Tomb Raider Dev: Rape is Not in Our Vocabulary

cobra_ky

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so they've gone from exploiting rape to...ignoring it entirely. Nope, no obvious sexual overtones here! We never even noticed!

It's amazing how tone-deaf they've been on this subject in the media, which doesn't give me much confidence that they'll be able to handle it at all well in the actual game.

Hey CD, maybe rape SHOULD have been in your vocabulary. If your own employees are misconstruing the scene as rape, chances are a good chunk of your audience is going to as well. Try focus testing for that.
 

Leethe1Girl

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Meh. I don't see what the big issues is.

This game's trying to be more realistic and we're looking at a situation where a lovely, young woman is stranded in the middle of nowhere and then runs into a bunch of bad guys. People do realize that in this situation it is ENTIRELY likely that pretty much any woman would be at risk of being sexually assaulted, right?

Perhaps it should not have been included in the preview to leave the sheep to speculate. But I'm pretty happy that, since it was included, it looks like Lara will be kicking the shit-hole's ass anyway. Instead of being the victim that everyone feels the need to "protect".

Actually the "protect" aspect is fucking stupid if you ask me. Players don't feel the need to protect the characters they play as. If the game is a GOOD game, usually the player feels as if they ARE that character. Whether they're male or female or other.

I think it's a major flaw for a game developer to not understand that.
 

Mikeyfell

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Aug 24, 2010
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and here I thought I was looking forward to the new Tomb Raider.
I guess not.

I've almost had it up to here though *Hand slightly above eye level*
I'm pretty much done with gaming until the industry gets over either shooters or "taboo subject matter"

If you never even attempt to push the envelope the envelope will never get pushed and in a hundred years we'll still all be playing what ever they're calling the new re-release of CoD 4.

And more of the reason this pisses me off so much is not because this is the only thing that looked playable from E3 it's because who's better to have to deal with rapists (or potential rapists) than Lara Croft? She already has the reputation of being a complete bad ass, to find out she got that way by fighting against people who were trying to rape her just makes too much sense to pass up.

But apparently nobody's immune to bad ideas.
 
Aug 31, 2011
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Sorry for the late reply; had to factory reset my laptop earlier this week.

Wolfram23 said:
Well I'm looking at - literally looking at, on my desk - my copy of Tomb Raider on PC CDROM copyright 1996 Core Design Limited and Eidos Interactive Limited. And guess what? There's a big pixelated picture of Lara and her huge tits.

This just occurred to me. Lara has always been a sex object. Always. Now, in the trailer we see her in a desperate struggle against that issue, and she fucking kicks ass. Maybe that's a good thing?
I never said she wasn't a sex object to the gamer; she was. I said her "mortal scuffles" weren't sexualized. They were about fists and bullets, not some dude's erection. (To be fair, I haven't played them all, so I can't be 100% certain there weren't equally creepy cut-scenes in earlier games.) You said no one would assume Nathan Drake was about to be raped in the same circumstances, so I'm not sure what your point is now.

Wolfram23 said:
What trailer did you see? She had her hands tied and fought like a tiger! Fear?? Sure, everyone's got to be afraid. But she kicks the guy in the nuts, bites his neck, and shoots him in the face. All this while also being injured. She is not a victim here - she could have been, perhaps, but she is not.
And makes noises that can only possibly be associated with fear, then breaks down after she blows his head off. Like I said, it marks her as vulnerable, as a victim. Doesn't mean she didn't fight back, it just means the scene was intentionally designed to be seen as a rape attempt. I'm merely countering your argument that it was merely a "little rapey" and the scene wasn't meant to show her as a victim.

Wolfram23 said:
I get that rape can be a sensitive issue to some people. I read the article about it the other day, written by a rape victim when he was 7. I think that's terrible and should not be taken lightly (like chanting "RAPE! RAPE!" during Game of Thrones). However, I just feel that it's not completely out of place here. Yeah, it's probably one of the worst things someone can go through besides (or maybe equal to) torture. It's really bad.

