Todd Howard, Skyrim Dev, thinks COD is 'hardcore'.

thick doona

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He says it's pretty hardcore.

Something doesn't become casual when it becomes popular. There's a fairly large amount of depth to COD games.

Then again I prefer JRPGs myself. So I don't really know much about FPS's ;)
 

veloper

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I don't see the problem here.

It takes most good COD players alot of time and effort to master the game and stay on top, so you could call it hardcore.

Also those are RPG level-up elements in Black Ops, even if I don't want that stuff damaging fair competition in online competitive games.
 

Hero in a half shell

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I don't really mind this, COD certainly has elements of RPG gameplay, admittedly in the same way Donkey Kong had elements of Assassins Creed freerunning (you can jump, and climb things!) I mean, I've never had to talk my way out of a sticky situation in COD.

He said this in reponse to a question about whether the audience is there for an in-depth RPG game, and just noted that CODs multiplayer has the types of RPG customisation and leveling that Skyrim will use, hopefully in more detail, so if people like and can understand the RPG elements in COD, they should be able to get into the fullblown RPG system in Skyrim.

As long as he doesn't announce a new 'Ironsights' mechanic for swords, where you can zoom into the hilt to hit more accurately.
 

Hedonist

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The reason Call of Duty is so successful is because it can be played as both a hardcore and a casual game.

But I think Todd has a point here. Call of Duty has lured a lot of people who aren't hardcore gamers into some systems that resemble rpg-elements. Which means that there is a big market of people who are ready to be convinced to play rpg's, because they have already been introduced to some of the systems.
 

tlozoot

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Just because a game is popular does not mean that it's 'casual'. COD is as standard a 'hardcore' game as there is. It is not made to appeal to casual videogame players, has a punishing difficulty mode and an extensive online component and yes, CODs multiplayer does have RPG elements.

Everyone needs to stop freaking out when they hear someone mention TES and COD in the same context. Howard knows what he's talking about. COD is indeed what I'd call a 'hardcore game' and it does have RPG elements in its multiplayer. Note that Howard said 'actually pretty hardcore' connoting how he thinks that despite the general foolish perception that popularity = casual the game is still fairly hardcore. Also note he says the multiplayer has 'rpg elements' not 'the entire game is a shining example of hardcore RPG dynamics'. Just because the man mentions them together doesn't mean Skyrim will have the same depth of RPG mechanics as CODs multiplayer. Just because he mention them together doesn't mean TES will befall the same iterative cash-cowing that COD is going through.

People need to chill out, but I guess idiots who treat the term 'casual' as synonymous with 'child-killer' and 'hardcore' with 'true master-race' will never listen to reason.
 

madster11

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Oh for Gods sake.

He just insured i don't buy this game until i've torrented and made sure it's not crap first.
Good work. I was just gonna buy it straight away, but with crap like 'less armor, PORTED to PC, CoD is hardcore and has RPG elements'
Yeah, no. Seems like this game is being made by idiots.
 

Woodsey

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CoD is mainstream, I wouldn't call it casual - nor would I call it hardcore.

Todd disagrees, I do not care. As long as he doesn't start saying its the ultimate RPG experience I don't mind.
 

AmrasCalmacil

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TimeLord said:
To be fair, you don't see people's mothers going off to play CoD so it's not really a casual gamer thing.

Oh wait! My mom plays CoD online! (seriously)
Please tell me I proved him wrong!
Your mum is hardcore!
(I can't believe I just said that.)
 

Canadish

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The Dragon Age 2 developers said the exact same thing.

The warning signs are all there now.
 

