To Hell With Comments

themilo504

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When it comes to videos I think that comments are great for feedback and I find It funny that a reviewer can?t see that.

I don?t really get the point of comments in games but it?s not like it?s hurting somebody unless you try to make it a problem like you?re doing.
 

Scars Unseen

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May 7, 2009
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Damn right! Screw those scrubs with their vapid meme pasting and horrific pun generation. Not a worthwhile point to be made by any of them. It's you and me against the world!

(I'm the exception right?)
 

deathjavu

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I feel the same way about the comment sections on news sites. What, exactly, does a comment section add to a news story? The ability for random uninformed assholes to put their opinion on the same level as an actually researched story, and then for other assholes to have their shitty opinions reinforced by the first assholes.

Yes, yes, commenting on this article is ironic, let's get that joke out of the way early.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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The comments on the Escapist are relegated to a separate section of dedicated discussion (a forum if you will) and as such do not intrude as much on the media. This was true until those fucking Facebook comments were enabled. It undermines the accounts and community system. They were a horrible idea and they need to go.

As for social media content/crossover in games. It's simply embarrassing. Hang your head in shame industry.
 

jehk

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Do you think they exist for the benefit of the developer? Do you think Nintendo keep a great big leather-bound book of every comment that the users make, so that they can read every single one and put the feedback into their next game? I bloody well hope not. They'd be fools to waste the effort; they'd have to pick through an awful lot of hilarious fart pictures to find the attempts at criticism.
I kinda disagree with this part. I work for a small indie gaming studio. We've hired someone to monitor our forums and parse the "feedback". Sure there's some crap to wade through but that's why we hired someone else who's neutral (otherwise we'd all commit ritual suicide). In the end the feedback is very valuable for understanding the niche market we are targeting.

Now, I said only kinda disagree. I'm sure Nintendo gets such a massive tidal wave of shit that there's just no parsing it.
 

Dragonbums

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deathjavu said:
I feel the same way about the comment sections on news sites. What, exactly, does a comment section add to a news story? The ability for random uninformed assholes to put their opinion on the same level as an actually researched story, and then for other assholes to have their shitty opinions reinforced by the first assholes.

Yes, yes, commenting on this article is ironic, let's get that joke out of the way early.
Please. There are more opinionated, biased stories written as news articles by the day. They are well researched confirmation biases. No better than the comments section where more often than not your likely to find a commenter that points out all the holes in said article but also provide counterpoints and less biased statements.
 

Sectan

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Isn't Yahtzee basically just part of the comment section that is Vidogamez Jurnalizm?
 

Omnicrom

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Dragonbums said:
deathjavu said:
I feel the same way about the comment sections on news sites. What, exactly, does a comment section add to a news story? The ability for random uninformed assholes to put their opinion on the same level as an actually researched story, and then for other assholes to have their shitty opinions reinforced by the first assholes.

Yes, yes, commenting on this article is ironic, let's get that joke out of the way early.
Please. There are more opinionated, biased stories written as news articles by the day. They are well researched confirmation biases. No better than the comments section where more often than not your likely to find a commenter that points out all the holes in said article but also provide counterpoints and less biased statements.
Sectan said:
Isn't Yahtzee basically just part of the comment section that is Vidogamez Jurnalizm?
These combined are basically my opinion. Journalism, and no less Games Journalism is just a paid comments section. And I'm in agreement with Yahtzee, I think many comments aren't worth the digital ink they're printed with. That's why I watch only about 40% of the videos he releases these days.
 

GonzoGamer

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Sectan said:
Isn't Yahtzee basically just part of the comment section that is Vidogamez Jurnalizm?
Yea but on this site Yahtzee is always "FIRST!!!""
...so like, he wins, right?
 

nickpy

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Scrumpmonkey said:
This was true until those fucking Facebook comments were enabled. It undermines the accounts and community system. They were a horrible idea and they need to go.
This place is infected with facebook? really? I didn't think Escapist could stoop that low, I really didn't, and now I feel betrayed! Then again... I suppose it doesn't actually affect me since I have a plugin in my browser which forcibly removes all social media plugins from all websites, which is why I didn't know this place had succumbed.
 

Visteri

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Hey, Yahtzee, I know this is a comment and you probably won't read it, but just in case: you can sign up for the Feather beta on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/feather_beta]. It hides all comments. It is a great thing.
 

toastdieb

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twm1709 said:
Well, we may be twats, but at least most of us can spell "probably" ;)
Provably: With proof; in a provable manner. As in, Mr Grumbles was proving that comments sections are etc etc.
 

SoulChaserJ

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Yahtzee... Here's the solution to your problem. Step 1 find a large stick. Step 2 smash your computer with said stick. Step 3 Set the stick on fire and set it down on your couch. Step 4 Find the furthest away cave and move in. Your comment problem is now solved... You're welcome.
 

shrekfan246

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nickpy said:
Scrumpmonkey said:
This was true until those fucking Facebook comments were enabled. It undermines the accounts and community system. They were a horrible idea and they need to go.
This place is infected with facebook? really? I didn't think Escapist could stoop that low, I really didn't, and now I feel betrayed! Then again... I suppose it doesn't actually affect me since I have a plugin in my browser which forcibly removes all social media plugins from all websites, which is why I didn't know this place had succumbed.
Facebook comments on videos and articles have been around here for a while. Like, possibly since I joined or even earlier.

themilo504 said:
When it comes to videos I think that comments are great for feedback and I find It funny that a reviewer can?t see that.
The thing is, take a gander at the comments sections of most of the reviews. Any review, really, but particularly good ones are "controversial" ones like Tito's Dragon Age II/Grand Theft Auto V or Yahtzee's Super Smash Bros. Brawl, or Jim Sterling's Vanquish/The Witcher 2.

Normal reviews become filled with comments to the effect of "I agree/disagree" and occasionally get expounded upon with "And here's why". On a good day, it pretty much ends with that, maybe a bit of light-hearted joking between members.

"Controversial" reviews get blasted down with so much useless bile of "HOW COULD YOU NOT LIKE [Game]!?!?!?! RABBLERABBLERABBLE!" (or of course, "HOW COULD YOU LIKE [Game]?!!?!? RABBLERABBLERABBLE!!!") that it becomes pointless to even read them, because all you're going to see is that and the inevitable arguing between those people and the people who think the reviewer is correct and/or think they should all just calm down.

They're just echo chambers for users, and very rarely contain anything constructive for the person who created the content in question. A notable exception to this is our very own Jim Sterling, if we all recall the beginning of The Jimquisition on this website. But even then, he had to sift through hundreds of angry comments saying "Who is this arrogant fat fuck?!!?!" (many even being worded that harshly) to find the actual constructive responses because that's the reaction people immediately jumped to upon seeing something they didn't like.
 

Suicidejim

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I tend to find it depends on the site. There are some websites where I've had great and informative discussions in the comments section, and others where any attempt to imitate that success is dead before it leaves the womb.
 

JoJo

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Well, I suppose that's the reason we never see Yahtzee replying to comments on his videos. I enjoy reading comments, there's a lot of stupidity yes but there's diamonds in there if you look hard enough and you can always find someone to correct if you're feeling particularly smug that day.
 

Enlong

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Wait, the ratings system in ACIV was real? I was convinced it was a joke. Like, since you're playing a code tester for AE, of course they'd ask focus questions of you. But you're telling me those ratings are actually going back to Ubisoft?
 

Batou667

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First! Twenty-first!

Like if you're reading this comment in 2013! "Because on a comedy video, the very first, highest upvoted comment on every single one, inevitably, is someone quoting the funniest bit." Haha, classic, and still a better love story than Twilight! Can I get a like for no reason? Screw Justin Bieber!

B
R
A
S
I
L
 

RA92

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*Curling up into a fetal position*

So this is what developers feel when they are criticized by Yahtzee...

OT: I'm afraid Mr Croshaw is painting with quite a broad stroke. Comment sections can be incredibly helpful. If a game is bad, I usually find people providing links to fixes/mods or alternative games of the same genre. As for news posts, you usually have people providing updates/conflicting news, which can be helpful for the article writers themselves.

And then there are the horrible, horrible puns.
 

omega 616

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"The practice, that is, of allowing anyone to speak their mind about a piece of content and leave it for all to see." ....Glass houses.

Is it slightly odd I am commenting on an article about how shitty comments are?

Anyway, comments are for people to discuss the content, "this is what I think of ..." and for people to have a conversation, though on things like youtube, where you have a set character limit, having a discussion is hard.

For content creators it must be a nightmare to drudge through endless crap, such as "this" or a couple of hundred "first" comments.
 

Dragonbums

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What the hell kind of rant is this?

This basically says fuck comments because mine is clearly superior. Have you ever thought that there are other journalists out there who think your own articles are nothing but paid trash content on a website? And what is stopping the unwashed commenter pleebs from simply posting their own stuff on their own blogs.


If find it funny that you have people hating Anita for say- blocking comments on Youtube on her videos, yet here we are all more or less agreeing with you that we should admonish comments because you don't deem them worthy. This is especially true in the journalism business where feedback is pretty damn important.

Your entire article basically says- My words are more important than yours because I get paid to do it. Yours means nothing therefore I don't want to see it.

You then proceed to complain even more about the stupid comments feature in SM3DW. If it really bothered you that much, just turn it off.

Likewise, if you really hated the Gampad for Pikmin, then use the blasted Wii mote instead of complaining about how annoying it is when you had the option to use an alternative the entire time you played the game for review.
 

Dr.Awkward

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SM3DW's comment system is pretty much where comment systems cross the line. Nintendo has a track record of not understanding how to use the Internet or how to use it well, and it's just another misstep in this long line of mistakes. Remember the modem for the Gamecube? You were more likely to find the one that was designed for 56k dial-up, and those days people were migrating to broadband and Ethernet cable.
 

Phrozenflame500

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The way I see it: don't read comments unless you're prepared for shit. On certain videos with decent communities comments can be genuinely entertaining, but 90% of it is garbage.

But I don't think they should be removed outright, just not shoved in your face. It should be made clear to everyone how terrible they are, and that most people would want to avoid them, but not fully removed if just to appease the cries of censorship that will inevitably occur.
 

Mahoshonen

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Enlong said:
Wait, the ratings system in ACIV was real? I was convinced it was a joke. Like, since you're playing a code tester for AE, of course they'd ask focus questions of you. But you're telling me those ratings are actually going back to Ubisoft?
With everything being online, I'm pretty sure Ubisoft at least has the ability to collect the data if it wanted to. And yeah, I took the rating system to just be meta-commentary about the state of the games industry, just like the letters and database arguments regarding historical accuracy versus entertainment. If you don't buy that the developers are that sophisticated, than it's just another irritant.

And for those crying hypocrisy, the difference is just as you put it. He gets paid. Ergo his words have monetary value. I'm not being paid to type this comment. So by comparison what I am writing is worthless. It's not hard.

And do think that the Escapist in particular can use a good fumigating.
 

Sheo_Dagana

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Scrumpmonkey said:
The comments on the Escapist are relegated to a separate section of dedicated discussion (a forum if you will) and as such do not intrude as much on the media. This was true until those fucking Facebook comments were enabled. It undermines the accounts and community system. They were a horrible idea and they need to go.

As for social media content/crossover in games. It's simply embarrassing. Hang your head in shame industry.
I have to agree completely with you here. Facebook has been one of the most detrimental influences for websites, video games, and the whole world really. Not everything that someone has to say is important and Facebook has allowed people to think that everything they have to say is more important than anything else. And now the rest of the world is encouraging them by letting them use it on various websites; so now video games think that's a great idea because "that's what most people want."

The bottom line is that unless I'm playing an MMORPG (and sometimes even when I am) I'd rather not think about other people. I play games for myself and I'm guilty of using them to escape reality. Unfortunately, it won't be long before we see video games embrace this bullshit completely and every game will have a little window that streams your friends' accomplishments to shove in your face. Who gives a shit if a friend just unlocked an achievement in Madden 20XX? I'm trying to play Bioshock.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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What worries me more than comments, is that they're being disabled on major youtube channels. While I understand that the biggest reason is scamming and bad links, some channels like Nerdcubed prefer not to have them at all and are just sick of of them.

I will not pretend to tell these creators that they should have them enabled or that it will even do any good, but it's a short term solution at best. Without feedback, they're closing off a vital source that will inevitably change the content, for better or worse, the latter which the creator should be able to forsee and avoid.

Dragonbums said:
Please. There are more opinionated, biased stories written as news articles by the day. They are well researched confirmation biases. No better than the comments section where more often than not your likely to find a commenter that points out all the holes in said article but also provide counterpoints and less biased statements.
Agreed. I get more out of articles when they're tempered by comments and different perspectives, even if you have to sift through the pointless and downright shit posts that some make. The bias is so strong that you can practically see people conform in a very scary way to whatever Moviebob or Jim Sterling says, without thinking.

I enjoyed your second comment as well, by the way. Just keep in mind that it is just a rant.
 

Mike Fang

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Another EP where Yahtzee shows us that side of himself that proves that the hyperbole he uses to put down his own audience is, in reality, exactly how he feels. No, people, he's not just saying those things because he's trying to be entertaining, he really DOES think 99% of us are shit. He thinks it of me and he thinks it of you. Yes, YOU, whoever-is-reading-this-at-the-time, don't think your on his special not-shit-list, because you are, along with the rest of us. It's times like this I really feel misgivings about watching his stuff. He's entertaining and often informative, but by God, he can also be bitter and hateful.
 

Objectable

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"He hates unfunny hecklers?"
"His self loathing must be starting to manifest!"
"DOHOHOOHOHOHOHOHO"
 

Mikeyfell

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You'd think this article wouldn't have any comments on it...
Crap I'm part of the problem

There I go extending the joke to death just like the fucking twat I am. Yahtzee was right about me...
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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nickpy said:
Scrumpmonkey said:
This was true until those fucking Facebook comments were enabled. It undermines the accounts and community system. They were a horrible idea and they need to go.
This place is infected with facebook? really? I didn't think Escapist could stoop that low, I really didn't, and now I feel betrayed! Then again... I suppose it doesn't actually affect me since I have a plugin in my browser which forcibly removes all social media plugins from all websites, which is why I didn't know this place had succumbed.
The reason many sites feel the need to have these features is NOT for users. Having facebook, twitter, google plus, youtube etc etc plugins and buttons apparently increases your sites visibility on the web. It's a promotional tool websites feel forced to accept because if you don't kneel before the gatekeepers of the internet that there is a fear your site will magically turn into a wasteland unless someone can +1 your post.

You can't really admit to using and encourage using script extensions that block certain content on this site. So be careful :p
 

-Dragmire-

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Well... um, nice commentary on the state of things displayed on the internet for all to see...
 

Dragonbums

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Smilomaniac said:
I enjoyed your second comment as well, by the way. Just keep in mind that it is just a rant.
I know it's a rant. But I personally think it's a very selfish, self centered, stupid rant where he doesn't even really acknowledge that perhaps his stuff may be deemed by others to be a waste of digital ink and he should shut up.

That's the vibe I get from his article.
 

Atmos Duality

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Yahtzee said:
Of all the hideous manifestations of Web 2.0 ooh-let's-all-be-friends-together huggy-muggy your-opinion-matters bullshit, it is the most egregious and the most pointless.
Odd, the general attitude towards comments I frequently see isn't "huggy-muggy your opinion matters" but the opposite, in that they're worth less than bathroom graffiti. It's why that tired cliche "Opinions are like assholes...etc" is repeated so often it's practically the mantra of the internet.

Ignoring the incredibly rank "irony" of the article...
I really do not want to see any mandatory social media horse shit in any game I play.
At best, it will be useless "noise", at worst it will be spoilers.

I avoid social media already. It's a cesspool of endless fake-friend requests, tired memes, status updates and intellectually bankrupt jabber. It's just noise; digital social noise.

The only use I can find is that maybe someone could turn social media interaction into a gameplay concept as a form of self-authoring meta-commentary; that is, base a game itself on social media and comments.

-Dragmire- said:
Well... um, nice commentary on the state of things displayed on the internet for all to see...
The hypocrisy of the article is delightful isn't it?
Then again, hypocrisy doesn't necessarily mean he's wrong either. (it's a logical fallacy to use hypocrisy alone against someone's argument, but nobody on the internet seems to remember that nor care.)
 

Quantum Glass

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Kinda a long-winded way to say, "Here's something I don't like."

I mean, I'm not particularly fond of mayonnaise, but I probably wouldn't write an article going into the details of why I dislike it, or alternative condiments that I enjoy. Maybe a paragraph, if I were in the mood.
 

DeaDRabbiT

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deathjavu said:
I feel the same way about the comment sections on news sites. What, exactly, does a comment section add to a news story? The ability for random uninformed assholes to put their opinion on the same level as an actually researched story, and then for other assholes to have their shitty opinions reinforced by the first assholes.

Yes, yes, commenting on this article is ironic, let's get that joke out of the way early.
Commenting on news stories, is no different than having a discussion about a news article on the train when people used to read the same newspaper as everyone else every day. It's an outlet for conversation and reflection.

Yes, I agree that there is a lot of stupid on the internet, but to disparage such a wide swatch of people (as Yahtzee has here) is simply moronic.

And it's not the commenting on this article that is ironic, it's that the article itself exists in hypocrisy. It's an article full of comments about comments on articles.

*Time space barrier EXPLODED*
 

Foolery

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Yahtzee is essentially a one-man paid comment section occasionally presented in a video format.
Eh. Can't say this article bothers me. His work is centered around opinion pieces, not facts.
 

Shadow-Phoenix

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I'm used to insults like this by now but how long until we all can't take enough of others being egotistical and bullshit?.
 

AdagioBoognish

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Bob is building an army of twats to comment on your articles, videos, and Mario 3D loading screens.

Feels like Yahtzee is trolling in this one and yet his sentiment matches my one when it comes to youtube comments. I wish there was a way to keep youtube comments on subject so we could discuss some of the videos in the same way we discuss things on the escapist.
 
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Well most of my youtube comments are on LP videos and they mostly say: omg you are playing it wrong or you should have done this. I am part of the problem yay.
 

Duder Dudeson

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I don't know. I kind of like it when I see someone with a powerful voice use it to self destruct on the little things. I should probably feel bad but I don't. The best part is that from my days of trolling I know that anyone upset enough to write two pages complaining about comments is also probably obsessed enough to read this one. I waste your time Yahtz I waste it!
 

EvilRoy

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Dragonbums said:
Your entire article basically says- My words are more important than yours because I get paid to do it. Yours means nothing therefore I don't want to see it.
Thing is though, that view is basically correct. Journalism and criticism in general require a fair amount of qualification in order for it to have any weight or value.

What Yahtzee has to say automatically has more weight than any opinion of yours or mine simply because he has both a face and a name. By having both of those things he is made to be accountable for things that says, and he develops a backlog of opinions that qualify all his future opinions. So he has reason to avoid saying things that are tremendously biased or false, and we have a sizable backlog of information to go back to that might help us interpret his opinion and weight it appropriately in context to his preferences vs ours.

