Things that Mass Effect 2 did WRONG
- Thread starter GruntOwner
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I'm surprised no one's mentioned the safe route taken with the love scenes. I rather miss the brief glimpses and short dialogue after it.
You make some good points, but I'm kind of amused by this. Personally, I can't stand FemShep's voice ("God, my life sucks...I need a cigarette...oh, is something going on?...I'm so bored"), and rather like MaleShep's. I'm particularly amused every time he says "about," because there's something deeply funny about the single biggest badass in the galaxy being Canadian.SomeBritishDude said:
No offense, Canucks
There wasn't anything I disliked, but I felt that the game could have a few more gun/armor options.
Unless they're making these DLC, which they seem to be so far. And as long as the DLC is free, I have no issues.
Unless they're making these DLC, which they seem to be so far. And as long as the DLC is free, I have no issues.
After watching this (http://www.destructoid.com/rev-rant-paragon-renegade-162407.phtml) I kinda wish Mass Effect 2 did force more consequential actions... Hmm, makes me want to replay ME2 without using any charm/intimidate options... except for stores.
I gotta say that I think ME2 didn't have anything with the same shock value that came from choosing whether Kaidan or Ashley died. I clearly remember my hands shaking after that one. Not to say they should have done the exact same thing again, but its a suicide mission and if you do things right no one dies? Oh come on.
As for the weapon system, I'm glad to see mods gone (with ammo types replacing them) but I do wish there could have been a bit more variety... not really sure what would do so however.
I gotta say that I think ME2 didn't have anything with the same shock value that came from choosing whether Kaidan or Ashley died. I clearly remember my hands shaking after that one. Not to say they should have done the exact same thing again, but its a suicide mission and if you do things right no one dies? Oh come on.
As for the weapon system, I'm glad to see mods gone (with ammo types replacing them) but I do wish there could have been a bit more variety... not really sure what would do so however.
GruntOwner said:
OP, your not original. All the threads tonight are anti-ME2 except for one which is does not even have more than one page of post, not even including all the people on the IRC who don't even have Mass Effect 2.
Other than that I have to disagree with your points. First point says that Infiltrators don't have to fight unlimited waves of badies, which is why they invented the stealth generator, so you can just run right past them to your objective. I had no problem doing that on both main, side and N7 missions. This works because when they spawn an endless horde of mecks, you have to just get past them to disable there main frame or something.
Your second point is wrong because you would be doing it for human dominance overall, and that is what a human Renegade strives for. He is a zealot, but for humans.(Not saying he is not an asshole as a Renegade, but it is still fun to watch him do that.)
Your other point about swearing is fine, I don't care about your morals.
And to anyone who want to flame me for liking the game, then you can go ahead, I don't care.
stop bitching about ME2 is a really good game yea some things are pretty shit but no game is ever perfect .. instead of ammo types thermal clips are way better its easier to manage with all your weapons.. yet again people are moaning about the combat yadda yadda go ***** to bioware
The first encounter with the blood pack when recruiting Mordin, I believe. Spend too long on that balcony and another krogan shows up, about as welcome as you'd expect.Furioso said:
The side mission featuring a corrupted LOKI mech plant.
Another with recruiting mordin is the large room with a balcony overhead. Heavies respawn on the balcony, ground soldiers from the door.
Those are the only ones which stand out on account of their size/annoyance (I've only just gotten out of the shower, my mind's not entirely on the game).
While I'm here, I think I may as well justify my opinion concerning the alignment system.
Paragon is described as doing things by the book, as per alliance protocol in the first one, and presumabley it's not too different for the second. Any sane military protocol will encourage intel collection and prudent choices with long term benefits (Eg, not carpet bombing the area you're trying to make friendly with). That station could have valuable information concerning collector weapons, therefore defenses against them, those swarms, so again with the defenses against them, Harbinger's possession technique and, presumabley, indoctrination. Most importantly, it could have contained masses of evidence convering the reaper's existence to get the council to believe in the Reaper threat, uniting them and making sure that they're ready when the time comes. If Shepherd went to the council with the IFF, etc, regardless of the Illusive Man's plans, then there'd be little risk of it being a soley human project, yet for some obscure reason the game flat out declared that you could not do that. Shepherd as a paragon comes across as an idealistic child serving the most short sighted military doctrine since the introduction of kaimkaze troops.
