Three really good reasons to abolish the death penalty

Evilbunny

New member
Feb 23, 2008
2,099
0
0
Good morning blues said:
2. A common argument for the death penalty is that it is an effective deterrent, because nobody wants to get executed. This is bullshit, because nobody commits a crime if they expect to get caught. The psychological evidence here is pretty clear - nobody is going to say "maybe I shouldn't shoot this guy" because they might get executed for it in fifteen years.
Let me ask you something, if the penalty for littering were a severe caning, do you think people would litter more or less than if say, the penalty were a $50 fine? Obviously less. Look at Singapore. Their justice system calls for public canings when somebody litters or vandalizes property, and I have never seen cleaner streets in my life. Harsher punishments must deter people from committing crimes. The very idea that they don't is ludicrous.
 

weeman3000

New member
Mar 29, 2009
21
0
0
Didn't read all the replys but after the OP i just had to let my viewpoint out.

Imagine if you will, somebody is pushed into a corner and stabbed/raped within an inch of their lives, now please tell me how you would explain to them that the person that did it only got a 4 years prison sentance and is appealing for bail after the first 10 months even though they ruined the victims life.

There is no death penalty here in the UK and its turning into a shizzle hole because criminals know they can get away with it.

You fight fire with fire, no simpler way to put it, some people deserve to be killed... hell, i would make the death penalty something even more batshit crazy and rotten, rape would land you in a room with a very angry family (You would have your arms and legs severed off first ofcourse) murder would see you fed to a pack of piranha or something of the sorts.

We have to keep the world population down somehow, either we do it or mother nature does it herself with hurricanes/earthquakes/flu outbreaks etc, boo hoo
 
Mar 17, 2009
4,094
0
0
Lexodus said:
I'm a misanthropistic bastard that had a party when JG popped it. Sure, the party was for something else, but I pretended it was for that. I say, keep it, and diminish the number of sick fuckers running around. Oh, and to the guy calling people Nazis-
1. Godwin's Law.
2. I'm Jewish, so there.
How does your jewishness have anything to do with not being a nazi? Saying that criminals people should be eliminated from the gene pool is certainly a very nazi thing to say.
If nazism and jewishness were so incompatible, then Israel should be called Oxymoronland.
 

Evilbunny

New member
Feb 23, 2008
2,099
0
0
The infamous SCAMola said:
Lexodus said:
I'm a misanthropistic bastard that had a party when JG popped it. Sure, the party was for something else, but I pretended it was for that. I say, keep it, and diminish the number of sick fuckers running around. Oh, and to the guy calling people Nazis-
1. Godwin's Law.
2. I'm Jewish, so there.
How does your jewishness have anything to do with not being a nazi? Saying that criminals people should be eliminated from the gene pool is certainly a very nazi thing to say.
If nazism and jewishness were so incompatible, then Israel should be called Oxymoronland.
So, you are comparing the genocide of an innocent people that did nothing wrong other than be born Jewish to the execution of individuals who murder productive members of our society. Wow, I have nothing more to say to you.
 
Mar 17, 2009
4,094
0
0
Evilbunny said:
So, you are comparing the genocide of an innocent people that did nothing wrong other than be born Jewish to the execution of individuals who murder productive members of our society. Wow, I have nothing more to say to you.
No, I'm talking about stealing somebody's land, treating them like second class citizens in their own country, then shooting up their women and children with white phosphorus.
Palestinians never did anything wrong either.
 

Good morning blues

New member
Sep 24, 2008
2,664
0
0
All right, I haven't read the whole thread since I need to get to work, but I figured I'd give short responses to a couple of the posts that have popped up in my inbox.

Ozu08865 said:
Then you pay taxes for the murders and rapists to sit in jail for the rest of their miserable lives.
Which, surprisingly, is millions of dollars cheaper [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29552692/] than executing them.