Earlier in the thread you mentioned that comments can be good because they can call the author out on a falsehood or bias, but the problem is that is you are choosing to question an author with a face, a name, and potentially something to lose based on the opinion of a person with no face, no name, and nothing to lose. Yes its good to question and confirm information for yourself, but you should be doing that with or without the input of some random who may or may not have any clue about what they're saying.

Hell take our own comments as an example, yours and mine. From the second half of your post I can see pretty clearly that you like Nint quite a bit, so I'm not really going to give much weight to your opinion on that particular company. Likewise when you read my comment you have to question the validity of the conclusions I'm drawing because I'm some faceless jackass with zero attachment to this account or place. I could be talking out of my ass for no reason better than "I'm bored" and you would never know.
 

Evonisia

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Games having comments sections in them is pretty crap and a major source for spoilers.

Well, I may as well contribute to this growing scourge of comments by pressing the "Post" button.

...

We all remember when Sideshow Bob used a TV to convey the message that TV is crap, right?
 

WildFire15

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I'm going to assume Yahtzee was aware of the irony of the whole article, but he has a vague point. If you look through comments sections, there's rarely much useful criticism and if developers did rely on comments boards to feedback, they'd end up making their games considerably worse then they already are.
Sometimes, something good does come out of comments sections, Miiverse included, but it does require some patients.
 

AdagioBoognish

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Duder Dudeson said:
I don't know. I kind of like it when I see someone with a powerful voice use it to self destruct on the little things. I should probably feel bad but I don't. The best part is that from my days of trolling I know that anyone upset enough to write two pages complaining about comments is also probably obsessed enough to read this one. I waste your time Yahtz I waste it!
Ha the jokes on you, buddy! Yahtzee's already has us wasting our time by discussing this. I doubt he cares about what we have to say about anything and..





Aw man.. Now I just feel bad.
 
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Hmm, I think it's sort of an honor to be considered a boring twat, beating things to death with my prick. It has a nice ring to it.

On a more serious note, I fully agree that the trend of having more and more of a social aspect to games is just dumb.

The only game I have seen handle it somewhat well is Dark Souls. Tips are always welcome in that game and there were several instances when I was actually helped by the other people instead of hindered. Part of what makes it work is the fact that people can't just write anything they want. By having all comments be a collection of pre-selected words, they are always in the context of the gameplay. Though "Need Head" and "Need Rear" would be the exceptions.
 

Callate

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Part of my problem with the "inevitable" always-on digital future is the idea that seems to come with it for a lot of publishers: that "the community" is better at entertaining itself than the creators of the content you're all allegedly there to partake in. It's at turns bizarre, crass, lazy, and downright exploitative. If it isn't "This shooter has to have a multiplayer mode, so lop off a third of your team that's trying to get the final version out and get on that in the last three months", it's "Ah, everyone's going to play the multiplayer anyway, so who cares if the single-player story wastes five hours of your life and barely functions as more than a glorified tutorial?"

Lacking a feature? Someone will mod it in. Need some cheap publicity? Raise a storm on Facebook, or only give that skin to people who Tweet their friends about it. Don't want to log into some superfluous web-site to play the game you bought? Tough, we're building a "community". How can you possibly be against a "community"? Now go back to your single-player game, and if you've neglected to toggle the right hidden sub-menu, the "community" may be invading your game at any moment.

It sometimes feels not unlike we've paid to see a comedian, only to have him sit down on the edge of the stage, wave a hand, and say, "Aw, you look like a witty bunch. Why don'cha just talk amongst yourselves."

Now, for the record, I do think feedback can be useful to creators, and I almost think it's a warning bell when a group goes out of their way to make it clear that nothing the consumers have to say is in any way respected nor will in any way effect any future releases. Once you've released your child to the public, whether it's a game or a movie or a poem or a book, you've lost a degree of ownership. Specifically, the part that says only you get to interpret what it is any more.

But I'm almost starting to think there needs to be a hurdle or two in the way of giving that feedback. You didn't go through the interview process to find out if you were qualified as a game tester, after all, and many people who leave comments fail even the most basic tests of grammar, etiquette and logic that suggest they're worth listening to at all. I'm not talking about scaling some spiked iron wall; I'm just talking about the kind of effort that used to go into looking up an address and finding a stamp. (Consarn it.) It would be nice if both we and the creators could be spared the bile of people who barely know how to set their keyboard on "Caps Lock" and click "send"; I don't doubt there are people out there in games companies whose entire job amounts to separating signal and noise or wheat and chaff, and I suspect the burn-out rate is through the roof.

And I don't think the above applies to the partitioned forums of independent groups like the Escapist, so carry on.
 

nickpy

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Oct 9, 2010
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Scrumpmonkey said:
nickpy said:
Scrumpmonkey said:
This was true until those fucking Facebook comments were enabled. It undermines the accounts and community system. They were a horrible idea and they need to go.
This place is infected with facebook? really? I didn't think Escapist could stoop that low, I really didn't, and now I feel betrayed! Then again... I suppose it doesn't actually affect me since I have a plugin in my browser which forcibly removes all social media plugins from all websites, which is why I didn't know this place had succumbed.
The reason many sites feel the need to have these features is NOT for users. Having facebook, twitter, google plus, youtube etc etc plugins and buttons apparently increases your sites visibility on the web. It's a promotional tool websites feel forced to accept because if you don't kneel before the gatekeepers of the internet that there is a fear your site will magically turn into a wasteland unless someone can +1 your post.

You can't really admit to using and encourage using script extensions that block certain content on this site. So be careful :p
Blocking social plugins will not lose the Escapist any money, so I don't see the problem. Adverts, yes, but I do not block adverts as I know the Escapist is dependent on them for income. In any case, I am morally against facebook/google+/whatever tracking my activities across the internet via the cookies they place in your browser using the social plugins, and that is the core reason I block them. If the Escapist has a problem with that, then I don't want to consume the Escapist's content. Now, if only PubSub gave the option to remove social plugins...
 

-Dragmire-

King over my mind
Mar 29, 2011
2,821
0
0
Atmos Duality said:
-Dragmire- said:
Well... um, nice commentary on the state of things displayed on the internet for all to see...
The hypocrisy of the article is delightful isn't it?
Then again, hypocrisy doesn't necessarily mean he's wrong either. (it's a logical fallacy to use hypocrisy alone against someone's argument, but nobody on the internet seems to remember that nor care.)
He's had similar articles before where he ridiculed things that he himself has done but normally he acknowledges it with a funny one liner at the end. Without that, he seemed oblivious to his own hypocrisy which stood out as more strange than the hypocrisy itself.

I wonder if this counts as satire if he worded the article intentionally in that manner...
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

New member
Aug 8, 2007
11,049
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Wow, egocentric much?

You even acknowledge it's optional, so why the fuck make a fuss about it?

I actually like the comments and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

The World does not revolve around you and I'm glad it's that way, otherwise it'd be a boring world.
 

MorganL4

Person
May 1, 2008
1,364
0
0
There are now 55 messages that the original content creator HATES... Lets keep it going..... Just how much vitriol can we generate in the man with the hat?

Come on guys, DON'T STOP NOW!!!
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

New member
Aug 8, 2007
11,049
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0
Whenever you let the Internet freely voice its opinion on something, you will get loads of bullshit.

Just look at user scores for games. There is a large group of people who only think in a binary "it's either 10/10 or it's 1/10" way.
I don't give a shit about the scores myself but I do know that there are people who won't buy a game if it has no stellar 80+ rating. And knowing that the developer of a game makes less money because of pricks who think that "I don't like it" equals a 1/10 makes me sad.
 

VinLAURiA

New member
Dec 25, 2008
184
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I respect Yahtzee as a game critic and writer, but on stuff like this he just needs to clamp his trap shut with an iron vice. I'm tired of the goddamn misanthrope gimmick and I'm not even sure where the threshold is anymore in terms of how much is "in-character." We get it, you're a wretched human being who abhors human contact.

Stop trying to drag everyone else down in your misery and take a friggin' Zoloft. You sound like House, for Christ's sake.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Aug 8, 2007
11,049
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Well I kinda see yahtzee's point, Particularly with the rather intentionally trollish, meaningless and destructive most internet comments are.

I suppose that a big part of problems come from the fact that a lot of human communication is pretty unnecesary and redundant. But this is not limited for internet, it is simply accentuated by anonymity, its like Pub / Bar / Club casual conversations, rarely does anyone get involved in very significant interactions, and most of the times the communication is limited to very superficial popular knowledge niceties that could very well be fully ignored.

It seems a bit of a problem of CONTEXT more than content, for example, Shouts and general stupid behaviour seem fine if you are in a crowd at a stadium, watching some sport, but that wouldn't really be fine anywhere else.

Likewise, We all know that in general, youtube is not the place to find stimulating intelligent conversation... (just trying to maintain a conversation in Youtube seems nearly impossible). But even if we didn't know, after an initial learning period, we learn to expect the way things work within that context.

Here's where I find a problem though. It seems rather arrogant to dismiss all opinions as completely "twatty". I feel it is a bit rich for "internet personalities" to play that card. It's a pretty relativistic observation, I know, but for someone else everyone is potentially an opinionated twat on the internet. The only real difference is the coverage and the number of followers. The truth is that It's very difficult (and sometimes pointless) to verify people's credentials online, but that doesn't immediately make comments ( and feedback as a whole ) useless or unworthy.

Clearly Yahtzee feels entitled to consider other twats from his ideological podium, but the truth is that his particular skill is in the presentation of opinions in an entertaining way, and not on the side of very provable or scientific analysis and observation. So although it is surely very entertaining, he shouldn't assume every comment that he dislikes is just the work of an entitled twat that isn't respecting -him-.
Sure, a different experience or perspective can contradict his opinion or diminish his experience, in such a way that is as potentially offensive as Yahtzee's own rhetoric. But who can really say how valuable any person's opinion or input is universally? It is a moot subjective appreciative point.

Can Yahtzee scoff and call anyone contradicting him a twat? It's kind of what makes him "famous". But in time anyone else is very much entitled to find his opinion just as stupid. Didn't he get to where he is by kind of being an opinionated twat? Some people could even enjoy comments! Scary concept, I know.

So I guess this is an ouroboros of twatyness, Yahtzee is an internet commentator, saying comments are stupid and we are commenting on the dumbness of his comment.

In the end, with the type of interactions we find nowadays, we have to learn to discriminate what information IS in fact VALUABLE to us, and is WORTH the effort. And learn that whatever we say, someone will have a problem with it, even if we simply cant understand the reasoning behind it. Its probably the biggest communicational challenge we have in the near future, discerning what information we actually want.

You, Mr. Yahtzee are rapidly becoming decreasingly relevant.
 

Imp_Emissary

Mages Rule, and Dragons Fly!
Legacy
Aug 9, 2020
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Scars Unseen said:
Damn right! Screw those scrubs with their vapid meme pasting and horrific pun generation. Not a worthwhile point to be made by any of them. It's you and me against the world!

(I'm the exception right?)
:D Come here friend!
[https://imageshack.com/i/0lbpk0g]

No hard feelings though. ;D

Got to say, Yahtzee does have a point. The comments in games really are just for the sake of people who want to make a comment.

Though, as Yahtzee also said, you can just turn them off.

As for the star things, well that is a bit more annoying.
I guess you could give everything one star, and if they ask why, say; "Because you stopped my game just to ask me what I thought of it."

Or something else.

Sorry, this comment is meaningless. ;p
 

Thanatos2k

New member
Aug 12, 2013
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Comments are fine if you seek them out. Then you can't lament their stupidity because you asked for it. It's when they're shoved in your face without your consent when the rage sets in.

Also I disagree with the fact that a joke cannot be added to. Referential humor is in my opinion the best, when you can call back to an earlier gag to multiply the comedy, either in an expected or completely unexpected way.
 

JenSeven

Crazy person! Avoid!
Oct 19, 2010
695
0
0
Thank you Yahtzee.
I couldn't agree more.

However there is another kind of "comment" that I truly despise.
You see, I'm Dutch. And our political system is the truest version of democracy.
Not the American version where it's simply a dictatorship shared between two political parties with colliding interests.
No, in The Netherlands everyone can basically form a political party.
Everyone can vote and all the votes are counted in total and distributed over all the parties.
Each party gets a number of seats determined by the percentage of votes.

As you can see, pretty fair and all, and I think most people would see this as a fair system.

However, you forget that about 60% of the population is of lower intelligence (basically, an IQ rating below 90).
And these people also vote. Without having the mental capacity to actually understand most of what is being said or understanding what they are voting for.
In the polls, currently, the biggest party is a rightwinged nutter.
All he does is shout and try to get media attention. There is no substance there except for vileness, megalomania and greed.
And we allow these people to vote?

I say, purge all comments and get someone to sort out democracy, sub-intellectial beings, nutters and megalomaniacs.
 

Imp_Emissary

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Dragonbums said:
Smilomaniac said:
I enjoyed your second comment as well, by the way. Just keep in mind that it is just a rant.
I know it's a rant. But I personally think it's a very selfish, self centered, stupid rant where he doesn't even really acknowledge that perhaps his stuff may be deemed by others to be a waste of digital ink and he should shut up.

That's the vibe I get from his article.
<.< Yahtzee is being a bit "nihilistic" in this article.

Though, I think he does know that. He did say in it; "And I know you can turn the comments off in 3D World, but if I'd done that I wouldn't have been able to complain about them."

That said, it still was a bit mean spirited.

Although I still had fun with it. I can understand why others wouldn't.
 

Thanatos2k

New member
Aug 12, 2013
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I do hope that Yahtzee realized that what he wrote basically says "All comments are stupid...except for mine."
 

Covarr

PS Thanks
May 29, 2009
1,559
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Eh, comments can be useful. Constructive feedback is a very good thing, and even relevant questions are appropriate for a comments section. The fact that most comments suck isn't an inherent problem with comments, but an inherent problem with people.

For an example of Miiverse done correctly, look at Super Metroid.

P.S. Thanks
 

teamcharlie

New member
Jan 22, 2013
215
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Wow. Congrats on being so important that you don't have to listen to your fans anymore, Yahtzee. You must get sweet cell phone reception in that ivory tower of yours.
 

Kingjackl

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Nov 18, 2009
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Jesus Christ, how are old are you again Yahtzee? I reckon someone just needs to drink their milk and have a lie down.

I can't judge the comments on Super Mario World because I haven't played it and don't know how potentially distracting/intrusive they are, but it sounds to me like you're having a big ***** about nothing. Youtube comments are dumb? Yeah they certainly can be, but if you don't like them then why are you looking at them in the first place? I'm looking at one in the other tab right now, you can't even see the damn comments unless you scroll down, there's a split second delay before they actually start loading and there's enough space on the other side of the screen where the suggested videos are that you can avert your eyes if it would really kill you not to do otherwise.

Also, I like that you're arrogant enough to decry Internet comments when they are realistically your only means of receiving any form of criticism for your own work. Unless there's some paid, professional Zero Punctuation reviewer giving weekly criticism of each new episode, how are you supposed to know what you did wrong and what you did right without looking at online comments? Just because you've decided you're flawless and above reproach, doesn't mean everyone is, and plenty of Internet contributors can benefit from user comments. Just look at the Jimquisition; imagine if Jim Sterling hadn't originally listened to the people on the Escapist and used that feedback to make the show better. It wouldn't have been as successful as it is now, I can tell you that.

It's the same for games as well; yeah, Ubisoft aren't going to seriously evaluate every rating for every Assassin's Creed IV mission, but even the Metacritic-style five star/one star rating split can work as a binary way of telling what missions people liked and disliked. If the ratings are helpful, then they can use them to make future games and DLC better. If they're not, they'll just not put user ratings in the game, and you get to live a slightly happier oh-so-miserable Brisbane inner-city-trendy existence.
 

immortalfrieza

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Sectan said:
Isn't Yahtzee basically just part of the comment section that is Vidogamez Jurnalizm?
Exactly. It's unbelievably hypocritical of Yahtzee to put down comments when his JOB is for all intents and purposes to comment on video games.

Besides, it's easy enough to simply ignore the idiots and trolls and only focus on the worthwhile comments instead. I have seen plenty of comments on Youtube, the Escapist, or wherever that are just as good or even better than the video or article that it's commenting on, and for that reason alone I consider comments worth it.
 

SweetShark

Shark Girls are my Waifus
Jan 9, 2012
5,147
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Guys, don't get so seriously with Yantzee opinion.
Like he said in an old comment/post, he use a lot of comedy and irony to make things more interesting.
He hate comments, but it doesn't mean we are all twats.
 

Yopaz

Sarcastic overlord
Jun 3, 2009
6,092
0
0
Mike Fang said:
Another EP where Yahtzee shows us that side of himself that proves that the hyperbole he uses to put down his own audience is, in reality, exactly how he feels. No, people, he's not just saying those things because he's trying to be entertaining, he really DOES think 99% of us are shit. He thinks it of me and he thinks it of you. Yes, YOU, whoever-is-reading-this-at-the-time, don't think your on his special not-shit-list, because you are, along with the rest of us. It's times like this I really feel misgivings about watching his stuff. He's entertaining and often informative, but by God, he can also be bitter and hateful.
So there's no reason to believe that he's generalizing and knows that he is? We should take this at face value that he loathes each and every one of us? I have to say I have been having a similar rant built up in me for a long time. I have this habit to downvote comments on Youtube simply being quotes from the video or bad jokes based on stuff from the video. More annoying is the ones who are deliberately making comments in the hope that they will get upvotes. We don't care about your hatred of justin Bieber and the fact that the dislike bar is as long as his dick (one I see repeatedly).

Does this article come across as excessively bitter? Well yes it does, but I can see where he's coming from. Maybe he hates all of us, maybe he's exaggerating I don't know.
 

Redd the Sock

New member
Apr 14, 2010
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I consider it an insult that material created by trained people with experience and qualifications and talent is forced to share space on my computer screen with the musings of uninvolved people with no qualifications bar a keyboard and bottomless twattiness.
The flaw in the formula is how much internet content is done by people that only had the barriers to entry of "figure out how to sign up for a blog" or "figured out how to turn on a webcam and post to youtube." Twats are becoming professionals far enough to forget they aren't trained comics with journalism degrees on the wall just because someone finds them entertaining enough to pay for.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Aug 8, 2007
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Once again people scream into the online void without fully understanding what the article is about. There is a specific gripe here; comments intruding into vidogames. The point is backed up by examples of shitty comments systems. Comments inside that medium have very little place. Telling someone to 'stop bitching' whilst bitching about about something that was never said comes across a little anally devastated.

For those who just read the title and decided to attack their keyboards here is what the article is not saying;" to hell with all you forum posters." To construe that and to throw your toys out of the pram and start crying all over is to miss the point.
 

Covarr

PS Thanks
May 29, 2009
1,559
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<tweet t="https://twitter.com/YahtzeeCroshaw/status/418139086591766528" align=right>
Challenge accepted.

The only merit by which commenting on this column makes a person look foolish is if one confuses opinion for fact and takes everything in your column as gospel. Disagreeing with you makes us look petulant, sure (I can see I'm being just a tad petulant even as I type this up), but not foolish.

