Tipping people who make more money than you.

[TheIceQueen]

Tipping culture is why I go to McDonald's instead of a restaurant. At least I am not expected to pay the employees' wages by the employer. And if they make enough money, or even more, I am certainly not going to tip them.

 

[JoJo]

Not tipping is fine, just let the person who is serving you that you don't plan to tip.
If there is a situation where you're not normally expected to tip (not sure about tour guides, never taken one), then it's pretty much up to you. Sometimes you don't have much money, some times it was crap service, sometimes they make more money then you apparently, what ever your reason as long as you didn't go into the situation knowing you were expected to tip then you're set.

Oh and all those who live outside of America and aren't used to tipping just Google tipping etiquette, it's not an unsolvable enigma, it's just a few weird cultural quarks that work for us.

Now if you're visiting and suddenly found yourself becoming a social justice warrior and want to fight against the blight that is tipping then grow a par of balls and let your waitress or bellhop know you don't plan to tip them before they provide the service, then you don't come off as an cheap ass and you get to save your dollar or what ever you planned to tip them.

Sure you'll get shitty service, but you've taken one for the team in the on-going battle against tipping.

Edit: Holy shit, do you guys really not understand whats expected with tipping? It took me less then a minute to find the answer on Google. Your grandparents broke Hitler's encription device and you can't even figure out that you're expected to tip 15% after a good meal? For fucks sake.

I strongly advise you NOT to tell the person you dont plan on tipping. Especially in the food service industry. They will take it very seriously and you should expect some questionable food if you do that. I have seen this happen in multiple places.

The people serving you are making minimum wage and (For a lot of them) dont really care about their jobs. I would not suggest getting on their bad side before they serve you.

Either tell them you're not tipping or tip, pulling a bullshit stunt like accepting service when you know you're expected to tip with the full intention of not tipping is a bullshit disingenuous move. Sure you'll get shit service and some spit in your food, but you saved a buck and fought the good fight against tipping.
You can't have your cake and eat it too, be a man about not tipping.

Yeah, no. The customer isn't required to pay an extra fee to get an acceptable service, put it this way. What would you call it if your mailman started demanding an extra fee or else he'd drop your parcels on your path, or your doctor put you right at the back of the waiting list for important surgery unless you pay an extra fee, or your kid's teacher would give him crap grades unless you passed some money under the desk every term? That's right, bribery. The moment tips becomes demanded for an acceptable service rather than being a voluntary custom like they're intended to be, they're bribes pure and simple.

 

[Random Argument Man]

Look man, I tip. I don't do it because it's a bullshit system. It's not obligatory thing to do in Canada. I tip because waiters are people who are, most of the time, working for a shitty job in a high pressure environment. I've tipped on shitty meals. I've tipped when I sat next to a crying baby. I've tipped to multiple occasions where it wasn't expected of me. Why? Because it's not the waiter's fault if something is out of their control.

Do you know how many times I've had a summer job and people were shitty to me despite trying my best to accommodate? Way too many times! Do you know how it feels when a customer gives you a helping hand when he/she sees I'm having a hard time? It made my day way better.

Besides, it's a small contribution to help someone. Is it really that damn too much to ask!?

 

[fenrizz]

To some extent, that is right. However, there are tip-based jobs that do earn minimum wage, but most of that minimum wage goes into supporting the job itself. For instance, a pizza delivery guy probably earns minimum wage, but that just manages to cover gas and maybe a few wear-and-tear costs on his car. Tips are basically his wage for doing anything outside of just trying to keep a job.

So you're telling me that an average pizza delivery guy don't have a company car?
He actually has to use his private car AND cover the expences for doing so himself?

Wow, I mean...
That's just absurd!

OT:
I tip when in countries where the social convention is to tip.
I also usually leave any kind of change as a tip.

Some places even include a 10% tip on the bill that is not optional.
This backfired on one place I ate though.
The food was excellent, and the manager drove a 30minute round trip to aquire a cake I had wanted.
The cake in question was on the menu though, but they were all out.

