This is What Happens When a Videogame Leaks

Nick Calandra

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Which is yet another problem that should be addressed.
That just tells me you know very little about game development. Making games is a process, it's not just here's our plan and lets execute it.
 

CriticalGaming

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If a leak happens and it's pure excitement from fans, that's just pure luck for the devs. It's not usually the end of the world, but man, I'd be super sad and angry if one of the documentaries we were working on was leaked and shown before I was ready to publish it, ya know?
Speaking of which, I found that weird page that has a full documentary on Senren Kagura games, were you ever going to release that or..... :).

Just kidding.
 

Nick Calandra

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Speaking of which, I found that weird page that has a full documentary on Senren Kagura games, were you ever going to release that or..... :).

Just kidding.
Ha, we've got our next project lined up and it's not that. Only two of us work on these things, so unless I leak it, it's not getting leaked haha.
 

SilentPony

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All this reads to me as is IGN complaining they won't be getting clicks on "Details of the Last of Us 2 Gameplay" and "Spoiler/spoiler-free review" articles. These people don't care about the marketing of a game, or the developers, or even the poor bastards that actually work 26 hour days to render Ellie's left buttcheck's pimple in a way that makes Naughty Dog's legal team can say is non-actionable and legally distinct from Ellen Page's pimple.(which okay I totally thought they had used Ellen Page as the model for Ellie this entire time. Nope turns out its a massive coincidence, except Page still thinks they ripped her off)

They care about clicks, ie ad revenue from banners. And the only way to get that is sensational headlines or insider information, and when the game leaks months in advance, guess what people don't need to read anymore?
 
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CriticalGaming

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Ha, we've got our next project lined up and it's not that. Only two of us work on these things, so unless I leak it, it's not getting leaked haha.
Speaking of which, aren't teaser trailers basically "official" leaks? I mean that's what a preview is right? Or a press event to preview a game, you are basically leaking the game to a set of people only for them to go on and leak the game to more people. I know those are through official means and much more controlled than blanket leaks.

But i do have a question for you.

How should the devs feel about leaks that are their own feaking fault. For example FF7's demo that leaked with WAY WAY more shit in the files than it should have had. And then be upset when you give out the files to people only to see all the extra shit datamined.

I know the context is that the demo leaked way earlier than they intended, but if they had made the demo properly then the leaks wouldn't have happened and the worst thing would have been people playing the E3 demo sooner than expected which isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.
 

Nick Calandra

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Speaking of which, aren't teaser trailers basically "official" leaks? I mean that's what a preview is right? Or a press event to preview a game, you are basically leaking the game to a set of people only for them to go on and leak the game to more people. I know those are through official means and much more controlled than blanket leaks.

But i do have a question for you.

How should the devs feel about leaks that are their own feaking fault. For example FF7's demo that leaked with WAY WAY more shit in the files than it should have had. And then be upset when you give out the files to people only to see all the extra shit datamined.

I know the context is that the demo leaked way earlier than they intended, but if they had made the demo properly then the leaks wouldn't have happened and the worst thing would have been people playing the E3 demo sooner than expected which isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.
Teaser trailers are planned releases. So no, not a leak, it's something that they put out there when they're ready.

Leaks made by a mistake on the publisher / dev side, nothing you can really do about that. That's a whoopsie, but even then, those assets are kinda prepared and ready, it's not completely by surprise. Same with datamines and all that.

So those may be "early", but it's not like having The Last of Us 2 completely leaked online, or Kotaku leaking the entire script of Fallout 4, or every setting of the next Assassin's Creed game, etc.
 

happyninja42

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How should the devs feel about leaks that are their own feaking fault. For example FF7's demo that leaked with WAY WAY more shit in the files than it should have had. And then be upset when you give out the files to people only to see all the extra shit datamined.
Eh, this smacks dangerously close to blaming the victim to me. I don't know the details of the leak for the game, because I don't really care for FF7, original or remake, but if it is a leak by accident/human erorr, I think they've got justification for being upset about it. I mean, yeah, they should still be more secure with their data regardless, but that's not really their "fault". Again, if it's human error. But I equally don't think they should be surprised that people, once getting their hands on it, parsed out every byte of data, because well, these are gamer nerds we're talking about, of course they are going to do that.
 