However what we see is a woman who is persevering. Her fight or flight instinct is obviously fight. She doesn't give up, she does what she has to do.

Suffice it to say, I think it's a powerful scene and shows Lara's true mettle: she's a survivor; a fighter.
It's not a "sensitive issue." Rape is an issue that hasn't been dealt with adequately by society or government. My own city couldn't even turn in an inventory list of untested rape kits, nevermind actually get important kits tested. Expecting a rape scene in a game to just be okay with women, who compromise the vast majority of rape victims, just isn't logical given the societal circumstances. And rape in games can't be addressed the way it can in movies. While there are a ton of movies out there that would fall under the sexploitation genre, there are an equal amount (and often equally bad) number of movies featuring rape and its aftermath. Games aren't going to do that, and I'm not entirely sure they could and remain profitable. It's about fantasy, and I can't think of anyone who'd want to play a game that replicates real life to that degree. Unless Quantum Dream does it, I suppose.

Rape as a plot device when a regular fight would suffice is aggravating. The Last of Us was capable of taking viewers' breath away without rape; Tomb Raider was equally capable. So no, the scene doesn't show her as a true survivor. It shows her as a survivor of attempted rape, period. Why is that difference defensible?
 
Aug 31, 2011
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Condiments said:
Imagine if in Uncharted 2 when Drake gets grievously injured in the train crash, the player has to press a sequence of buttons to escape a gang bang once the guards find in him the wreckage. It'd be jarring and out of place, and certainly wouldn't fit thematically within the context of the game.
Oh man, I laughed so hard. I'm not sure if it was because the idea of such a thing being in a game is ridiculously silly, or if it's because I'm imagining repeatedly failing the quick-time event over and over again.

Oh jeez, what if you had to watch Nathan Drake be gang-raped repeatedly just because you hit the wrong button? O_O *futilely scrubs brain*
 
Aug 31, 2011
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lacktheknack said:
That doesn't constitute sexual assault, let alone rape. It's almost spectacular how safe Crystal Dynamics are playing it. But hey, don't let THAT get in the way of a good obsession for us to fight about over the course of 9001 threads.

EDIT: To avoid the quote flood: No, touching someone's thigh does not constitute sexual assault any more than grabbing someone's arm. Had he of succeeded in kissing or properly groping her, that would be sexual assault... he doesn't.
First off, dig the name. Catchy. Secondly, 'sexual assault' is usually a legal term that can include everything from groping to violent gang-rape. And I don't think you can honestly defend the scene as anything other than an attempt. Attempted rape is about motive, not about what was actually accomplished; attempted murder is the same way. When a guy yanks a fearful and bound woman against him, then begins sliding his hand down to her crotch, and it ends with a fight to the death, there are pretty heavy odds that it was attempted rape. Similar situation in real life, minus the death, would end with jail time and a lifetime membership to the sex offenders' registry.

It's a legitimate debate whether rape is acceptable in a game, and even whether how it was handled was okay. You and many other posters insisting that it was just a little bit of grab-ass is not cool. It's factually wrong and kind of insulting to people affected by sexual crimes.



As for several other posters equating criticism with knee-jerk feminism (with 'feminism' said with special slurring emphasis), I call bull. There's criticism for crappy handling of women in video games, end of story. This isn't new. It's not like we all suddenly woke up and noticed. These criticisms have been around for a long time; the only reason they're getting louder is because more adult women are becoming gamers and gaming itself is becoming a major hobby. It's simply an example of an industry still trying to figure itself out rather than any "feminist agenda." And even when it does, there will still be idiotic games with insulting caricatures of women. But the balance will be enough that the idiotic games won't be held up as industry standards. [Plus, Lara Croft is a fair example of the dichotomy - on the one hand, sexualized in every game; on the other, a still respectable heroine simply because she's tough, clever and has a recognizable personality.]

