Thousands Sign Petition Demanding Removal of SimCity DRM

OldNewNewOld

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I actually find this funny. They bought the game knowing that it will have always online DRM that has never worked properly. They gave their money to EA knowing they will be fucked over and now they ask for a change? Isn't it a bit too late? They should have thought this trough before they trow their money at EA.

I know several people who I warned not to buy the game because of the DRM and their answer was "hurr durr I don't have problems with that" and now they signed that petition. They didn't care that they promoted a bad business practice. Them buying the game gave EA reason to use this same shit again in the next game. But they didn't care.
But now that the DRM did fuck them over, they cry.

I don't have sympathy for anyone who bought the game. Same as I didn't have for people who bought Diablo 3 or any Ubisoft game that required always online. They gave their money knowing it would have always online requirements and a huge part of the internet is constantly warning about the bad sides of it.
 

Abomination

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Shine on you crazy diamonds.

One of two things could happen here:

EA does nothing and continues to suck the bad publicity pacifier.
EA updates the game with an offline mode, makes themselves look better in the public's eye and makes the majority of gamers happy - they'll probably even get more sales.

Take note that a petition that you acquiesce to does not set a precedent to acquiesce to all future petitions over the same number of signatures. EA is fully entitled to just ignore this petition, just as how entitled the petitioners are to make it. I use the word "entitled" in its correct sense, not in the frequently poorly bandied about way of implying a group is demanding entitlement.
 

Signa

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Fasckira said:
Thing is, DRM isn't really at fault here, its the shoddy unprepared server infrastructure they set up which is failing. Im not really that fussed with DRM and while I can see the arguments against having it in predominately a single player game, I also respect the need to try and protect the games from piracy.

Had the infrastructure been better organised (and, you know, perhaps listened to the issues raised during the beta), people might have been a bit more accepting of the DRM in this instance.
"Being robbed isn't so bad, if you just don't carry any money or other valuables on you, there won't be anything to lose!"

Doesn't mean being robbed should happen in the first place.


[sub][sub][sub][sub][sub]I was going to use a sexual act and the size of an orifice as the analogy, but thought better of it.[/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub]
 

mad825

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Radelaide said:
IT IS NOT DRM. AS MUCH AS YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT IT BEING DRM, IT IS NOT DRM. SIMCITY IS NOW A MMO.
So what? Everything with multiplayer is now an MMO? Halo is more "MMO" than sim city.
 

GroovySpecs

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I have to admit I didn't but the game. I wanted to, i spent hours with the original sim city and i brought every sequel so far, but I won't buy a game with always online DRM. If we all refused to buy games when they do this it wouldn't be long before they stopped. I still think signing the petition is a good idea, because it gives an absolute statistic that can be used to measure feeling on the issue, but the only way they will stop doing this is if it costs them money.
 

IamLEAM1983

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Aug 22, 2011
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Zachary Amaranth said:
Lying would suggest malicious intent. EA's PR department isn't malicious - it's just fairly stupid and succumbs to the easiest and most damaging trends in PR, and for what? A few guaranteed pre-orders?

One of the problems we tend to have as a whole is that we consumers like to imagine publishers as Snidely Whiplash types who snicker in evil relish whenever a debacle like SimCity's happens. Maliciousness never enters the picture - it's just plain and simple stupidity and presenting a very limited tech framework as being able to do something it isn't.

After all, you have to remember that PR goons aren't necessarily gamers. They don't know they're fabricating info - their job is to paint a pretty picture so we order copies. Why else would every other Triple A publisher be concerned about making each and every new release seem like the Best Thing Ever?

In other words - honest representation wouldn't drive sales and, unfortunately, these companies depend on sales.

Can you imagine an entirely honest sales pitch about Mass Effect?

"So, uh, the big story we told you you'd significantly shape? Yeah, we're lacking the hardware and capability to take every single variable into account so, well... Let's just say Mass Effect 2's going to base itself off an approximation of what you did in the first game.

As for the third game? We had these insane ideas about the Thorian and the Rachni Queen, but we're lacking disc space - again! I know, right? Isn't it frustrating?! Look, we've had to half-ass it a bit, okay? Just so you know. Plus, EA's been riding our asses so we appeal to the CoD crowd, so just so you know, there's a Dudebro and a badly rendered Jess Chobot in the cast.

Oh, shit, I almost forgot - Yeah, sorry man, but we've been forced to add perfunctory multiplayer into the mix, so the single player's kinda... Well, let's just say we had to shoot for a really mean average of what you'd consider an ending. We wracked our brains for, like, three weeks trying to get the Collectors and the Reapers and Indoctrination to make sense and, honestly?