BrawlMan

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All this reads to me as is IGN complaining they won't be getting clicks on "Details of the Last of Us 2 Gameplay" and "Spoiler/spoiler-free review" articles. These people don't care about the marketing of a game, or the developers, or even the poor bastards that actually work 26 hour days to render Ellie's left buttcheck's pimple in a way that makes Naughty Dog's legal team can say is non-actionable and legally distinct from Ellen Page's pimple.(which okay I totally thought they had used Ellen Page as the model for Ellie this entire time. Nope turns out its a massive coincidence, except Page still thinks they ripped her off)

They care about clicks, ie ad revenue from banners. And the only way to get that is sensational headlines or insider information, and when the game leaks months in advance, guess what people don't need to read anymore?
And that is why I despise most of game journalism. IGN being the most of course. They're just another version of glorified tabloids that don't care for anything execpt their fragile egos, and stupid clicks. At least these leaks stopped some of their idiocy from spreading.
 

CriticalGaming

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Eh, this smacks dangerously close to blaming the victim to me.
I hate this defense. Like why is it bad that there are consequences for your actions. As if a faceless nameless corporation could be victim blamed. They made a demo that had a huge amount of extra files from the full game, because they didn't just build the demo with as minimal data as they needed, so when people datamined the demo they found pretty much the entire game.
 

happyninja42

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I hate this defense. Like why is it bad that there are consequences for your actions. As if a faceless nameless corporation could be victim blamed. They made a demo that had a huge amount of extra files from the full game, because they didn't just build the demo with as minimal data as they needed, so when people datamined the demo they found pretty much the entire game.
Like I said it depends on the details of how the leak happened. If someone actively hacked them for example, then I feel they are fully in the right to be upset about the leak. If it's because someone left too much data in the demo package, and computer savvy gamers sniffed through it. Yeah it's their fault, and the consequences for their actions are "the shit go leaked", but I do think they are still within their right to be upset about the leak. Not saying like "take legal action" upset, but yeah, they can be annoyed that the information got out. But just because something got leaked to you, does that justify you to further spread that information to everyone?

I mean if someone accidentally tells you they're pregnant, if you suddenly stand up and yell to the entire room "YOU'RE PREGNANT?!?! HOLY SHIT EVERYONE SHE'S PREGNANT!!" is that really your place to do that? And doesn't that still make you an asshole? Maybe it's not illegal, but it is a dick move in my opinion.
 

happyninja42

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Totally off topic, but I just have to comment, because your avatar picture keeps weirding me out. But, the hairtie thingy behind your avatar's head, given the alignment of it, and the color scheme, keeps making me think she's some kind of porsine furry or something, like the pig guy from DBZ or something. I have to do a double take every time and go "oh, that's a hairtie/bow thingy! not ears!" :D
 

Houseman

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Here's a scenario:

Let's say that there's a consumer who thinks "I won't buy this game if it has X in it"
Then a leak comes out which confirms that X is in the game.

If the leak never came out, the consumer would have bought the game, found X in it, and regretted their purchase.
But since the leak did come out, the consumer never purchased the game.

Is anyone justified in being upset in this scenario?

How many people would go back in time and tell themselves not to purchase a game or pay for a movie ticket? How many people regret seeing the final season of Game of Thrones, or the new Star Wars trilogy, or anything else that was bad?

Seems like the only reason people have to be upset is that they didn't successfully convince consumers to buy something that they'd later regret. If they really believed in their work, I don't think a leak would make a difference.

If it turns out that your fans don't like what they saw, either change it (a la the Sonic the Hedgehog movie), or stand by it.
 

CriticalGaming

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I mean if someone accidentally tells you they're pregnant, if you suddenly stand up and yell to the entire room "YOU'RE PREGNANT?!?! HOLY SHIT EVERYONE SHE'S PREGNANT!!" is that really your place to do that? And doesn't that still make you an asshole? Maybe it's not illegal, but it is a dick move in my opinion.
I mean i don't know if that's victim blaming, but that is being an asshole.

Let me give you an example:

Say you park your car in a bad neighborhood and you decide to leave something expensive in the car overnight. In the morning you find your car broken in and your expensive item is gone.

Please would rightly go, "Well why did you leave something expensive in a shitty neighborhood."

For that person to then reply, "How dare you victim blame?"

It seems silly. Look telling someone that their shit getting stolen is their own fault doesn't mean what happened isn't a crime or any less bad. What it does is point out that the person's action led to them with stolen shit. To label it victim blaming like only thief could be solely responsible is silly.

If your dumb choices lead to something bad happening to you, then you have a share of the fault for whatever happened. Things don't just happen in a vacuum.
 

CriticalGaming

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Totally off topic, but I just have to comment, because your avatar picture keeps weirding me out. But, the hairtie thingy behind your avatar's head, given the alignment of it, and the color scheme, keeps making me think she's some kind of porsine furry or something, like the pig guy from DBZ or something. I have to do a double take every time and go "oh, that's a hairtie/bow thingy! not ears!" :D
Yep Aerith totally isn't a furry....in this picture šŸ˜‰ šŸ˜‰
 

CriticalGaming

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Let's say that there's a consumer who thinks "I won't buy this game if it has X in it"
Then a leak comes out which confirms that X is in the game.