So yeah, if the gaming industry is still working on getting a fairly decent handle on reflecting actual women into games rather than sexual fantasies of women, then you can bet having a questionable attempted rape scene is going to push a few buttons. Here's the real question: What is more offensive, people complaining about women being misrepresented in games through female characters and rape scenes, or people complaining that those people should just shut up? Cuz last I checked, it's not misogyny that prompts the last, just good old-fashioned patronization.
 

Montezuma's Lawyer

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Darkmantle said:
Montezuma said:
Darkmantle said:
Montezuma said:
TheAmazingHobo said:
I don't even get the problem.

There is no rape in the game either way.
There IS an npc who might conceivably have the intention to commit rape, or at least feels a bit rape-y.
Said npc then gets fought off (and, in my Mind-Vision-Version at least, he also gets his nuts crashed).
So no rape happens.

So why the fuss ?
Spoken like someone who doesnt quite understand how rape affects people.
But no rape happened. It's barely attempted rape. But people are all up in arms claiming there is a rape scene in the trailer. Maybe I'm watching the wrong trailer, but there doesn't seem to be.

hooksashands said:
Men. When we're not being thrown into rape statistics, we're being told our opinion doesn't mean shit because herp derp male privilege.

Yea, I forgot what a 'privilege' it is to be blamed for everything wrong in culture and society.
Ha, this too!
Speaking as a person who has been raped, I can see you just dont get it.

Nobody is going to be offended by attempted murder if they're been murdered, they're dead.
EVERYONE is going to be offended by attempted rape if they've been raped, because we deal with it every day of our god damn lives.
being upset over nothing.
I'd like to say many things to you, most of which involve you doing certain things to yourself, but I'd prefer to not be banned.

But you just told a rape victim that they're upset over nothing, on the subject of rape.



I hope you never have to feel the way I've felt....
 

Darkmantle

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Montezuma said:
Darkmantle said:
Montezuma said:
Darkmantle said:
Montezuma said:
TheAmazingHobo said:
I don't even get the problem.

There is no rape in the game either way.
There IS an npc who might conceivably have the intention to commit rape, or at least feels a bit rape-y.
Said npc then gets fought off (and, in my Mind-Vision-Version at least, he also gets his nuts crashed).
So no rape happens.

So why the fuss ?
Spoken like someone who doesnt quite understand how rape affects people.
But no rape happened. It's barely attempted rape. But people are all up in arms claiming there is a rape scene in the trailer. Maybe I'm watching the wrong trailer, but there doesn't seem to be.

hooksashands said:
Men. When we're not being thrown into rape statistics, we're being told our opinion doesn't mean shit because herp derp male privilege.

Yea, I forgot what a 'privilege' it is to be blamed for everything wrong in culture and society.
Ha, this too!
Speaking as a person who has been raped, I can see you just dont get it.

Nobody is going to be offended by attempted murder if they're been murdered, they're dead.
EVERYONE is going to be offended by attempted rape if they've been raped, because we deal with it every day of our god damn lives.
being upset over nothing.
I'd like to say many things to you, most of which involve you doing certain things to yourself, but I'd prefer to not be banned.

But you just told a rape victim that they're upset over nothing, on the subject of rape.



I hope you never have to feel the way I've felt....
The subject of rape, which is not even in the damn trailer. So many of these rape victims wouldn't have to endure this "trauma" of rape being brought up all the time, if people didn't scream rape at nothing. I'd say you are causing more of a problem by screaming about rape with little to no provocation you are causing more "triggers" then I am.

And perhaps if you didn't get so needlessly emotional, you would be able to see my point instead of throwing a little tantrum on the internet.
 

Carpenter

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Jul 4, 2012
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Yeah we can't have a female protagonist getting raped in a game, everyone knows games are for children so rape should never be a part of them.

Now men getting raped, like in Fear 2, is perfectly fine.

So many things wrong with the gaming "community" today. My hands are not big enough for the facepalm in my soul.