I light of this glorious service I had made up my mind to tip rather handsomely (240TYL on a 180TYL bill, just shy of 35%).
But alas, my bill arrives and included a 10% mandatory tip, so not extra tip that night.

 

[The Bucket]

Not tipping is fine, just let the person who is serving you that you don't plan to tip.
If there is a situation where you're not normally expected to tip (not sure about tour guides, never taken one), then it's pretty much up to you. Sometimes you don't have much money, some times it was crap service, sometimes they make more money then you apparently, what ever your reason as long as you didn't go into the situation knowing you were expected to tip then you're set.

Oh and all those who live outside of America and aren't used to tipping just Google tipping etiquette, it's not an unsolvable enigma, it's just a few weird cultural quarks that work for us.

Now if you're visiting and suddenly found yourself becoming a social justice warrior and want to fight against the blight that is tipping then grow a par of balls and let your waitress or bellhop know you don't plan to tip them before they provide the service, then you don't come off as an cheap ass and you get to save your dollar or what ever you planned to tip them.

Sure you'll get shitty service, but you've taken one for the team in the on-going battle against tipping.

Edit: Holy shit, do you guys really not understand whats expected with tipping? It took me less then a minute to find the answer on Google. Your grandparents broke Hitler's encription device and you can't even figure out that you're expected to tip 15% after a good meal? For fucks sake.

I strongly advise you NOT to tell the person you dont plan on tipping. Especially in the food service industry. They will take it very seriously and you should expect some questionable food if you do that. I have seen this happen in multiple places.

The people serving you are making minimum wage and (For a lot of them) dont really care about their jobs. I would not suggest getting on their bad side before they serve you.

Either tell them you're not tipping or tip, pulling a bullshit stunt like accepting service when you know you're expected to tip with the full intention of not tipping is a bullshit disingenuous move. Sure you'll get shit service and some spit in your food, but you saved a buck and fought the good fight against tipping.
You can't have your cake and eat it too, be a man about not tipping.

Who is employing the worker, me or the restaurant? How do you find it acceptable for a worker to give bad service to someone who's paying their wages by eating at the restaurant? And how could someone who'd do that think they deserve extra money?

 

[RicoADF]

she's probably paid (according to people i talk to ) around the 15$/hour mark , as well as her travel expenses ( food, water, hotel)

But how many hours is she able to work? Tours can only run at specific times. Hotel expenses lead me to believe she travels for days at a time with a group so she might just get paid a weekly salary which might not be that much. And while food and a hotel is a nice perk, it won't exactly pay rent. Especially in a place like New York

I dont get this obsession with tipping in America

I don't get why people outside America are so annoyed about it. Give a waiter or waitress $2 or $3 on a $20 meal isn't that much

It's rather simple, you've paid for your meal/service/item, why should they then expect me to pay the employee's salary too. That's not my job, my job as a customer is to pay for what the business is selling, it's their job to pay their employee's a reasonable wage. That's not to say I'm against tipping 100%, I have no problems giving a tip when someone goes out of their way to provide an extra bit of service above their duties, but it shouldn't be expected nor relied apon.

That said the US has ridiculous minimum wages, I'd never get out of bed for a job that offered anything less than $20/hr yet I often hear of people getting a lousy $10-15. You guys really need to sort that shit out.

 

[Signa]

I still feel bad for calculating a wrong tip for a waiter in New Orleans in 2005 This is what tip shaming culture has come to...

I think tip shaming is a big part of the issue that no one bothers talking about. It's my money, and my opinion of the service that determines a tip, not the culture of the country that I'm being served in.

Generally, I will gladly tip just to be nice, but if anyone tries some bullshit over the course of the meal, I'm not going to pay extra on top of my bill. I ate at a burger joint a few years ago that didn't accept any sort of card transactions, but they had an ATM outside that they owned that would charge you for transactions. I didn't have enough cash to cover my meal, so I had to borrow a few bucks from my sister-in-law. Ultimately, the waiter didn't get tipped because they had a stupid policy. I feel a little bad about it, because it's not like it was our waiter's fault, but because of the system that was set up, I'd be getting charged to pay for the meal, and then I'd be charging myself again just to give the customary token to the waiter. That just wasn't fair to me at all either. Maybe if there were some signs posted, so that I would have known before I ordered that I wouldn't be able to pay with my card, things would have been different.