Renegade, supposedly a regulations-be-damned outlook, simply means picking a fight with every one you come across and being overly confrontational. There are a few occasions where they've gotten it right, though between the trivial renegade choices making no sense and the huge paragon choices making even less, they kinda get buried in tripe.
As a footnote, apology accepted.
i haven't played either ME game, but about the swearing i just wanted to note: when people swear they probably, 99% of the time, are not thinking of better ways to get a point across. If it's put in a game in a similar fashion, i don't really see it as a problem
Personally there were two major points I disliked.
The lack of weapons and armor, yes they had some, but 20 odd weapon and less armour bits just felt pointless, I didn't mind the upgrade functions, but honestly, there needed to be more guns so people with different play types could get the weapons they wanted. I'd kill for a 6 round clip, 30 round total, sniper rifle, the viper hits like my grandmother, and the others have bugger all ammo.
The second for me was the Citadel and other major hubs, after the first game where the Citadel was fairly large, and you could wander around and explore, there is nothing really to explore in Mass Effect 2 on the Hub worlds, it felt very limited and claustrophobic. And some areas had loading screens in really bloody annoying places, like the Normandy, it shouldn't have any loading at all! It's not so bad if you install it to the hard drive, cuts it down from 30-40secs to 5-10 on the 360, but god, it gets annoying.
Oh and also on the armour front, bloody helmets, they are awesome when it comes to fighting, but I'm stuck either with the head shot one, or none at all, because otherwise you can't see Shepard's face during conversations, which is one of the major parts of the game. Other games generally pop the helmet off during cut-scenes.
The lack of weapons and armor, yes they had some, but 20 odd weapon and less armour bits just felt pointless, I didn't mind the upgrade functions, but honestly, there needed to be more guns so people with different play types could get the weapons they wanted. I'd kill for a 6 round clip, 30 round total, sniper rifle, the viper hits like my grandmother, and the others have bugger all ammo.
The second for me was the Citadel and other major hubs, after the first game where the Citadel was fairly large, and you could wander around and explore, there is nothing really to explore in Mass Effect 2 on the Hub worlds, it felt very limited and claustrophobic. And some areas had loading screens in really bloody annoying places, like the Normandy, it shouldn't have any loading at all! It's not so bad if you install it to the hard drive, cuts it down from 30-40secs to 5-10 on the 360, but god, it gets annoying.
Oh and also on the armour front, bloody helmets, they are awesome when it comes to fighting, but I'm stuck either with the head shot one, or none at all, because otherwise you can't see Shepard's face during conversations, which is one of the major parts of the game. Other games generally pop the helmet off during cut-scenes.
It is still a step back, since weapon mods made it possible to almost completely remove any over heat problems via the frictionless material mod, which once you got frictionless material X you could fire almost continually without consequence *sighs, good times, good times*Jaranja said:
Well the biggest flaw with it is that market/recource/equipment system sucked. When I say that I mean as a whole it lacked variety and was horrendously inconvenient. I'll elaborate
Equipment: There where only 2 types of each weapon in the whole game (3 in special cases, but those where all for your allies) and there where like, 2 sets of armor (not counting DLC)
Recources: Boring to mine and allocation was unbalanced. By the end of the game I wouldn't even mine for platinum because I had so much of the stuff that I could never use it. I was always out of indium and low on palladium, and I probably would've sacrificed my first born child for a few thousand units of element zero.
Currency: Credits really just bought the same stuff as resources. Everything was really fucking expensive at the beginning, but there's only like, 10 shops in the whole game, 5 of which don't sell anything worth buying. After you buy everything in the game (which is not hard) it feels unsatisfying. Buying probes and fuel was kind of unnecessary.
As for the other flaws
-the combat mechanics are still a bit iffy, mainly when dealing with turning around and taking cover. There where plenty of times when I accidentally got out of cover or tapped A an extra time thinking the game was being its usual unreliable self and registered that A tap as "sprint" or "interact" and jumped over the object I was taking cover behind, and turning around to get back behind it was not easy. Also, mass effect desperately needs a gears of war style dodge roll, or at very least a quick strafe movement, because there's no way to avoid bullets while moving unless you want to turn and initiate an all out sprint. Even then it's 50-50.
