This "cod hate" is getting out of hand.

blackdwarf

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the main problem is that cod is already the same for 5 years, and i haven't seen anything that says otherwise on mw3.
 

Zarkov

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Atmos Duality said:
Kahunaburger said:
Except Halo actually is fun and has good gameplay. And jetpacks.
I disagree.
I find the Halo franchise to be no less overhyped, mediocre and formulaic than the current Call of Duty franchise.

Then again, given how many gameplay elements Call of Duty copied from Halo, that isn't really all that surprising.
Well, with the release of Halo 4, 5 and 6 and with the Bungie team abandoning the project it's clear that the rest of the Halo games will be obvious cash grabs just to play on the overwhelming fanboyism that the franchise has generated throughout the years.

To say the least, it will be interesting to find out what happens.
 

Magicman10893

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My reasons in list form:

1) It's published by Activision, the greediest of the greedy.

2) Releasing the same product EACH YEAR causes the quality to diminish due to not having the proper time to create a product with innovation. While you said that other games are "reskinnings of the predecessor," they still add story development, increases in technology, additional weapons/items, and new features. When you release a new CoD each year, there isn't much time to properly implement new features, guns, story or technological advances, especially when Infinity Ward creates a game then leave it to Treyarch to just re-skin it.

3) Idiots keep buying it each year because they had fun with the previous one and want to keep playing it. When the game is new, that means a new surge of people playing online. For comparison, my friends play NBA Live all the time, but since they haven't released a new one in two years, there aren't many people playing online anymore. At this point, they recognize nearly every gamertag in the games they play. It is seriously to the point where they can say that they've played nearly everyone that is still playing the game and remember their tactics and behaviors from their previous games. On the other hand, I wouldn't be able to recognize anyone that we've played in Halo Reach because thousands still play it.

4) The developers know that people will buy the game regardless and that gives them little motivation to do anything new or maintain any sort of quality. They know that they don't have to work hard to create an amazing game because people will buy it anyway. It's like the criticism for Star Wars games. They may be pretty shitty in recent years, but people love Star Wars and that means they'll buy anything with Star Wars slapped on the label.

5) Because CoD is popular, that means that it draws in all kinds of people. You know how we hate Pop Cap Games or Zynga for the creation of "casual gamers?" People that aren't gamers in the slightest but call themselves gamers because they play Farmville or something? CoD does the same thing. In my high school, even the jocks and popular kids thought the game was cool and played the shit out of it. That drags the overall community down to barbaric levels.

6) Again, because CoD is popular that means that sales go to it instead of games that deserve it. CoD takes over the market share for online shooters. Between CoD, Gears of War, Halo, Battlefield, Killzone and Uncharted, there is hardly any room for new online shooters to make a foothold. Between that and their massive sales, many shooters end up being CoD clones in order to try to make some of that sweet money. It just dilutes the gaming industry.
 

Krion_Vark

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AND ITS TIME FOR A BREAK DOWN!

MacJack said:
Seriously i can browse the internet without seeing so many people spam about it everyhwere even in non cod related videos/articles and if you say something negative about the game they are like "go play cod" like its some knida insult when in reallity its one of the most sucessfull franchises thus a very good geame. I guess its the same as halo back then when it was bashed.

But what pisses me off is how BIASED those haters are

They say that MW3 looks rehashed and same as last year.
MW3 will most likely be rehashed of what it was last year. They change things slightly every year slowly making the games better but in all still putting out shit that should only be relegated as an expansion.


Well, in E3 i saw uncharted 3,assasin's creed revelations and spiderman edge of time. If no one told me i would say i was looking at their predessecors, yet only cod is bashed.
Can't say anything for Uncharted 3 but as way of AC Revelations and the releases that they have been putting out. SOLID single player campaign and by solid I mean over the usual 8 hours of single player game time. Along with all the side missions.