FallenTraveler

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xXxJessicaxXx said:
Okay so this is what Todd Howard had to say about COD according to a gamasutra interview [http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/35678/Interview_Todd_Howard_On_The_Scope_Vision_Of_Skyrim.php]

You look at Call of Duty, the most popular game in the world, and that's actually pretty hardcore. At the end of the day, it's a hardcore game, has RPG elements in multiplayer, making classes, picking perks. I think the audiences are there, and we tend to make our game more for ourselves and other people who play a lot of games.
Now my personal view aside. Is that really a wise thing to say considering the current climate of worries about streamlining and accessibility that is developing around Skyrim. Whether or not COD is what he says it is I think most 'hardcore' RPG fans would take issue with that judging from what I have seen on these, and other forums regarding COD and it's playerbase.

What do you think of this statement? Is it somthing that worries you? Do you agree with him?

Personally I will be buying the game but this made me raise my eyebrows a little.
One thing before we start, I doubt the devs of the dora the explorer games really wanted a dora the explorer game that bad.

On topic, who cares, theyre trying to make this game fun for a large audience, that doesn't mean it's going to turn out as being a bunch of xbl matches with 12 year olds yelling, it means it's gonna be streamlined so that we can get somewhat immersed in the world.... at least I hope so
 

Thanatos5150

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bleachigo10 said:
...Who the hell is Todd Howard?

OT: I don't know if making classes and choosing perks can be considered rpg elements. I haven't played any of the recent Cod games but I would imagine that creating classes in it is just choosing which guns you want to use, but i'm probably way off. I don't know, maybe he's right.
Choosing/creating classes boils down to your perks/death streak bonus and what guns you want to spawn with. It's no as involved as, say, Oblivion, but, yeah. It's RPG elements. Choosing things like "Do you want to reload every gun with every other gun or sprint for forever - and faster than anybody else".
That's an RPG "element" no matter which way you slice it. There's also the nigh-ubiquitous "leveling up", which first showed its mug in RPGs and is still considered an RPG element. There we go. Two Elements. You may now put "RPG elements" on the back of your box if you think it will sell more games.
They're not involved or complicated, nor are they what (we) RPG fans have come to expect and love of their (our) genre, but they exist.
 

Ariseishirou

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tlozoot said:
Just because a game is popular does not mean that it's 'casual'. COD is as standard a 'hardcore' game as there is. It is not made to appeal to casual videogame players, has a punishing difficulty mode and an extensive online component and yes, CODs multiplayer does have RPG elements.

Everyone needs to stop freaking out when they hear someone mention TES and COD in the same context. Howard knows what he's talking about. COD is indeed what I'd call a 'hardcore game' and it does have RPG elements in its multiplayer. Note that Howard said 'actually pretty hardcore' connoting how he thinks that despite the general foolish perception that popularity = casual the game is still fairly hardcore. Also note he says the multiplayer has 'rpg elements' not 'the entire game is a shining example of hardcore RPG dynamics'. Just because the man mentions them together doesn't mean Skyrim will have the same depth of RPG mechanics as CODs multiplayer. Just because he mention them together doesn't mean TES will befall the same iterative cash-cowing that COD is going through.

People need to chill out, but I guess idiots who treat the term 'casual' as synonymous with 'child-killer' and 'hardcore' with 'true master-race' will never listen to reason.
Came to say all this, but you beat me to it. Very reasonable, sir!

The main argument against this seems to be "I don't like it, therefore it's not hardcore" and that isn't terribly reasonable at all.
 

GigaHz

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Wow. I think this thread sums up how stupid most of YOU are. I don't see much wrong with what he said.


"Call of Duty, the most popular game in the world"
Sad but true. Maybe not the most popular on all platforms, but definitely up there.

"At the end of the day, it's a hardcore game"
Also true. Most if not all FPS's are designed to cater to a hardcore audience. Just because a game has mass appeal does not mean it suddenly becomes a casual game.

"Has RPG elements in multiplayer, making classes, picking perks"
This is the only thing thats a little off. It depends how loosely one defines RPG elements. I would say gaining experience qualifies as something borrowed from RPGs. Customization is something that has been with FPS games for some time now.