-Aside from replaying the game, there's not a lot to do after you beat it. It would have been nice to at least get an extra mission or two or some special events where some people where like "OMG HE KICKED THE COLLECTORS ASS!" At the very least they could have made it so that when you talk to your squadmates they don't say things like "we've got to stop the collectors" and acknowledge the fact that the suicide mission is over.
-There where very few sidequests that where actually interesting (I don't count the "gain trust" ones because those where kind of connected to the main story.)
-The Paragon/Renegade thing detracts from the overall immersion and isn't well implemented. The "renegade" options when talking to the illusive man basically amounted to trusting him unconditionally and acting like his *****, which compared to the other renegade options, is extremely out of character. Even though I wanted to be a dick throughout the whole game, it was hard for me to even choose the paragon options in those instances because I was scared my badass terminator glowing red eyes and facial scars and would go away, and I wanted the extra renegade points for the persuasion options. The term "Roleplaying Game" kind of offers the promise that the player can sort of play the game as themselves. Most people aren't shining beacons of goodness or heartless bastards, so it can be expected that they don't do all one or the other. That said, I would keep the renegade/paragon bars only as a means of reference, so that the player can see how many times they where a prick vs how many times they where a pansy. Once you offer advantages for playing all good/evil or penalties for being inconsistent, you lose a lot of value from the "roleplaying" aspect.
To be clear I still liked the game despite all its flaws. And I don't know why so many people are bitching about the thermal clip thing. I ran out of ammo like, twice throughout the whole game.
EDIT: Oh, and Male Shepard's voice actor (or possibly audio director) is shit. He has two tones of voice: official, and collected-angry. Which really stands out because the actual character has a lot of personality.
Equipment: There where only 2 types of each weapon in the whole game (3 in special cases, but those where all for your allies) and there where like, 2 sets of armor (not counting DLC)
Recources: Boring to mine and allocation was unbalanced. By the end of the game I wouldn't even mine for platinum because I had so much of the stuff that I could never use it. I was always out of indium and low on palladium, and I probably would've sacrificed my first born child for a few thousand units of element zero.
Currency: Credits really just bought the same stuff as resources. Everything was really fucking expensive at the beginning, but there's only like, 10 shops in the whole game, 5 of which don't sell anything worth buying. After you buy everything in the game (which is not hard) it feels unsatisfying. Buying probes and fuel was kind of unnecessary.
As for the other flaws
-the combat mechanics are still a bit iffy, mainly when dealing with turning around and taking cover. There where plenty of times when I accidentally got out of cover or tapped A an extra time thinking the game was being its usual unreliable self and registered that A tap as "sprint" or "interact" and jumped over the object I was taking cover behind, and turning around to get back behind it was not easy. Also, mass effect desperately needs a gears of war style dodge roll, or at very least a quick strafe movement, because there's no way to avoid bullets while moving unless you want to turn and initiate an all out sprint. Even then it's 50-50.
-Aside from replaying the game, there's not a lot to do after you beat it. It would have been nice to at least get an extra mission or two or some special events where some people where like "OMG HE KICKED THE COLLECTORS ASS!" At the very least they could have made it so that when you talk to your squadmates they don't say things like "we've got to stop the collectors" and acknowledge the fact that the suicide mission is over.
-There where very few sidequests that where actually interesting (I don't count the "gain trust" ones because those where kind of connected to the main story.)
-The Paragon/Renegade thing detracts from the overall immersion and isn't well implemented. The "renegade" options when talking to the illusive man basically amounted to trusting him unconditionally and acting like his *****, which compared to the other renegade options, is extremely out of character. Even though I wanted to be a dick throughout the whole game, it was hard for me to even choose the paragon options in those instances because I was scared my badass terminator glowing red eyes and facial scars and would go away, and I wanted the extra renegade points for the persuasion options. The term "Roleplaying Game" kind of offers the promise that the player can sort of play the game as themselves. Most people aren't shining beacons of goodness or heartless bastards, so it can be expected that they don't do all one or the other. That said, I would keep the renegade/paragon bars only as a means of reference, so that the player can see how many times they where a prick vs how many times they where a pansy. Once you offer advantages for playing all good/evil or penalties for being inconsistent, you lose a lot of value from the "roleplaying" aspect.