Yeap - the Star Child's the best thing we could come up with. Y'know, it's supposed to evoke the kid from the beginning of the game and Shepard's remorse and, well...

Oh, the Indoctrination Theory? Yeah, no. The execs couldn't wrap their brains around it. Star Child. Yeah man, I know it sucks.

So - anyway. Buy the games? Please?"

Not much of a sales pitch at all, is it?

Entitlement refers to the act of thinking you deserve something more than what's actually on offer. If you go by the fact that all three games have a beginning, a midpoint and an end, then we did get an ending. It wasn't great, but are you going to complain to the publisher because, say, a book you knowingly purchased sucks? Returning an unsatisfactory game is an option. Getting a refund is one, too. Angrily clamouring you had the right to this and that is not an option. I know the notion of the Demon Consumer gets some flak and that we're more or less pushed to consider that the customer is always right but - no. The customer isn't always right. The customer isn't an animator or a level designer or a scriptwriter. The customer is entitled to his opinion, but he should also accept that his opinion is not Word of God, no matter how rabid and passionate the fandom.

Entitlement refers to the act of thinking you're in control of things you have no real say over. The day we'll all have our personal game studio is the day pigs will fly, and it's also the day where we'll all be perfectly and utterly entitled to demand stories that end in specific ways. Right now, however, we don't. We never will, most likely.

Let's just tie this off quickly. Aliens: Colonial Marines isn't a case of entitlement. Evidence is there that you're not looking at a simple case of a developer putting too many eggs in the same basket; you're looking at Gearbox who probably realized the sheer mess they'd found themselves in, realized they couldn't back out, and took their chances with a doctored demo. It's dishonest, it's desperate. Mass Effect 3 was perhaps desperate in the way it ended, but I wouldn't call it dishonest. The story ended. Period. You could feel the narrative and technical constraints strangling the devs and forcing them to go for the three-way Space Magic ending, as there is no Earthly way they could have delivered on their *initial* vision.

Peter Molyneux has pipe dreams. BioWare bit off more than it could chew. That's all. It did chew some of it, so to speak, however - enough to constitute what does act as a mechanically decent ending. It sucks from a narrative point of view, of course, and the Extended Cut was sorely needed - but the original version was an adequate ending in that it did what endings are supposed to do. That is, end the story.

As for SimCity; I wouldn't call it fraud. In this case, however, I don't think those complaining are spoiled. I think it's justified, as EA has had the opportunity to watch and learn from Blizzard's difficult launch with Diablo III. It's had ample time to see what fans thought of always-online DRM measures and to adjust itself accordingly. Did it attempt anything? Nope. Why?

Because the Big Three are terrorized at the thought of losing money to pirates, they're desperately looking for a reason to inflate the starting asking price, and are willing to piss off their consumer base if that means an initial and sizable entry of hard cash. The copy I bought and that I'm starting to regret buying is sixty bucks in Electronic Arts' pockets. Plus, the fun thing about DRM of that nature is that it puts the game's obsolescence right in the publisher's hands. SimCity will become obsolete the day EA will decide Maxis needs to work on a sequel, and EA will gladly throw the current version's corpse out to the wolves.

In this case, we have every right to make noise; as I seriously doubt EA is going to give much of a damn. They'd need to suffer several successive awful always-online launches for them to go "You know what? Maybe that wasn't such a good idea after all..."

A single person can reason quickly enough. A group of people, especially large corporations driven by shareholders who don't know the first thing about their product, are generally fairly dumb.
 

StubbornGiant

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Why would people buy this to begin with, we already knew it was gonna have DRM and EA still make money off the purchase so unless you don't buy it at all then a petition seems a bit redundant.
 

GonvilleBromhead

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StubbornGiant said:
Why would people buy this to begin with, we already knew it was gonna have DRM and EA still make money off the purchase so unless you don't buy it at all then a petition seems a bit redundant.
The vast majority of people who purchase games are not on the escapist, and do not keep up with gaming news and its associated consumer controversies. They go into shops and think "Oh, wow, there's a new SimCity out. I think I'll buy that". I didn't buy it myself because of the DRM, but that's because I understand what always on DRM means (and how it would render the game unplayable to me). For every one of us there are (quite clearly) thousands of people who...just wanted to play the new SimCity
 

Lightspeaker

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Hey, first time I ever went back to a thread. Guess I'm really bored this afternoon.


IamLEAM1983 said:
You are very, very wrong and clearly did not understand the problems behind Mass Effect 3. Please go back and look into it again if you wish to continue arguing that they're different situations because frankly you're just coming across as yet another person who did not do their research before dismissing the complaints of thousands of people. If you don't truly understand the problems with it (and a huge amount of people don't) then you can't understand the complaints. Its as simple as that.