Spiderman Edge of Time. When was the last Spiderman game released? 2010? But wait wasn't THAT GAME BASHED? I am pretty sure it was.
In retrospective, killzone 3 and dead space 2 and fallout new vegas were exactly like their predecessors but did the fans complain? Nope.
Once again cannot say anything for Killzone 3 but DS2 and FO:NV BOTH HAD SOLID single player stories.



Infact if you go take a look in game that tried to change, you will see they piss of the fans and failed like prince of persia in 2008, fans were pissed so they made a warrior within clone after that.
The so called WW clone wasn't a clone at all. It tried something new and was a huge departure from what it was when it was popular.


Hell if you take a look a the past you will see many similat situations, eg doom 1 and 2 were practicly the same with one new weapon and a bunch of monsters, when they made doom 3, everyone was pissed it changed. Same thing with blood 2 or the tomb raider series, all tomb raider games till angel of darkness were the same, after that they change the game and took their chances and the fans hated id and went back to the last 5 "Recycled" tomb raider games.

Hell even stalker series are recycled, suprisingly people only bash cod about it like all those examples i pointed out do not exist.

Another thing will be is that they say there are too many cod games and it has gone stale over the year wih no changes whhile praising bf3 which comes from a franchise who is doing the same formula for farrr longer with very few additions. Eg: BF3 is basicly bf2 with better grpaphics and destruction(since they bringing back the airplanes)
Wait did you just reference some of the EARLIEST games as being stale because they rehashed stuff? You know that rehashing and reskining is supposed to save money and time something at the time of Doom and Doom 2 was probably a god send considering how much coding and how big the teams actually were.

Imo this cod hate is getting out of hand and its way too biased.
And then there is this and I will say why I don't like the CoD games. The single player campaigns SUCK. Less than 8 hours for every single one of them. Playing through on harder difficulties for achievements is not replay value. BlOps story hinged on a single plat twist that once known about lost all replay value to the game. The Multiplayer is just pretty much new map packs that Activision sells for 15 dollars as is but is somehow able to get away with charging 60 for it.

My opinion biased? Most likely.
Do I have hope that CoD will become a good franchise worthy of a yearly release? Yes.
Do I think people overreact when they hear people trash their favorite game? Fuck yeah why the hell else would this thread exist.
 

Frostbite3789

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Chibz said:
Jegsimmons said:
you mean...like the post you just made criticizing his?
Great, and now YOUR post contributes nothing to the conversation EITHER! I HAVE TO BREAK THIS CYCLE OF NON-CONTRIBUTION!

pwnzerstick said:
I don't hate COD, but I've stopped giving a shit about it.
Have to say, you're joining a large group of my friends. I know almost nobody who is buying the next CoD game. Or any CoD game ever again. Horray!

Bobby Kotick, you're going to do to CoD what you did to Guitar Hero. Aren't you?
That is their entire business plan. They are like the aliens from Independence, who go from planet to planet, using all the resources then moving on.

It's generally bad thing when your business plan matches the evil machinations of villains from a summer blockbuster.
 

Draco Kaiser

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MacJack said:
AVATAR_RAGE said:
Actually games like Dead Space, Killzone, etc made adjustments to the gameplay for the sequels. The COD games do very little in that department, repeating the same run, shoot, run, uncontrollable set piece, level end pattern.

Hell I used to be a COD fan but some things just get boring.

Take Assassins Creed for example, at it's core the gameplay is pretty much the same but as the series progresses improvements have been made. The core of the series is the same but its extremities keep expanding.

Now everything COD has could do has been done in a previous game and the multiplayer is running dry. Yet the fans of the series will still play it until the next game in the series dies out.
Am sorry i dont see it. People said the same about uncharted 2, that is a huge improvment on the first, well it wanst, itw as pretty much the same and thats why i liked it. Being a big fan of dead space, i fail to see what the big improvement in the second, its the same game with new weapons and a jetpack instead of reversed gravity and the hacking puzzles. Assasin's creed brotherhood is EXACTLY like ac2 but with the brotherhood feature and you can buy more stuff...oh and cannons. The revelations trailer showed that its he same thing, same gameplay same graphics same cannons.