To be clear I still liked the game despite all its flaws. And I don't know why so many people are bitching about the thermal clip thing. I ran out of ammo like, twice throughout the whole game.
EDIT: Oh, and Male Shepard's voice actor (or possibly audio director) is shit. He has two tones of voice: official, and collected-angry. Which really stands out because the actual character has a lot of personality.
My biggest problems was that in a game that claims to be an rpg there really is not much to improve or lay points in. in the first game i get all these weapons with mods and a huge talent tree wich to improve and choose, personalising your shepard. but the second seems really shallow in comparison. as a soldier i took the bomb from zaeend or what his name is, as a additional talent then i maxed the incendiary rounds and that improvement talent wich gave more renegade points. i ended up not using any of my skills exept for incendiary rounds cause that was the only toggle skill. encounters was hiding behind cover popping up fire a few shots then in to cover again and recharge. i do not want this sort of combat in the first i had immunity so i rushed forth and punched geth and stuff, it felt funnier and every encounter i planned on with powers and squadmates. in the second i could solo everything just hiding behind cover. this is mainly due to the recharging healt. in the first one your health did not regenerate and you had to use medi gel to heal wich you could only carry five at a time. come to think of it the combat in me1 when i played was alot faster than me2. i did just dont feel like there was any real rpg feeling in me2.
I don't have too many problems with the game though I do agree with a lot of points on this topic:
Thermal Clips: That does feel like a big step backward for me, I used to love using the Sniper Rifle's in the first game, to the point where you fire one round, and you get the overheating sound straight away and for ages, even though it obliterates the target anyway, loved that, my Shotgun was like that too. I prefer that system
Story: Seems lacking in substance, it was good but seemed more like an episodic side mission than a main quest. Plus you spend a large amount of time recruiting and satisfying your team, and when you do finally get everyone, there's not a lot left to do really.
Weapons: Sure, there werent really many in the first game, but you did have upgrades for them, I liked that, for this one you can do research to improve the damage done and things like that, but you can't customize the add-ons unless your class gets Disrupter, Cryo or Incendiary rounds, even then that's pitiful.
Choices from the first game: I was expecting some bigger consequences to this game than what did actually happen, it seems aswell that no matter what you do with the council in the first game, the difference in results is a slight change of dialogue between Shepard and Anderson, and you don't actually ever speak to whatever council members are there anymore. I'm hoping that some of those first game choices hit home in the 3rd game, otherwise what is the point in importing characters?
Despite this, I do really like the game, and think it is a lot of fun, i've been taking my time with the first playthrough, and now i'm on the second, but i'm enjoying it nonetheless, I just hope that they do make up for the piss-poor DLC from the first game, Zaeed was quite cool and the crash site was interesting, for free DLC they were good anyway, looking forward to the game being expanded significantly.
Thermal Clips: That does feel like a big step backward for me, I used to love using the Sniper Rifle's in the first game, to the point where you fire one round, and you get the overheating sound straight away and for ages, even though it obliterates the target anyway, loved that, my Shotgun was like that too. I prefer that system
Story: Seems lacking in substance, it was good but seemed more like an episodic side mission than a main quest. Plus you spend a large amount of time recruiting and satisfying your team, and when you do finally get everyone, there's not a lot left to do really.
Weapons: Sure, there werent really many in the first game, but you did have upgrades for them, I liked that, for this one you can do research to improve the damage done and things like that, but you can't customize the add-ons unless your class gets Disrupter, Cryo or Incendiary rounds, even then that's pitiful.
Choices from the first game: I was expecting some bigger consequences to this game than what did actually happen, it seems aswell that no matter what you do with the council in the first game, the difference in results is a slight change of dialogue between Shepard and Anderson, and you don't actually ever speak to whatever council members are there anymore. I'm hoping that some of those first game choices hit home in the 3rd game, otherwise what is the point in importing characters?
Despite this, I do really like the game, and think it is a lot of fun, i've been taking my time with the first playthrough, and now i'm on the second, but i'm enjoying it nonetheless, I just hope that they do make up for the piss-poor DLC from the first game, Zaeed was quite cool and the crash site was interesting, for free DLC they were good anyway, looking forward to the game being expanded significantly.