If the leak never came out, the consumer would have bought the game, found X in it, and regretted their purchase.
But since the leak did come out, the consumer never purchased the game.
I mean I don't agree with this, because there are plenty of reviews that usually go up before the games come out. It's not that common for the embargo to not be available until release day. So if the person is that set on not supporting a game if it has X in it, then they go buy the game without looking up the review or looking into available press, then that's their own fault.

Or is that victim blaming? See I don't even know anymore.
 

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No I don't remember those channels, never heard of the first one, and I vaguely recall CPG in passing? Know nothing of their content either.
You probably saw at least the thumbnail for one of his vids even if you never clicked on one. If you remember the "[insert game] didn't just die, it was MURDERED!!!" titles then you've come across his videos. Then, he was found out for not even playing the games he was talking about and taking footage from streamers. He does have that kinda knack for saying stuff that sounds smart and important but when you think about for a second, it's all bullshit. His new channel Nerdstalgic, that is a general pop culture channel, was also recommended to me by Youtube and I'm like WTF, I know this voice and it took me a minute to figure it out.
 
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Houseman

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So if the person is that set on not supporting a game if it has X in it, then they go buy the game without looking up the review or looking into available press, then that's their own fault.
For example, I wouldn't want to buy a sequel to a game where the main character, that I've become so attached to, is supposed to die an inglorious death. I'm not going to go looking up spoilers about such a crucial plot detail in order to make sure, however. The game previews and reviews wouldn't tell you about that. The entire industry would be trying to hide that information from you so that it "subverts your expectations".

There is a line between "unreasonable expectations that are your own fault", like a game having coffee in it, where you have a phobia of coffee or something, and "reasonable expectations", like you expect not to have your favorite character, or the lore, spat on.
 

happyninja42

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You probably saw at least the thumbnail for one of his vids even if you never clicked on one. If you remember the "[insert game] didn't just die, it was MURDERED!!!" titles then you've come across his videos. Then, he was found out for not even playing the games he was talking about and taking footage from streamers. He does have that kinda knack for saying stuff that sounds smart and important but when you think about for a second, it's all bullshit. His new channel Nerdstalgic, that is a general pop culture channel, was also recommended to me by Youtube and I'm like WTF, I know this voice and it took me a minute to figure it out.
The first example given...Downward Thrust? I genuinely do not recognize that name at all. I saw that, and my brain read Down Is Not UP, which I think was my brain warping it to Up Is Not Jump? maybe? But yeah, I have zero recollection of Downward Thrust at all, that name, if it did pass my eyeballs when skimming YT recommendations, had zero retention capacity with me. CleanPriceGaming is a name I recognize, but I mean, it's like one of dozens of titles that I don't register at all when skimming youtube. I don't really browse the suggestions too much to be honest. I drill down for specific things and that's really it. Yes they technically appear on my screen on the right side, but I don't actually ever really pass my eyeballs over them all that often, because I've learned that what YT suggests to me, is usually shit, and I don't really need to check there.
 
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CriticalGaming

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For example, I wouldn't want to buy a sequel to a game where the main character, that I've become so attached to, is supposed to die an inglorious death. I'm not going to go looking up spoilers about such a crucial plot detail in order to make sure, however. The game previews and reviews wouldn't tell you about that. The entire industry would be trying to hide that information from you so that it "subverts your expectations".

There is a line between "unreasonable expectations that are your own fault", like a game having coffee in it, where you have a phobia of coffee or something, and "reasonable expectations", like you expect not to have your favorite character, or the lore, spat on.
That's not a fair detail to put on the game though. You might get that game and love every moment of the gameplay, and only end up upset about the story because of the treatment of the main character in the end, but it doesn't invalidate the rest of the game. And a leak of such a detail certainly shouldn't impact your feeling about playing the game because context matters.

There is also the possibility that even though you don't want that character to die, the WAY they die turns out to be really impactful for the story and the rest of the game. Thus you don't get upset by it.

Look we both know you are referring to TLOU2 by this, and there is perfectly good justifications to not buy the game at this point. But if the leaks didn't happen, it isn't a guarantee that the plot would end up upsetting you had it been presented in the context of the game. Remember before that event happens in the game, you are probably playing and having fun, and you'll probably have fun after that part as well, so long as the gameplay isn't fucked up.

However you if wanted to miss this game because Naughty Dog and Sony have been real fucking dickheads about the leaks, then I'd say you got yourself a good reason because fuck those guys.