Suprisingly all those games have the same graphics.

I dont really see how cod is any less or how thse games are bigger improvements.

MW2 added killstreaks and revolutionized the way mp fps are nowdays, hell even crysis 2 copied that feature. Black ops made the game more balanced and killed quickscoping and added a new buying system. Those things really mean alot in mp considering i liked one of them and disliked the other one. So i wouldnt say its "the same game"
EonEire said:
Just like Halo, I hate the Players not the Game. Both CoD and Halo are shining examples of how bad Online Multiplayer can be and it just sours any enjoyment you can have from a game when you have to put up with some of the most obnoxious people on the planet just to play a multiplayer match. "Mute them then" is usually the first port of call for a complaint like that to which the only response is, why don't those idiots grow up and act respectfully towards others instead of throwing around sexist / racist / homophobic comments for absolutely no reason.
I agree and apart from that i remember in the past halo was bashed just as bad as cod. i guess people hate what is very popular and sucessfull if they dont like it, simply because it doesnt reach the hype it gets by all those other people who like it.
MW2 was probably the worse multiplayer CoD there's every been. It did not revolutionize anything. Everything was imbalanced, killstreaks were over the top terrible. You could use killstreaks, to get killstreaks? Kind of bs is that.
 

Atmos Duality

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Zarkov said:
Well, with the release of Halo 4, 5 and 6 and with the Bungie team abandoning the project it's clear that the rest of the Halo games will be obvious cash grabs just to play on the overwhelming fanboyism that the franchise has generated throughout the years.

To say the least, it will be interesting to find out what happens.
Sometimes I wonder if Bungie ever regretted doing the Halo series (past Halo 1).
Perhaps it's just me, but I would go mad if forced to work on the same bloody game series for a solid decade.


Magicman10893 said:
My reasons in list form:

*snip*
Commentary (point by point):

1) I'd say the other major publishers are just as greedy, but in less of a position to assert their desires since they have to compete.

2) Actually, there is a law in economics that relates the value of a product (from the consumer's perspective) to number of similar/same products that person owns. It's the law of diminishing returns. Normally, people eventually become bored with doing the same thing over and over, and this holds true for products. Knowing this, the game with the widest POTENTIAL audience will always make the most money in the short term, but when its market crashes, it will crash HARD.
If you need an example, look at the Guitar Hero/Rhythm action genre. It crashed and burned completely in the last two years.

3) Without some form of conditioning, this formula of repeat customers only works so many times. With a conditioning factor in your game, you can extend the number of times someone is willing to pay for the same thing.
World of Warcraft exploits this sort of in-game conditioning and has turned megaprofits for nearly 7 years as a result, despite how little the game has actually evolved.

4) Yup. You describe the result (Market stagnation) as related to "subjective standard setting", aka "personal expectations". Now it's assumed that certain features will be in every shooter, regardless of whether they fit there or not (regenerating health, linear levels) because the audience expects them based on their tastes.
When you set these non-objective required standards, you eliminate any new alternatives from the development process.

5) People are assholes when there's no consequence or enforcement of punishment. Having a larger group of assholes doesn't really change that except that the weakest form of community-control (reputation) disappears if there are more assholes to hide amongst.

6) Goes back to the point of 4). Market stagnation occurs if something is too popular. Prior to Call of Duty 4.x, the Halo franchise was responsible for stagnating the market and killing off innovation with its allure of instant-profits (just copy the Halo formula and you will make money).
 

TheHitcher

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MacJack said:
in reallity its one of the most sucessfull franchises thus a very good geame.
So, in your opinion, successful=good?
I'd have to disagree. Justin Bieber is successful, but that doesn't make him a good "artist". It's the same with CoD, really. The fans are definitely more vocal than the "haters". Quite frankly, I think we're all just a bit sick of hearing about it.