Evilbunny said:
Good morning blues said:
2. A common argument for the death penalty is that it is an effective deterrent, because nobody wants to get executed. This is bullshit, because nobody commits a crime if they expect to get caught. The psychological evidence here is pretty clear - nobody is going to say "maybe I shouldn't shoot this guy" because they might get executed for it in fifteen years.
Let me ask you something, if the penalty for littering were a severe caning, do you think people would litter more or less than if say, the penalty were a $50 fine? Obviously less. Look at Singapore. Their justice system calls for public canings when somebody litters or vandalizes property, and I have never seen cleaner streets in my life. Harsher punishments must deter people from committing crimes. The very idea that they don't is ludicrous.
A ten-second search on a psychology scholarship database turned up the following scientific studies that disagree with you:

Exploring the Effects of Attitudes Toward the Death Penalty on Capital Sentencing Verdicts.Preview O'Neil, Kevin M.; Patry, Marc W.; Penrod, Steven D.; Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, Vol 10(4), Dec 2004. pp. 443-470. [Journal Article]

Capital punishment: Arguments for life and death.Preview Honeyman, Jennifer C.; Ogloff, James R. P.; Canadian Journal of Behavioural Science/Revue canadienne des sciences du comportement, Vol 28(1), Jan 1996. pp. 27-35. [Journal Article]

This is without refining my search at all, following citations in these articles, or even reading all of the articles that poppped pup in my search - I'm pretty sure that two others include the same information. The statistics may surprise you, and you can read them in the latter article: places with the death penalty have a higher rate of homicide than places without.
 

Ignignoct

New member
Feb 14, 2009
948
0
0
Good morning blues said:
1. It's open to hideous, terrible abuse. The death penalty is the tool of choice for oppressive political regimes and social movements. It's a handy way of quashing dissent and getting rid of people your society doesn't like for whatever reason. This is true in all countries that use it. Consider the United States: in Texas, people on death row are often there thanks to completely incompetent court-appointed defense lawyers with no experience in such cases (rather than the experienced public defenders that are vital in such a system) - and do I really need to mention the race issue? You can tell me all you like that your own government would never allow such a travesty to occur (or be perpetuated), but you'll excuse me if I'm skeptical.

2. A common argument for the death penalty is that it is an effective deterrent, because nobody wants to get executed. This is bullshit, because nobody commits a crime if they expect to get caught. The psychological evidence here is pretty clear - nobody is going to say "maybe I shouldn't shoot this guy" because they might get executed for it in fifteen years.

3. The death penalty is fundamentally incompatible with the fundamental assumption of Western criminal law, which is that it is worse to punish an innocent man than it is to let a guilty man go free. (This is why you are "innocent until proven guilty," and why you need to be proven guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt" - if there's any doubt, you should be considered innocent in order to avoid any possibility of punishing an innocent person.) It stands to reason that this principle should be enforced especially rigorously the worse the punishment is. A death sentence is about as bad as a punishment gets. Despite this, even such enlightened societies as the United States have executed innocent men. Take the case of Leonel Torres Herrera, who was executed in 1993, despite the fact that he had evidence that could have seen him acquitted. We cannot take the risk of this happening even one more time.

So, let's have some reasoned, level, argumentative dialogue about this issue in here! Please, don't troll, flamebait, or otherwise be a prick.
Let's make a deal:

We'll get rid of the death penalty, and televise arena matches between previous death row inmates. That way, it's prisoners killing themselves. We're morally in the clear!

Now lets watch this guy get his skull punctured...

SRSFACE: I'd rather keep the death penalty around for people we have overwhelming evidence for, because housing a person for life in prison strikes me as pointless and expensive.

Now come back at me telling me how circumstances cause the death penalty to cost more than life in prison.

Then I'll say BS and offer new and interesting ways to affordably kill people.

Then you say I'm missing the point and that people still stay on death row for several years before their execution.

Then I'll bring up the point that life in prison is a pretty garbage way to go out if you're innocent anyway. Housed with a wide spectrum of scum for the rest of your days.