P.S. Thanks
 

Madmanonfire

New member
Jul 24, 2009
301
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Scrumpmonkey said:
There is a specific gripe here; comments intruding into vidogames. The point is backed up by examples of shitty comments systems.
The thing here is 3D World is not a good example to back his argument, despite being his main example. The default setting is off and after a couple of levels, the game asks you once if you want Miiverse posts at the end of each level. If you say no, the game never asks you again. It's a win-win situation for gamers: people who like seeing Miiverse posts can simply choose yes and see people try to use stamps stupidly creatively with the occasional helpful post of a hard to find star/stamp, and people who don't want to see comments can simply choose no and be on their merry way. The comment system isn't very intrusive at all.
 

Remus

Reprogrammed Spambot
Nov 24, 2012
1,698
0
0
I'd comment on the commentary in regards to the comments section but then my comments would be misconstrued as furthering Yahtzee's commentary......crap.
CAPTCHA: Thumbs Up. Ahh Captcha, you always have the perfect answer for any occasion.
 

Mike Fang

New member
Mar 20, 2008
458
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Yopaz said:
So there's no reason to believe that he's generalizing and knows that he is? We should take this at face value that he loathes each and every one of us? I have to say I have been having a similar rant built up in me for a long time. I have this habit to downvote comments on Youtube simply being quotes from the video or bad jokes based on stuff from the video. More annoying is the ones who are deliberately making comments in the hope that they will get upvotes. We don't care about your hatred of justin Bieber and the fact that the dislike bar is as long as his dick (one I see repeatedly).

Does this article come across as excessively bitter? Well yes it does, but I can see where he's coming from. Maybe he hates all of us, maybe he's exaggerating I don't know.
I'm not saying his frustration is completely baseless; there are plenty of reasons to dislike the majority of comments made on videos and message boards; too many of them are thoughtless and just people making noise for the sake of hearing (or seeing, to be more accurate) themselves talk. But that isn't a good reason to say nobody should have the right or ability to express themselves publicly online. Oh but I'm sure he (and other people, possibly yourself) would say "oh he's not saying that, he's just saying they shouldn't be able to express themselves on the same level as 'professionals'." Well a) I frankly think an attitude like that would be arrogant and a sign of hubris, b) If a comments section post isn't far removed enough from the 'professional' level of being published/broadcast/posted by a professional game review company, I don't know what is and c) even if someone found a way to prove it wasn't far enough removed, how far do we take the CENSORSHIP of personal opinion, 'cause that's damn well what this is. Shall we say unless you're a professional with credentials, you can't post it online? Can't write it in a newspaper? Can't talk about it on tv or the radio? Hell, let's say you can't talk about it out loud in public within earshot of another person.

I don't like the "all or nothing" philosophy, but in this case, it's necessary. Sometimes you have to take the bad with the good because the only other option is to start turning rights into privileges. Yes, it means having to put up with drooling shitheads who spew pointless drivel in a pathetic appeal for attention, but such is the price that must be paid to give those with actual intelligence the same means to express themselves. And there is a silver lining on the cloud; in the end all the jack asses who act and talk like jack asses manage to accomplish is to make people think: "Wow, that person is a stupid jack ass."
 

Pebkio

The Purple Mage
Nov 9, 2009
780
0
0
Well of course comment sections are for the sole benefit of people commenting. Did you ever think the concept was going to have any other pupose that to stroke some egos. When I directly address someone in my post... don't, for even one second, believe I actually think that person is going to read my post. I posted it so that I could write out what I'm thinking.

And MAYBE someone might come along and respond to me, and then holy hell I might respond back if I haven't overheated with rage.

Before the internet, only a select few could do this in a newspaper but the super special secret is that THOSE FEW were NO BETTER than ANYONE ELSE. Hell, without the internet... someone would sell their opinion to a newspaper and then that newspaper would get no less than six billion letters expressing dissent or approval. At least the internet allows us to address ourselves and the original opinion-haver (like, say, Yahtzee) can just ignore the happy circle jerking.

...I like you, Yahtzee, you're a quality funnyman. But what could possibly make you think that your opinion is more valid than anyone else's?
 

Carnagath

New member
Apr 18, 2009
1,814
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This website has an interesting rule: You're not allowed to insult the content creators. If you do, you get warned/banned. If the content creators insult you however, as is the case here, your only real option is to shut the fuck up and stop watching. You know what? I'm cool with that. It's a nice system. If you find that someone is being too much of a ****, you really should stop watching/reading their stuff. You have the option of doing just that.

Luckily, Nintendo offers this option as well, by making it possible to turn the comments off, as Yahtzee mentioned. But he didn't do that, because he just wants to ***** about a non issue and waste... people's...fucking...time. Which he did. Successfully. So, overall, this is a great article that achieves its goal with ease.

Those are facts.

You could dispute them, but you would be wrong.

Also, have a great new year.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

I never asked for this
Sep 8, 2011
6,633
0
0
So if I comment on this, I'm missing the point? I don't think so. The rant itself is full of missed points.

Covarr said:
<tweet t="https://twitter.com/YahtzeeCroshaw/status/418139086591766528" align=right>
Challenge accepted.

The only merit by which commenting on this column makes a person look foolish is if one confuses opinion for fact and takes everything in your column as gospel. Disagreeing with you makes us look petulant, sure (I can see I'm being just a tad petulant even as I type this up), but not foolish.

P.S. Thanks
Exactly. Just because some depressed manchild thinks he's being clever, doesn't make it so. It's a pretty immature rant.
 

Yopaz

Sarcastic overlord
Jun 3, 2009
6,092
0
0
Mike Fang said:
Yopaz said:
So there's no reason to believe that he's generalizing and knows that he is? We should take this at face value that he loathes each and every one of us? I have to say I have been having a similar rant built up in me for a long time. I have this habit to downvote comments on Youtube simply being quotes from the video or bad jokes based on stuff from the video. More annoying is the ones who are deliberately making comments in the hope that they will get upvotes. We don't care about your hatred of justin Bieber and the fact that the dislike bar is as long as his dick (one I see repeatedly).

Does this article come across as excessively bitter? Well yes it does, but I can see where he's coming from. Maybe he hates all of us, maybe he's exaggerating I don't know.
I'm not saying his frustration is completely baseless; there are plenty of reasons to dislike the majority of comments made on videos and message boards; too many of them are thoughtless and just people making noise for the sake of hearing (or seeing, to be more accurate) themselves talk. But that isn't a good reason to say nobody should have the right or ability to express themselves publicly online. Oh but I'm sure he (and other people, possibly yourself) would say "oh he's not saying that, he's just saying they shouldn't be able to express themselves on the same level as 'professionals'." Well a) I frankly think an attitude like that would be arrogant and a sign of hubris, b) If a comments section post isn't far removed enough from the 'professional' level of being published/broadcast/posted by a professional game review company, I don't know what is and c) even if someone found a way to prove it wasn't far enough removed, how far do we take the CENSORSHIP of personal opinion, 'cause that's damn well what this is. Shall we say unless you're a professional with credentials, you can't post it online? Can't write it in a newspaper? Can't talk about it on tv or the radio? Hell, let's say you can't talk about it out loud in public within earshot of another person.

I don't like the "all or nothing" philosophy, but in this case, it's necessary. Sometimes you have to take the bad with the good because the only other option is to start turning rights into privileges. Yes, it means having to put up with drooling shitheads who spew pointless drivel in a pathetic appeal for attention, but such is the price that must be paid to give those with actual intelligence the same means to express themselves. And there is a silver lining on the cloud; in the end all the jack asses who act and talk like jack asses manage to accomplish is to make people think: "Wow, that person is a stupid jack ass."
I am in complete agreement with everything you said. You shouldn't dismiss EVERYONE just because a good deal of comments are stupid. It would be arrogant to do so and he does come off as VERY self centred in this article.

I don't consider your comment stupid and I would in fact say that you make a very valid point when you discuss censorship. There are plenty of reasons why comments are good and lots of comments are good. I just don't think you should take everything he says at face value. It's a rant and he generalises a lot, he even made a point of saying that he enabled comments for the sake of having something to complain about in Super Mario 3D World. He does come across as a bitter, self centred person who hates all of us in this article, but I disagree with your opinion that we should take it at face value. It's clearly something he feels strongly enough to voice it in this article, but your statement that this is about 99% of all of us isn't all that different from claiming that we're all twats surrounded by bigger twats.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

New member
Aug 8, 2007
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Pretty much the only place where comments are actually useful is livestreaming sites, so that the streamer can interact with his audience in real-time.

But even then...

 

Mike Fang

New member
Mar 20, 2008
458
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Yopaz said:
I am in complete agreement with everything you said. You shouldn't dismiss EVERYONE just because a good deal of comments are stupid. It would be arrogant to do so and he does come off as VERY self centred in this article.

I don't consider your comment stupid and I would in fact say that you make a very valid point when you discuss censorship. There are plenty of reasons why comments are good and lots of comments are good. I just don't think you should take everything he says at face value. It's a rant and he generalises a lot, he even made a point of saying that he enabled comments for the sake of having something to complain about in Super Mario 3D World. He does come across as a bitter, self centred person who hates all of us in this article, but I disagree with your opinion that we should take it at face value. It's clearly something he feels strongly enough to voice it in this article, but your statement that this is about 99% of all of us isn't all that different from claiming that we're all twats surrounded by bigger twats.
Well that's nice of you to say. And yes, in this one article he does sound like he's generalizing and going on just this one article, you certainly have a valid point as well, that this one article isn't enough to say Yahtzee's always like this and means every word of what he's saying here about every person out there.

The thing is, I'm not going by just this one article. I'm also looking at a number of his previous works, both EP and ZP, where he's displayed an embittered, cynical, and sullenly hateful attitude. Granted, sometimes he's played it for laughs, but the consistency of it makes me seriously question how much is honestly for laughs and how much is just him being honestly venomous because that's his customary outlook on life and people in general.
 

marurder

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Jul 26, 2009
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Isn't the post a glorified comment that is essentially paid for to generate traffic?
 

FieryTrainwreck

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Apr 16, 2010
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The worst part about the internet is the removal of most obstacles/barriers for publishing. Yes, previous obstacles and barriers were sometimes corrupt or faulty, and they managed to hold back a few innovative/creative types we would have enjoyed, but I greatly prefer a flawed filter to none at all. Now everyone on the planet self-publishes practically everything, and 95% of it is fucking retarded.

I guess I'm saying we've gained a few new voices that might have been stymied back in the day, but those fresh, intelligent producers are pretty well drown out by the vast surrounding oceans of mediocrity and idiocy.

...I like you, Yahtzee, you're a quality funnyman. But what could possibly make you think that your opinion is more valid than anyone else's?
The notion that all opinions are equally valid might be the root of some of the world's greatest ongoing problems. Maybe it's just a far-reaching unconscious conspiracy on the part of those who are attractive and/or wealthy to undermine those pillars of influence that rely on intelligence, reasoning, and merit.
 

JimB

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Apr 1, 2012
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I don't play such games online, so I have to ask all the people declaring this thread to be ironic, how similar is the comment system in Super Mario World 3D Wii U (or whatever the Christing thing is actually named) to a discussion forum like this one? Is it possible for users to have a meaningful conversation through the comment section, such as by quoting one another or replying directly to one another?
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

Henchgoat Emperor
May 15, 2010
5,499
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Everyone is entitled to rant, to vent. I don't believe Yahtzee is an exception, and thus his rant is also valid. I don't know if he actually was specifically targeting Escapist commenters (though some of them I'd heartily agree don't contribute anything but wastes of digital ink) but rather how some sites and now games more or less toss comments up in your face when you don't want them, or don't care enough about them. I've always found the Escapist comments section (aside from the stupid ass Facebook comments) to be just off the street so-to-speak so you actively have to look for them. Thus balance is achieved without having to read the crap some users spew.
Myself included.
That being said, I agree with most of it, some of it I haven't experienced and the rest somehow I ignored til he brought it up.
 

Yopaz

Sarcastic overlord
Jun 3, 2009
6,092
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Mike Fang said:
Yopaz said:
I am in complete agreement with everything you said. You shouldn't dismiss EVERYONE just because a good deal of comments are stupid. It would be arrogant to do so and he does come off as VERY self centred in this article.

I don't consider your comment stupid and I would in fact say that you make a very valid point when you discuss censorship. There are plenty of reasons why comments are good and lots of comments are good. I just don't think you should take everything he says at face value. It's a rant and he generalises a lot, he even made a point of saying that he enabled comments for the sake of having something to complain about in Super Mario 3D World. He does come across as a bitter, self centred person who hates all of us in this article, but I disagree with your opinion that we should take it at face value. It's clearly something he feels strongly enough to voice it in this article, but your statement that this is about 99% of all of us isn't all that different from claiming that we're all twats surrounded by bigger twats.
Well that's nice of you to say. And yes, in this one article he does sound like he's generalizing and going on just this one article, you certainly have a valid point as well, that this one article isn't enough to say Yahtzee's always like this and means every word of what he's saying here about every person out there.

The thing is, I'm not going by just this one article. I'm also looking at a number of his previous works, both EP and ZP, where he's displayed an embittered, cynical, and sullenly hateful attitude. Granted, sometimes he's played it for laughs, but the consistency of it makes me seriously question how much is honestly for laughs and how much is just him being honestly venomous because that's his customary outlook on life and people in general.
Even if he's consistent in this kind of behaviour that doesn't really mean much. I've followed his work for a long time and I'm not really able to make out much about what's real and what's an act. What I do know is that his internet personality is very different from his normal personality. He has complained so much about Nintendo churning out the same worn out franchises again and again yet he has praised both Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, there's even an Extra Punctuation dedicated to defending the Super Mario franchise in terms of innovation. He has complained about Super Mario Galaxy 2 being a lazy sequel and praising its level design. Its easy to say he's contradicting himself just to argue with whoever dares to comment and to troll with those who have the gall to comment, but it might be simply exaggerations and focus.

I'm not saying I know him or that you're wrong saying he's a bitter person who hates us all, but if you were to read this article again you might see that he is targeting a very specific kind of comments. Maybe he's ignoring the better ones, maybe he's ignoring the good due to some kind of superiority complex. As I said I don't know and it would be silly to claim I know him just because I've been reading his stuff since before he came to The Escapist. However the fact that he is known for comedy books, videos and articles should be a hint that not everything he says is to be taken seriously.

My biggest issue with him is that people tend to take him too seriously. PC master race was an ironic statement that PC gamers accepted unironically which recently flared up again when he got a new gaming PC. It often sounds like he's a bit full of himself and I agree that I don't like those articles and videos which demonstrates this.

Do you honestly think we should take he says at face value? Does Jim Sterling really want us all to thank god for him? Did Stephen Lynch really have a desperate wish for his grandpa to die? Does Brian Regan really not know the plural of box or how to spell cat? Comedians aren't known for being consistently serious, but they often do have a consistent persona.
 

Dragonbums

Indulge in it's whiffy sensation
May 9, 2013
3,307
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EvilRoy said:
Dragonbums said:
Your entire article basically says- My words are more important than yours because I get paid to do it. Yours means nothing therefore I don't want to see it.
Thing is though, that view is basically correct. Journalism and criticism in general require a fair amount of qualification in order for it to have any weight or value.

What Yahtzee has to say automatically has more weight than any opinion of yours or mine simply because he has both a face and a name. By having both of those things he is made to be accountable for things that says, and he develops a backlog of opinions that qualify all his future opinions. So he has reason to avoid saying things that are tremendously biased or false, and we have a sizable backlog of information to go back to that might help us interpret his opinion and weight it appropriately in context to his preferences vs ours.

Earlier in the thread you mentioned that comments can be good because they can call the author out on a falsehood or bias, but the problem is that is you are choosing to question an author with a face, a name, and potentially something to lose based on the opinion of a person with no face, no name, and nothing to lose. Yes its good to question and confirm information for yourself, but you should be doing that with or without the input of some random who may or may not have any clue about what they're saying.

Hell take our own comments as an example, yours and mine. From the second half of your post I can see pretty clearly that you like Nint quite a bit, so I'm not really going to give much weight to your opinion on that particular company. Likewise when you read my comment you have to question the validity of the conclusions I'm drawing because I'm some faceless jackass with zero attachment to this account or place. I could be talking out of my ass for no reason better than "I'm bored" and you would never know.
I'm not really going to dispute that what your saying doesn't make sense. It's just that ranting that comments should be obliterated because one or the other deems them unworthy is total ass.

What I say may have no value to you due to affiliation, but perhaps it may to someone else.

There are plenty of comments that I don't agree with. That doesn't mean I'm going to go out of my way to say "the only thing that matters on the internet are paid people to make comments on the internet". It just feels highly self centered, and egotistical. Especially when implied that his own stuff actually has weight in this industry at all.

I like Jim's stuff for instance. I tend to agree on most of what he says. But I'm not going to believe for a second that what he says will have that much of a sway in the grand scheme of things. Or whether his opinions matter outside of Destructoid and Escapist. To places like IGN, he's a fucking nobody.
 

themilo504

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May 9, 2010
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shrekfan246 said:
nickpy said:
Scrumpmonkey said:
This was true until those fucking Facebook comments were enabled. It undermines the accounts and community system. They were a horrible idea and they need to go.
This place is infected with facebook? really? I didn't think Escapist could stoop that low, I really didn't, and now I feel betrayed! Then again... I suppose it doesn't actually affect me since I have a plugin in my browser which forcibly removes all social media plugins from all websites, which is why I didn't know this place had succumbed.
Facebook comments on videos and articles have been around here for a while. Like, possibly since I joined or even earlier.

themilo504 said:
When it comes to videos I think that comments are great for feedback and I find It funny that a reviewer can?t see that.
The thing is, take a gander at the comments sections of most of the reviews. Any review, really, but particularly good ones are "controversial" ones like Tito's Dragon Age II/Grand Theft Auto V or Yahtzee's Super Smash Bros. Brawl, or Jim Sterling's Vanquish/The Witcher 2.

Normal reviews become filled with comments to the effect of "I agree/disagree" and occasionally get expounded upon with "And here's why". On a good day, it pretty much ends with that, maybe a bit of light-hearted joking between members.

"Controversial" reviews get blasted down with so much useless bile of "HOW COULD YOU NOT LIKE [Game]!?!?!?! RABBLERABBLERABBLE!" (or of course, "HOW COULD YOU LIKE [Game]?!!?!? RABBLERABBLERABBLE!!!") that it becomes pointless to even read them, because all you're going to see is that and the inevitable arguing between those people and the people who think the reviewer is correct and/or think they should all just calm down.

They're just echo chambers for users, and very rarely contain anything constructive for the person who created the content in question. A notable exception to this is our very own Jim Sterling, if we all recall the beginning of The Jimquisition on this website. But even then, he had to sift through hundreds of angry comments saying "Who is this arrogant fat fuck?!!?!" (many even being worded that harshly) to find the actual constructive responses because that's the reaction people immediately jumped to upon seeing something they didn't like.
Yes but that?s the fault of the commenters, even if you disable comments people are still going to find ways to be a jerk.
 

