Lollipop Chainsaw has a straight girl in a working relationship... Sort of.Moonlight Butterfly said:
Yay progress?
Tomb Raider writer expressed an interest in making Lara gay?
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Yay progress?
Quote of the day.Treblaine said:
Untrue. I can think of a few examples of men kissing women in games, though it is also fairly rare it at least happens. Though I would argue that the treatment of male sexuality in video games is just as problematic as the treatment of female sexuality in games. I have said several times in this thread. Sex is humanizing, it creates a place of reliability, and while discussions of a PCs sex life and romance does not fit into every single game, as a medium it's almost completely white washed all together and this is a huge fucking problem. Sex is a grown up thing, and as long as video games want to be a grown up medium, we have to start addressing sex like grown ups.Treblaine said:
You know, I agree with a lot of what you have to say,but your asesment of Lara as a sexual icon and sexism with in the industry are flat out wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_symbol#Video_games
Original Lara in many ways embodies a lot of the problems with video game portrayals of women. Not to the extreme of DoA: Beach Volley Ball or any thing like that its true (Though it did precede it) but she is the prime example of the objectified female heroin. She is aloud to be sexy (Large breasts and hips, thin waist, pouty lips, big eyes - all traits associated with hyper sexualisation) but not aloud to really be sexual (I dont know the Tomb Raider franchise that well so correct me if I am wrong, but she has never really been portrayed as having any sort of sexual interests to speak of that I am aware of.) on the other hand, she is also portrayed a whole lot more competent then the vast majority of many female protagonists out there. (The girls in DoA: Beach Volley Ball are just embarrassingly stupid) You're clearly a vary smart guy, but this is also apparently a huge bias blind spot for you.
I know it's a fairly old post, but this sums it all up. Either this or a cheap attempt for some adolescent pandering.King Aragorn said:
Well an example of the attitude is below:erttheking said:
Such cynicism, they assume it's either to appeal to self-righteous jerks who want a politically-correct component or appeal to the lechery of straight males.Sir Pootis said:
But they don't bother to actually read the interview where they'd see that's not the case at all.
Or they could just use some common sense and realise that wouldn't increase a games sales nor it's artistic worth.
As a result of such ignorance (literally, they IGNORE the interview and talk as if they know, that is IGNORance) they find themselves in opposition to women's inclusion in video games, really straight men being attracted to lesbianism is no reason at all to oppose lesbiansm, nor is it even a reason to oppose progressiveness when it is for progressiveness sake.
Especially when it is in fact neither of those reasons but simply the writer giving serious deep consideration of what is best for a well rounded character.
Glad I am not the only one who noticed this!PrinceOfShapeir said:
Actually on the topic of whether Miss Pratchett would pander to the male fantasy demographic it might be worth considering, what is her sexuality? Is she gay herself or not? (I don't think she would write a lesbian character for exploitationary purposes either way, but its something to consider)
I dont think most people here have actually read the interview.PrinceOfShapeir said:
Name me one lesbian heroin of a triple A game. Just one.rhodo said:
Here's something to consider. If you have to say "I'm not being homophobic." you're probably being homophobic.Luciella said:
Question? Did you actually read the bloody interview? Cause if not, you're opinion is irrelevant and biased.
Also, I would play the shit out of an Uncharted reboot where Nathan Drake was gay. Though the decisions are not exactly connected, unless Uncharted hires Rihanna Pratchett on as writer. And who said anything about making Lara gay for male pleasure? Did Pratchett? No. Read the bloody interview.
Oh that! Yes now that actually looks like a very interesting game and I'm worried because Capcom is making it.feauxx said:
Yet it somehow looks...UNIQUE.
So apologies are in order
Not that confusing really. It's not about gay characters, it's about taking a character with more than a decade of history and fan attachments and a distinct lack of 'gayness' and 'making her gay' in the words of the author. To be fair to her, it was no more than a contemplation she had.erttheking said:
If it helps sooth your fears, Capcom is not making it, they are only handeling the distribution. French developer Dontnot Entertainmnet is the one who is making it.Madara XIII said:
Ah so like with Asura's Wrath. They just distributed while CC2 made the game.A Distant Star said:
Ok then thanks for quelling my fears.
How can you people talk about a romantic fling thing with Lara and Sam when Sam clearly talked about them meeting cute guys? If there was something she wouldn't have brought that up. Just pandering to the gay/lesbian community. Don't retcon beloved characters into things just to please whatever happens to be a hot topic right now. Make genuine characters for these games or whatever.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/03/04/rhianna-pratchett-on-reclaiming-lara-croft-and-having-discworld-creator-terry-as-a-dad-3522630/
An interview with Miss Pratchett where she doesn't discus Laras sexuality.
Also Pratchett seems to be a very charming woman.