Then you'll say I can't speak for the prisoner's, and that they'd disagree. Or maybe in 10-15 years new evidence will pop up that clears the exonerates the prisoner.

Then I'll say that we're talking about people we've never met and with the morally and logically gray area from situation to situation that we can't put a blanket solution on.

We then agree to disagree.
 

Deguasser

New member
Feb 18, 2009
463
0
0
jasoncyrus said:
Three really good reasons to KEEP the death penalty:

1) Murder (you kill someone, we'll kill you back)
2) Rapists/Child abusers/molestors
3) Chavs.

All three above reasons are why we INTRODUCED it to begin with. Plus prison doesn't work for these idiots. Every person who murders in cold blood WILL re-offend, so far I've yet to hear about either a 1/2/3 who HASN'T re-offended.

As for 2, currently we only have the Death penalty for serial murderers and possible other extreme crimes. Not like a couple centuries ago where you got hanged for far less.

And as for number 3, thats why they have YEARS on death row. YEARS. To appeal and PROVE they are innocent with new evidence etc etc etc.

Personally, I'm all in favor of the death penalty, especially if theres a mountain of evidence against you and 3 or more credible witnesses.
Yes and we also have to pay in Taxes to keep them in there.
 

Mrsoupcup

New member
Jan 13, 2009
3,487
0
0
Mr.Tea said:
The death penalty has already been abolished in Canada so, non-issue...

But I agree that it's extreme and the thought of being wrongly sentenced to death thoroughly scares me.

It just bugs me that, on the other hand, some people really don't deserve to be left alive and given the possibility of parole...
Isn't Canada great?
 

MattyDienhoff

New member
Jan 3, 2008
342
0
0
I support the death penalty in some cases. Cases in which the crime committed is sufficiently heinous or harmful to society as a whole (arsonists purposefully lighting bushfires on the hottest days of the year? They're potential mass murderers, no matter what path the fires take.), and especially in which there is little or no chance of rehabilitation. (More on that later)

Consider this example: An 11-year old boy murders his father's pregnant fiancee with a shotgun. The motive? Apparently, he was jealous of her children. The murder was clearly premeditated, as he even used a pillow to dampen the sound of the blast.

Source [http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.435ee54695f096e1c77c6fc27a19acd2.161&show_article=1]

Now, you can go ahead and call me barbaric if you like, but I just don't understand why anyone believes society owes anything to people who commit heinous crimes like these. Of course there are some cases where the perpetrator of a crime isn't fully responsible for what they did due to certain circumstances -- such as severe/ongoing mistreatment of the perpetrator by the victim, for a very simple example -- but there's no mention of such circumstances in the article. If there are such circumstances, they'll come out in the trial, I'm sure. But if this case is what it sounds like: cold blooded, premeditated murder for a petty reason, I feel this kid deserves the death sentence.

The way I see it, unless the kid is proven to be mentally disturbed in such a way that he's not entirely responsible for his actions, and that there's a decent possibility he can be rehabilitated, he has no place in a civilized society. Yes, I believe human life is precious, but as far as I'm concerned, he waived his right to live by taking that right from two others. It's not about revenge, it's simply about removing (preferably via as painless a method as is practically possibly) those who have proven they have no place in a civilized society. It's "taking out the trash", as much as I loathe to use that term in this context, the meaning is appropriate.

It's open to hideous, terrible abuse.
How is any other means of punishment less open to abuse? Capital punishment, like all forms of punishment, is a tool. It can be abused, and the fact that it's among the most powerful of such tools means that when it is abused the consequences are farther-reaching. But, like a person above me said, that's why safeguards are in place. That's why a person sentenced to death has years on death row to appeal their sentence. Wrongful conviction is terrible no matter the result, but truly, the consequences are more dire if the conviction results in a death sentence, which is why I believe it should only be employed in rock solid cases in which the evidence is overwhelming. Say, for example, that someone murders half a dozen people in a public place and dozens of witnesses can identify them, in addition to other evidence.