 

[elvor0]

Not tipping is fine, just let the person who is serving you that you don't plan to tip.
If there is a situation where you're not normally expected to tip (not sure about tour guides, never taken one), then it's pretty much up to you. Sometimes you don't have much money, some times it was crap service, sometimes they make more money then you apparently, what ever your reason as long as you didn't go into the situation knowing you were expected to tip then you're set.

Oh and all those who live outside of America and aren't used to tipping just Google tipping etiquette, it's not an unsolvable enigma, it's just a few weird cultural quarks that work for us.

Now if you're visiting and suddenly found yourself becoming a social justice warrior and want to fight against the blight that is tipping then grow a par of balls and let your waitress or bellhop know you don't plan to tip them before they provide the service, then you don't come off as an cheap ass and you get to save your dollar or what ever you planned to tip them.

Sure you'll get shitty service, but you've taken one for the team in the on-going battle against tipping.

Edit: Holy shit, do you guys really not understand whats expected with tipping? It took me less then a minute to find the answer on Google. Your grandparents broke Hitler's encription device and you can't even figure out that you're expected to tip 15% after a good meal? For fucks sake.

I strongly advise you NOT to tell the person you dont plan on tipping. Especially in the food service industry. They will take it very seriously and you should expect some questionable food if you do that. I have seen this happen in multiple places.

The people serving you are making minimum wage and (For a lot of them) dont really care about their jobs. I would not suggest getting on their bad side before they serve you.

Either tell them you're not tipping or tip, pulling a bullshit stunt like accepting service when you know you're expected to tip with the full intention of not tipping is a bullshit disingenuous move. Sure you'll get shit service and some spit in your food, but you saved a buck and fought the good fight against tipping.
You can't have your cake and eat it too, be a man about not tipping.

Er no. When I've worked as a waiter, I didn't expect every single person to tip me as baseline, nobody does, the point of a tip is that it's a tip for extra good service, not the bare minimum. I'd expect a tip if I went above and beyond, not just for doing the thing I'm employed and PAID to fucking do.

On the flip side, I'll tip a waiter if they did an extra good job, not just for turning up, that's their job and their employer pays them for it, and they HAVE to cover the minium wage if they don't make it up in tips. I'm a customer, I'm not there to pay their wages or pay for them to go down the pub. So they lose nothing by me not tipping them, but I get crap service and spit in my food if I tell them I'm not tipping them. Saying "I'm not tipping you" makes you look like a real ****. The only way it would be "teasing them" if you kept implying your were going to tip them then didn't.

Frankly, I can have my cake an eat it, mainly because I paid for it.Some of that money then goes to the waiter.

 

[Robert Marrs]

I only tip waiters, bartenders or maids for hotels. I don't do tip jars. If you make a normal wage you don't get tips. Waiters and bartenders over here in the states make less than minimum wage most of the time so they depend on tips. That said if I get crappy service you get zero tip. If you depend on tips you better work like it because I won't tip someone who doesn't deserve it.

 

[Ragnar47183]

she's probably paid (according to people i talk to ) around the 15$/hour mark , as well as her travel expenses ( food, water, hotel)

But how many hours is she able to work? Tours can only run at specific times. Hotel expenses lead me to believe she travels for days at a time with a group so she might just get paid a weekly salary which might not be that much. And while food and a hotel is a nice perk, it won't exactly pay rent. Especially in a place like New York

I dont get this obsession with tipping in America

I don't get why people outside America are so annoyed about it. Give a waiter or waitress $2 or $3 on a $20 meal isn't that much

It's rather simple, you've paid for your meal/service/item, why should they then expect me to pay the employee's salary too. That's not my job, my job as a customer is to pay for what the business is selling, it's their job to pay their employee's a reasonable wage. That's not to say I'm against tipping 100%, I have no problems giving a tip when someone goes out of their way to provide an extra bit of service above their duties, but it shouldn't be expected nor relied apon.