Dark Knifer

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May 12, 2009
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EvilRoy said:
Pretty much this. Comments by default are less valid as their skill set is not known but the authors skill set is. It's the difference between content and comments. Not that I mind comments though, hell I'm posting here but yeah, they can be kinda crap but an inevitable feature and most people will say comments are usually shit.
 

Vale

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May 1, 2013
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"To hell with the reviews. This time I give myself five stars."

Reminds me of Beautiful Escape alright.
YAHTZEE IS A SERIEAL KILLER not really no.

I would tend to agree, but that would mean voicing my opinion and OH BOY. SUCH DISCUSSION now I'm even doing the memes just kill me already.

I think I made myself pretty fucking clear.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Aug 8, 2007
11,049
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nickpy said:
Scrumpmonkey said:
This was true until those fucking Facebook comments were enabled. It undermines the accounts and community system. They were a horrible idea and they need to go.
This place is infected with facebook? really? I didn't think Escapist could stoop that low, I really didn't, and now I feel betrayed! Then again... I suppose it doesn't actually affect me since I have a plugin in my browser which forcibly removes all social media plugins from all websites, which is why I didn't know this place had succumbed.
Well at least the Facebook comments don't suffer from the ridiculous and strictly enforced rules these forums have.
 

Two-A

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Aug 1, 2012
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Enlong said:
Wait, the ratings system in ACIV was real? I was convinced it was a joke. Like, since you're playing a code tester for AE, of course they'd ask focus questions of you. But you're telling me those ratings are actually going back to Ubisoft?
Wait, are you serious? What are they going to do with that feedback?

OT: I think it depends on the site, some comment sections are great (the Cracked comment section, for example). From what I've seen, the reputation and popularity of the site (or the article, or the subject of the article) affects the quality of the comments. Having a voting system helps (specially if you can sort by votes) but it won't solve the problem
 

vasudean

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May 30, 2008
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In some ways I can understand where Benjamin Croshaw is coming from. If one were to take just one glance at a random comment on something like a Youtube video, then yes odds are you'll find a comment from someone that by all rights shouldn't even be near a keyboard. However, sometimes you'll come across a comment that is thoughtful and adds to the conversation made. How I see it, a comment section is like having young children. They're loud and obnoxious and sometimes even rude. However, there are times when that child will do something that makes all the bad things completely worthwhile. At least in my mind it's that way. It's a complicated sort of love. So in that regards I disagree with him saying that comments don't have a place.
 

IceForce

Is this memes?
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
2,366
16
13
Carnagath said:
This website has an interesting rule: You're not allowed to insult the content creators. If you do, you get warned/banned. If the content creators insult you however, as is the case here, your only real option is to shut the fuck up and stop watching.
I don't like that rule, personally.

If someone insults you, there should always be an option to insult them back.
Jasper van Heycop said:
Well at least the Facebook comments don't suffer from the ridiculous and strictly enforced rules these forums have.
Which is funny, when you think about it.

The mods and people who own this site don't want certain things posted on it, so they made rules against posting that stuff.
But the Facebook comments contain all manner of insults and whatever else, and they appear at the bottom of every piece of Escapist content.

So, insults and other things that are against the rules, DO actually appear on this site after all, inside a Facebook comment box.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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What an awful artical from someone. I think that commenters are great, because at times, they will show where people did wrong and misinformed.
 

Thanatos2k

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Aug 12, 2013
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Covarr said:
Eh, comments can be useful. Constructive feedback is a very good thing, and even relevant questions are appropriate for a comments section. The fact that most comments suck isn't an inherent problem with comments, but an inherent problem with people.

For an example of Miiverse done correctly, look at Super Metroid.

P.S. Thanks
Yeah....about that....

http://www.destructoid.com/wii-u-owners-don-t-know-how-to-play-super-metroid-253895.phtml
 

IrisNetwork

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Sep 11, 2013
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Yahtzee Croshaw said:
And one of the most valid complaints about the game is that all the awesome swashbuckling pirate fun gets interrupted now and then so you can hover around an office ruminating over all the fun you just had
That's my biggest complaint about that game. I think it would've been better if it were a new IP and not an AC game.
It always feels like being called by my mom to do some house chores before getting back to video games.
 

VoidWanderer

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Sep 17, 2011
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Bittersteel said:
What an awful artical from someone. I think that commenters are great, because at times, they will show where people did wrong and misinformed.
Forums are good for that because they tend to be moderated. Comment sections however can be a real mess with people whose opinions differ from the poster of the video and the sheer bile that gets thrown at them for 'doing it wrong' aka 'Not doing how I would've done it' is impressive and daunting at the same time.

Most comments would reference someone's bad spelling as a way to point out 'you are wrong', but in forums the person posting has to think about it a little more.

Forums are fine as they more emulate a discussion, but comments are more like two groups of opposing English soccer fans deliberately look to 'prove their superiority'. But forums can slip into this. I have felt attacked by posting about the 19 year old who got 'screwed' getting and XB1 and while I did point out that this was based on my opinion, I got a huge post from another Escapist telling me I was wrong, not that my opinion is different, but wrong.

So I'm with Yahtzee on this, comments are a terrible idea, but forums are fine.

I would also like to point out that I am not defending Yahtzee or his article, but this too is an opinion based on what I have seen.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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"And I know you can turn the comments off in 3D World, but if I'd done that I wouldn't have been able to complain about them.
Read more at http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/10857-To-Hell-With-Comments.2#x3WZy2j1jsTMwWoA.99"

Yeah thank you for proving the very point I made about the review itself Yahtzee: that you just forced yourself to find something trivial you hated for the sake of being an ass. This kind of stuff is why I kept labeling you biased for a while because frankly, while I get what he's saying about comments in general and can relate, when it's some minor Miiverse thing that more often gets easily ignored or even turned off then my response is usually this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d4DHgVBSL8&oq

I think the fact that he went out of his way to admit that probably speaks volumes of why I can't take criticism anymore. Critics and gamers are becoming far too whiny and unpleasing. It's one thing to hate comment features but when they're optional and can be turned off? Then why are you complaining? Just turn the things off and go about your business!!
 

Mr. Q

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Guess Yahtzee needed to dump some excess bile onto the masses before the new year. Kinda figured he was saving it for his Best/Worst list of 2013.

Joking aside, I'm not supportive of what he had to say but there is a sliver of truth in the article. Go on any YouTube post like Dragonball Z: Abridged and you're bound to find most of the jokes and one-liners like the roaches coming out after someone turns off the lights. And that is not including the racist, sexist, mean-spirited bullshit being puked up by these fuckwits. I may go off the handle on my posts occasionally but I tend to target people who act like assholes who think their shit doesn't stink. Those are the people that need their jaws, tongues, voice boxes, and hands surgically removed. But those are vocal minorities. There are decent people online but there has to be a set of rules made to keep the worst among us out of the conversation. Just don't lump us all into the same pot as those who make the Internet a lousy place.
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
1,262
0
0
Scrumpmonkey said:
The comments on the Escapist are relegated to a separate section of dedicated discussion (a forum if you will) and as such do not intrude as much on the media. This was true until those fucking Facebook comments were enabled. It undermines the accounts and community system. They were a horrible idea and they need to go.
I completely agree. Unfortunately, you know it is never gong to go away, because it is now legally mandatory that all websites must link to and promote Facebook. Almighty Facebook, ruler of us all!
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
1,262
0
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EvilRoy said:
Dragonbums said:
Your entire article basically says- My words are more important than yours because I get paid to do it. Yours means nothing therefore I don't want to see it.
Thing is though, that view is basically correct. Journalism and criticism in general require a fair amount of qualification in order for it to have any weight or value.
And yet, it wasn't long ago that Yahtzee would have been considered an unqualified punk outsider, who doesn't deserve to have a mouthpiece. Remember when the "professional journalists" mocked the idea of blogging? And now blogging has eaten their lunch, and the blogers are taken more seriously than the traditional journalists.

This is really the icing on the irony cake - that Yahtzee has so easily slipped into the same arrogance that the old media did, when they pish-poshed the idea that the internet could threaten their status.

What Yahtzee has to say automatically has more weight than any opinion of yours or mine simply because he has both a face and a name.
Wait, what? You don't have a face or a name? What the hell happened to you? Was there a freak explosion that burnt your face off and left you with amnesia or something?

By having both of those things he is made to be accountable for things that says, and he develops a backlog of opinions that qualify all his future opinions. So he has reason to avoid saying things that are tremendously biased or false, and we have a sizable backlog of information to go back to that might help us interpret his opinion and weight it appropriately in context to his preferences vs ours.
That really doesn't seem to be the way it works. Once people get famous, they tend to not give a shit about what people think of them or say about them, because they always have enough fans around that it doesn't matter. Less-established people are much more likely to be careful about their words, in my experience.
 

Mocmocman

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Smilomaniac said:
What worries me more than comments, is that they're being disabled on major youtube channels. While I understand that the biggest reason is scamming and bad links, some channels like Nerdcubed prefer not to have them at all and are just sick of of them.

I will not pretend to tell these creators that they should have them enabled or that it will even do any good, but it's a short term solution at best. Without feedback, they're closing off a vital source that will inevitably change the content, for better or worse, the latter which the creator should be able to forsee and avoid.
Nerd^3 uses a Subreddit for his comments, so he still sees the feedback to his videos.

OT: I don't know about this article. It seems odd, when earlier in the year Yahtzee went and changed a joke in his video due in no small part to comments on the video. I think that he is making a rather blanket statement to a specific problem, and to be honest comments are often quite annoying to see when you don't need them.
 

AngryPuppy

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I find it very funny that someone who relies on an Audience to value his "comments", complaining about comments. Mayhaps someones in the wrong profession?
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
1,262
0
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Mike Fang said:
The thing is, I'm not going by just this one article. I'm also looking at a number of his previous works, both EP and ZP, where he's displayed an embittered, cynical, and sullenly hateful attitude. Granted, sometimes he's played it for laughs, but the consistency of it makes me seriously question how much is honestly for laughs and how much is just him being honestly venomous because that's his customary outlook on life and people in general.
Listen to his Youtube series called "Let's Drown Out..." where it's basically just him and a friend chatting for a couple of hours. It becomes pretty clear that he really is just like that in real life, it's not an act:

http://fullyramblomatic-yahtzee.blogspot.com.au

And yeah, the irony is intense, because it's essentially him just making comments on whatever he wants to comment on, with no editorial or quality control, no repercussions, etc. I think the problem is that he's just so used to having a soapbox, and having the whole world listen to his comments, that he doesn't have any need for a comments section, as he can easily broadcast his own thoughts to the whole world.

The rest of us don't have that luxury, and it's not a question of competence or qualifications - it's just that the rest of us do not have such a mouthpiece because we have other jobs.
 

Lyvric

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Nov 29, 2011
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1) Isn't he a person who is trained to comment on things
2) Comments, themselves, are in 'comment sections' for a reason
3) They can be disabled and/or turned off as he directly states but then chooses not to
4) Reviews, comments and conversations can be useful for reviewing product and/or building a portfolio (I've followed comment links to many online artists)
5) Nobody cares and everybody knows that already. Ironically it's why comments can be so open.
6) You don't care, but some people who watch/read comments, but don't comment all the time, may find this article rude. Please don't upper twat your lower twats
 

Andy of Comix Inc

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As we all know, discouraging discourse because the majority of people are idiots is exactly how to make the world a better place.

Y'know. Like in politics. Let's make it so no-one gets a vote, perhaps, because most people make the wrong vote. Right? And criticism! Let's go onto Youtube, for example, and launch copyright strikes on every single video critiquing a movie, game, book, or person. Because most of them are going to be wrong! So we should just, you know, get rid of everything. I mean the slim possibility that someone is actually going to be calm and intelligent isn't worth taking a chance on, as we all know.

Great idea Yahtzee! I think I'll enjoy this new internet.
 

2xDouble

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Mar 15, 2010
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Well, I think [COMMENT DELETED]

EDIT: No. You know what? f it. Enjoy your day, Mr. Croshaw.
 

Sotanaht

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nickpy said:
Scrumpmonkey said:
This was true until those fucking Facebook comments were enabled. It undermines the accounts and community system. They were a horrible idea and they need to go.
This place is infected with facebook? really? I didn't think Escapist could stoop that low, I really didn't, and now I feel betrayed! Then again... I suppose it doesn't actually affect me since I have a plugin in my browser which forcibly removes all social media plugins from all websites, which is why I didn't know this place had succumbed.
Can somebody link me to this plugin? Preferably in PM? I'm using chrome btw, though a firefox version wouldn't be entirely useless.
 

Deadcyde

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Jan 11, 2011
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Dragonbums said:
What the hell kind of rant is this?

This basically says fuck comments because mine is clearly superior. Have you ever thought that there are other journalists out there who think your own articles are nothing but paid trash content on a website? And what is stopping the unwashed commenter pleebs from simply posting their own stuff on their own blogs.


If find it funny that you have people hating Anita for say- blocking comments on Youtube on her videos, yet here we are all more or less agreeing with you that we should admonish comments because you don't deem them worthy. This is especially true in the journalism business where feedback is pretty damn important.

Your entire article basically says- My words are more important than yours because I get paid to do it. Yours means nothing therefore I don't want to see it.

You then proceed to complain even more about the stupid comments feature in SM3DW. If it really bothered you that much, just turn it off.

Likewise, if you really hated the Gampad for Pikmin, then use the blasted Wii mote instead of complaining about how annoying it is when you had the option to use an alternative the entire time you played the game for review.
Objectable said:

"He hates unfunny hecklers?"
"His self loathing must be starting to manifest!"
"DOHOHOOHOHOHOHOHO"
these two combined made my day. It's an internet community. Comment sections are forums. You're basically saying shut up people who say things i don't like.

Well tough. Suck it up yahtzee. Everyone has as much right to express, however stupidily, their opinions as much as you do. If you're even half the person you claim to be, you have the mental fortitude to pick through the flotsam and jetsam like the rest of us. Really, anyone would think you were having a hissy fit.

On the upside, well trolled for being paid to do that.
 

GundamSentinel

The leading man, who else?
Aug 23, 2009
4,448
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Objectable said:

"He hates unfunny hecklers?"
"His self loathing must be starting to manifest!"
"DOHOHOOHOHOHOHOHO"
Okay, that made me laugh. :D

Yahtzee basically saying "I'm right, because I get paid for it." is utter nonsense. There's was just one good point made there: that people shouldn't get other people's opinions forced on them by a service or game or whatever. That's just damn obnoxious.
 

SonOfVoorhees

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Aug 3, 2011
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I wonder if Yahtzee had a bad day? Maybe he got some negative reviews for his game and book and is unhappy about it

The rating thing in AC4 was fine, it wasnt forced on you and you had no obligation to do it. But with people moaning about "another AC game" maybe these people should use the rating system so the next AC game is structured around gameplay you want. Plus its easier to get real time feedback about the levels after you have played them, because you can make a decision based on your emotion after just playing it. A lot easier and useful than asking people to fill in a questionnaire online a month later. But when you think about it, they could have made you unable to continue until you did rate the level? lol
 

ThunderCavalier

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Mike Fang said:
Another EP where Yahtzee shows us that side of himself that proves that the hyperbole he uses to put down his own audience is, in reality, exactly how he feels. No, people, he's not just saying those things because he's trying to be entertaining, he really DOES think 99% of us are shit. He thinks it of me and he thinks it of you. Yes, YOU, whoever-is-reading-this-at-the-time, don't think your on his special not-shit-list, because you are, along with the rest of us. It's times like this I really feel misgivings about watching his stuff. He's entertaining and often informative, but by God, he can also be bitter and hateful.
I think he's stated numerous times that he's a bit of a pessimist and that he's better off believing everything is shit rather than everything is great because he'll either be justified or pleasantly surprised in the end.

While, at times, I do agree with his viewpoints, and I do take interest in his various indie projects and other works (though I have yet to read Mogworld or Jam), I can't say I'm too big a fan of his demeanor. I mean, when he's using it to its full comedic potential in ZP, it can get good, and I mean REALLY GOOD, but when it's raw and untempered like this rant... it's just a window to his mind, and it's a rather depressing one.

I'll still love Yahtzee regardless, even if the feeling is far from mutual.
 

Alma Mare

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The salt on display when people are reminded that no one actually gives a shit about the crap they post in the comments sections... delicious.

Now, since, as usually, escapists are missing the point like champs...

If I am a painter and I expose my painting in a gallery...

-I am free to read or the articles the local critics decide on their own time and media to make about it;
-I am free to engage in conversations with people who want to give me their opinions, at my discretion, pacing and leisure.
-I am free to read any written feedback that is sent my way if and when I should decide to do so.
-I AM NOT expected to deliver my painting in a 10m-wide passe-partout in order to allow everyone that feels like so to go on and scribble their rambling right next to my work without my consent or any regard on how adequate said rambling is.

Can you spot the difference?
 

Snotnarok

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The whole argument is moot when the comments section is something you can read or ignore by choice...
The comments section is no different than a group of friends, or strangers leaving a theater talking about their favorite parts of a movie, or in Yahtzees case a comedy club. EVERYONE talks about what they saw because they're excited and showing that is something humans do.
Even an anti-social mongoloid, I understand this, yes there's the experience you have in the theater but no on is in there repeating things stated as it's going. It's not the same.

Regardless of intelligence, age, excitement people like talking about crap, tech, shows or whatever, they're gonna do it, ya don't want to be apart of it? Then just don't read the bloody comments section. It's not about being a part of the show or as important as the entertainers, it's expressing enjoyment of the medium.
 

TheKrigeron

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What?!
You could say the exact same thing about Reviews, those fucking uninformed leeches that think hey can "Analyse" a game jus because they have a Camera and a mic (or Cynicism and the ability to doodle things), fuck em' right in their smug ass!
This Article is stupid.
 

Kingjackl

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The worst part about this column is that Yahtzee himself has already seen for himself the value of user commentary and feedback. He did that when he released the beta of his new game, and specifically asked for feedback from anyone who played it. People commented and he used the information to make changes, fix bugs and add new features. But when other game publishers do it, he throws the written equivalent of a childish tantrum and puts it up on a website that makes heavy use of user comments. The level of hypocrisy and thick-headedness is astounding.

Also, that thing he put up on Twitter saying something like "oh, it's a commentary on comments, so you can't comment without looking foolish"? Yeah, if that's not an admission of failure, then I don't know what is. However foolish the commenters on this thread are, I don't see how they could possibly be more foolish than the one who wrote the article to begin with.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Aardvaarkman said:
Scrumpmonkey said:
The comments on the Escapist are relegated to a separate section of dedicated discussion (a forum if you will) and as such do not intrude as much on the media. This was true until those fucking Facebook comments were enabled. It undermines the accounts and community system. They were a horrible idea and they need to go.
I completely agree. Unfortunately, you know it is never gong to go away, because it is now legally mandatory that all websites must link to and promote Facebook. Almighty Facebook, ruler of us all!
'Social Media' and Facebook in particular is arguably starting to get LESS relevant as time goes on and people/companies realise that all those likes are
1) just all froth and noise and distraction and don't materialise into anything
2).uses are migrating away from these fickle services at an alarming rate
3) Most of the big companies likes are actually fake and
4) the level pf community engagement you get is extremely poor and has no benefit to you.