A common argument for the death penalty is that it is an effective deterrent, because nobody wants to get executed. This is bullshit, because nobody commits a crime if they expect to get caught. The psychological evidence here is pretty clear - nobody is going to say "maybe I shouldn't shoot this guy" because they might get executed for it in fifteen years.
It's true that some criminals believe they'll never get caught, but I can't honestly believe that the majority of them have never even considered the possibility of being caught or its consequences. There's a big difference between a criminal believing they'll get away with whatever they do and a criminal flaunting the law because they know their life won't be over if they get caught.
 

Dante_Alucard

New member
May 16, 2008
309
0
0
i live in Texas and we do the most every year. The only thing is it is taking too long to go thruough all thoses ppl I think we should speed up the process and stop waiting so many years waiting to do it I say just Line them up at the nooses and do it old testement style
 

Dante_Alucard

New member
May 16, 2008
309
0
0
Patrick_and_the_ricks said:
Mr.Tea said:
The death penalty has already been abolished in Canada so, non-issue...

But I agree that it's extreme and the thought of being wrongly sentenced to death thoroughly scares me.

It just bugs me that, on the other hand, some people really don't deserve to be left alive and given the possibility of parole...
Isn't Canada great?
no...no it isn't
 

Mrsoupcup

New member
Jan 13, 2009
3,487
0
0
Evilbunny said:
The infamous SCAMola said:
Lexodus said:
I'm a misanthropistic bastard that had a party when JG popped it. Sure, the party was for something else, but I pretended it was for that. I say, keep it, and diminish the number of sick fuckers running around. Oh, and to the guy calling people Nazis-
1. Godwin's Law.
2. I'm Jewish, so there.
How does your jewishness have anything to do with not being a nazi? Saying that criminals people should be eliminated from the gene pool is certainly a very nazi thing to say.
If nazism and jewishness were so incompatible, then Israel should be called Oxymoronland.
So, you are comparing the genocide of an innocent people that did nothing wrong other than be born Jewish to the execution of individuals who murder productive members of our society. Wow, I have nothing more to say to you.
People, lets not have a flame war.
 

Mrsoupcup

New member
Jan 13, 2009
3,487
0
0
Dante_Alucard said:
Patrick_and_the_ricks said:
Mr.Tea said:
The death penalty has already been abolished in Canada so, non-issue...

But I agree that it's extreme and the thought of being wrongly sentenced to death thoroughly scares me.

It just bugs me that, on the other hand, some people really don't deserve to be left alive and given the possibility of parole...
Isn't Canada great?
no...no it isn't
yes...yes it is.
 

Xvito

New member
Aug 16, 2008
2,114
0
0
Frizzle said:
I am for the death penalty, as I believe that certain crimes should be punishable by removing your defective genes from out pool. That being said, I think other things could be done with the people that should be put to death.

Cheap labor. Make the guys that fuck up, do things that need doing. A lot of people that get put in jail ARE skilled at one task or another. My parents used to tell me that people in jail made license plates. Not sure if that's true, but if it is, then good. They should also do things like repair government owned structures.
Got a statue that needs cleaning, or a park that needs a deliterizer? Call Asshat #23452 and make him clean that crap up.

A lot of these guys have it better IN jail than they did OUT of jail. Books, excercise, food, and even cable TV. Even the U.S. Military makes you pay for all of those, save exercise. So make them work. Hell, give them the choice! A- you work 6 days a week doing things for the city. B- We kill you. Pick one.

Xvito said:
The only problem is that the government actually uses it as a way to get revenge on people... Which sucks.

I mean, if you're going to destroy their lives anyway, then you might as well kill them (not that I think that you should kill them).