This was NOT the EA PR department saying things as you seem to think it was. This was people such as Casey Hudson, the DIRECTOR OF THE GAME, making commitments, publicly, about how the game was going to be. And then those commitments were found to be lies. It wasn't a case of biting off more than they can chew. It wasn't a case of over-ambition not living up to the expectations of their initial ideas. It was a case of the game development team making explicit statements as to what was going to be in the game and then not delivering. Just like Aliens.

So I say it again: If you think that the Mass Effect 3 ending problem was "entitlement" then you must also view the Alien's Colonial Marines issue as "entitlement". In BOTH cases the people making the games lied to the customers in order to get them to buy it. It was flat out dishonesty.

But if you want to keep patting yourself on the back for not being "childish" then I guess I can't stop you. But if you do, then you fundamentally don't understand the issue. *shrug*
 

Norix596

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You know what would be a better way to convince developers and publishers not to implement always on DRM? Don't buy games that have it. Same goes for the launch fiasco, if people keep buying into hype and pre-order before reviews come out and they hear from the general public if there are problem you have no idea what the quality will be. If the makers already made their money they don't care if people are happy because they know that these same unhappy people will buy the next thing they hype up anyway. Prove them wrong.

Also I am completely baffled by the people comparing this debacle and the recent Aliens game situation to the so-called "Mass Effect 3 Controversy" -- Bioware made a creative decision that some people didn't like who proceeded to whine about it. In this case and the Aliens case, the producers shipped and sold a defective product. If you buy a refrigerator that doesn't stay cold you demand a refund or replacement - a simplistic metaphor, perhaps but the point stands: this isn't a case of people whining that they didn't like a design choice, it's people being justifiably angry that they paid a good deal of money for something that does not work. Setting aside the fact that they all knew the game would have the risks inherent to always on DRM, that is a case where you should legitimately be allowed to request a refund.
 

synobal

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I made a joke about people asking the president to make EA take away the evil DRM but now I feel bad for having predicted this mess. Guys, change.org isn't an outlet for your ever petty problem.
 
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TizzytheTormentor said:
II2 said:
Here's a branch to throw on the consumer rights fire pit:

Amazon Offers Refunds. Asked to do the same, EA refuses via Origin, threatens to ban customer if they reclaim digital purchase via their bank / credit card. Note, EA did issue a statement inviting you to request a refund via this channel, but did not, in fine print, promise one.

Wow, so they claim they will give you a refund if you are unhappy with the game and threaten to ban users who request a refund?

How are they able to get away with stuff like that? Isn't that a false statement?
Don't worry. EA has stated on Twitter that requesting a refund will not get you banned, nor will bank disputes. There's an article on Kotaku [http://kotaku.com/5989299/no-ea-wont-ban-you-on-origin-if-you-ask-for-a-refund-for-simcity], as well as on this very website, mentioning it.

Oh, and it's a little suspicious that every article discussing the supposed threats links back to the same exact article, and no other source.
 

StubbornGiant

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GonvilleBromhead said:
StubbornGiant said:
Why would people buy this to begin with, we already knew it was gonna have DRM and EA still make money off the purchase so unless you don't buy it at all then a petition seems a bit redundant.
The vast majority of people who purchase games are not on the escapist, and do not keep up with gaming news and its associated consumer controversies. They go into shops and think "Oh, wow, there's a new SimCity out. I think I'll buy that". I didn't buy it myself because of the DRM, but that's because I understand what always on DRM means (and how it would render the game unplayable to me). For every one of us there are (quite clearly) thousands of people who...just wanted to play the new SimCity
That's true, but I mean the people who are capable of learning this stuff (who do learn this through whatever Internet site they look on) who still purchase it even after they know its gonna have DRM but still complain about it.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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Dont petition, boycot. seriuosly, NOBODY CARES ABOUT PETITIONS. as long as you keep pouring money down thier throats they will ignore all your moanings. 34000 people is NOTHING compared to millions that bought it.
 

Joccaren

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Mar 29, 2011
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IamLEAM1983 said:
As has been said already, you don't understand Mass Effect 3's "Lie" claims at all. I can get the people who say "Bioware didn't lie, what we thought they meant and what they thought they meant were just 2 different things", though I will disagree with them on that, but not the whole "It was EA's marketing department" and "They bit off more than they could chew". Those are patently false for 2 reasons.
1. It was not the marketing department, but the developers themselves who told these lies. The people actually making the game, some of the lead designers and the guy who was leading the whole project himself said these things. So yes, these people do know about games. They're bloody making them. They DO know they are fabricating info.
2. Some of these statements were made 1 month before the games release, or even after it had "Gone gold" and started being printed onto disks. This isn't a "We're planning to do this, but turns out we can't" its a "We couldn't do this, but we'll say we did anyway 'cause we know that's what you want to here".

