Tomb Raider Dev: Rape is Not in Our Vocabulary

[Sixcess]

They didn't get "called out". They got deliberately misinterpreted. Reporters could have written articles about how unfortunate the word choice of "protect" was instead of "empathise", or how they should have communicated that the game isn't really about rape.

Except that Ron Rosenberg used the words 'attempted rape' in multiple interviews. This isn't a matter of misinterpretation when it's the words he actually used. Kotaku in particular are resorting to transcribing sections of these interviews word for word in order to avoid any speculation that they're putting words into the devs' mouths.

Simply saying that "they were idiots, they deserved it", is wrong. Even idiots shouldn't be blamed if they are victims of malice. NO ONE deserves to get intentionally misinterpreted by the media.

They were idiots, and they do deserve it.

This isn't a story about brave developers being raked over the coals unfairly by the media for trying to push the boundaries of video game storytelling. This is a story about a pack of retards trying to reboot a PG franchise with an 18 cert storyline and wondering why people are leery about it. This is a story about an executive producer so fucking out of touch, so lacking in his understanding of the property he's dealing with, that he doesn't comprehend that using the word rape in relation to the most famous female video game character in the world is an unbelievably stupid thing to do.

Samus Aran, Alyx Vance, Jill Valentine... outside of video game circles they are nobody. CD are handling one of a handful of video game characters who are recognised by name in the non-gaming media. Metroid may have been the first game to put a female character in a lead action role, but it was Lara Croft that made it mainstream - she's a cross media icon.

That's why this is a big deal when Mafia II was not, when Heavy Rain was not. On a scale of 1-10 for mainstream recognition if the protagonist of Mafia II is a 1 then Lara Croft is a 10. Taking such an established character and trying to alter the tone of their storylines needs to be done very carefully, if at all.

 

[Hjalmar Fryklund]

Youvé got your chronology wrong. This predates TvW. Even if TvW was the spark, the gas had been flooding the house for hours before it blew.

Pretty much this. Remember the threads about how "gamers make bad feminists", about the increasingly skinny women in video games, the controversy surrounding the Hitman: Absolution trailer, or the BBC report on domestic violence? Those threads seemed at the time to be a "the subject of the month" kind of thing. And they were depressing enough for some people (myself not included, the textual blood sport in them was absolutely delicious).

The Tropes vs. Women incident was more or less the culmination of this debate rather than the beginning (of course, this might change in the near future).

During the last week or so the forums and the staff seem to have gotten stuck on the rape issue. I wonder why this is and what it says about the "gender wars."

In any case, the heat 'n' toxic levels at the Escapist forums seem to be going up. Imagine how it is like for the people, who were already depressed before, now. It has even gotten to the degree that I am depressed about it too(I might just have been glutting myself on the aforementioned blood sport too much though). Maybe this is why the forums are a bit slower than usual (then again, I might just be imagining things).

EDIT: I wrote that last paragraph without really thinking it through, and after thinking about it, felt that it was merely hot air. Please disregard it.

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

Wow. If I was to ever create a game I would probably keep it devoid of females altogether. Even then, feminists would probably throw rocks at me demanding why my video game had no females...man this is tough.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

They didn't get "called out". They got deliberately misinterpreted.

If you say something to your friends that could potentially interpret as you admitting that you are having sex with your mother, and they spend the next weeks accusing you of having sex with your mother, they are not "calling you out" on it, they are just bullying.

Simply saying that "they were idiots, they deserved it", is wrong. Even idiots shouldn't be blamed if they are victims of malice. NO ONE deserves to get intentionally misinterpreted by the media.

This isn't a story about brave developers being raked over the coals unfairly by the media for trying to push the boundaries of video game storytelling. This is a story about a pack of retards trying to reboot a PG franchise with an 18 cert storyline and wondering why people are leery about it. This is a story about an executive producer so fucking out of touch, so lacking in his understanding of the property he's dealing with, that he doesn't comprehend that using the word rape in relation to the most famous female video game character in the world is an unbelievably stupid thing to do.

