everything a bit worse than titles that have been recently released as well as introducing ton of little things like loading times that distract from experience. There is also no incentive for me to play forward as story is bogus and sneaking is not enjoyable. I think I am just going to replay latest Hitman again to get my sneaking fix and leave this alone.
 

Ohlookit'sMatty

New member
Sep 11, 2008
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If the game is a mess, why three stars? I've known for a long time that this game would be a disappointment // It's sad to see that I was right and it's worst to see all that made the Thief series taken away for a reboot // Why call it Thief if all you are going to do it use the main characters name?

-M