MacJack said:
They say that MW3 looks rehashed and same as last year.
That's because it IS rehashed. It's still using the IW engine. The same engine used four years ago to make Call of Duty 4, with only minor improvements made. Alongside the colossus that is Battlefield 3 (and quite frankly, many other upcoming games) it looks terrible. Activision also have a record for charging an extra 20% for any CoD game they sell. Why should we pay more for more of the same thing?

MacJack said:
Well, in E3 i saw uncharted 3,assasin's creed revelations and spiderman edge of time. If no one told me i would say i was looking at their predessecors, yet only cod is bashed.
Those have all been appropriately criticised actually. But how do you criticise something that's more of the same thing without saying it's more of the same thing? It's not like the world is just mindlessly hating CoD, most criticisms of the franchise are appropriate. The difference is with games like Assassin's Creed, story elements are expanded upon, features are added and gameplay is improved. CoD adds nothing. Same engine, same gameplay, similar story (the only highlights of it being how much more ridiculous and unrealistic it gets) and no additional features. All you get is Campain, Multiplayer and Zombies/Spec Ops depending on whether Treyarch or Infinity Ward are grabbing your money.
 

Magicman10893

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Atmos Duality said:
1) I'd say the other major publishers are just as greedy, but in less of a position to assert their desires since they have to compete.

2) Actually, there is a law in economics that relates the value of a product (from the consumer's perspective) to number of similar/same products that person owns. It's the law of diminishing returns. Normally, people eventually become bored with doing the same thing over and over, and this holds true for products. Knowing this, the game with the widest POTENTIAL audience will always make the most money in the short term, but when its market crashes, it will crash HARD.
If you need an example, look at the Guitar Hero/Rhythm action genre. It crashed and burned completely in the last two years.

3) Without some form of conditioning, this formula of repeat customers only works so many times. With a conditioning factor in your game, you can extend the number of times someone is willing to pay for the same thing.
World of Warcraft exploits this sort of in-game conditioning and has turned megaprofits for nearly 7 years as a result, despite how little the game has actually evolved.

4) Yup. You describe the result (Market stagnation) as related to "subjective standard setting", aka "personal expectations". Now it's assumed that certain features will be in every shooter, regardless of whether they fit there or not (regenerating health, linear levels) because the audience expects them based on their tastes.
When you set these non-objective required standards, you eliminate any new alternatives from the development process.

5) People are assholes when there's no consequence or enforcement of punishment. Having a larger group of assholes doesn't really change that except that the weakest form of community-control (reputation) disappears if there are more assholes to hide amongst.

6) Goes back to the point of 4). Market stagnation occurs if something is too popular. Prior to Call of Duty 4.x, the Halo franchise was responsible for stagnating the market and killing off innovation with its allure of instant-profits (just copy the Halo formula and you will make money).
1) While the other major publishers are just as greedy, they have to compete, which means they have to make some sort of improvement in order to draw in an audience. Activision is so big they could slack off for a year after MW3 and still be able to stay afloat.

2) The Guitar Hero example is exactly why I made the point of calling out Activision. They already turned an exploding genre into a rotting corpse covered in bruises from all the beatings. They just ruin the market when they release the game annually like this. When they keep releasing the same product, we get bored because of the lack of innovation, and then it crashes and burns. I don't want to see that happen Call of Duty because despite what was said, I still enjoy it to a certain degree. That's what scares me. I loved Call of Duty 4 more than any other shooter of the time, but now I don't give a rats ass about Call of Duty and most likely won't be getting MW3 because of it, and that disappoints me. Even my friends that are massive sports fans and have bought Madden every year for the last 6 years are considering not getting Madden 12 because even they are seeing how shitty it is becoming.

3) I think the conditioning comes from the promise of a "new" game that gets people to buy each years release. That is like how Madden is still going strong because each year the roster is updated to include the new players and adjust the stats of existing players.

4) We agree on this one, I have nothing to say.