I think you both make very good points.
Although I disagree with presuming that Crystal Dynamics are "retards" for trying to put a darker spin on their character just because she's a bit famous. Batman was a very famous character, and had lots of kiddie fans even younger than Lara Croft's would be, and look at The Dark Knight.

I think it's very easy to buy into the media hype, who are absolutely loving the amount of hits and traffic they are getting out of what is pretty much a nothing story surrounded in baseless speculation.

That said, it was quite badly handled by the PR team, but that's hardly news either. Since when have video game companies been good with PR?

But you're probably right that the fallout is a result of Lara Croft being a recognisable icon and one of the few well-known female video game badasses. Hell, she was even used in an ad for an energy drink a few years ago! On Irish TV!
Beating her senseless and having her get raped is just not befitting of her status.

I wonder if it was Lara Croft's friend about to be raped, and she steps in to save the day, would this have gone as badly?

 

[Eyelicker]

It's a fucking antagonist doing a bad thing! He's an antagonist, he is a bad guy he's meant to do bad immoral things!

Jesus Christ, it's a prequel showing character development through earlier trauma, character endures a load of bad shit, gets through it, is now stronger, this is a valid story arc! I like the look of the trailer and feel compelled to play it and get through all the hardship. Of course the threat of rape is gonna be a very real issue when you're a girl stranded on an island with bad men, fucking hell, it's inherent of the entire tomb raider setting and why the hell should they gloss over the issue! Seriously, in real life a chick like that running around in the middle of nowhere against a group of gangsters would get raped and dumped in the ocean so fast your head wouldn't have time to spin! Regardless of what a group of privileged feminazi gaming journalists think.

Really dissapointed that they're pussing out over the whole thing now instead of sticking to their guns. Like they obviously don't believe what they're saying now, they're just on full PR autopilot.

Ever since that stupid feminist frequency women did that stupid tropes thing gaming journalisms just gone full retard over this perceived "misogyny" [quickly becoming meaningless buzzword of the moment] in gaming. And this is proof of it beginning to stifle actual development of games. Having an ANTAGONIST try and commit rape is the furthest thing from condoning it possible.

As I guy I like the idea of playing as a girl sneaking around an island trying to avoid rape. It's something I've never played before, it's a new, exiting and scary concept, and could be quite immersive. Either that or I'm just another cisprivilaged misogynist male pig.

 

[Strazdas]

Speaking only for myself: guess how sick to death I am of female characters getting sexually victimized in fiction. Go ahead, toss out an estimate. Lara Croft was one of the few who hadn't been caught up in that particular cliche, and now here we are again.

Exept that she became a sex symbol since first game? no wonder her breasts kept increasing in size with every game

 

[ensouls]

What it comes down to for me: I don't want to HAVE to protect Lara Croft. Just let her be badass. Yeah, she's one of the many 'sex object' female protagonists, but less so than many, and at least she generally doesn't get tied up and groped (as far as I know, I haven't played everything).

 

[maninahat]

snip

They didn't get "called out". They got deliberately misinterpreted. Reporters could have written articles about how unfortunate the word choice of "protect" was instead of "empathise", or how they should have communicated that the game isn't really about rape.

But they didn't do that, they did their best to put it in the worst possible light, with the most selective choice of words just for controversy's sake, like how "In Tomb Raider, you will want to protect Lara from rape" or "groping isn't sexual assault according to CD".

If you say something to your friends that could potentially interpret as you admitting that you are having sex with your mother, and they spend the next weeks accusing you of having sex with your mother, they are not "calling you out" on it, they are just bullying.

You clearly haven't met my friends.

Whilst I agree the media do try to put the worst spin on [all] things, that doesn't mean CD didn't deserve the badgering on this occasion. The articles did a good job of catching the insensitivity of the initial rape justification, and the problematic attempt to defend their choices/go back on the bad PR.

You know how they would have come out of this best? If they specifically stated "Yes, someone attempts to sexually assault Lara. yes it is justified within the context of the scene, and it is a significant moment in the story. We are handling the sensitive issue in a bold, but receptive and cautious manner." Journalists could try to word that defense in a bad way ("CD DENIES BEING CALLOUS"), but CD would probably come out looking a lot more respectful. If they flip-flop on the issue, or act defensive, they're only going to look indecisive and in the wrong.

