TLOU2 Review Thread

Gyrobot

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Finished it this week, started playing again 2 days later.

I have to say this is probably the most suicidally ambitious, insanely, delusionally risky game I've ever seen. As much as I wanted to tout that the people pissed off about it were just anti-SJW neckbeards who wouldn't recognize nuanced storytelling if it smacked them with a golf club, I can't say I don't see their points of view. The enjoyment you get from the game hinges entirely, and I have to stress completely and entirely on one incredibly risky narrative conceit, and if that doesn't work for you, the whole game falls apart like a house of cards in a hurricane. And I'm saying this as someone for whom it worked! By the end I was fully on board with Abby, and had come to see Ellie as little more than a blood-crazed detestable psycho. As it seemed to be wrapping up I was ready to declare it a masterpiece.

Cons:
- the story simply collapses under its own ambition, and isn't as clever or deep as it thinks it is
- the game hinges so much on the story that if the story doesn't work for you, the entire game won't
- absurdly padded and drawn out, 5-7 hours could have been easily cut
- the wallowing in misery and suffering without much to balance it out.
Honestly, I have seen worse...
Try playing TLOU franchise right now. If the ACAB doesn't get you, the fact that you are essentially powerless to watch Jack become a corrupt sheriff and get away with it will make you feel as bad as TLOU2 does. This is how I managed to withstand the venom and bleakness of TLOU2. Druckmann is not the first to make something crushing bleak like this without the intention to kill a franchise like Dead Space 3 Awakening did, but it has been done for indies with various degrees of success.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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@blackdiamond

Dunno why you chose to post your non reply on my profile page rather than in this thread considering it was a post here you were replying to.

Strange how you didn't bother addressing anything I actually said and just going back to the same kind of predictable boring rhetoric.
 

Houseman

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@blackdiamond

Dunno why you chose to post your non reply on my profile page rather than in this thread considering it was a post here you were replying to.

Strange how you didn't bother addressing anything I actually said and just going back to the same kind of predictable boring rhetoric.
Either his profile will throw an error within 24 hours, or the mods are taking the 4th off... Anyone wanna bet?
 
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CriticalGaming

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Plenty of actual women in real life have chests like that, you're really coming off as a transphobe here, no there's not enough evidence for "reasonable belief", sounds like you've been spending too much time on 4chan.
I don't think transphobe means what you think it means.

It isn't homophobic or transphobic to have preferences. Nor is it trans or homophobic to criticize their characters in game. Whether that is their appearance or their actual character.

A phobia is a fear. People like you just toss phobic at people the moment they saying somethign you dont like in an effort to shut out anything they might have to say.

You can disagree with someones point. But don't try to label them as a bigot just because you don't like their opinion.

If you can't have a civil discourse, then kindly piss off.
 

MrCalavera

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CriticalGaming

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I'm curious how these compare to the sales of first TLOU in Japan.
sold 100,000 on PS4 in japan for the remaster. So it didn't do great there.

And I can't find any record of the original PS3 sales for Japan. I don't think it did super well though, it's not a Japanese-appealing story really. you never even fight off god in it.
 

BrawlMan

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And I can't find any record of the original PS3 sales for Japan. I don't think it did super well though, it's not a Japanese-appealing story really. you never even fight off god in it.
I can't speak for the remaster, I just know it sold surprisingly well on the PS3 platform. It helps that Japan loves and prefers narrative driven games. Last of Us was one of the few Western games to captivate them. Another good example is Dead Space 1 & 2. They love the shit out of Dead Space. Then again, it's practically an Aliens game, and the Japanese are more obsessed with Aliens than us.
 

Specter Von Baren

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I don't think transphobe means what you think it means.

It isn't homophobic or transphobic to have preferences. Nor is it trans or homophobic to criticize their characters in game. Whether that is their appearance or their actual character.

A phobia is a fear. People like you just toss phobic at people the moment they saying somethign you dont like in an effort to shut out anything they might have to say.

You can disagree with someones point. But don't try to label them as a bigot just because you don't like their opinion.