Some of you are (ok, most of you ) seem to have issues with the more technical aspects of the game ie. looting, weapons systems, and so on. I didn't mind any of that. In fact, it was far preferable and far more manageable than the over system in ME1.
However, the game, while amazing, is not perfect. The majority of the game is spent recruiting members of the team. Now don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed the recruiting missions, but the problem was, this took up the bulk of the game. The recruiting itself is not really part of the core storyline. If you strip away the recruiting and the loyalty missions, you have once hell of a reduced game. What am I getting at? This: the game needs more main-quest plot mission. If memory serves, the only missions you have to complete outside of recruitment are: the prologue, Sherphard's awakening, Freedom's Progress, Horizon, the IFF mission, the suicide mission. Not a whole lot when you strip it down like that.
On the other hand, with ME1, you had to do Eden Prime, the Citadel, Therum, Feros, Novaria, Virmire, Ilos and the final Citadel mission - they don't look like much on paper here, but actually those missions generally took longer, and you had to do them as part of the core quest.
I may be contradicting myself a little here: I love that we have the choice of recruiting who and how many, but realistically, won't everyone just recruit everyone? Why would you leave someone out? This is great as character development and interaction, but I couldn't help feel a little jipped in the overall story progression of the game in terms of the main quest.
Another complaint: there was no "big decision" moment when you have to make a decision there is no coming back from. In ME1 of course, you had to choose between sacrificing Kaiden or Ashley, in ME2, there was no such dilemma. I think they missed out with this. The biggest decision in the game ultimately was whether or not to destroy the Collector base, but even this felt somewhat lacking compared to choosing between saving the Council or letting humanity take over. I think what ME1 so great for me was it was all about the hard choices - I didn't find myself having to make any really tough decisions in ME2 - the one I wrestled with most was whether or not to hack the Geth (I did) and also who to take sides with between Miranda and Jack (I chose Jack), but even here I was able to get Miranda's loyalty back.
Of course, these are minor quibbles about an otherwise great game: excellent characters, much-improved class system (like, MUCH better), great locations, much better inventory and battle system, the only thing lacking for me was the storyline. I needed more surprising punch-in-the-stomach moments - something genuinely shocking that changes how you look at things. The closest ME2 comes to this was revealing the Collectors used to be the Protheans - but that's it. I needed...more. I spent half the game convinced the Illusive Man (notice ILLUSIVE, not ELUSIVE) was actually not a man at all, but some kind of Geth program plotting to totally screw over humanity (which would have been freaking mind-blowing and worthy of the "Empire Strikes Back" tag that's been attached to the game)...but no, he apparently really is just a man.
Another minor quibble: I miss the Citadel, and strangely enough, the Council. Sure, running with Cerberus was cool for a while, but I hope Shephard returns to being first and foremost a Spectre in ME3.
Last but maybe not least: the squad. Okay, it was very diverse and I love that, but as I already pointed out, maybe too much too was spent recruiting for the mission rather than actually doing the mission. I think next time, you need only have a maximum of 8 squad members, excluding Shephard. And Tali and Legion are great, but why do they come into it so late? It would have been very helpful to have tech experts earlier. Thank you for bringing back Garrus and Tali - good move.
Finally, keep the Mako dead, but bring back elevators. I miss the humour.
However, the game, while amazing, is not perfect. The majority of the game is spent recruiting members of the team. Now don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed the recruiting missions, but the problem was, this took up the bulk of the game. The recruiting itself is not really part of the core storyline. If you strip away the recruiting and the loyalty missions, you have once hell of a reduced game. What am I getting at? This: the game needs more main-quest plot mission. If memory serves, the only missions you have to complete outside of recruitment are: the prologue, Sherphard's awakening, Freedom's Progress, Horizon, the IFF mission, the suicide mission. Not a whole lot when you strip it down like that.
On the other hand, with ME1, you had to do Eden Prime, the Citadel, Therum, Feros, Novaria, Virmire, Ilos and the final Citadel mission - they don't look like much on paper here, but actually those missions generally took longer, and you had to do them as part of the core quest.