 

[Eyelicker]

-snip-

Why are you so butthurt. Boasting about reporting someone for a completely innocuous comment. That you would do that pretty much just proves his point about the stick.

Also there is a lot of evidence to support that the feminist frequency woman purposely tried to attract all the internet hate she got, just to attract attention and gain notoriety anda victim card to play, as well as white knights like you jumping on the case. Calling her "poor woman" is rather naive of you, she's getting tons of money and reputation.

She's completely full of shit btw, sorry you got duped into defending her and probably giving her money.

I don't agree with a lot of the comments, but this is the internet, bile, faeces and exaggerations of opinions are flung everywhere, get used to it, not saying it's okay, but its worth it for the freedom the internet provides.

inb4 you grasp at straws to report me for expressing my opinion and it goes against yours

 

[MpSai]

Because a big, dangerous man physically intimidating a young female college student in an isolated, lawless place could never have those kinds of implications amirite?

I seriously don't understand this game, or how the gameplay is going to work, it just seems like it's 8 hours of bizarre, lovingly detailed scenes of a young woman being brutalized.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Oh christ get these guy some PR support before they burn their game to the ground, because I'm suspecting their next outing might be in the vein of "her fault for dressing that way".
This game is no different from Deliverance and the bizzilion knock off movies that followed, but in true gaming fashion adult themes are handled horrifically, they actually try to sell you the game on rape and torture... how can you be this bloody stupid, just goes to show howmuch this industry has yet to learn.

 

[Sixcess]

Although I disagree with presuming that Crystal Dynamics are "retards" for trying to put a darker spin on their character just because she's a bit famous. Batman was a very famous character, and had lots of kiddie fans even younger than Lara Croft's would be, and look at The Dark Knight.

The Nolan Batman movies are a good example of 'darker and more realistic' done right. I'm not personally a fan of his version, but I can recognise that they're well made. However Nolan doesn't really change anything significant - Batman is still recognisably Batman - prowling on rooftops and beating the crap out of bad guys just like always. Begins and TDK are different from previous depictions in style, not substance. Nothing I've seen so far convinces me that CD have the skill to do that.

That said, it was quite badly handled by the PR team, but that's hardly news either. Since when have video game companies been good with PR?

True. Someone commented that this kind of casually sexist talk is par for the course at E3, and that got me thinking. Gaming remains a very male dominated industry, and I can imagine in the testosterone laden boys club environment of E3 or similar it'd be easy for Rosenberg to lapse into that kind of mindset and speak without thinking. It's indicative, I think, that gaming still has a long way to go to 'grow up.'

I wonder if it was Lara Croft's friend about to be raped, and she steps in to save the day, would this have gone as badly?

Likely not. It'd still be unecessary but it wouldn't come across as badly, and I daresay if it was something that 'almost' happened to another character in the game then it wouldn't be in the trailer, or talked up so enthusiastically by the producer. Or even if it was Lara herself if it was an isolated moment in the game, but the trailer is extremely unbalanced towards Lara-as-victim instead of Lara-as-action-hero.

Of course the threat of rape is gonna be a very real issue when you're a girl stranded on an island with bad men, fucking hell, it's inherent of the entire tomb raider setting and why the hell should they gloss over the issue!

For the same reason that two of the Indiana Jones movies featured Nazis as the primary antagonists but neither film commented on anti-semitism - that is, that it's an action adventure, not a study of a particular kind of evil.

That, and they are going to gloss over the issue, because I'd bet it's in there to justify Lara shooting people, and that that's the only reason it's in there.

 

[Eyelicker]

Of course the threat of rape is gonna be a very real issue when you're a girl stranded on an island with bad men, fucking hell, it's inherent of the entire tomb raider setting and why the hell should they gloss over the issue!

For the same reason that two of the Indiana Jones movies featured Nazis as the primary antagonists but neither film commented on anti-semitism - that is, that it's an action adventure, not a study of a particular kind of evil.

Okay, so they're taking it in a different direction and making it a bit more gritty and "real", for better or worse, so what's wrong with including threat of rape as part of this new atmosphere.