"We tend to make our game more for ourselves and other people who play a lot of games"
So they are going to stay true to Bethesda's vision firstly and then consider elements that would bring in more people. Because you know, damn them if they want the game to sell well.


And if you think I'm just kissing the guys ass, I thought Oblivion was incredibly overrated. I have moderate hopes for Skyrim but I'm thinking that it will amount to nothing more than eye candy with the same buggy, less than immersive experience that plagued Oblivion.
 

Post Tenebrae Morte

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I have a question for those of you going "OMG he tinks COD, teh lamest game evar!, has RPG elements?!?! I's navah buying teh game, Skyirm wils be suckys!"

Why do you feel the need to act so foolish? Does it help to stroke your ego, or are you merely another elitist idiot whom thinks they know whats best for gaming?

He has an opinion, who gives a damn? All you people are doing is acting like Gamefaqs, blasting his opinion like it'd give your e-peen's an increase in size. How about calming down and acting rationally? I know, odd acting. But you know, it would be quite mature.

~Efrit
 

JediMB

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AlternatePFG said:
It depends on how you define "hardcore".
A generation ago, we called them "mainstream".

Now they call themselves "hardcore", and the industry has accepted that.
 

Alon Shechter

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I don't think he's wrong, but it irritates me a little. I feel like he's hinting that Skyrim will be similar to CoD in some way..
 

repeating integers

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Cobalt180 said:
I'd somewhat against COD for personal reasons, but I'll say that because I have never played a COD game, I don't know all the intrinsic parts and details. I'd say that as far as RPG's are, COD probably does not offer a really in-depth system or experience. RPG's allow players to play as they wish to, in a world that is directly or indirectly affected by their choices. Rather, that has become the norm, and makes sense. COD doesn't have much Role-Playing elements at first glance. You can choose your weapons, and create a class that suits your way to play? It's roleplay, allowing you to create 'you' in the game, but comparing the shallow level of player accommodation to straight up role-playing isn't very good. Especially something of Skyrim level. COD lets you play a shooter campaign that has (as far as I know) one definitive ending, where your actions don't really do much to affect the world you live in (which is sad considering the supposed realism that the game states to have), you just go from place to place shooting things to fulfill objectives that are the only context for going out and shooting things, versus a game where if you're running low on cash, and a bandit jumps out at you, you can ill it, save his thigns, sell them, and continue on your way to an objective that YOU set for yourself.

I have to disagree with his statement only because comparing what is commonly classified as a 'Shooter' game to an 'RPG' game, and considereing some other worrying steps (such as marrying NPC's a la Fable 3 fame) are making Skyrim seem a little amorphous. I certainly hope his personal opinion will taint the larger frame and standards that we as a community hold for Skyrim and the Elder Scrolls series as a whole.
CoD's multiplayer lets you level up to gain new abilities. However basic, that's still an RPG element. Also, I love your avatar.

OT: Is "hardcore" defined by "having RPG elements" now? It seems everyone has no idea of what it really means, just a general idea of how they should use the word. I think we should just stop using it - he could have just said "Call of Duty has RPG elements, the general public shouldn't be entirely unprepared for Skyrim". Or something to the effect, but more eloquent.
 

MetallicaRulez0

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CoD is a hardcore game. It has a high skill cap and low entry point, and it's extremely replayable and deep. What isn't hardcore about that?

Just because something is very popular doesn't mean it's casual.
 

Continuity

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I saw this in another thread and it seemed appropriate:


If CoD is hardcore then we're all doomed. Sure CoD isn't an ultra accessible browser game, but its about as far from "hardcore" as a AAA game can get without being Wii sports.

You want hardcore go play ARMA2 or X3 or Europa universalis or Morrowind.
 

bakan

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JediMB said:
AlternatePFG said:
It depends on how you define "hardcore".
A generation ago, we called them "mainstream".

Now they call themselves "hardcore", and the industry has accepted that.
Just what I was thinking, when I read CoD is hardcore