If you can't have a civil discourse, then kindly piss off.
 

Bartholen

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Another disappointing thing I realized only after Yahtzee mentioned it in his post-revoew stream on Youtube is that everyone talks the same way in this game, and as a result nobody has any personality. Every single character is stoically serious and stressed, with occasional bone-dry humor peppered in. The only way they differ is in how massive a dickbag they are. Lev is probably the only one that stands out, and even that's mostly down to his naivete and kindness.

The first game had a roster of very distinct and memorable characters that each showed a different way of coping with the world: Bill with his irritability and clearly going soft in the head from prolonged solitude; Henry's optimistic facade and protectiveness for Sam's sake; David with his creepiness hidden under a gentle front; Marlene with her world-weariness and desperation for a better future.

Also, my garde has already gone down to a 6/10, because I played for a bit yesterday, and about 70% of my playtime was spent just pushing forward to continue, sitting essentially in a cutscene. It's fine the first time, but seriously hurts the game's replayability.
 
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stroopwafel

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Also, my garde has already gone down to a 6/10, because I played for a bit yesterday, and about 70% of my playtime was spent just pushing forward to continue, sitting essentially in a cutscene. It's fine the first time, but seriously hurts the game's replayability.
Definitely, the game is more like an interactive movie with some gameplay. It might be a one and done deal but not every game needs to be infinitely replayable to be a memorable experience. It's not unique to TLoU2 though both these games(and arguable every Naughty Dog game) are very scripted games with superficial gameplay. They have more in common with movies than, well, videogames. If you don't like the story you don't like the game. As the kind of story TLoU2 was it definitely benefited from being interactive. It made a lot of story moments much more poignant which I feel would have been lost if the experience was solely passive.
 

Bartholen

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It's not unique to TLoU2 though both these games(and arguable every Naughty Dog game) are very scripted games with superficial gameplay.
Things is, I've completed TLOU1 at least 5 times, twice on Survivor difficulty, and never has the game's linearity or pacing really bothered me, maybe aside from the segment in the skyscrapers in Boston. The pacing in the first game is much tighter, and no section outstays its welcome, whereas in the 2nd game every section feels twice as long as it should. The opening riding segment with Dina and Ellie in the beginning is probably longer than all of TLOU1's riding sections (not counting the university level) combined, and it's by no means the last one. TLOU2 feels like it was given cart blanche for everything, and constantly forces the player through sections that might as well be cutscenes: for example, do I really need to play Dina and Ellie slooooooooowly walking to the movie theater after narrowly escaping the zombie horde? And after that the game also forces us to watch incredibly long cutscenes.
 

stroopwafel

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Things is, I've completed TLOU1 at least 5 times, twice on Survivor difficulty, and never has the game's linearity or pacing really bothered me, maybe aside from the segment in the skyscrapers in Boston. The pacing in the first game is much tighter, and no section outstays its welcome, whereas in the 2nd game every section feels twice as long as it should. The opening riding segment with Dina and Ellie in the beginning is probably longer than all of TLOU1's riding sections (not counting the university level) combined, and it's by no means the last one. TLOU2 feels like it was given cart blanche for everything, and constantly forces the player through sections that might as well be cutscenes: for example, do I really need to play Dina and Ellie slooooooooowly walking to the movie theater after narrowly escaping the zombie horde? And after that the game also forces us to watch incredibly long cutscenes.
I played TLoU1 just before TLoU2 and that felt even slower paced, espescially the last quarter of the game. TLoU2 had more trudging which I don't see as being fun on repeat playthroughs but which I enjoyed and added to the atmosphere when the environments were still unfamiliar. I often lose interest with long games let alone replay them and I definitely felt fully invested during the entire duration of TLoU2 but it is really solely because of the story and characters. That entire mix of long cutscenes, long stretches of uneventful travel, long interludes that break the flow and slow walking scripted setpieces I find generally off-putting. TLoU2 had that in abundance but I still didn't feel it had a pacing problem. Simply because I was engaged. I guess it's similar with 'filler' in games. It's not filler if it's content you actually enjoy.
 