That said the US has ridiculous minimum wages, I'd never get out of bed for a job that offered anything less than $20/hr yet I often hear of people getting a lousy $10-15. You guys really need to sort that shit out.

I agree but the bit about minimum wage is a little off.

It entirely depends on where you live as to what kind of wage is acceptable. Outside of the city of Atlanta, for example, one person can live off of the minimum wage rate of $7.25 as long as they are working full time. Living inside the city or north of the city you would need to make more to live off of.

It changes from state to state and city to city as to what is or isnt acceptable. Here $20.00 an hour is considered the wage for a skilled worker like an HVAC worker who need to go to school to get a license and what not. For an entry level position that would be a ludicrous amount and would force a lot of business' to artificially raise their prices.

Just to give people an idea how the business side of things work, every paycheck you get you have an income tax taken out for both federal and state. Every penny that is taken out of the employees check, the employer has to match. So a business who has 6 people working for them would be paying roughly 800 bucks just on the income tax. Added to the 4800 they would be paying for labor.

On top of that business are forced to pay for separate taxes on things like workmen comp which will number in the thousands.

If they were to all of the sudden have to pay their employees at a higher rate, these other taxes and fees go up as well. You cant just factor the increase of the labor rate changing from 7.25 to 10 an hour by saying, "the company only has to pay 2.75 an hour extra!" For most business labor is already about 45% of the total income for the company. If you were to do this prices would be raised across the board to make up the difference and the minimum rate workers would be in the same situation. There is a reason why even though the minimum wage is much higher in places like calafornia, the workers live at about the same standard of quality because the cost of living goes up as well.

 

[Ragnar47183]

I dont get this obsession with tipping in America. In the UK we dont really bother with it.

It's become a bit of an institution really. See it allows employers in the service industry to pay less than minimum wage. OF course the benefit to the employee is that wages below a certain amount are tax exempt (no income tax) and can allow you to still make use of government assistance.

SO they work for less and make up the difference in tips and everyone wins.. except the customer. WHo basically is paying an unlisted surcharge. In short you more or less have to add 10% to what you order if you plan on ordering.

See Americans, out in the rest of the world the idea of Tipping is a little different. You don't get a tip for doing you job you get a tip for doing your job exceptionally. Meaning, tips are earned, not an entitlement. That's how I was raised and That's my stand.

If I'm not smiling when I receive that bill, you ain't getting a tip.

I agree you with but have to correct the first part.

Tips are considered a taxable income and must be reported. The only time your income is tax exempt is if you make less than a certain amount in a year (dependent on state.) For Georgia I believe this amount is $5,600 but im not 100% sure on that.

Since tips do count as a taxable income they will be considered when you apply for any kind of government assistance program.

Also the average 'expected' tip now-a-days is 15-20%. 10% would be considered low.

Okay that was informative.
But wait..does that mean that the employers keep a record of how much each employee earns in tips? because as far as I can tell , declaring how much you made in tips is more or less left to the honor system.


And as for 15%-20%... I'm sorry but unless that waitress gave me a shoulder massage and sang Queen's 'Bicycle' while I ate...I'm sorry they ain't getting 20%. Fucks sake I've worked sales jobs that don't give that much commission.

I'm sorry Pizza delivery guy but the speed at which you would have to drive to earn a 20% tip would probably leave at the very least a sonic boom.

Yes. Generally how tips work is the tips go to the employer and then are handed out to the staff. Mostly because the employer would have to make up the difference if their wage was to low. Hiding your tips from your employer is usually grounds for termination.

Because tips are considered taxable you see a lot of business' saying that they do not accept tips. If you ever wondered why, then there ya go. It would mean the employer would be paying more in taxes due to tips without seeing any profit of it themselves.

I also dont agree with a 'baseline' tip percentage. I always tip what i feel they deserved. For things like hair cuts I only tip if they did a great job or they were fun to talk to. For walk in restaurants (where you dont actually sit down and get served like Moes, or carryout) I dont leave a tip.