5) The more assholes means that there are more chances to run into them.

6) It seems we agree on this one. I remember the massive hate for Halo, now the majority of that hate is going towards Call of Duty now.
 

Taham

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I'll be honest; I don't like CoD. It's definately (not sure how to spell that) a good series, though it has it's ups and downs. The thing I don't like, however, is the pretentious twits that assume they know everything about weapons, tactics, and other military doctrine.
 

Nikolaz72

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MacJack said:
Seriously i can browse the internet without seeing so many people spam about it everyhwere even in non cod related videos/articles and if you say something negative about the game they are like "go play cod" like its some knida insult when in reallity its one of the most sucessfull franchises thus a very good geame. I guess its the same as halo back then when it was bashed.

But what pisses me off is how BIASED those haters are

They say that MW3 looks rehashed and same as last year.

Well, in E3 i saw uncharted 3,assasin's creed revelations and spiderman edge of time. If no one told me i would say i was looking at their predessecors, yet only cod is bashed.

In retrospective, killzone 3 and dead space 2 and fallout new vegas were exactly like their predecessors but did the fans complain? Nope.

Infact if you go take a look in game that tried to change, you will see they piss of the fans and failed like prince of persia in 2008, fans were pissed so they made a warrior within clone after that.

Hell if you take a look a the past you will see many similat situations, eg doom 1 and 2 were practicly the same with one new weapon and a bunch of monsters, when they made doom 3, everyone was pissed it changed. Same thing with blood 2 or the tomb raider series, all tomb raider games till angel of darkness were the same, after that they change the game and took their chances and the fans hated id and went back to the last 5 "Recycled" tomb raider games.

Hell even stalker series are recycled, suprisingly people only bash cod about it like all those examples i pointed out do not exist.

Another thing will be is that they say there are too many cod games and it has gone stale over the year wih no changes whhile praising bf3 which comes from a franchise who is doing the same formula for farrr longer with very few additions. Eg: BF3 is basicly bf2 with better grpaphics and destruction(since they bringing back the airplanes)

Imo this cod hate is getting out of hand and its way too biased.
Assasins Creed, Killzone (Probably), Spiderman (Probably) Is singleplayer. Most, if not all of them. A continue of the story from the older games.

Call of Duty. Mainly Multiplayer, little singleplayer. Multiplayer has nothing new.

Assasins Creed. More of the same, but its more story. Its not the same story over again. Its adding to the other story. Same gameplay. But more story.

Call of Duty Multiplayer. Same gameplay. No story to save it.
 

Sovvolf

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stewox said:
we're talking about modern warfare, the crappy lame ass mindless spray shootings for noobs and dicks, with noob tubes and IWnet, not balanced for lean and host migration please wait 20 seconds, this is WHAT "CALL OF DUTY" is being reffered to
Reply
Well thank you, I do love being called a noob and a dick for finding genuine enjoyment in a few video games. You know, you can have your opinion of a video game... Think its shite or think its brill then that's up to you but please don't start insulting the people that do enjoy it.

on topic
As for the hate. Well, I guess that's entirely subjective. I can understand the hate and I have my own gripes with the video game series. Specially some of the perks that I honestly hate and I think break the game.

However I enjoy it. Regardless of what anyone will tell me here, booting it up at my cousins house, both playing online multiplayer on split-screen (yeah I love that edition... makes it that extra bit more fun)with a few drinks is a good amount of fun for me. Yeah, I can agree with a good amount of the criticism, though I don't know I find it enjoyable.
 

mitchell271

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You know what a bias is right? AN OPINION
The reason CoD gets bashed is because they don't really change anything at all and it comes out every year AND it's the biggest franchise in any form of entertainment right now. It squashes the smaller games that have great ideas, the success of CoD 4 influenced people to make modern shooters with iron-sight aiming and "realistic" gameplay until the market is so flooded with the same idea that people think that these games are the only way to make money!