I may be contradicting myself a little here: I love that we have the choice of recruiting who and how many, but realistically, won't everyone just recruit everyone? Why would you leave someone out? This is great as character development and interaction, but I couldn't help feel a little jipped in the overall story progression of the game in terms of the main quest.
Another complaint: there was no "big decision" moment when you have to make a decision there is no coming back from. In ME1 of course, you had to choose between sacrificing Kaiden or Ashley, in ME2, there was no such dilemma. I think they missed out with this. The biggest decision in the game ultimately was whether or not to destroy the Collector base, but even this felt somewhat lacking compared to choosing between saving the Council or letting humanity take over. I think what ME1 so great for me was it was all about the hard choices - I didn't find myself having to make any really tough decisions in ME2 - the one I wrestled with most was whether or not to hack the Geth (I did) and also who to take sides with between Miranda and Jack (I chose Jack), but even here I was able to get Miranda's loyalty back.
Of course, these are minor quibbles about an otherwise great game: excellent characters, much-improved class system (like, MUCH better), great locations, much better inventory and battle system, the only thing lacking for me was the storyline. I needed more surprising punch-in-the-stomach moments - something genuinely shocking that changes how you look at things. The closest ME2 comes to this was revealing the Collectors used to be the Protheans - but that's it. I needed...more. I spent half the game convinced the Illusive Man (notice ILLUSIVE, not ELUSIVE) was actually not a man at all, but some kind of Geth program plotting to totally screw over humanity (which would have been freaking mind-blowing and worthy of the "Empire Strikes Back" tag that's been attached to the game)...but no, he apparently really is just a man.
Another minor quibble: I miss the Citadel, and strangely enough, the Council. Sure, running with Cerberus was cool for a while, but I hope Shephard returns to being first and foremost a Spectre in ME3.
Last but maybe not least: the squad. Okay, it was very diverse and I love that, but as I already pointed out, maybe too much too was spent recruiting for the mission rather than actually doing the mission. I think next time, you need only have a maximum of 8 squad members, excluding Shephard. And Tali and Legion are great, but why do they come into it so late? It would have been very helpful to have tech experts earlier. Thank you for bringing back Garrus and Tali - good move.
Finally, keep the Mako dead, but bring back elevators. I miss the humour.
The only thing ME2 did wrong was the planet scanning. It's tedious and takes to long and having to continually jump back and forth to get more probes is... bad. That said it still wins over the Mako since both are just as tedious but you get less loading time with the scanning.
I didn't think the enemy re-spawned. As far as I can tell there is a certain number that come out and some will join in after the encounter starts but if you stay in a room forever you're not going to have unlimited enemies coming after you. At least that's my experience...
The recharge for powers as far as I can tell is much faster in ME2. I don't mind the regenerating health. I never ran out of medi-gel or got in trouble because the skill wasn't recharging fast enough in the first one. This way you have to wait for yourself to heal and avoid fire for a certain period of time which in my opinion is harder than using an instant full recovery.
I think the multiple NPCs are much more useful in this one since there's not as much overlap in skills. In the first one I used two characters throughout the whole thing. This time it's fun experimenting with what the different characters can do. Also major improvement in the party control. In the first one I can't remember a single time using garrus that he didn't just stand in front of enemy fire and die.
But yeah the planet scanning is going to completely ruin replays for this. I just don't think I can go through it again...
I didn't think the enemy re-spawned. As far as I can tell there is a certain number that come out and some will join in after the encounter starts but if you stay in a room forever you're not going to have unlimited enemies coming after you. At least that's my experience...
The recharge for powers as far as I can tell is much faster in ME2. I don't mind the regenerating health. I never ran out of medi-gel or got in trouble because the skill wasn't recharging fast enough in the first one. This way you have to wait for yourself to heal and avoid fire for a certain period of time which in my opinion is harder than using an instant full recovery.
I think the multiple NPCs are much more useful in this one since there's not as much overlap in skills. In the first one I used two characters throughout the whole thing. This time it's fun experimenting with what the different characters can do. Also major improvement in the party control. In the first one I can't remember a single time using garrus that he didn't just stand in front of enemy fire and die.
But yeah the planet scanning is going to completely ruin replays for this. I just don't think I can go through it again...