Tolkien, Overrated?

[fgdfgdgd]

Shut your whore mouth when you talk about Tolkien like that Okay, i'll admit, he can be a little dry at times, but he is still brilliant as an author.

 

[guyroxorz]

No

/thread

 

[Thedutchjelle]

I believe Tolkien was more of a linguist than a writer. IIRC, he made languages, and then started to develop a world for them.

That said, I really enjoy reading the trilogy. It takes a while to get used to this style, but after that it's just smooth sailing for me (cept for the songs >_> ). It has a certain style. I guess not everybody likes it.

 

[Anggul]

I think the part that makes me love his work so much is the sheer scope of it, it's an entire world conceived in the mind of one man. Yeah some continuities have big worlds, but they're always thought up by many people, this is all from one man.

The Silmarillion, particularly the tales of the Children of Hurin, was incredible for me, it's a shame many people only know about Lord of the Rings, which is only the bit on the end of the whole thing.

 

[GrimTuesday]

Hey, OP! Listen, them's fighting words boy and unless you decide to use a topic that has an objective quality, that sort of talk does nothing good here, just breeds contempt. That's not fun for any party involved.

OT: I fucking love Tolkien, I dislike the fact that you've gone to the length to say that he is overrated.

I'm not trying to attack anyone's choice in literature and if it came across as that I'm sorry but the fact of the matter is I don't feel that Tolkien is as good a writer as he his made out to be. Like I said, He inspired many of the great modern authors and helped shape the genre of fantasy itself but in my opinion his stories are lacking in large part to him talking far too much about the world and its inhabitants and not enough time on the story.

 

[Ravek]

You ever listen to, say, the Beatles and wonder what made them so popular? Influence.

The Beatles were popular before they were influential.

 

[Monsterfurby]

He created his own world. If you had to describe everything in your country, it would be a touch drawn out, wouldn't it?
If you think that it is too austere, go for The Hobbit. It is basically LotR lite.

But worldbuilding alone, one could argue, does not necessarily make a great novelist.

There are plenty of great writers who set their stories in their own neighborhoods, and there are many very creative minds and world builders who would never get a novel through any publisher because they do not understand how to tell a story.

Now, of course Tolkien is not an extreme case, but a good example to illustrate how worldbuilding and storytelling are not necessarily reliant on each other. I agree, the world he created is amazing and he himself has displayed more interest in building that world rather than telling a story within it. Unfortunately, there is neither a good market nor huge prestige in writing mere descriptions of worlds, so he had to embed it in a story.

And the story, again, well, is not the best thing ever written in Fantasy. Is it entertaining? Sure. Is it interesting? Yeah. Is it influential? No doubt. However, the story takes the back seat with the world riding shotgun. That is something one has to keep in mind. Tolkien was a brilliant world builder, but an average storyteller.

 

[Kurokami]

I'm a pretty big fan of fantasy yet I hate the Lord of the Rings books and most of Tolkien's other books. To many of my friends who are also fantasy fans this is like blaspheme and I have on quite a few occasions had to defend my opinion in heated argument form.

My problem with Tolkien is I feel that he draws things out, especially descriptions. Also he has gone so in much detail that it kind of ruins the experience for me. It's one thing to develop you're world but there is such a thing as over developing it. It makes it so the reader is less involved in the telling of the story, you can't even think about what the rock looks because he has already spent half a page describing it.

How do you feel about Tolkien? What other writers do you feel are overrated and why?

Edit: I'm not refuting Tolkien's contribution to fantasy as a genre In fact I have admitted that he was a major influence to many of the best authors of our time.

I dislike him too, but many claim that how we now understand the fantasy setting is hugely related to his writing, so I can appreciate that while I don't like his works, I like what it has contributed to.

 

[TuryScrema]

In my life I have never encountered a more detailed or broadly designed multiverse than LOTR, and the core STORY itself I enjoy; but that's where my enjoyment ends. I hate Tolkiens writing with a passion so great, that I failed a test in high school because I refused to read his books. I very nearly swore to never see the movies, until I was informed the dialogue had been completely redone.

 

[ENKC]

I have read LotR and found it to be achingly disinteresting. I have read my share of long books in my time, but none which I considered so dull. Perhaps I just found it hard to be impressed by ZOMG HELMS DEEP when I liked to read about the battles of Alexander and Hannibal. They defeated more dudes in single battles than Sauron did in his lifetime.

Yes, I know the battling was only one aspect. I'm just saying that for me I found it hard to consider the scale of the stories as truly 'epic' by comparison to actual history.

 

[Nexoram]

I'm a pretty big fan of fantasy yet I hate the Lord of the Rings books and most of Tolkien's other books. To many of my friends who are also fantasy fans this is like blaspheme and I have on quite a few occasions had to defend my opinion in heated argument form.

My problem with Tolkien is I feel that he draws things out, especially descriptions. Also he has gone so in much detail that it kind of ruins the experience for me. It's one thing to develop you're world but there is such a thing as over developing it. It makes it so the reader is less involved in the telling of the story, you can't even think about what the rock looks because he has already spent half a page describing it.

How do you feel about Tolkien? What other writers do you feel are overrated and why?

Edit: I'm not refuting Tolkien's contribution to fantasy as a genre In fact I have admitted that he was a major influence to many of the best authors of our time.

Grim i agree with you 100%, I've read The Hobbit and all three books of the main LOTR trilogy but i couldn't get into it because of the huge boring bits of detail Tolkien puts into them. Most writers would probably provide 1-2 maybe at most a paragraph of detail about something or somewhere but Tolkien pushes the limit to an entire page. The hobbit I found alright but the rest of the LOTR series, i had to literally force myself to read on because I hoped i would eventually like it. (I didn't) As for the movies... who didn't like them?