All these plungins do is sell someone else's service. Its got to the point that YouTube Facebook etc are dependant on their ubiquity because they are actively hated by a sizable proportion of users
 

Breywood

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Kingjackl, I find your foolish comment to be especially foolish.

I appreciate his commentary, but there are definitely times I'll disagree with him. You've done well to point out how this isn't his best work.
 

Vegosiux

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Separating the wheat from the chaff is always an arduous process. And there's a lot of chaff going around so it's understandable that not everyone wants to go through it.
 

Knight Captain Kerr

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Censorship is a terrible idea. The ability for anyone to post their opinions easily and for free online is great. Freedom of information is one of the best things to happen with the internet. Glad I'm not the only person who sees the hypocrisy in this article. Basically it is saying that he should be allowed post his views on things but not everyone else. His opinions aren't more valid just because he gets paid for it, that is an argument from authority. Yes lots of comments are rubbish but not all of them. And I don't like when I have the best jokes in a comedy video ruined on me by glancing at the comments. You shouldn't tar all comments with the same brush and certainly shouldn't ban them. If you don't want to read comments then you don't have to. Although I do agree, they should be optional and shouldn't be forced upon you.
 

SweetShark

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Jan 9, 2012
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Kingjackl said:
The worst part about this column is that Yahtzee himself has already seen for himself the value of user commentary and feedback. He did that when he released the beta of his new game, and specifically asked for feedback from anyone who played it. People commented and he used the information to make changes, fix bugs and add new features. But when other game publishers do it, he throws the written equivalent of a childish tantrum and puts it up on a website that makes heavy use of user comments. The level of hypocrisy and thick-headedness is astounding.

Also, that thing he put up on Twitter saying something like "oh, it's a commentary on comments, so you can't comment without looking foolish"? Yeah, if that's not an admission of failure, then I don't know what is. However foolish the commenters on this thread are, I don't see how they could possibly be more foolish than the one who wrote the article to begin with.
As I said, he only doing this for comedy to make the things more interesting.
Don't take his word so seriously.
If Yantzee was a Pony, he would had the Element of Disorder and Irony. He is good at that. But he isn't a bad Pony. He is a good Pony. We must Believe in him.
 

Kitsune Hunter

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Interesting, Yahtzee makes an article about the problems with comments and those who attempt to challenge him on his opinion have not only missed the point of the article, but have managed to prove his point, well played Mr Croshaw, well played.

OT: My opinion on comments vary depending on the subject matter, if it's on things like games, movies, TV programmes etc. then it helps to provide feedback which is important, however in terms of say, comment sections on news sites, I find them completely unnecessary as the only people that it attracts are idiotic armchair generals who views their opinion on a certain issue as fact when really, they're just full of shit and will violently lash out at those who have a different opinion. Just look at the comments section at Yahoo, Sky news or even the Escapist's R and P section to get an idea of what I'm talking about.
 

Kenjitsuka

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"You treat it like a punch: you deliver it, and then you run away."
Oh, I always punch people and then have to stand in a line waiting to be processed in the local police station!

Learned something again from you this week, thanks!

P.S.
Your awesomeness radiates greatly, because for once I did not get a BLOODY commercial CAPTCHA, but "This is Sparta" 0_0
 

hazydawn

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If everyone only spoke when they had something knowledgeable, well thought-trough, and worthwhile to say we'd lead very silent and solitary lives.

Alma Mare said:
If I am a painter and I expose my painting in a gallery...

-I am free to read or the articles the local critics decide on their own time and media to make about it;
-I am free to engage in conversations with people who want to give me their opinions, at my discretion, pacing and leisure.
-I am free to read any written feedback that is sent my way if and when I should decide to do so.
-I AM NOT expected to deliver my painting in a 10m-wide passe-partout in order to allow everyone that feels like so to go on and scribble their rambling right next to my work without my consent or any regard on how adequate said rambling is.

Can you spot the difference?
No. Because the comment section is just another medium for discourse. As the creator of something you can't prohibit people to comment on your work or restrict the way people do it. You may do so in the space you decide to showcase your work, at least if you are in control of said space and didn't use somebody else's space for it, like Yahtzee does here on the Escapist. As a creator you are not forced to showcase your work in a space where you do not agree on the terms. And you are also not forced to read all those comments.

If you don't like it find some place else to display your art masterpiece or built your own god damn art gallery!
 

Andrew Lamp

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"I despise the notion that everyone has something of value to contribute, because that's provably false. Just try to think of how much of a twat you are."

Pot, kettle, black.
 

EvilRoy

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Dragonbums said:
EvilRoy said:
I'm not really going to dispute that what your saying doesn't make sense. It's just that ranting that comments should be obliterated because one or the other deems them unworthy is total ass.

What I say may have no value to you due to affiliation, but perhaps it may to someone else.

There are plenty of comments that I don't agree with. That doesn't mean I'm going to go out of my way to say "the only thing that matters on the internet are paid people to make comments on the internet". It just feels highly self centered, and egotistical. Especially when implied that his own stuff actually has weight in this industry at all.

I like Jim's stuff for instance. I tend to agree on most of what he says. But I'm not going to believe for a second that what he says will have that much of a sway in the grand scheme of things. Or whether his opinions matter outside of Destructoid and Escapist. To places like IGN, he's a fucking nobody.
It isn't a question of influence, its a question of accountability. Whether or not Yahtzee or Jim actually do have an effect on the gaming world is disputable, but what isn't disputable is that people who follow them on the internet will remember their opinions until they die. Years later people still remember that Yahtzee didn't play monster hunter the way they wanted, and that Bob made a video talking about how PC gaming was doomed to turn into tablet only, and that Jim gave the wrong score to whatever. That accountability may never manifest as authority or punishment - they will likely never dictate what a good game is and they will likely never be thrown off the internet for their crimes - but we can use those past videos as a way to determine the validity of their opinions on the topic of today.
 

hexFrank202

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I made a video about My Little Pony this year and it got thousands of views. The first wave of comments--like the first three hundred or so--like for the first two weeks--were densely littered with brinliance. Every fifth comment made me laugh out loud or applause in appreciation.

After that, the lessers of the Youtube community started really infesting the comments with the same dumb, repetitive, boring points and lame jokes.

So maybe there ought to be a cutoff date.
 

EvilRoy

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Aardvaarkman said:
EvilRoy said:
Dragonbums said:
Your entire article basically says- My words are more important than yours because I get paid to do it. Yours means nothing therefore I don't want to see it.
Thing is though, that view is basically correct. Journalism and criticism in general require a fair amount of qualification in order for it to have any weight or value.
And yet, it wasn't long ago that Yahtzee would have been considered an unqualified punk outsider, who doesn't deserve to have a mouthpiece.
Yes, respect for opinions and thoughts is typically earned rather than granted.

Remember when the "professional journalists" mocked the idea of blogging? And now blogging has eaten their lunch, and the blogers are taken more seriously than the traditional journalists.

This is really the icing on the irony cake - that Yahtzee has so easily slipped into the same arrogance that the old media did, when they pish-poshed the idea that the internet could threaten their status.
Unfortunately this has led directly to a proliferation of falsehoods due to either the malice or incompetence of the bloggers. Its a real problem that has basically necessitated the existence of and guaranteed the eternal employment of groups like Snopes which is run by people with faces and names.

Wait, what? You don't have a face or a name? What the hell happened to you? Was there a freak explosion that burnt your face off and left you with amnesia or something?
I don't know if you're making a joke or you don't understand.

That really doesn't seem to be the way it works. Once people get famous, they tend to not give a shit about what people think of them or say about them, because they always have enough fans around that it doesn't matter. Less-established people are much more likely to be careful about their words, in my experience.
They don't need to be careful of their words, they need to have a backlog against which we can qualify future opinions. They can be as biased or rude as they want, but having a face and a name guarantees that those things stay on the record rather than dying with each avatar and handle.
 

Nimcha

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Just readin one small sample of the comments on this particular article pretty much proves its point...
 

Something Amyss

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Scars Unseen said:
Damn right! Screw those scrubs with their vapid meme pasting and horrific pun generation. Not a worthwhile point to be made by any of them. It's you and me against the world!

(I'm the exception right?)
I know where you were going with this, but that seems like it could have also been an indictment of Yahtzee.

Scrumpmonkey said:
As for social media content/crossover in games. It's simply embarrassing. Hang your head in shame industry.
I think they feel the need for the exact same reason you mention later with regards to the interwebs layer down the page. They fear without social media nobody will care. And honestly, considering that almost every game I join involves someone stopping to read/post/sext something on Twitter/Facebook/Instagram/whatever, they may not be too far off.

Mike Fang said:
Another EP where Yahtzee shows us that side of himself that proves that the hyperbole he uses to put down his own audience is, in reality, exactly how he feels. No, people, he's not just saying those things because he's trying to be entertaining, he really DOES think 99% of us are shit. He thinks it of me and he thinks it of you. Yes, YOU, whoever-is-reading-this-at-the-time, don't think your on his special not-shit-list, because you are, along with the rest of us. It's times like this I really feel misgivings about watching his stuff. He's entertaining and often informative, but by God, he can also be bitter and hateful.
I can see why you'd feel that way, but nothing he says really bothers me to the point I'd have any misgivings myself. I mean, so what if Yahtzee doesn't think highly of me? I don't watch these videos for validation (though it seems many do, based on the reactions), I watch for entertainment. And until he stops being funny or starts saying things a little stronger than at least partially validated complaints about the comments sections, I'm not likely to shift away.

But I'm not going to defend his comments, either. The best I can do is say that they're probably at least partially validated, given what I've read. He may mean it about all of us, and I don't really care, because that kind of broad-brushing is ridiculous to begin with (and is the sort of thing ALL SCRUBS AND CASUALSDO!). On the other hand, it's not much different than a lot of other people who generalise entire audiences/groups.sites/whatever. YouTube is nothing but trolls and Ron Paul fans. Xbox is nothing but homophobic 13 year olds. Nintendo fans are nothing but kids. Wrestling fans are all toothless hicks. Democrats/Republicans are all stupid (for slightly different reasons).

I doubt he means it, like a lot of those generalisations, as anything more than a hyperbolic statement of frustration. But even if he does, it's no skin off my nose. If I limited my entertainment to people who actually liked me, I'd be screeeeeewed.

And honestly, if I were in the position of any of these content creators (not just Yahtzee), I'm not sure I'd feel any different about people.

But again, fair enough if this bothers you enough to avoid his content.
 

Something Amyss

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TheKrigeron said:
What?!
You could say the exact same thing about Reviews, those fucking uninformed leeches that think hey can "Analyse" a game jus because they have a Camera and a mic (or Cynicism and the ability to doodle things), fuck em' right in their smug ass!
This Article is stupid.
Hey, that's not all he has! He also has a sweet hat!

SweetShark said:
Don't take his word so seriously.
Yahtzee's EP columns have often taken a serious, critical approach. Even when they're couched in humuor, they're more serious than his ZP videos.

hazydawn said:
If everyone only spoke when they had something knowledgeable, well thought-trough, and worthwhile to say we'd lead very silent and solitary lives.
I'm not sure that's necessarily a bad thing.
 

Psychobabble

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Aug 3, 2013
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Hmmm .. er... well ..uh... this is awkward after reading that.

Oh well. Guess instead of the pithy pointless twatty comment I was going to make I'll just read you all a bit from The Great Gatsby instead.

"It was when curiosity about Gatsby was at its highest that the lights in his house failed to go on one Saturday night - and, as obscurely as it had begun, his career as Trimalchio was over. Only gradually did I become aware that the automobiles which turned expectantly into his drive stayed for just a minute and then drove sulkily away. Wondering if he were sick I went over to find out ? an unfamiliar butler with a villainous face squinted at me suspiciously from the door.

"Is Mr. Gatsby sick?"

"Nope." After a pause he added "sir" in a dilatory, grudging way.

"I hadn?t seen him around, and I was rather worried. Tell him Mr. Carraway came over."

"Who?" he demanded rudely.

"Carraway."

"Carraway. All right, I?ll tell him." Abruptly he slammed the door."
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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I wonder if game developers feel this way about people who make crappy videos and write pretentious articles criticizing their work as well.
 

Qvar

OBJECTION!
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immortalfrieza said:
Sectan said:
Isn't Yahtzee basically just part of the comment section that is Vidogamez Jurnalizm?
Exactly. It's unbelievably hypocritical of Yahtzee to put down comments when his JOB is for all intents and purposes to comment on video games.
The thing is, since he's the one getting paid, his comments ARE of more value than those of people who don't. Just like any other job, you can tell who's better at it (roughly) by how much can they afford to charge.

Btw, talking about other jobs, I DO hate when people try to gave their opinions about the field of my work. Mostly because they tend to fail horridly in their assumptions (it's a field of social sciences) and I go berserk.
 

Doom972

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I wonder how many game developers feel the same way about Yahtzee. I do agree that comments can be detrimental in some cases. While I don't mind reading people's opinions on websites, I really don't want them inside my games.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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I like Yahtzee for his brittish disdain of the common working man.

It's the mcdonald's problem. You know there's rarely anything healthy to be found, you know it's bad for you, you know you're basically eating shit, but it's right there in front of you and creating something worthwhile takes a while.
 

Kingjackl

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SweetShark said:
Kingjackl said:
The worst part about this column is that Yahtzee himself has already seen for himself the value of user commentary and feedback. He did that when he released the beta of his new game, and specifically asked for feedback from anyone who played it. People commented and he used the information to make changes, fix bugs and add new features. But when other game publishers do it, he throws the written equivalent of a childish tantrum and puts it up on a website that makes heavy use of user comments. The level of hypocrisy and thick-headedness is astounding.

Also, that thing he put up on Twitter saying something like "oh, it's a commentary on comments, so you can't comment without looking foolish"? Yeah, if that's not an admission of failure, then I don't know what is. However foolish the commenters on this thread are, I don't see how they could possibly be more foolish than the one who wrote the article to begin with.
As I said, he only doing this for comedy to make the things more interesting.
Don't take his word so seriously.
If Yantzee was a Pony, he would had the Element of Disorder and Irony. He is good at that. But he isn't a bad Pony. He is a good Pony. We must Believe in him.
No, I'm with the crowd that understands his bitterness, self-loathing and misanthropy are all dead serious and that he needs to get over it. Seriously, what does Yahtzee have to be bitter about?

If it were comedy, I'd be laughing because there would have been actual jokes that were funny in that column. That wasn't funny, it was just petulant and mean-spirited, so I reckon I'm well within my rights to point out how hypocritical he's being.
 

immortalfrieza

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Qvar said:
immortalfrieza said:
Sectan said:
Isn't Yahtzee basically just part of the comment section that is Vidogamez Jurnalizm?
Exactly. It's unbelievably hypocritical of Yahtzee to put down comments when his JOB is for all intents and purposes to comment on video games.
The thing is, since he's the one getting paid, his comments ARE of more value than those of people who don't. Just like any other job, you can tell who's better at it (roughly) by how much can they afford to charge.

Btw, talking about other jobs, I DO hate when people try to gave their opinions about the field of my work. Mostly because they tend to fail horridly in their assumptions (it's a field of social sciences) and I go berserk.
Wrong. Just because he makes money off of his commenting does not make Yahtzee's comments any more valid than those of anyone else, including trolls. All it means is that he managed to scream loud enough to get enough attention to be able to make money off of his comments, it does not in the least prove his comments are more valid, just more well known.
 

M920CAIN

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Yahtzee, when you started doing reviews were you a professional or were you just doing a rant review about a game you liked/disliked? Opinions do matter, that's how you became somewhat famous, that's why you are valued now, that's why the Escapist bosses pay you for the content you provide which are basically rants. This whole article you wrote is a rant about how you don't like comments, but really, isn't this article you made just another comment, a larger comment, the first comment? Hehe, yet because it's you and people/fans know your web persona, they let it fly and you get away with your rants because they like the way you do it. Your web personality is made of game ranting, game developing ranting and so on.

Everything you do is more or less commenting on a subject (game, game developer, fan fiction, etc), but because you are a bit of an Internet sensation, you are not considered a troll, nor banned for the offensive words you use in videos sometimes/articles (we normal trolls get banned more often since our trolling isn't generating as many views and therefore money as your trolling does and upsets other members of the community). People adore you for it, they quote you for it, they love you for it. Basically you are an Internet troll, but seen as a professional troll, so therefore respected, so kudos to you for being a troll and getting paid for it. I think the rest of us "miserable cunts" as you would put it like the fact that you are voicing the obvious facts about gaming and the gaming community, and we applaud you for it, for the fact that maybe you are perceived as a troll with taste. So rock on! I wouldn't be surprised if this article you wrote was a remark you made yourself to yourself as well, so good on you for being self aware and if I got it wrong, well, it shouldn't matter, should it? after all, as you said, our comments should never matter because we are not professionals nor are we dedicated, or are we, otherwise why would we be trolling/commenting, criticizing in our primitive ways of using swear words like ... well you know. Cheers.
 

Luminous Chroma

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I honestly can't tell whether this article is meant to be serious or sarcastic. If it's sarcastic, then it deserves nothing more than a weary eye-roll before moving on to more relevant and useful conversations. If it's serious, then Yahtzee has just posted the stupidest, least self-aware, most vapid piece of work of his career.

TLDR: Either useless, or stupid and intentionally insulting. Step up your game, Mr. Croshaw.
 

Grimrider6

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I've never walked away from anything produced by Yahtzee that made me actively dislike him and want to stop reading/watching his stuff. Just a little bit more self-awareness, a self-deprecating one liner at the end, something to make this read like something beyond just ugly, bitter, angry, cynical bile would have really helped.

This is a very disappointing first...
 

immortalfrieza

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Qvar said:
immortalfrieza said:
Wrong. Just because he makes money off of his commenting does not make Yahtzee's comments any more valid than those of anyone else, including trolls. All it means is that he managed to scream loud enough to get enough attention to be able to make money off of his comments, it does not in the least prove his comments are more valid, just more well known.
Funny how you reduce the whole process to "scream loud enough" to make it look like he and other critics are kind of randomly chosen and a shower of money rains down on them from heavens, instead of being picked precisely because, yeah, somebody thought that their opinions are more interesting than that ones from the commoners, and in fact the commoners do agree (or else they would already be out of business).

Oh and before you try to argue that he's not a critic, he is a comedian, it is you who talked about validness of opinions, which isn't the same as value. He can be totally wrong, therefore not "valid", and still have more value, precisely because people find it entertaining anyways. And that is what got him there in the first place.
The fact is, Yahtzee is just lucky enough that his comments draw him a paycheck, nothing more, nothing less. Being paid for one's opinions does not mean that those opinions have more validity or value than anyone else's. As we all know, there are plenty of people who have tried to be critics, tried to be comedians, tried to be the one among the masses to be noticed and get paid for their comments but never succeeded despite those comments being no different in the end than Yahtzee's or Jim Sterling's or any of those people. What happened is Yahtzee shouted his comments from the rooftops along with everybody else until he was lucky enough to not get buried under the flood of comments when someone in a position of power saw them and decided to hire him for it, in his case the Escapist. Just because Yahtzee was fortunate enough to be noticed among the wave of commoners doesn't mean he isn't being a hypocrite for putting down other people's comments.
 