For standard sit down places like Ihop or Applebees I will leave a $1 tip every time I am served outside of when they take my order or deliver my food. Everywhere else I tip based on service and how much I feel they deserve for what they did.

 

[the_retro_gamer]

I tip if the service is excellent. I don't tip when the service was just average. Now for a restaurant/waiter/waitress EXPECTS a tip out of me, then I definitively will not tip then. The worst is when the restaurant includes the tip on the bill. I did not chose if this service is worthy of a tip so why are you just assuming how much (or if) I'm going to tip.

A tip should be something to reward excellent service which in turn that money incentive continues that excellent service, not something you should get for just doing what you were hired for.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

Edit: Holy shit, do you guys really not understand whats expected with tipping? It took me less then a minute to find the answer on Google. Your grandparents broke Hitler's encription device and you can't even figure out that you're expected to tip 15% after a good meal? For fucks sake.

The ettiquite changes in every country. In the UK it's 10% if you approve of the service. The reason we don't bother searching for it in Google is because we simply don't give a damn. We disagree with the absurd tipping culture of the US and would rather state that. Why should someone elses cultural norm (not rule or law) dictate what I give to people whom I think deserve it?

EDIT:

Massage, hair and other services
In the UK the price you pay for a spa treatment is all-inclusive. You are not expected to secrete money somewhere about your person in order to tip your masseur!

I just read this... Oh. My. God. You guys are just animals!

 

[Cruickshank]

I still feel bad for calculating a wrong tip for a waiter in New Orleans in 2005 This is what tip shaming culture has come to...

at the expense of looking like a clueless tourist should i ever visit America (i plan to at some point in the future), im just going to avoid the whole tipping culture entirely, why should someone feel ashamed for not paying extra on top of the bill? if a meal costs $20 then thats all im paying and damn the dirty looks i may get.

 

[Treeinthewoods]

I still feel bad for calculating a wrong tip for a waiter in New Orleans in 2005 This is what tip shaming culture has come to...

at the expense of looking like a clueless tourist should i ever visit America (i plan to at some point in the future), im just going to avoid the whole tipping culture entirely, why should someone feel ashamed for not paying extra on top of the bill? if a meal costs $20 then thats all im paying and damn the dirty looks i may get.

Servers have to tip out their bussers and bar tenders a percentage of their sales, if you don't leave at least some money as a tip you are actually taking money away from your server since your meal boosted their sales.

If they raised minimum wages the food would cost more, all the income would be taxed as well. Rather than pay more for the meal and see the government taking more from a person on the low income scale I'd rather keep the prices low and tip some money that the server (hopefully) is smart enough to not bother declaring so they can use it to get by or even save up for future plans.

 

[J.McMillen]

To some extent, that is right. However, there are tip-based jobs that do earn minimum wage, but most of that minimum wage goes into supporting the job itself. For instance, a pizza delivery guy probably earns minimum wage, but that just manages to cover gas and maybe a few wear-and-tear costs on his car. Tips are basically his wage for doing anything outside of just trying to keep a job.

So you're telling me that an average pizza delivery guy don't have a company car?
He actually has to use his private car AND cover the expences for doing so himself?

Wow, I mean...
That's just absurd!

Actually it's not. First off, some places would need a fleet of cars. I use to work at a sandwich shop and during lunch we usually had at least a dozen drivers delivering orders. I've even heard of pizza places that would have 25-30 drivers on busy nights. That's a lot of cars to buy and maintain. Second, the company would have to pay for all the insurance for each car. Finally, there's the fact that insurance companies usually don't want to cover anyone under 25 on a company vehicle, so there goes all your college workers.


Here's one thing I did learn from said sandwich shop. If you order lunch at work, always tip the driver. Drivers may not remember you specifically, but they usually remember how the people at a particular business tip. During the lunch rush many times the drivers left with more than one delivery, want to guess what order usually got delivered last? That's right, businesses with bad tippers usually got delivered last. Some places were so notorious that nobody wanted to do the delivery unless they could take a second one to someplace where they might get at least an average tip.