If you live in the US of A: I feel bad for you. That whole system is pretty messed up, to quote Rage Against the Machine- "Some of those that work forces, are the same that burnt crosses."
The system isn't really that bad. It's infinately more helpful, than it is hurtful. That being said, everyone knows it's not perfect. Unless there's some high profile thing going on, "revenge" isn't really a reason people are put to death. Unless by "revenge", you mean "people who dicked up BAD and need to be dealt with."
That's exactly what I mean by revenge... People who other people think "dicked up bad" and need to be dealt with. Because you're not dealing with the problem by removing the problem. The only thing you're doing then is... Removing the problem.
 

pffh

New member
Oct 10, 2008
774
0
0
Actually in my mind the only reason there that I can agree with is the second one but that's probably because I like the idea of a police state and believe that sacrificing some innocent to punish the guilty is more the acceptable.
 

Swordsponge

New member
Mar 19, 2009
63
0
0
Good morning blues said:
1. It's open to hideous, terrible abuse. The death penalty is the tool of choice for oppressive political regimes and social movements. It's a handy way of quashing dissent and getting rid of people your society doesn't like for whatever reason. This is true in all countries that use it. Consider the United States: in Texas, people on death row are often there thanks to completely incompetent court-appointed defense lawyers with no experience in such cases (rather than the experienced public defenders that are vital in such a system) - and do I really need to mention the race issue? You can tell me all you like that your own government would never allow such a travesty to occur (or be perpetuated), but you'll excuse me if I'm skeptical.

2. A common argument for the death penalty is that it is an effective deterrent, because nobody wants to get executed. This is bullshit, because nobody commits a crime if they expect to get caught. The psychological evidence here is pretty clear - nobody is going to say "maybe I shouldn't shoot this guy" because they might get executed for it in fifteen years.

3. The death penalty is fundamentally incompatible with the fundamental assumption of Western criminal law, which is that it is worse to punish an innocent man than it is to let a guilty man go free. (This is why you are "innocent until proven guilty," and why you need to be proven guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt" - if there's any doubt, you should be considered innocent in order to avoid any possibility of punishing an innocent person.) It stands to reason that this principle should be enforced especially rigorously the worse the punishment is. A death sentence is about as bad as a punishment gets. Despite this, even such enlightened societies as the United States have executed innocent men. Take the case of Leonel Torres Herrera, who was executed in 1993, despite the fact that he had evidence that could have seen him acquitted. We cannot take the risk of this happening even one more time.

So, let's have some reasoned, level, argumentative dialogue about this issue in here! Please, don't troll, flamebait, or otherwise be a prick.
I must disgree with you the only problem we have with the death penalty is the insane amount of time you get to live after a jury has found you guilty.

your wasting good tax payer money to keep alive a person found guilty of a crime worthy of death. AS for feeding them why waste are tax payer money on feeding a person we have to pay to put to sleep. feed them bread and water.

Thats what really get me this person just raped beat molested killed there kids took a ak 47 to a mall sent bio weopons though the mail and
the mainstream responce is you poor baby we cant give you the chair. i understand your momy and dady beat you and you was poor not like in school and thats why you did it.

dont worry child we will spend a 100,000 dollars a year to give you 3 meals and a bed to sleep in the rest of your life.
bah bah bah makes me puke.
Think of poor bastrds forced to work at mental homes dealing with these insane women that kill there kids. Any farm animal we would have them put to sleep to stop the spread of bad genes if nothing else.
 

cainx10a

New member
May 17, 2008
2,191
0
0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Dale_Green

Are you telling me that sick fucks like this should be allowed to live?
 

Ignignoct

New member
Feb 14, 2009
948
0
0
cainx10a said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Dale_Green

Are you telling me that sick fucks like this should be allowed to live?
He was just misunderstood.

...

But yeah, I'd say it'd be compassionate to kill him, and fun to leave him on a malnutritious diet in prison for life, nice and atrophied rape-bait. =D

"Oh how the turn... tables!..."