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Also, my garde has already gone down to a 6/10, because I played for a bit yesterday, and about 70% of my playtime was spent just pushing forward to continue, sitting essentially in a cutscene. It's fine the first time, but seriously hurts the game's replayability.
Told you so.

TLOU2 feels like it was given cart blanche for everything, and constantly forces the player through sections that might as well be cutscenes: for example, do I really need to play Dina and Ellie slooooooooowly walking to the movie theater after narrowly escaping the zombie horde? And after that the game also forces us to watch incredibly long cutscenes.
 

sXeth

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Borrowed a copy before a relative sold it back off for a run through.


Starting with the quick brush on the gameplay. Well, its the same gameplay you had in the first one. Still feels kind of sluggish and stilted all in all. The big addition was the jump button, so we could add terrible platforming segments on (which further exacerbates some sections with the level design being fairly unclear on where you're meant to be going).


Our psedo-survival crafting/scavenging elements also remain unchanged. Even though they make even less sense at this point. The bulk of the game is set this time around organized settlement areas that are mostly self-sufficient (in some unexplained way). Everything in a raidus should already be looted, and for this settlements to exist, they'd have to be producing their own volumes of equipment. So besides bogging down the pacing and tension to start with, its also nonsensical. Hell, the start of the game even jams this right out when people are going on patrols and specifically being armed for their mission with only a half-dozen bullets.



Delving into the story, if this were a movie, we'd be wondering who went in and did a complete recut or reshoots. The game is constantly cutting away from its main narrative to flashbacks (most with Joel, which furthers the comparison to reshoots to add more of a popular character into a film). This basically sabotages Abby's meant-to-sympathize arcs as well. She gets introduced as the sociopath who went across multiple states to go torture and kill someone who has more or less rehabiliated (rather then presenting any kind of challenge like simply rolling up to Jackson and telling them he may have prevented a vaccine and murdered a hospital full of people (granted, even the doctor pulled a weapon on him first, and the rest were actively shooting at him).


Then hours later we get a third of a game worth of content trying to humanize this. Which is its own kind of mish-mash. She has no problem dragging her pregnant friend into danger apparently, despite this being one of the few recurring points that only the bad people kill pregnant people, and slips in sleeping with the father of said child in as well. Alongside all the spree of murder and violence that basically sets her as just kind of a hypocrite in her own mission because she runs around killing just as many possible fathers, etc.


Since our main theme is a through line of revenge being a fools errand, and only by putting the violent cycle down does one get the "good" outcomes that Abby (and Dina, arguably) do. Right through to the end we're still murdering people left and right though. Our last batch of villains (much like last time around) are given stock irredeemable qualities specifically to dehumanize them (do not take this as an endorsement of slavers, or in TLoU! where it was cannibals/possibly pedophile) so that last burst of killing after this theme is presented directly doesn't count and all.


OF course, we don't really get much conclusion. Abby not killing Dina and Ellie still is encountering all sorts of problems, and didn't even stop them going after her again. Ellie not killing Abby just dead ends, we don't see any positive outcome for her either. Tommy seems to have the best outcome of anyone, living with his wife in a safe settlement, and he's the one who drags Ellie back into the revenge thing, he never gave it up but couldn't physically do it anymore. Dina gets out of the game, but with the father of her child dead, and having lost her long-term partner in Ellie, in the process, as well as presumably having to leave the safety of Jackson to do so.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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This is just sad-


Regardless of what people think of the game, it’s pretty ironic that its themes aren’t very far removed from how some of these fanatics act like IRL. The scary part is a lot of them will breed at some point, and pass that repugnance on to their offspring.
 

BrawlMan

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This is just sad-


Regardless of what people think of the game, it’s pretty ironic that its themes aren’t very far removed from how some of these fanatics act like IRL. The scary part is a lot of them will breed at some point, and pass that repugnance on to their offspring.
Some people really have no action in their lives. Get laid assholes!