So if you order lunch for deliver at work, how much you tip isn't just a reflection on you but also your co-workers and the business you work for. This also applies if you go out wearing anything that identifies where you work (uniform, badge, etc...). Servers and delivery drivers not only remember, they talk to each other. They know who to take extra care of and who isn't worth more than the minimum effort. You may not think it's right, but that's life.

 

[TakerFoxx]

Look man, I tip. I don't do it because it's a bullshit system. It's not obligatory thing to do in Canada. I tip because waiters are people who are, most of the time, working for a shitty job in a high pressure environment. I've tipped on shitty meals. I've tipped when I sat next to a crying baby. I've tipped to multiple occasions where it wasn't expected of me. Why? Because it's not the waiter's fault if something is out of their control.

Do you know how many times I've had a summer job and people were shitty to me despite trying my best to accommodate? Way too many times! Do you know how it feels when a customer gives you a helping hand when he/she sees I'm having a hard time? It made my day way better.

Besides, it's a small contribution to help someone. Is it really that damn too much to ask!?

That's my philosophy too. My first job was six years in a coffee shop, followed by four years as a pizza delivery driver, so I have a lot of empathy for people who work those kinds of jobs. So, I tip because I feel like it's the right thing to do. =shrug=

 

[Raziel]

That said the US has ridiculous minimum wages, I'd never get out of bed for a job that offered anything less than $20/hr yet I often hear of people getting a lousy $10-15. You guys really need to sort that shit out.

LOL, where I live a HUGE percentage of people earn only min wage, $7.50, and if thats not bad enough min wage jobs aren't full time. Here they are usually 8-15 a week. AND the schedule is NOT fixed. Its more like this week we'll schedule you for these 2 days and we might cancel on you if its slow, and you call us these other 3 days to see if we want you to come in. Now try and get 3 of these jobs at the same time to see if you can even come close to 40 hours a week.

And then there is the commute issue. My area has buses, but they don't run even 30 minutes or anything. So good luck getting to work at random times. And having a car is a crippling expense. Just gas alone for a 15 minute or more drive can eat up half your paycheck. Especially if you get called in for like 2-3 hour shifts.

And its still not easy to get these jobs. Every time there is an opening there are dozens of applications. So yeah, the companies treat you like utter crap and will fire you the first time you are a couple minutes late. Some of the business people I know work at have like 50% new employees every month.

 

[Ragnar47183]

I still feel bad for calculating a wrong tip for a waiter in New Orleans in 2005 This is what tip shaming culture has come to...

at the expense of looking like a clueless tourist should i ever visit America (i plan to at some point in the future), im just going to avoid the whole tipping culture entirely, why should someone feel ashamed for not paying extra on top of the bill? if a meal costs $20 then thats all im paying and damn the dirty looks i may get.

Servers have to tip out their bussers and bar tenders a percentage of their sales, if you don't leave at least some money as a tip you are actually taking money away from your server since your meal boosted their sales.

If they raised minimum wages the food would cost more, all the income would be taxed as well. Rather than pay more for the meal and see the government taking more from a person on the low income scale I'd rather keep the prices low and tip some money that the server (hopefully) is smart enough to not bother declaring so they can use it to get by or even save up for future plans.

Sales are not factored in to "tipouts" which is what you are talking about. A tipout is when A server gives a percentage of their tips to their bussers and bar tenders. Usually about 5%-10%. Tipouts are not factored by the amount of service that is done or how much the ticket was. The only thing that is counted is the tips given. Even still, tipouts are not a standard part of the industry and vary wildly from restaurant to restaurant.

You are not taking money from anyone by not tipping.

Regardless, as I have stated many times before in this thread, It is illegal for a business to pay less than minimum wage and less than the time worked. If the server does not at least make minimum wage with the combined total of their hourly rate and tip total, the employer HAS to pay the difference.

If no one tipped servers they would still get at least the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour which is the same fore bussers or bartenders.

I would also advise you to not tell people to not report their tips to their employer as that is the same as stealing from the company and grounds for termination. There is no tipped based business out there (at least I hope not) that lets their employees pocket cash tips.

Please do not take this persons advice and pocket tips unless you are OK with losing your job.