Aardvaarkman

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EvilRoy said:
They don't need to be careful of their words, they need to have a backlog against which we can qualify future opinions. They can be as biased or rude as they want, but having a face and a name guarantees that those things stay on the record rather than dying with each avatar and handle.
You're doing it wrong.

A person's writing should be judged on the content of that writing, not their track record or their status. You should judge things on their facts and merits, or in the case of opinion, how well thought-out and supported the opinion is, not who is comes from. It is entirely possible for person with status and a good track record to write something stupid and wrong, just as it is for someone antonymous to come out of nowhere and write something brilliant and true.

It happens all the time. Judging works by their perceived poplar status or amount of time that they've been writing is a terrible way to go about things. That's going to lead to all kinds of problems. Humans have been led down some terrible paths by this kind of thinking.
 

Qvar

OBJECTION!
Aug 25, 2013
387
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immortalfrieza said:
The fact is, Yahtzee is just lucky enough that his comments draw him a paycheck, nothing more, nothing less. Being paid for one's opinions does not mean that those opinions have more validity or value than anyone else's. As we all know, there are plenty of people who have tried to be critics, tried to be comedians, tried to be the one among the masses to be noticed and get paid for their comments but never succeeded despite those comments being no different in the end than Yahtzee's or Jim Sterling's or any of those people. What happened is Yahtzee shouted his comments from the rooftops along with everybody else until he was lucky enough to not get buried under the flood of comments when someone in a position of power saw them and decided to hire him for it, in his case the Escapist. Just because Yahtzee was fortunate enough to be noticed among the wave of commoners doesn't mean he isn't being a hypocrite for putting down other people's comments.
Please, you're making me laugh. Oh, cruel world where everybody writes as good as Tolkien, yet the publishers will select only one of them on a whim and mark it for consumption of the general populace. Those damn commies.

Same could be applied to games then I guess. Are publishers just blind idiots who will go ahead with the first garbage that someone tries to pass for a game?
 

Aardvaarkman

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Jul 14, 2011
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Nimcha said:
Just readin one small sample of the comments on this particular article pretty much proves its point...
No, by definition, it doesn't. If you are only reading one small sample, then ow do you know what the rest of it contains?

That's like saying that all artwork is crap, because if you take a random sample of any artwork, it is 90% likely to be crap, and not a Picasso or Shakespeare. Just like online videos or articles about video gaming published by large companies. The vast majority are crap. So, by that reasoning, Yahtzee's videos are crap too, right?
 

Psychobabble

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Aug 3, 2013
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Grimrider6 said:
I've never walked away from anything produced by Yahtzee that made me actively dislike him and want to stop reading/watching his stuff. Just a little bit more self-awareness, a self-deprecating one liner at the end, something to make this read like something beyond just ugly, bitter, angry, cynical bile would have really helped.

This is a very disappointing first...
In all fairness I personally believe what Yahtzee is actually ranting about is the current trend for game companies to try to shoehorn some kind of interconnected social networking horseshit into every gaming experience. Something that for most people IS absolutely fucking useless. I get this idea from Yahtzee's less than affectionate mentions of the silly and needless level comments in Super Mario 3D World, and the PS4 share button. As well as from his last paragraph this week where he mentions he plays games to escape the outside world, so resents these attempts to invade his fun time.
 

immortalfrieza

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Qvar said:
Please, you're making me laugh. Oh, cruel world where everybody writes as good as Tolkien, yet the publishers will select only one of them on a whim and mark it for consumption of the general populace. Those damn commies.
It's not about writing quality it's about luck. You can write the best damned book the world has ever seen but if you're not fortunate enough that the publishers that it's sent to even notice it's there among the hundreds of submissions they get each day. Then there's the opposite, you could write the worst load of bile book that ever graced the earth and if you're fortunate enough to send it to the right publisher get it published and sell a million copies (and I think we all have an idea of quite a few books that's just that). Commenting is just the same.
Same could be applied to games then I guess. Are publishers just blind idiots who will go ahead with the first garbage that someone tries to pass for a game?
Judging by the quality of a lot of the games that have come out lately I'd say definitely yes.
 

Qvar

OBJECTION!
Aug 25, 2013
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immortalfrieza said:
Judging by the quality of a lot of the games that have come out lately I'd say definitely yes.
Oh yeah? And they are making a lot of money too? Will they stay in business to keep their practice? Do you tend to play all those mediocre games as you read mediocre critics?
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
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immortalfrieza said:
The fact is, Yahtzee is just lucky enough that his comments draw him a paycheck, nothing more, nothing less.
I very much doubt it's just luck. He is a talented wordsmith and a pretty good comedian. You make it sound as if he was one of the many people creating videos of Zero Punctuation quality and just happened to win a lucky draw. That doesn't reflect reality. If Lady Luck suddenly awarded you Yahtzee's position, do you really think you'd be able to turn out consistently funny material with personality, week after week? Would you also be able to write novels while doing so?

That said, it's because Yahtzee is so talented that this unfunny hack-job of an article is so disappointing. I wonder if he's losing his self-awareness and edge as he slips into the comfortable bubble of "internet celebrity"?
 

Nimcha

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Aardvaarkman said:
Nimcha said:
Just readin one small sample of the comments on this particular article pretty much proves its point...
No, by definition, it doesn't. If you are only reading one small sample, then ow do you know what the rest of it contains?

That's like saying that all artwork is crap, because if you take a random sample of any artwork, it is 90% likely to be crap, and not a Picasso or Shakespeare. Just like online videos or articles about video gaming published by large companies. The vast majority are crap. So, by that reasoning, Yahtzee's videos are crap too, right?
No. Every single sample you read is crap. Just try any random one. Always crap.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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It's a matter of quality vs. quantity.

When a site/article/what have you is on a more niche website/a smaller website, there can be comments that actually have to do with the subject at hand and actually mean something. But when you get to the larger, broader, more general public comments section where it's just completely unfiltered, then it's much harder to wade through the crap and find the meaty, constructive comments. They get drowned out by too much fluff and it just becomes a meaningless blob of unproductive shouting contests/copypasta-ing.

100-200 comments that actually attempt to have something to say > 8000 comments spouting off a bunch of nothingness.
 

Aardvaarkman

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Jul 14, 2011
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Nimcha said:
No. Every single sample you read is crap. Just try any random one. Always crap.
Nice to see that you're making a difference with your quality contribution.
 

SweetShark

Shark Girls are my Waifus
Jan 9, 2012
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Kingjackl said:
SweetShark said:
Kingjackl said:
The worst part about this column is that Yahtzee himself has already seen for himself the value of user commentary and feedback. He did that when he released the beta of his new game, and specifically asked for feedback from anyone who played it. People commented and he used the information to make changes, fix bugs and add new features. But when other game publishers do it, he throws the written equivalent of a childish tantrum and puts it up on a website that makes heavy use of user comments. The level of hypocrisy and thick-headedness is astounding.

Also, that thing he put up on Twitter saying something like "oh, it's a commentary on comments, so you can't comment without looking foolish"? Yeah, if that's not an admission of failure, then I don't know what is. However foolish the commenters on this thread are, I don't see how they could possibly be more foolish than the one who wrote the article to begin with.
As I said, he only doing this for comedy to make the things more interesting.
Don't take his word so seriously.
If Yantzee was a Pony, he would had the Element of Disorder and Irony. He is good at that. But he isn't a bad Pony. He is a good Pony. We must Believe in him.
No, I'm with the crowd that understands his bitterness, self-loathing and misanthropy are all dead serious and that he needs to get over it. Seriously, what does Yahtzee have to be bitter about?

If it were comedy, I'd be laughing because there would have been actual jokes that were funny in that column. That wasn't funny, it was just petulant and mean-spirited, so I reckon I'm well within my rights to point out how hypocritical he's being.
So you truly believe that he think EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING that leave a comment about his videos/articles is an assh*le?
No, I don't think so.

Let's face it, the only reason the most people react with this article, is the use of the harsh language, which of course is one of the signatures of the personality Yantzee have. Yes, he believe that most comments are useless, because he think there is no way in reality to chance the opinions of other people, or to be more specific, Yantzee's opinion about a game.
Now the question is I agree with his opinion? Of course not. However I acknowledge that he doesn't just plaint said he hate comments. He addressed his reasons why he believe that.
Finally if we put his opinion about the comments AND his well-known comedy/harsh language into the mix....VOILA!!!
We have this article!!!
 

Battenberg

Browncoat
Aug 16, 2012
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Of course this article has 160+ comments in the space of a day(ish), and of course I feel the need to add mine. It's a shame there's no way to post a comment on an article like this without it being thick with irony but then the alternative is that people don't use this perfectly valid and convenient way to discuss the issue presented before us which, at least as far as I'm concerned, would be detrimental to the articles/ videos on The Escapist.

Admittedly there are plenty of people willing to post trivial, meaningless comments or go hunting 'likes' by claiming some small portion of the credit for someone else's joke. On the other hand there are those who post legitimately interesting points (either in support or countering the journalist's argument) and to lump all comment posters together as a big glob of 'boring twats' is a shortsighted generalisation at best, it would be equivalent to saying all movie critics are pretentious (something I had previously considered to be true), it may well be accurate for some but it tars genuinely valuable insight as being somehow worth less simply because of its origin.

In addition the comments section on your videos are a representation of your audience, a raw unrefined glimpse at some of the people who you are essentially relying on to watch your videos and ensure you have a continuous source of income (for an online journalist at least). If you don't like the people you are attracting then you have two options:
1) Deal with it - this option means not creating an article especially to call your audience twats because they enjoy discussing video games/ video game culture on your videos.
2) If you are unable to carry out option 1 you are left with just one alternative (excluding continuing to insult your fanbase until you longer have one) and that is to change the way you do your videos, which will invariably influence the kinds of comments you get and, more importantly, change which comments end up at the top of the pile through likes and replies. Jimquisition videos are a great example of this.

Years ago Jim Sterling was considerably angrier in his videos and more aggressive, the kinds of comments he got were, subsequently, not especially nice to read with many pointless and abusive arguments starting as a result. These days Jimquisition is incredibly refined, he is (usually) totally focused on presenting a logical and coherent argument that doesn't require him to resort to shouting/ ranting, and as a result I now consider it worth a few extra minutes to see what other people have said in relation to his videos because the comments are, on the whole, far more interesting and much less negative and ranty. As it stands the only other possible solution to Yahtzee's issue with commenters is to simply not include comments sections which I would consider a tremendous shame as the online community on this website is arguably one of its best features.
Honestly I found this whole article infuriating. I enjoy commenting here because I know it is often the best way to get stimulating conversation about video gaming. Saying things like "I consider it an insult that material created by trained people with experience and qualifications and talent is forced to share space on my computer screen with the musings of uninvolved people with no qualifications bar a keyboard and bottomless twattiness" doesn't come across well to me at all, in fact this is the first time that Yahtzee has posted anything that made me think less of/ like him less as a video game journalist, it just feels like an angry lashing out directly as a result of a few people's comments on Super Mario 3D World. Of course none of this matters because it's all in a comment rather than a video I was paid to make and at 160+ comments in there's little to no chance Yahtzee himself would ever read it but still, I felt like an article describing all commenters as twats was unnecessary/ inaccurate enough that it was worth taking 10 minutes out to present my own twattish counterargument, if only because I currently have the freedom to do so here.
 

ClockworkUniverse

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JenSeven said:
However, you forget that about 60% of the population is of lower intelligence (basically, an IQ rating below 90).
This is not just wrong; it's literally impossible. An IQ of 100 is defined as the score on the test for which an equal number of people performed better and worse. Thus, only 50% of the population can have an IQ below 100, and 50% can have an IQ over 100 (minus, of course, however many scored exactly 100).

To go into more detail, the system is intended to generate a bell curve, with around 68% of the population having IQs between 85 and 115, and around 95% having IQs between 70 and 130.

If we focus on low intelligence, only 15.8% of people have an intelligence a standard deviation below average.

And that's well before we get into the controversy of what an IQ test actually measures (though intended to be an inherent trait, people don't always perform equally well on it, and people with better educations perform better). But that's an entirely different can of worms, and my main point here is that you probably shouldn't make up facts, particularly when talking about intelligence.
 

Nimcha

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Aardvaarkman said:
Nimcha said:
No. Every single sample you read is crap. Just try any random one. Always crap.
Nice to see that you're making a difference with your quality contribution.
I never claimed I was. But really, comments, especially on a video or article about a certain view are almost always crap. Discussing things can be done on forums.
 

Kingjackl

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SweetShark said:
So you truly believe that he think EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING that leave a comment about his videos/articles is an assh*le?
No, I don't think so.

Let's face it, the only reason the most people react with this article, is the use of the harsh language, which of course is one of the signatures of the personality Yantzee have. Yes, he believe that most comments are useless, because he think there is no way in reality to chance the opinions of other people, or to be more specific, Yantzee's opinion about a game.
Now the question is I agree with his opinion? Of course not. However I acknowledge that he doesn't just plaint said he hate comments. He addressed his reasons why he believe that.
Finally if we put his opinion about the comments AND his well-known comedy/harsh language into the mix....VOILA!!!
We have this article!!!
Re-read the article and point out one thing he says in there that's actually comedic. The Academy Award manatee thing doesn't count, since he's just regurgitating a bit from a David Mitchell Soapbox rant that was funnier then. Also, I do believe he thinks that every human being who comments is a twat, because that's exactly what he says in his article. There's nothing wrong with harsh language, but the tone of the article is way too serious to be being ironic. It's disrespectful to the audience, and hypocritical of Yahtzee to decry this sort of thing since he arguably has more need for online comments than any of the big game publishers he's decrying.

If he is just joking, then it's a pretty bad joke is all I'm saying. We'd never be having this discussion about whether or not Jim Sterling really means it when he says "thank God for me", would we?
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
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Nimcha said:
I never claimed I was. But really, comments, especially on a video or article about a certain view are almost always crap. Discussing things can be done on forums.
That doesn't make any sense. This is a forum, and forums are composed of comments.
 

NSGrendel

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Seriously though. After Extra Credits and Rebecca Mayes jumped ship, Mr Croshaw is the only erudite individual left on The Escapist. Also, Total Biscuit knows lots about Starcraft and is totally representational of English people.
 

Klonoa Prower

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I believe the best sort of comment section would be one that says, "Your comment has been posted." after you type it... and then deletes it from the system.
 

deathjavu

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Dragonbums said:
deathjavu said:
I feel the same way about the comment sections on news sites. What, exactly, does a comment section add to a news story? The ability for random uninformed assholes to put their opinion on the same level as an actually researched story, and then for other assholes to have their shitty opinions reinforced by the first assholes.

Yes, yes, commenting on this article is ironic, let's get that joke out of the way early.
Please. There are more opinionated, biased stories written as news articles by the day. They are well researched confirmation biases. No better than the comments section where more often than not your likely to find a commenter that points out all the holes in said article but also provide counterpoints and less biased statements.
This is not what you find in comments sections. If it is there, it's massively outweighed by the piles of dogshit surrounding it. Which leads me neatly to confirmation bias, which is what I actually described: "and then for other assholes to have their shitty opinions reinforced by the first assholes," i.e., for people to go seek out irrational or disproven arguments in favor of their position, in the comments section.

The enabling of confirmation bias is exactly why the comments section is not beneficial. Before if someone disagreed, they had to go find a dissenting opinion elsewhere or form their own. Both of which are undoubtedly more involved and potentially educational than scrolling down a bit to see some random jackoff's ad hominem and taking that as an escape route.
 

deathjavu

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DeaDRabbiT said:
deathjavu said:
I feel the same way about the comment sections on news sites. What, exactly, does a comment section add to a news story? The ability for random uninformed assholes to put their opinion on the same level as an actually researched story, and then for other assholes to have their shitty opinions reinforced by the first assholes.

Yes, yes, commenting on this article is ironic, let's get that joke out of the way early.
Commenting on news stories, is no different than having a discussion about a news article on the train when people used to read the same newspaper as everyone else every day. It's an outlet for conversation and reflection.
Doesn't work as an analogy, no one interrupts with screaming obscenities and rape threats on the train.

Which is to say, the signal-to-noise ratio of a comments section is simply far, far too low on average to compare it to any sort of rational conversation where the actors are restrained to a bare minimum of decency, and a fairly minimal number of participants.

The worst part about the internet is the removal of most obstacles/barriers for publishing. Yes, previous obstacles and barriers were sometimes corrupt or faulty, and they managed to hold back a few innovative/creative types we would have enjoyed, but I greatly prefer a flawed filter to none at all. Now everyone on the planet self-publishes practically everything, and 95% of it is fucking retarded.

I guess I'm saying we've gained a few new voices that might have been stymied back in the day, but those fresh, intelligent producers are pretty well drown out by the vast surrounding oceans of mediocrity and idiocy.

The notion that all opinions are equally valid might be the root of some of the world's greatest ongoing problems.
I dunno about greatest, but certainly we have problems stemming from this. I hate to admit that the prevention of artistic creation is a good practice, but to some degree it does filter out the shit- and the internet has proven what a valuable service that is.

Could you imagine trying to pick a book from a library of everything that could be published on the internet? You would never find anything worth reading. Everything good is buried under mountainous piles of crap. And the library treats it as all the same, throws it up on the shelves and displays just the same.

Also, I saw that some people were having trouble distinguishing between an unmoderated comments section and a moderated forum? Which...really?
 

mrdude2010

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twm1709 said:
Well, we may be twats, but at least most of us can spell "probably" ;)
It was intended to be "provably." It is provably true that almost no comment has ever added anything to a video or article.
 

SweetShark

Shark Girls are my Waifus
Jan 9, 2012
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Kingjackl said:
SweetShark said:
So you truly believe that he think EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING that leave a comment about his videos/articles is an assh*le?
No, I don't think so.

Let's face it, the only reason the most people react with this article, is the use of the harsh language, which of course is one of the signatures of the personality Yantzee have. Yes, he believe that most comments are useless, because he think there is no way in reality to chance the opinions of other people, or to be more specific, Yantzee's opinion about a game.
Now the question is I agree with his opinion? Of course not. However I acknowledge that he doesn't just plaint said he hate comments. He addressed his reasons why he believe that.
Finally if we put his opinion about the comments AND his well-known comedy/harsh language into the mix....VOILA!!!
We have this article!!!
Re-read the article and point out one thing he says in there that's actually comedic. The Academy Award manatee thing doesn't count, since he's just regurgitating a bit from a David Mitchell Soapbox rant that was funnier then. Also, I do believe he thinks that every human being who comments is a twat, because that's exactly what he says in his article. There's nothing wrong with harsh language, but the tone of the article is way too serious to be being ironic. It's disrespectful to the audience, and hypocritical of Yahtzee to decry this sort of thing since he arguably has more need for online comments than any of the big game publishers he's decrying.

If he is just joking, then it's a pretty bad joke is all I'm saying. We'd never be having this discussion about whether or not Jim Sterling really means it when he says "thank God for me", would we?
But my friend, I never said I liked this use of his comedy in this specific article.
I just said Yantzee have an opinion, a false opinion for me, but still he have his reasons. And I respect that.
Now do I think again Yatzee by calling all the peoples twats is a good comedy? Not in this article.
I have more serious things to get angry about than him anyways. In the real world that is.
 