I'd bet it's in there to justify Lara shooting people, and that that's the only reason it's in there.

And what's wrong with that? Seems like a valid piece of plot device to me.

 

[Jumplion]

It's not nearly drowning on an ocean liner
It's not waking-up in cocoon
It's not the inadvertent appendectomy
It's not the scared whining voice
It's not the constantly collapsing cave
It's not the enemies randomly grabbing her
It's not her being disarmed and taken prisoner (again)
It's not even the attempted rape

ITS ALL OF THAT PUT TOGETHER!!!

Seriously, she is getting goddamn brutalized in this game. In all of the trailers we've seen Lara is getting beaten to a bloody pulp. Like, every 10 seconds she gets a serious injury, or smashed into something, or cut by something, or falls onto something, it's ridiculous. I think they wanted to try and show her as tough and independent into the "edgy and gritty" territory, but then went way too far the other direction with punching her in the gut constantly.

As for this whole hullabaloo, it's a shame that Crystal Dynamics cornered into itself here. I get what they're trying to say, but often times it comes off as even worse than what they said before. I am not against using rape in a game so long as it is used maturely and tactfully, it can be a way of building character, but if they're not even willing to admit that there is a basic element of sexual assault in that encounter then it shouldn't even be in the game in the first place. They clearly are incompetent when it comes to sexuality and the scenarios and impacts thereof.

 

[Mullahgrrl]

Rape isn't part of their vocabulary?

They don't know what they are talking about!

 

[Montezuma's Lawyer]

I don't even get the problem.

There is no rape in the game either way.
There IS an npc who might conceivably have the intention to commit rape, or at least feels a bit rape-y.
Said npc then gets fought off (and, in my Mind-Vision-Version at least, he also gets his nuts crashed).
So no rape happens.

So why the fuss ?

Spoken like someone who doesnt quite understand how rape affects people.

 

[Sixcess]

Okay, so they're taking it in a different direction and making it a bit more gritty and "real", for better or worse, so what's wrong with including threat of rape as part of this new atmosphere.

In genre fiction it's usually no more than a lazy excuse for a female character to kill someone or go on a revenge spree or whatever, and video game storytelling being what it is I find it hard to imagine that this game would rise above that level, but I will agree that there is nothing inherently wrong with it.

However, Crystal Dynamics are handling an established franchise here - not as strong as it once was perhaps, but a recognised brand nonetheless, and some people are going to react badly if they find Pepsi in their Coke can.

The upside of TR being a big name is that they've got an existing fanbase who will talk the game up, give it lots of publicity and buzz, and ideally pre-order it or buy on release day, based entirely on their affection for and/or trust in the brand... and the downside is that said fanbase will flip out if they don't feel that the new direction is appropriate for the character.

This would never have become such a major talking point if it was a new IP.

 

[TheAmazingHobo]

I don't even get the problem.

There is no rape in the game either way.
There IS an npc who might conceivably have the intention to commit rape, or at least feels a bit rape-y.
Said npc then gets fought off (and, in my Mind-Vision-Version at least, he also gets his nuts crashed).
So no rape happens.

So why the fuss ?

Spoken like someone who doesnt quite understand how rape affects people.

Spoken like someone who quoted a post from 6 pages ago, without reading the following, almost adjacent, post by the same person, in which he clarified that the previous post was not actually intended to comment on whether or not depicting or using rape in a video game is appropriate or disrespectful to victims of rape, but was just meant to comment on how it struck him as redundant that a PR person needed to actually state that a scene doesn´t contain rape, when the scene REALLY obviously doesn´t contain any rape.

Also, you are of course incorrect.
I´m not someone who doesn´t "quite" understand how rape affects people.
I am somewhat who "completely" doesn´t understand how rape affects people.

(And just for the record, I sincerely hope that you took at least a tiny bit of genuine offence to my post. Because the idea that I just typed all this, just to answer a person who saw a chance to talk down to someone and then ran with it, is a bit sad)

 

[JediMB]

Back when the interview with the Rosenberg was published, I recall saying that I hoped his words didn't reflect the intent of the rest of the developers working on the game.

Now they come out and say as much, and people don't seem to believes them. Oh well.