Its not so much a case of Snidley Whiplash as Ebenezer Scrooge. They're not being malignant, they're just trying to get people to give them money, and if they have to tell a few half-truths to do so then so be it. Its called marketing, and it doesn't exist to be benign and help consumers, it exists to make consumers hand over their money, and do it willingly and enthusiastically at that.

Strazdas said:
Dont petition, boycot. seriuosly, NOBODY CARES ABOUT PETITIONS. as long as you keep pouring money down thier throats they will ignore all your moanings. 34000 people is NOTHING compared to millions that bought it.
Please see the Jimquisition episode on this. Boycotts do nothing. They tell a publisher that a certain game type is not profitable, and that they should stop making those sorts of games and start making more shooters 'cause those are reliable money makers.
Petitions, anger and Internet outrage have been proven to work, on the other hand. See Mass Effect 3. People raged. A patch was released, even if it was half-assed. Or, see Dark Souls. People asked for a PC edition, petitioned it, and then got it. They didn't get their friends to silently stop buying the game on consoles, 'cause that wouldn't work. Complaining and petitioning get attention, and if done on a large enough scale bring a LOT of bad press to the game. See Mass Effect 3. That bad press impacts sales. When it impacts sales, and they know why, publishers will do something to fix it. Just boycotting though does nothing. You've got to boycott and make a noise if you want some effect, and then its the noise you're making that's getting results, not your boycott.
As you said, 34000 people not buying the game is nothing compared to the millions that do. A small boycott won't do much, and a large one will just end the franchise.
 

GonvilleBromhead

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The petition should only really be considered as a small component a wider campaign to have an offline mode instituted. The press (both gaming and national) attention, the poor PR generated and the inevitable questions from shareholders wondering why they are spending a fortune more on server costs than was expected when it wasn't necessary could put an end such rubbish in the future, or maybe get the mode patch or, if impossible, a future "SimCity Offline" game...
 

Xanadu84

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A friend convinced me to buy the game, and giving it a shot a few things occurred to me. The way that EA handled things is unacceptable. Sure, everyone went into the game knowing that it would have always on DRM, but they also had a right to assume that the game would WORK. If you predicted the disaster then hey, congrats on being so smart, but it is completely reasonable to have the expectation that things you buy will work. However, this "It's a single player game" nonsense needs to end. It is a multiplayer game, and it is greatly enriched for being a multiplayer game. A single player mode is needed after this whole disaster, sure. But the multiplayer components is very valid.

What we need is not a boycott, petition, or big organized action. We need to look at a game like this, and do the math like we do with any product. We need to factor in the draconian measures and connectivity failures, and also the games quality, and make a purchasing decision based on that. Instead of some flashy show that makes EA just convince themselves that its a small group of people with a sense of entitlement exaggerating problems, just be open with them about how the DRM discouraged a purchase. If they feel like this is the complaints of a normal consumer, the will change there way. Probably not enough, too slowly, and in a sort of dickish way (This IS EA) but it will happen. And it will happen through normal market forces.
 

Frankster

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Mar 13, 2009
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Id sign the petition aswell but too busy not giving a damn about sim city 5 besides following the launch as i would watch a train crash.

Its a shame, id genuinely want to play a city builder i can play with friends, but with my unreliable internet connection and previous bad experiences with always online games, ive come to the conclusion EA doesnt want my money, so passed and succeeded my willpower test to not buy the game. And man has that saved me a lot of grief it seems ^^
 
Jun 11, 2008
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Radelaide said:
So they're effective trying to have EA pull the game off the shelves for good?

Okay boys and girls, gather round. You in the back! Shut up and let me talk.

IT IS NOT DRM. AS MUCH AS YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT IT BEING DRM, IT IS NOT DRM. SIMCITY IS NOW A MMO.

Does anyone not remember that this happened to GW2? Amazon pulled it from their digital distribution service, people had incredible trouble connecting to the servers but people didn't complain because it wasn't EA so it couldn't be wrong! It was just a hiccup.

Sorry to burst you bubble guys, but this is the way games are going. Either find a new hobby or embrace it and try to help developers understand what they need to do to fix launch issues.

Also, blame Maxis, not EA.
Guild Wars 2 wasn't sold because there wasn't any keys left and they didn't want to hit a key to make more. At most Guild Wars 2 was down for about 3 hours. Hardly something like this or Error 37. Also you need to look up what an MMO as Sim City nor World of Tanks or LoL are one despite what anyone says or as which it is marketed.