Bertylicious

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I for one worry about Yahtzee; he seems to have very negative feelings towards his own jism. It's always "wank stain" this and "smelling of off milk" that. Our semen is a part of us and we are allowed to love ourselves!

Perhaps using more upbeat terms such as "love cream" or "joy juice" would be a positive move?
 

Casual Shinji

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SweetShark said:
So you truly believe that he think EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING that leave a comment about his videos/articles is an assh*le?
No, I don't think so.
You can't really blame people for thinking that, as this article comes across as a giant, unprovoked 'fuck you' to anyone whose ever posted a comment on one of Yahtzee's videos or articles. Anyone who is a fan and genuinely wanted to share their opinions on what he discussed. Maybe even in the hope of reaching out to him.

Now it's no secret Yahtzee wouldn't be caught dead on the forums here, but to suddenly turn around and attack everyone else who does spend their time here is a dick move.

Even if it is all just a joke (people can't comment on this LOL), it's one at the expense of his own audience for his own personal amusement.
 

AgentLampshade

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I'm just here to laugh at the irony of this article topping the "most commented" section.

Y'know, I've always had the impression Yahtzee never actually read any comments of his anyway, aside from maybe emails sent to him.
 

Bad Jim

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Dragonbums said:
I personally think it's a very selfish, self centered, stupid rant where he doesn't even really acknowledge that perhaps his stuff may be deemed by others to be a waste of digital ink and he should shut up.
You only hear what he has to say if you actually click on his content. If you don't want his opinion you won't get it. But you'll get the opinion of every retard on the internet under the content you actually want, regardless of whether you wanted them.

And some sites like Youtube make it even worse by having strict character limits, so if you ever want to say anything intelligent you find you don't have the space. It's a retard-only system.
 

SweetShark

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Jan 9, 2012
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Casual Shinji said:
SweetShark said:
So you truly believe that he think EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING that leave a comment about his videos/articles is an assh*le?
No, I don't think so.
You can't really blame people for thinking that, as this article comes across as a giant, unprovoked 'fuck you' to anyone whose ever posted a comment on one of Yahtzee's videos or articles. Anyone who is a fan and genuinely wanted to share their opinions on what he discussed. Maybe even in the hope of reaching out to him.

Now it's no secret Yahtzee wouldn't be caught dead on the forums here, but to suddenly turn around and attack everyone else who does spend their time here is a dick move.

Even if it is all just a joke (people can't comment on this LOL), it's one at the expense of his own audience for his own personal amusement.
But even he said he hate comments, he also wanted to hear us telling our opinion about his new game Consuming Shadow.
If he though all our comment are useless, he would never made some change for his game. He would had just said:

"f*ck them! I am a superior human Being and I never made a mistake. My new game is a masterpiece and everyone must suck it to their dirty dry mouths. Thank God for me!!!! [plot twist!!]"

He don't think all of us are assh*les. He just made a big bad joke for hating specific type of comments in the wrong time.
I mean, think about. What if his mother one day want to leave a comment in one of his videos/articles? I can't even think of this heresy...
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Sectan said:
Isn't Yahtzee basically just part of the comment section that is Vidogamez Jurnalizm?
This sums up a lot of it.

When's the last time any of these games provided anything other than free PR or criticism of vague, overhanging abstract concepts?

Imagine these guys trying to expose anything? :D
 

MaddKossack115

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themilo504 said:
When it comes to videos I think that comments are great for feedback and I find It funny that a reviewer can?t see that.
I think that's because Yahtzhee looked up too many comments that, like he said, either repeat the funniest bits, expands the funny stuff to the point the joke is beaten to death, or just gives dumbass stuff contributing absolutely nothing (like "FIRST!" or the long, rambling, "insane troll logic" arguments). Believe me, I could guess a guy already as cynical as Yahtzee would just give the fuck up on comments after reading 100 comments like that - I only reckon there's only 1 to 3 comments that give legitimate feedback out of about 300 dumbass comments, and that Yahtzee isn't the sort to think it's worth it to find a gem of a comment out of hundreds of dumbass ones.

themilo504 said:
I don?t really get the point of comments in games but it?s not like it?s hurting somebody unless you try to make it a problem like you?re doing.
Well true, and I think Yahtzee shot himself in the foot when he basically admitted "I could have turned off the comments, but then I wouldn't have gotten to complain about it". What, he couldn't just take the option to turn them off, and then complain that we should really turn the comment option off first chance we get?

That said, the comments option definitely seemed out of place for a Mario game, and Yahtzee is right in that any comments would be too late to change the game design. The comments option would probably work better for multiplayer-oriented games (like FPS-deathmatch games, MMORPGs, LoL/DOTA, etc.), or games planning to use lots of DLCs/patches post-release. True, this may only end up aiding-and-abetting the crime of "releasing a game before it's finished", but at least you'd be able to tell off the idiots who made an unfinished game straight off, and not waste time marching over to a computer, looking up the forums, and writing the comment there.
 

Tim Chuma

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Didn't Charlie Brooker already do this line?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/28/too-much-talk-charlie-brooker

At least now you've got it off your chest you don't have to do another "I hate comments" piece. Wasn't there are video in the early days where Yahtzee read out all the worst comments?
 

Kittyhawk

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Ben, you shouldn't let hecklers get to you. There will always be those who seek to splurge opinion without thinking things through, but you'll get that anywhere. And since it was a Nintendo related piece that ruffled your ire, that doesn't surprise at all.

We get it, you can criticize or praise anything on the internets, except Nintendo (cough cough, rubbish!). Some of the staunch fans are beyond any reasonable point and counter point debate, a real pity for all gamers. Some treat them like the robot gaming Pope or something, when that's not true.

Besides, you can't have the smooth without some roughage. There are a lot of good comments online, that deserve to be read, than some of the ill thought drivel beyond reading that's around.
 

Areloch

It's that one guy
Dec 10, 2012
623
0
0
MaddKossack115 said:
Well true, and I think Yahtzee shot himself in the foot when he basically admitted "I could have turned off the comments, but then I wouldn't have gotten to complain about it". What, he couldn't just take the option to turn them off, and then complain that we should really turn the comment option off first chance we get?
I can't say I'm fond of this line of reasoning, even if most of the time it's completely correct. There's lots of stuff where it makes sense to just 'turn it off', but that shouldn't excuse completely flawed designs.
There are very few situations I can think of where letting players throw down commentary on the level/game IN the level/game where it not only doesn't destroy immersion into the game, but actually makes sense.

The only one that comes to mind is Dark Souls, which restricted user comments to semi-predetermined phrases, all of which were oriented towards the gameplay as it happened. Turning it off didn't really lose you much, but you'd sometimes get useful hints or at least some amusing comments about what's happening as you experience it yourself.

But If you were to try and drop user comments into most other games, it doesn't make nearly as much sense. Mario, Zelda, Unreal Tournament, Mass Effect, and so on.
Sure, you could turn off the feature, but if it adds exactly nothing, and likely directly inhibits the game experience, why is it there at all?

As for the article, I can't say I was bothered by it. It was, as I read it, intentionally overzealous to get a rise out of people that think they were being insulted - but as others pointed out, he's directly asked for comments on stuff he makes before, like his games.

I think it's less 'no one should ever talk other than content creators' and more 'if the comments aren't, or even CANNOT be relevant, why would we even allow it?'
Rules on the forums here keep things from being snap comments, and as on-topic as possible. Random facebook comments, or basically anything on youtube will never have that, and so it makes you question why you would want that garbage to share space with the content you put effort into producing.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

New member
Aug 8, 2007
11,049
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The quality of comment sections depend on the community that posts there. That's why comments sections where everyone and their illiterate, Republican uncle can post are usually the worst (Yahoo New, Youtube). I personally enjoy the comments on AVClub and Badass Digest, because the people who read those websites tend to be intelligent, legitimately funny people (even Cracked has some interesting comments sometimes).

For some reason, video games comments sections tend to be a special kind of awful, and it's because of the kind of people predominately post there. They're usually smart(but not as smart as they think they are), yet overly defensive and argumentative. They like things to be objective and logical, even something as subject as art (which games are). They relish the opportunity to prove that someone is Wrong, though they will never ever admit wrongness themselves. They are basically Nerds of the highest order, and often they are the face of the gaming community.

Every article that suggests it might be nice if there were more girls in games gets met with 100 comments demanding an ironclad proof that feminism isn't an elaborate ruse to bring down men. Every GOTY article is ruthlessly compared to the commenters own, and judged by the degree they match. Every games review must be Objectively correct (aka the reviewer liked it in just the same way as the commenters), and there is no room for Personal Bias (aka the thing that makes the review interesting to read). Every game is objectively Good or Bad, and their quality can be conveyed in a single number; god help you if the number you gave a game doesn't match the number that Metacritic gave it. Every grammar error must be pointed out, and every disagreement must be argued for at least 10 pages (because neither side is interested in considering the viewpoint of the other).

I can see why Yahtzee would grow tired of comments, because, unfortunately, the Escapist community kind of represents all of these traits. It doesn't matter what you people are talking about, it will turn into a petty debate almost every time. You can do better.

If anyone disagrees with this, they are welcome to quote and then refute each and every sentence and word that I've written, to the extent that their single comment is 15 pages long.

Edit: And to everyone brilliantly pointing out that Yahtzee's job is to "comment on" things: you missed the point. For one, Yahtzee is actually interesting and funny, which is why he gets paid to do what he does. For another, he isn't actually complaining about the very idea of commenting on things. It's just that internet comment sections specifically are a special kind of awful, because there is no requirement to be interesting, funny, or intelligent to post your thoughts.
 

Psychobabble

. . . . . . . .
Aug 3, 2013
525
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TopazFusion said:
[HEADING=1]PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT[/HEADING]

Far too many people in this thread seem to be unaware of the forum rules.

Specifically this part:
[HEADING=2]Have Respect for the Site and its Content[/HEADING]
Regardless of what some of our content creators may say, do or provoke within their videos or articles, this does not give members the ability to act in the same way. They are entertainers and if they brought their language or flaming into the forums, they would be held accountable, just as any other forum member of The Escapist would be.
I suggest to everyone, before making a post in this thread, go read the forum rules.

Do not insult out content contributors.
If you cannot keep insults out of your posts, remember you always have the option of simply not fucking posting.
Well as one who didn't get offended by Yahtzee's article, I still feel this response by a forum mod is rather unprofessionally hostile. I think I'll take Yahtzee's comment about the only benefit of commenting being the enjoyment of the commenter, and your less than professional response to heart, and from now on enjoy myself the most by refraining from positing at all. Should help make your job pretty fucking easy.

It's been fun fellow escapists, but from now on I think it best to comport myself here as a dead man and just return to the land of the lurking. Tatty bye.
 

Dragonbums

Indulge in it's whiffy sensation
May 9, 2013
3,307
0
0
TopazFusion said:
[HEADING=1]PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT[/HEADING]

Far too many people in this thread seem to be unaware of the forum rules.

Specifically this part:
[HEADING=2]Have Respect for the Site and its Content[/HEADING]
Regardless of what some of our content creators may say, do or provoke within their videos or articles, this does not give members the ability to act in the same way. They are entertainers and if they brought their language or flaming into the forums, they would be held accountable, just as any other forum member of The Escapist would be.
I suggest to everyone, before making a post in this thread, go read the forum rules.

Do not insult out content contributors.
If you cannot keep insults out of your posts, remember you always have the option of simply not fucking posting.
And this is where I have to disagree with the rule.

I'm not directing this at you, I'm directing this at whoever person/peoples decided that this rule was even remotely fair.
I do not think that it is anywhere near fair for us to get warnings/bans for insulting other users, or people of various group affiliations, yet your content contributors are not held to that same standard. I disagree with the notion that Yahtzee is able to call all of us braindead commenting twats with no repercussions to him visible to the community, and we cannot respond back likewise.

Why should- for pure example here- MovieBob go into great lengths to talk about how black people are honest to God useless trash, and token characters, and as such should never be allowed on the big screens in Hollywood esque movies. His justifying is that why hire a good black actor with nothing to really back up their career, when you can go for the true, profitable, white character? As such, the comments would be rife with offended POC and all manners of social political backlash. A cesspit that was created solely because an Escapist staff decided that they were going to write a piece of inflammatory racism and slap that on the front page.

Any other user that pulled something like that would have a locked thread and a ban. But apparently in people like Yahtzee's case we have to sit down and eat the crap while he gets away with making an article that doesn't even begin to start up an interesting discussion. Anita threads have more discussion content than this.

I cannot have respect for the sites' content if they are nothing more than inflammatory posts meant to rile up the community. That is something nowhere near respectable, and articles like this would make Escapist no better than those sensational shill websites that are all for flamebait clicks and money.

You say that if we can't make a post without lacing it with insults, then don't post at all? Fine.

However if a content creator can't write a paid article without insulting not only the community, but the very people he relies on for a paycheck, then same to them. Either you don't post that article/video, or you proofread the thing until it is at a respectable language that's above paid [that word we aren't supposed to say on the Escapist] and flamebaiting.
 

Duffy13

New member
May 18, 2009
65
0
0
Dragonbums said:
*snip*

And this is where I have to disagree with the rule.

*snip*
Well that's kind of his point and the satire/irony of his post. Instead of refuting or discussing the actual content, commentors offer insults and ad-hominem attacks. Even if the speech in question is insulting for whatever reason, answering in the same way adds nothing. With a large enough audience and the subjective essence of opinion pieces the odds of 'insulting' someone are close to 100%, thus the comments regardless of what is said will frequently be 'crap' once you hit a certain threshold. Just going through the 7 pages of comments how many of them are useless agreements or attempts to insult the author? Quite a few. That is not a discussion, that is playground bullying. His post even leaves room for 'good' comments but almost no one has mentioned that.

I close with my general answer to opinions I don't like but don't feel like arguing about:
"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
1,262
0
0
Casual Shinji said:
Now it's no secret Yahtzee wouldn't be caught dead on the forums here, but to suddenly turn around and attack everyone else who does spend their time here is a dick move.

Even if it is all just a joke (people can't comment on this LOL), it's one at the expense of his own audience for his own personal amusement.
I think even worse than that, it's a huge 'fuck you' to The Escapist itself. The company pays to provide the infrastructure for comments forum, and even hires moderators in an attempt to raise the standards. And yet, Yahtzee lumps all comments in with YouTube comments.

How about a response from one of The Escapist's editors in defence of the community and forum here? I'm not holding my breath though, As The Escapist itself has crapped over these forums by putting that Facebook rubbish on the actual content pages, and relegating actual site members' (some of us paying customers) comments to the ghetto.

Instead of the Facebook comments, why not put a 'featured' comment from the forums on the content page, instead? Escapist staff members could pick the best comments and feature them there. This would give an incentive to people to actually write more thoughtful comments. The approach taken by a moderator here doesn't seem the best - it's all stick and no carrot.

This is where Yahtzee's negativity on the subject is particularly corrosive, as it's so defeatist. To the point that we even have forum posters here saying that comments suck, in their own comments, I think Yahtzee's article is only going to make The Escapist more negative about its own comments section. Instead, how about The Escapist stands up for its forums as something to be proud of, and something worth putting effort into improving? It currently feels like the company sees the comments as some sort of vestigial organ, something it is slightly embarrassed by, but can't get rid of.

It doesn't have to be that way. Rather than wallowing in the "comments suck" misery, how about an effort towards "other comments may suck, but our comments are of a much higher standard"?
 

Dragonbums

Indulge in it's whiffy sensation
May 9, 2013
3,307
0
0
Duffy13 said:
Well that's kind of his point and the satire/irony of his post.
Except for the fact that we have no way of knowing if this article is satire or irony. When it comes to Zero Punctuation the video series, he's putting on an act. Yet when he's on Extra Punctuation, it's a lot more personal, real, and how he actually feels on the subject. Hence why him complaining about the comments in SM3DW on his video review didn't really bother anyone, yet him complaining about it here in conjunction with him lashing out at comments in general.




Instead of refuting or discussing the actual content, commentors offer insults and ad-hominem attacks.
A few comments out of the entire thread. It's the difference between a well thought discussion thread like MovieBob's "Pink is not the problem" video thread, and Yahtzee's thread right now. If the poster in question presented a good, calm, well mannered, discussion with reasonable points, you are bound to have a whole lot more interesting points brought up in the discussion then ad hominem attacks, and insults. As such, Yahtzee's article was negative, vile, insulting, and inflammatory. Expect your "discussion comments" to mirror that kind of post.
I honestly don't know where you have been if your seriously telling me you have rarely seen a thread where commentors are actually talking about the subject at hand.




Even if the speech in question is insulting for whatever reason, answering in the same way adds nothing.
If inflammatory comments from both sides add nothing to the discussion, why the heck should Content Contributors be exempt from appropriate punishment of insults and flamebaiting that the other side would receive? It's a huge imbalance of power.




With a large enough audience and the subjective essence of opinion pieces the odds of 'insulting' someone are close to 100%, thus the comments regardless of what is said will frequently be 'crap' once you hit a certain threshold. Just going through the 7 pages of comments how many of them are useless agreements or attempts to insult the author? Quite a few. That is not a discussion, that is playground bullying. His post even leaves room for 'good' comments but almost no one has mentioned that.

Discussions are just that. Discussions. They will be filled with disagreements, agreements, insults (that are promptly dealt with anyway) and everything in between. When you hit the 7 page threshold, most people just get bored and move on. Others skip pages 1-6 and start at 7 because they want to see only recent comments. Often times new discussions and points arise from those late pages, and extend the thread maybe even 6 more pages.

Yahtzee's posts do not leave any room for good comments because he even said that anyone who comments are basically self satisfying their own egos by posting opinions that will never mean a damn to him, to anyone on the Escapist, and to anyone else on the internet. So by me posting here according to his twitter rebuttal of the comments- I'm still a fucking "twat" because I commented.

The only good that came out of this article are that users that are once again praising Yahtzee for being a genius and that comments ARE dumb not realizing that they are equally stupid for so much as posting a stupid comment stating how stupid comments have become. Their own being nothing but a waste of miniscule kilobytes.
 

medv4380

The Crazy One
Feb 26, 2010
669
0
0
Hate to say this, but this is just a case of Old Man Syndrome. Hits around the age of 30.

Nintendo, in their crazy wisdom, hit it right on the head. Somehow...

Lets get a couple of things strait. Facebook has become a haven for old people. Not me, I hate it, and I only use Google+ because I've been forced into it. Kids tend to favor Twitter, and snap chat type social networks. As seen here [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/12/29/0416259/researchers-claim-facebook-is-dead-and-buried-to-many-young-users] Facebook is dead, Twitter is in.

How Nintendo knew that Twitter style social networking was going to be the direction everything was going in for the youth is beyond me, but they hit it spot on. I don't personally like any of the Social media messaging stuff, but I'm old, and value my privacy a bit more than most.