 

[tintaman]

+1 Internets to the person who mentioned Beowulf, was definitely one of Tolkiens bigger influences. As to the OP? Despite the fact that LOTR is probably one of my favourite books, I can see your point. Personally I love overly descriptive writing (Peter F Hamilton, Tolkien, Charles Stross etc.) but that's just because I'm a bit weird, it's certainly not for everyone. Overrated though? By his fans maybe, but that's the same for...well pretty much everything that has fans.

 

[GrimTuesday]

+1 Internets to the person who mentioned Beowulf, was definitely one of Tolkiens bigger influences. As to the OP? Despite the fact that LOTR is probably one of my favourite books, I can see your point. Personally I love overly descriptive writing (Peter F Hamilton, Tolkien, Charles Stross etc.) but that's just because I'm a bit weird, it's certainly not for everyone. Overrated though? By his fans maybe, but that's the same for...well pretty much everything that has fans.

What I'm talking about when I say overrated is he is often held up as the epitome of fantasy writers even thought they are plenty who are better at crafting a story than he is. Yes he was a spectacular world builder but his stories suffered because of it.

 

[The_Echo]

I tried reading The Hobbit once upon a time. I got to the dwarf party (were they dwarves?) and got so bored I think my brain started to leak out of my ears. I was not a big fan of the pacing. Oh well. I was never too interested in Middle Earth to begin with.

Yeah, Tolkien definitely impacted the world of fantasy literature in a big way, but to me personally, I don't find it all that great.

 

[Soxafloppin]

I still think The Hobbit was a better read, I thought LOTR was much harder to read.

 

[binvjoh]

DEMS FIGHTIN WORDS BOY!!!
OT:I absolutely adore Tolkien I've read everything by him and The Silmarillion is absolutely my favorite piece of literature.Everything about his world and what he's done with it just fascinates me.

You could stand reading Silmarillion? I only lasted like three pages.

 

[Rararaz]

To be honest I think that the Lord of the Rings films have contributed to Tolkein's books being approached from a less literary angle than it should be as it is a book and one that was written 70 years ago. It is fine to not enjoy any piece of work but to suggest that Tolkein was overrated because you do not enjoy his writing style is a ludicrous statement. Tolkein does not have "pacing" issues, he simply wrote in a very descriptive style that due to people seemingly having shorter attention span comes in for critisism that it should not.

I have read LotR and found it to be achingly disinteresting. I have read my share of long books in my time, but none which I considered so dull. Perhaps I just found it hard to be impressed by ZOMG HELMS DEEP when I liked to read about the battles of Alexander and Hannibal. They defeated more dudes in single battles than Sauron did in his lifetime.

Yes, I know the battling was only one aspect. I'm just saying that for me I found it hard to consider the scale of the stories as truly 'epic' by comparison to actual history.

Just checking because I am confused, are you saying that a book's "epic-ness" is judged by how many people are killed in it?

 

[Ampersand]

Yeh, I love Tolkiens books and even I know that he's over rated. It's just because he's the one fantasy writer that people who don't normally read fantasy novels actually know about. It probably has something to do with the hole, hugely successful movie franchise thing.
It's not a mystery.

 

[ENKC]

To be honest I think that the Lord of the Rings films have contributed to Tolkein's books being approached from a less literary angle than it should be as it is a book and one that was written 70 years ago. It is fine to not enjoy any piece of work but to suggest that Tolkein was overrated because you do not enjoy his writing style is a ludicrous statement. Tolkein does not have "pacing" issues, he simply wrote in a very descriptive style that due to people seemingly having shorter attention span comes in for critisism that it should not.

I have read LotR and found it to be achingly disinteresting. I have read my share of long books in my time, but none which I considered so dull. Perhaps I just found it hard to be impressed by ZOMG HELMS DEEP when I liked to read about the battles of Alexander and Hannibal. They defeated more dudes in single battles than Sauron did in his lifetime.

Yes, I know the battling was only one aspect. I'm just saying that for me I found it hard to consider the scale of the stories as truly 'epic' by comparison to actual history.

Just checking because I am confused, are you saying that a book's "epic-ness" is judged by how many people are killed in it?

Of course not. I had thought I even spelled that out. It's a matter of scale. LotR is supposed to be a breathtaking epic, and yet I found little in it that approached real events from history in that regard.

 

[Rararaz]

To be honest I think that the Lord of the Rings films have contributed to Tolkein's books being approached from a less literary angle than it should be as it is a book and one that was written 70 years ago. It is fine to not enjoy any piece of work but to suggest that Tolkein was overrated because you do not enjoy his writing style is a ludicrous statement. Tolkein does not have "pacing" issues, he simply wrote in a very descriptive style that due to people seemingly having shorter attention span comes in for critisism that it should not.

I have read LotR and found it to be achingly disinteresting. I have read my share of long books in my time, but none which I considered so dull. Perhaps I just found it hard to be impressed by ZOMG HELMS DEEP when I liked to read about the battles of Alexander and Hannibal. They defeated more dudes in single battles than Sauron did in his lifetime.

Yes, I know the battling was only one aspect. I'm just saying that for me I found it hard to consider the scale of the stories as truly 'epic' by comparison to actual history.

Just checking because I am confused, are you saying that a book's "epic-ness" is judged by how many people are killed in it?

Of course not. I had thought I even spelled that out. It's a matter of scale. LotR is supposed to be a breathtaking epic, and yet I found little in it that approached real events from history in that regard.

Apologies, my bad in that case.