*huff huff*

With the other sequels you mentioned, they (mostly) took their time with development and added new mechanics and fixed things that didn't work. CoD is the same game every year.
 
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Uncharted 3 is the 3rd game(obviously) in a series that has been steadily improving.

MW3 is the 8th(?)very similiar CoD game to come out, and that's not including expansions and whatever there was on PS2.

I'm not sure I care to have a strong opinion about any of this nonsense, but you see how it isn't the same, right?
 

Mikeyfell

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MacJack said:
Seriously i can browse the internet without seeing so many people spam about it everyhwere even in non cod related videos/articles and if you say something negative about the game they are like "go play cod" like its some knida insult when in reallity its one of the most sucessfull franchises thus a very good geame. I guess its the same as halo back then when it was bashed.

But what pisses me off is how BIASED those haters are

They say that MW3 looks rehashed and same as last year.

Well, in E3 i saw uncharted 3,assasin's creed revelations and spiderman edge of time. If no one told me i would say i was looking at their predessecors, yet only cod is bashed.




Another thing will be is that they say there are too many cod games and it has gone stale over the year wih no changes whhile praising bf3 which comes from a franchise who is doing the same formula for farrr longer with very few additions. Eg: BF3 is basicly bf2 with better grpaphics and destruction(since they bringing back the airplanes)

Imo this cod hate is getting out of hand and its way too biased.

Regardless of anyone's particular feelings towards or against Call of Duty as a game the bolded statements are why we hate CoD players


when in reallity its one of the most sucessfull franchises thus a very good geame.
Success doesn't mean the thing in question is any good. (Success doesn't mean it's bad) Success and popularity have absolutely no impact on quality. CoD fans try to use it's sales figures as some sort of a shield to defend it from legitimate criticisms about it's gameplay and narrative.

how BIASED those haters are
If you really knew what biased meant you wouldn't use it in this context.
Playing CoD and deciding you like it has the exact same amount of bias as playing CoD and deciding it's shit. Which is none.

They say that MW3 looks rehashed and same as last year.
It is. Denial is the only reason to deny that. CoD hasn't looked felt or played any different since it got it's "Modern Warfare" facelift. and even so it still plays the exactly the same as the first 3. Actually it plays worse now because you weren't on fucking rails for the first 2 CoD games. (But that's just my opinion)

way too biased
The only way these people could have a biased opinion of CoD is if they have never played any of the games and it that's true about them why are you listening to them?


As for the rest of the stuff in your post.

Copy pasta sells. (The CoD franchise proved that beyond a reasonable doubt) Is it wrong for other developers to try to ride the "Lets just keep releasing the same game over and over again" business model that (let's be honest) Nintendo invented all those years ago. Well yes of course it is. If the industry stagnates it's going to die or at least crash, and it's already begone. Were there even any new IP's at E3 this year?

It's silly to blame all that on CoD but Activision definitely made the problem worse by proving that you can add absolutely nothing to a game, call it a sequel and break all the day one sales records currently held any form of media.
 

Aeshi

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It's cool to bash and that's really the only reason anything is hated on the Escapist.

If it's cool to bash then everyone involved with it is an Antichrist waiting to happen and they all deserve to die. And if you try to point out that whatever it is that they're bashing it for has been done before/a lot worse by a company that isn't being bashed for it or even just refuse to parrot facts that could be proven false with even a few seconds of research you're an stupid mainstream sheep.
 

stewox

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The hate for cod is simple, MW2 is a dumbed down console game for kids and 15 old noobs, my brother 3yrs younger , he actually liked it, while i hated it.

But that is simply how much you grown up, some guys 20yrs and still loving what you loved at 15yr, come on, time to move on basement kreeps, MW2 is a crap game overall.

It's selling because of the name, brand, simple as that. It's mainstream, it's for western population, they love controversy, i didn't liked the "no russian" level, not at all. It's sick.

When you don't have quality, you seek desperate measures to make up for that.

My mind's not going to change with MW3... until i see it fully.