Hate of the activities of the youth is a tradition of the old.
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
1,262
0
0
medv4380 said:
Hate of the activities of the youth is a tradition of the old.
And it's a bloody fine tradition, thank you very much! Now get off my lawn.
 

immortalfrieza

Elite Member
Legacy
May 2, 2020
2,012
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53
Country
USA
Dragonbums said:
TopazFusion said:
[HEADING=1]PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT[/HEADING]

Far too many people in this thread seem to be unaware of the forum rules.

Specifically this part:
[HEADING=2]Have Respect for the Site and its Content[/HEADING]
Regardless of what some of our content creators may say, do or provoke within their videos or articles, this does not give members the ability to act in the same way. They are entertainers and if they brought their language or flaming into the forums, they would be held accountable, just as any other forum member of The Escapist would be.
I suggest to everyone, before making a post in this thread, go read the forum rules.

Do not insult out content contributors.
If you cannot keep insults out of your posts, remember you always have the option of simply not fucking posting.
And this is where I have to disagree with the rule.

I'm not directing this at you, I'm directing this at whoever person/peoples decided that this rule was even remotely fair.
I do not think that it is anywhere near fair for us to get warnings/bans for insulting other users, or people of various group affiliations, yet your content contributors are not held to that same standard. I disagree with the notion that Yahtzee is able to call all of us braindead commenting twats with no repercussions to him visible to the community, and we cannot respond back likewise.

Why should- for pure example here- MovieBob go into great lengths to talk about how black people are honest to God useless trash, and token characters, and as such should never be allowed on the big screens in Hollywood esque movies. His justifying is that why hire a good black actor with nothing to really back up their career, when you can go for the true, profitable, white character? As such, the comments would be rife with offended POC and all manners of social political backlash. A cesspit that was created solely because an Escapist staff decided that they were going to write a piece of inflammatory racism and slap that on the front page.

Any other user that pulled something like that would have a locked thread and a ban. But apparently in people like Yahtzee's case we have to sit down and eat the crap while he gets away with making an article that doesn't even begin to start up an interesting discussion. Anita threads have more discussion content than this.

I cannot have respect for the sites' content if they are nothing more than inflammatory posts meant to rile up the community. That is something nowhere near respectable, and articles like this would make Escapist no better than those sensational shill websites that are all for flamebait clicks and money.

You say that if we can't make a post without lacing it with insults, then don't post at all? Fine.

However if a content creator can't write a paid article without insulting not only the community, but the very people he relies on for a paycheck, then same to them. Either you don't post that article/video, or you proofread the thing until it is at a respectable language that's above paid [that word we aren't supposed to say on the Escapist] and flamebaiting.
^This is pretty much what I was about to post, well done. It's true, if you want people to respect the rules you shouldn't exempt yourself or others from following them, especially not for arbitrary reasons. If the content creators have the right to insult and belittle the commenters, then the commenters have the right to respond in kind.

Besides, being what they are, the content creators and moderators and so forth have a responsibility to set an example for everybody else, and Yahtzee here is setting a pretty poor one.
 

Colt47

New member
Oct 31, 2012
1,065
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It really comes down to whether or not the person commenting takes the time to think out what they are trying to post. There are plenty of people who comment on public forums that take what they say seriously, though not everyone proof reads their own work before letting it go live, allowing the momentum of the discussion carry them instead of generating their own opinion.

But Dragonburns, the statement that these comments are a waste is disingenuous, because even if everyone on the Escapist doesn't look at it us commentators are looking at it and responding. Our discussion is between ourselves, not between us and Yahtzee (unless he for some reason decides to descend into the chaos as well.)

Edit: Note I'm not white knighting Yahtzee's comment because it is down right problematic in many ways.
 

Dragonbums

Indulge in it's whiffy sensation
May 9, 2013
3,307
0
0
Colt47 said:
But Dragonburns, the statement that these comments are a waste is disingenuous, because even if everyone on the Escapist doesn't look at it us commentators are looking at it and responding. Our discussion is between ourselves, not between us and Yahtzee (unless he for some reason decides to descend into the chaos as well.)
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your phrasing, but I don't think I said these comments are a waste? Either way, that's what I was saying anyway. I completely disagree with Yahtzee. Comments he deems as completely fucking useless are useful for other people. It's a total disrespect for what Escapist is. The whole point of his job is to make articles/videos and people have a discussion about said content in the resulting thread. If you- the content creator sees no value in it then fine. Disappear to real life land or whatever and come back next week to post more content. However don't even think of suggesting the abolishment of comments because you feel that your work is too damn good to be discussed by "unqualified twats" who may or may not have anything worthwhile to say.

All the while once again complaining about the completely optional, easily avoidable comments splurges at the end of the SM3DW levels, and openly admitting that he was aware that you could turn the damn thing off- and the game even ASKS YOU if you want to turn off the comments after each level before you even start the fucking game just so he would have something to complain about in the video review.
And let's just say that you couldn't really avoid the comments at the end of the levels in SM3DW- is it really that bad? Is it really? You wont' find spoilers because you already beat the level yourself. It's simply a fun little thing where you get to see other people's first impressions of the level. Regardless of how stupid they are. They aren't there to be meaningful in any way. It just makes you the player of this particular game unit, more in touch with others around the world playing it as well. Especially when there is no online multiplayer. But of course, Yahtzee doesn't like it, so Nintendo is stupid for implementing it, and as such they should of gotten rid of it because a party pooper British guy doesn't like comments ranging from "hidden star under the tree" to " I LOVE SAND" when playing a game that's all about togetherness and playing with living flesh beings in the same room as you.
 

IceForce

Is this memes?
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
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TopazFusion said:
They are entertainers and if they brought their language or flaming into the forums, they would be held accountable, just as any other forum member of The Escapist would be.
Yeah, I call bullshit on this.

Low content: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.398156.16275670
Calling another user a troll: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.834524.20420620
Calling another user illiterate: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.829148.20201954

Why have these users not been held accountable? The forum rules say they should be, so I'd be interested to know why nothing has been done here.
TopazFusion said:
[HEADING=2]Have Respect for the Site and its Content[/HEADING]
How about no.

How does the Escapist expect people to respect the site and its content, when you have staff and contributors insulting the users here with impunity, without any repercussions?

The first step to getting people to respect your site is to NOT have one-sided forum rules.
 

IceForce

Is this memes?
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
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Psychobabble said:
TopazFusion said:
If you cannot keep insults out of your posts, remember you always have the option of simply not fucking posting.
Well as one who didn't get offended by Yahtzee's article, I still feel this response by a forum mod is rather unprofessionally hostile. I think I'll take Yahtzee's comment about the only benefit of commenting being the enjoyment of the commenter, and your less than professional response to heart, and from now on enjoy myself the most by refraining from positing at all. Should help make your job pretty fucking easy.

It's been fun fellow escapists, but from now on I think it best to comport myself here as a dead man and just return to the land of the lurking. Tatty bye.
I find it interesting how, instead of addressing a clearly broken part of the forum rules, the mods just tell people to "stop posting".

Well, if everyone stopped posting, there wouldn't be a forum. So that's hardly a solution.
 

medv4380

The Crazy One
Feb 26, 2010
669
0
0
TopazFusion said:
If you cannot keep insults out of your posts, remember you always have the option of simply not [Sensored] posting.
What exactly is your bar for obscene language, and abuse of caps, and what is the site policy for rants?

The last warning I got about "offending" the contributor got overturned. Something about me being actually constructive, but pointing out errors, and contradictions was just too condescending for the moderator.

Several of the "warned" posts are little more than disagreements, with an obscenity or two, that point out the Irony of Yahtzee asking that everyone, but himself and those he agrees with be censored. After all what is Extra Punctuation, but commentary. If profanity was the bar then there is a few posts that should have been reported, and if that really is a censor just put an auto censor on the site. Your own post certainly doesn't pass the bar of profanity as well.

You can disagree with whatever you like but using large amounts of obscene language and CAPS is against our policies.
According to this, I wonder where I got it, I'm free to disagree with whatever I want. That would include the opinion of a contributor. I just need to avoid Obscene Language, and Caps.
 

Roxas1359

Burn, Burn it All!
Aug 8, 2009
33,758
0
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Aardvaarkman said:
and even hires moderators in an attempt to raise the standards.
Just so you know, the Escapist does not hire any of the mods here. All of the mods on the Escapist are volunteers, going out of their way to help make the Escapist better. Mods aren't paid for their work in the slightest.
 

Racecarlock

New member
Jul 10, 2010
2,497
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0
I get it yahtzee, you hate people. And yet, not only did you post a mailbag showdown in 2008, but you opened a bar, one of the most social settings imaginable.

And, you know, for someone who hates social media so very much, you sure do have a twitter account that still exists.

Then again, why am I surprised? You are, after all, the same man who put skyrim in his top 5 best list one year to specifically encourage less linear games and then started bitching and blaming us when you got exactly what you wanted. Seriously, go back, watch top 5 of 2010, then read the article you posted after ride to hell. I know humans can change their mind, but sometimes you seem to have multiple personality disorder.

Plus, if you really hated humanity that much, you wouldn't have shown up at the last escapist expo. Also, I do believe you now host a gaming show on youtube called "Let's Drown Out" with someone else who I believe is human at this current point in time.

You want to be the lonely introvert because that's apparently cool these days, but I've seen you take Q&As and enjoy yourself. Yes, it would be nice if twats didn't exist, but we don't live in candyland. Get used to it, dude.
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
1,262
0
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Neronium said:
Aardvaarkman said:
and even hires moderators in an attempt to raise the standards.
Just so you know, the Escapist does not hire any of the mods here. All of the mods on the Escapist are volunteers, going out of their way to help make the Escapist better. Mods aren't paid for their work in the slightest.
Well, that's a pretty bad sign, then. For a couple of reasons:

1. The Escapist doesn't care enough about its community to pay the moderators? For shame.

2. A for-profit company has volunteers? The Escapist is not a charity - why are people volunteering for it? Is that even legal? Most civilized countries have labor laws that prohibit exploiting free labor unless it's for a charity or something.
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
1,262
0
0
IceForce said:
Well, if everyone stopped posting, there wouldn't be a forum. So that's hardly a solution.
Oh, I disagree. It's obviously the solution that The Escapist wants, as a business. After all, not having to run forums involves a decrease in overhead costs. Of course, it also involves a loss of traffic, and therefore revenue, so that's the conundrum. If they could eliminate the comments without also experiencing a drop in traffic, I'm sure they'd do it in a heartbeat.
 

Roxas1359

Burn, Burn it All!
Aug 8, 2009
33,758
0
0
Aardvaarkman said:
Well, that's a pretty bad sign, then. For a couple of reasons:

1. The Escapist doesn't care enough about its community to pay the moderators? For shame.

2. A for-profit company has volunteers? The Escapist is not a charity - why are people volunteering for it? Is that even legal? Most civilized countries have labor laws that prohibit exploiting free labor unless it's for a charity or something.
Um that's it's always been. Yes it is legal to do that because it is volunteer work, and I appreciate them volunteering given the amount of stuff they have to deal with. The Community Manager manages the mods and makes sure they are not abusing their power as well, that's how it goes. It's not a shame in the slightest, because if you are shaming the Escpaist for it then you might as well shame all other forums that have volunteer moderators who aren't paid. The people volunteer because they want to help make the Escapist a better and less hostile place, doesn't matter if it's profit or not, and many of the mods have been here for quite a long time and feel attached to this place and wanna make sure it doesn't get out of control. The mods help the staff so then the staff can work on other things that the mods are unable to do.
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
1,262
0
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Neronium said:
Yes it is legal to do that because it is volunteer work,
But in many countries it's not sufficient to simply deem a job "volunteer work" - you have to have a good reason for it being volunteer work. This also seems to be a problem in the US where "interns" are basically used by many companies as a form of free labor. Other countries are much stricter about the terms of employment for interns - in that that they are supposed to be temporary, educational, and not a substitute for paid employees.

Even if it's legal under the USA's backwards labor laws, doesn't make it right.

Neronium said:
It's not a shame in the slightest, because if you are shaming the Escpaist for it then you might as well shame all other forums that have volunteer moderators who aren't paid.
I'll gladly shame them too.

Neronium said:
The people volunteer because they want to help make the Escapist a better and less hostile place, doesn't matter if it's profit or not...
Yes, it does matter. Although they might want to help, these people are not only hurting themselves, they are hurting other employees in the web industry by undervaluing that position. If companies consider moderation to be a job that can be done with free labor, then why would they hire professional moderators? It's just as much a valid job as being a columnist, editor or content contributor.

Aside from being just as valid a job, moderators also don;t get any of the glamor or celebrity that the other, well-paid contributors do. It's pretty disgusting that they have to do the crappy jobs, so that others can skim more profit in their more comfortable jobs.

Neronium said:
...and many of the mods have been here for quite a long time and feel attached to this place and wanna make sure it doesn't get out of control.
So, Stockholm Syndrome, essentially?

The fact that they have been here for a long time is even more reason that they should be paid.
 

Amir Kondori

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I take it Yahtzee sees himself as one of the "trained people with experience and qualifications and talent". Which no one would have known prior to his Youtube videos. Of course some people would probably quibble the above idea at all, I guess we will find out by reading the comments section.

Personally I think Yahtzee is way off base here. There is a lot of garbage in comments sections here, on Youtube, anywhere people are allowed to make comments really. But there is also a lot of great communication and exchange of ideas going on as well.

I consider myself pretty connected. I post on a few forums and even the wasteland that is Youtube daily. I've been able to learn things this way, to teach things this way, to see other points of views, to learn about new games or see old games in a new light. On the whole it has been enriching to be able to talk to so many different people across the web, and it is especially helpful to have a springboard to discussion, such as one of Yahtzee's videos or articles.

Maybe I'm the only one, but seeing how many people continue to comment all across the web I don't think I am.
 

Mad World

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Aardvaarkman said:
You make some very valid points. Seeing as how this is not a non-profit website (I assume that you're correct in that), it doesn't seem right in having volunteer moderators.

I've always wondered how often moderators are paid. I used to frequent Bethesda's forums, and wondered if their mods were paid or not. And EA's forums (specifically, Battlefield's)... knowing EA, nope (found one example of a moderator on their Need For Speed forum, and they were not paid).
 

IceForce

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Aardvaarkman said:
Although they might want to help, these people are not only hurting themselves, they are hurting other employees in the web industry by undervaluing that position. If companies consider moderation to be a job that can be done with free labor, then why would they hire professional moderators? It's just as much a valid job as being a columnist, editor or content contributor.
I always assumed they were paid.

Just like how exam marker moderators are paid to moderate the marking of academic exams.
 

Atmos Duality

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Amir Kondori said:
Personally I think Yahtzee is way off base here. There is a lot of garbage in comments sections here, on Youtube, anywhere people are allowed to make comments really. But there is also a lot of great communication and exchange of ideas going on as well.
There is.
A youtube user by the name of "MrBtongue" posted a video about the state of "gaming journalism" and the general lack of formal academia. In it, he mentioned a term I find very useful: "Signal to Noise Ratio".

With it, he described that forum posts etc while subject to Poe's Law, also contain a few genuine articles.
Those articles are the future "academia" that will dictate and steer true journalism for gaming when it becomes important enough for academic and historic analysis.

It's something to consider, because gaming, compared to all modern creative mediums, most closely rose in tandem with the Internet. I'd argue that more than any other medium (for better or worse) it has been transformed by the internet.
It only makes sense that its largest "academics" (future) would start there too.

So I cannot even begin to humor Mr. Crowshaw's attitude for attacking -all- online commentary.
(though I still do not want to deal with commentary as a mandatory game feature unless it's crucial to the gameplay; communication is not reading random crap left by random people; that stuff actually has more in common with actual bathroom graffiti than most posts on the web)
 

Amir Kondori

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Atmos Duality said:
Amir Kondori said:
Personally I think Yahtzee is way off base here. There is a lot of garbage in comments sections here, on Youtube, anywhere people are allowed to make comments really. But there is also a lot of great communication and exchange of ideas going on as well.
There is.
A youtube user by the name of "MrBtongue" posted a video about the state of "gaming journalism" and the general lack of formal academia. In it, he mentioned a term I find very useful: "Signal to Noise Ratio".

With it, he described that forum posts etc while subject to Poe's Law, also contain a few genuine articles.
Those articles are the future "academia" that will dictate and steer true journalism for gaming when it becomes important enough for academic and historic analysis.

It's something to consider, because gaming, compared to all modern creative mediums, most closely rose in tandem with the Internet. I'd argue that more than any other medium (for better or worse) it has been transformed by the internet.
It only makes sense that its largest "academics" (future) would start there too.

So I cannot even begin to humor Mr. Crowshaw's attitude for attacking -all- online commentary.
(though I still do not want to deal with commentary as a mandatory game feature unless it's crucial to the gameplay; communication is not reading random crap left by random people; that stuff actually has more in common with actual bathroom graffiti than most posts on the web)
While my first instinct is to recoil at player comments showing up in my game I have learned at this point to keep an open mind to all things, because as much as something like this can go wrong, I think a good developer could find a way to integrate player messages in an engaging and interesting way. Who knows. No one until we try.
 

Atmos Duality

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Amir Kondori said:
While my first instinct is to recoil at player comments showing up in my game I have learned at this point to keep an open mind to all things, because as much as something like this can go wrong, I think a good developer could find a way to integrate player messages in an engaging and interesting way. Who knows. No one until we try.
A good developer could (I even allude to this way back on page 2 or wherever), but until that happens I'm not on board with that trend at all. Most companies are looking to implement social media in the most blunt manner possible because their market focus groups tell them that social media is hot right now. Not because it can or will inspire someone to do or say something meaningful.
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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I've never gotten this. The sentiment all over this article and the broader opinion that Youtube comments in particular aren't worth shit. I definitely agree that the social media integration shit in videogames is detrimental. I hate it as much as anyone else. It distracts from the game and the majority of it is crap, and reminds you of the broader playerbase, most of whom you'd rather forget existed. But some comments do contain actual criticism, actual argument, actual feedback, and I don't feel like a twat saying it either. You have to wade through a lot of thoughtless shit and likewhoring to get to it in some places, and in others like games that display comments it is nowhere to be found, but in places like this where there is no upvoting and few dickheads it's plain to see and beneficial.
 

NSGrendel

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IceForce said:
Since this thread is now up to page 7, would now be a good time to point out that Yahtzee doesn't even read his own comments threads?
What makes you think we're attempting to address "Yahtzee"?
Atmos Duality said:
Amir Kondori said:
Personally I think Yahtzee is way off base here. There is a lot of garbage in comments sections here, on Youtube, anywhere people are allowed to make comments really. But there is also a lot of great communication and exchange of ideas going on as well.
There is.
A youtube user by the name of "MrBtongue" posted a video about the state of "gaming journalism" and the general lack of formal academia. In it, he mentioned a term I find very useful: "Signal to Noise Ratio".

With it, he described that forum posts etc while subject to Poe's Law, also contain a few genuine articles.
Those articles are the future "academia" that will dictate and steer true journalism for gaming when it becomes important enough for academic and historic analysis.

It's something to consider, because gaming, compared to all modern creative mediums, most closely rose in tandem