An interview with Miss Pratchett where she doesn't discus Laras sexuality.
Also Pratchett seems to be a very charming woman.
A Distant Star said:
Like? The problem is they are extremely rare. I think a single quick kiss at the end of Uncharted 2 and by god if they didn't build up to it so you were ready for it. Like for example, Nathan and Elena don't even kiss at the end of Uncharted 1. And they only hug and hold hands at the end of Uncharted 3. I didn't say it was absent, I said it was rare, and Uncharted series has one of the most serious romances of a lead character in a structured (non-variable RPG style plot) in gaming. And they kiss once and it was a quick peck with the head to the back of the camera.
Did Dom kiss his brain-dead wife? Anyway, the point is PLAYER characters kissing, NPCs kissing is little different than watching a feature film and it's clear we don't have a problem with that. Let me see, Solid Snake? No. Oh, Big Boss in Metal Gear Solid 3 with Eva.
But the problem with bringing sex in is when it isn't used to humanise the PC but the manipulate the player to care about the PC's loved one being kidnapped by the Big Bad. And that's almost always a contrived motivation.
You're going to cite wikipedia on Lara Croft being a sex symbol, where the only sources to back that up are TABLOIDS! They can't even get their facts straight and we are supposed to trust their opinions? When they aren't lying about things like 50% of benefits going to illegal immigrants their opinions are extreme if they aren't irrelevant.
I was expecting a scholarly source, defining Sex Symbol and explaining how Lara Croft in her various depictions fit that role... not what non-gamers blindly label her.
I don't care what ignorant journalists think, I judge Lara by the games, not by the marketing morons or sensationalist pundits.
That's both an unfortunate typo and a misuse of the term "sexual objectification". Remember, Heroin is the narcotic, Heroine is a female hero. Also, it's extremely redundant saying even "female heroine". It's like saying "female policewoman".
There are two types of "objects". Object as in "a tangible thing in stable form but generally not alive" and "a thing, person, or matter to which thought or action is directed"
Jim Sterling in this weeks Jimquisition talks about "putting them away when done" as if that's what objectification is, making them a non-living thing. But that's now what objectification is.
Sexual Objectification came from criticism of PASSIVE media like films and tv-shows which objected to how women were repeatedly objectified, and objectified in one sexual context or another. That means they were always having things done to them and it was usually for sex one way or another. Spied on by lecherous men, sought after by men for sexual role, princess kidnapped by villain.
But when it is a female who is both the protagonist and the player's sole perspective then they are universally the SUBJECT, not the object. This is the problem when a term coined for passive media is transposed to video games carelessly.
Remember, the subject does the thing.
The object has things done to them.
Lara Croft was not an object, she was the subject of a story all about her agency in a story of adventure, the game was all about her doing things to other people and things. She was a woman, and like all the male characters she was in prime physical condition.
She was not hyper-sexualised, she doesn't even show any cleavage. She has prominent female features in the same way the males in the same games had exaggerated male features, as the graphics did not allow for subtly in variation.
It's like Popeye's forearms, but all of his limbs. He makes Arnold Schwarzenegger look like a tofu munching hippie. He has a similarly extreme body proportion of shoulder width to waist.
Even in games with more advanced graphics it's well accepted when this is done with characters choosing radically different proportions such as Team Fortress 2; Heavy Weapons guy has arms that are longer than thicker than his legs!
With this you are damned if you do, damned if you don't.
If Lara doesn't act sexual she's (inexplicably) objectified. If she does then she's just being a stripper.
So are you saying that Bayonetta is a better depiction of women in video games because she is flirting and toying with every guy she meets? Constantly striking sexy poses??!!? Because such character depiction was lambasted for that.
The blind spot is with you for not playing the games that you feel the authority to lecture me on, and not seeing contradictions like Lara not acting sexual yet being seen as sexy is a negative for that character.
I wish game designers would remember that games are not movies. We put a part of ourselves into games and the characters we play. As a result some things are better left unsaid, to better allow us to see the story in our own personal way. If you as the player wish to perceive Lara as gay fine. Straight, great. Your own personal girlfriend, why he heck not. Sometimes saying less or telling less of the writers story allows the game itself to become more immersive.
Thi is a huge part of the appeal to Bethesdas take on the Elder Scrolls and Fallout games. By leaving these details to the players interpretation they increase the games incredibly sucking immersion. Whereas while Bioware does the best stories in the business, it is the moments in their games that force these types of issues that often seem to destroy the players connection to the game and its world.
Thi is a huge part of the appeal to Bethesdas take on the Elder Scrolls and Fallout games. By leaving these details to the players interpretation they increase the games incredibly sucking immersion. Whereas while Bioware does the best stories in the business, it is the moments in their games that force these types of issues that often seem to destroy the players connection to the game and its world.