Tomb Raider writer expressed an interest in making Lara gay?

[Yuuki]

Wouldn't such a cheap and obvious bit of pandering to the infamous (if I may quote a greater man) 'pocket mining demographic' have been the silver bullet between the eyes of all their other efforts to remove this Lara from the overt sexually immature image of old Lara?

Lesbian = pandering to males
"Almost rape scene" = pandering to males
Keeps wearing a tank top = pandering to males
FACT THAT SHE EVEN EXISTS = pandering to males

Anything I missed?

 

[Ishigami]

I liked that there was no forced romance between Lara and anyone. Too many games these days feel the need to include some kind of romance, like it is an item you have to tick off on a ?great game? check-list.
Therefore I would prefer if it is left ambiguous and concentrate on things that really matter: Raiding tombs and uncovering some mysteries.

Oh and I liked that there was no hint that Lara could be rich as well. One of the traits I never liked about her: Being overblown wealthy.
Call me communist but I have a natural distaste for rich people, especially children of rich people.

 

[Austin Manning]

It IS tokenism. We barely have good heterosexual female characters. Making an ICONIC character like Lara Croft gay would be forced. Lara's sexuality is irrelevant. And writing a gay character takes more effort than writing a default heterosexual character or ignoring the issue altogether. Focusing on her sexuality instead of her other more important personality traits would oversexualize the character AGAIN. They already rebooted the series keeping in mind that the old Lara was overly sexualized. They really shouldn't go back to that.

Uhm, no, writing a gay character takes exactly the same amount of time and effort as writing a straight character. Look at Cortez and Traynor from Mass Effect. Sexuality is an aspect of their character, yes, but it's not their defining trait. Neither of their arcs (grieving for a loved one and overcoming their self-confidence issues respectively) would have been greatly changed by making them strait (some of Cortez's dialogue would need to be changed is all).

Just because she isn't your preferred sexuality doesn't mean she is being oversexualized. Again, to use the Traynor example, you can have a gay character without it being a way to pander to a horny player base.

 

[synobal]

And how come the homosexuals are the only sexual experimenters that deserve representation? What about the furries? How come they don't deserve representation, but the gays do?

What you never played a sonic game?

 

[jcfrommars9]

It IS tokenism. We barely have good heterosexual female characters. Making an ICONIC character like Lara Croft gay would be forced. Lara's sexuality is irrelevant. And writing a gay character takes more effort than writing a default heterosexual character or ignoring the issue altogether. Focusing on her sexuality instead of her other more important personality traits would oversexualize the character AGAIN. They already rebooted the series keeping in mind that the old Lara was overly sexualized. They really shouldn't go back to that.

Uhm, no, writing a gay character takes exactly the same amount of time and effort as writing a straight character. Look at Cortez and Traynor from Mass Effect. Sexuality is an aspect of their character, yes, but it's not their defining trait. Neither of their arcs (grieving for a loved one and overcoming their self-confidence issues respectively) would have been greatly changed by making them strait (some of Cortez's dialogue would need to be changed is all).

Just because she isn't your preferred sexuality doesn't mean she is being oversexualized. Again, to use the Traynor example, you can have a gay character without it being a way to pander to a horny player base.

Agreed. That's what I liked so much about this most recent Tomb Raider game is that they didn't make Lara a strong female protagonist, they made her a strong protagonist who is a woman. They didn't define her by her gender. In the Mass Effect series, the sexual orientations of the characters worked for that same reason. As you said, they made it an aspect of their character rather than their defining trait. I always respected how they treated that part of the game. In my opinion, if people in gaming truly want to start diversifying their characters, then define them by their character, not their race, gender or sexual orientation.

 

[LiquidGrape]

There are two ways that such a thing would have been handled.

a) LOOK AT ALL THIS HOT LESBIAN SEX! PLEASE BUY OUR GAME! CHICKS MAKING OUT ARE HOT!

b) Writers: "We made Lara Croft a lesbian. Just look how progressive we are. Now excuse me, we've got some gay to bury in the "character development" graveyard and the hole won't dig itself."

Your cynicism is quite painful to read. Considering Pratchett's deliberate and reasonable comments on the subject, I doubt any such thing would've been the case.

 

[Treblaine]

Wouldn't such a cheap and obvious bit of pandering to the infamous (if I may quote a greater man) 'pocket mining demographic' have been the silver bullet between the eyes of all their other efforts to remove this Lara from the overt sexually immature image of old Lara?

Lesbian = pandering to males
"Almost rape scene" = pandering to males
Keeps wearing a tank top = pandering to males
FACT THAT SHE EVEN EXISTS = pandering to males

Anything I missed?

Ignore them. They'll only stop complaining and sniping when every character in every game ever made is like Nathan Drake.

They won't listen, you can tell them over and over and over again how wrong they are and they'll just move from one point to another till they come back to the original point you just disproved to hear them citing it again.

They are no different from Jack Thompson, yeah you heard me, they are no different from the man who says we only want violent video games because we genuinely intend to use them as preparation to torture and murder people. It's just ridiculous.

In the "kill screen" interview with Rihanna Pratchett she says how frustrating she finds it every decision she makes gets scrutinised so unfairly while depictions like Nathan Drake have no scrutiny whatsoever, even when characters like him might be having a clearly negative influence on males being males, not how they treat women, just being human beings.

 

[Darken12]

I would really, really like it if she was a lesbian. To have an LGBT+ protagonist in the industry, especially one with Lara's trajectory, is nothing to scoff at.

Sure, the sexualisation IS a problem, but I want to believe we will be seeing less sexualisation as we move forward with the franchise. And this could be a great move to inspire women and LGBT+ people to join the industry or at least take an interest in gaming.

 

[King Aragorn]

That's pretty meaningless IF things stay like they are, but what i'm afraid this change will bring is them pushing every 5 to 10 minutes that.
''omg she is gay look at how we push boundaries!!!!1!!''

Yeah, I'm all for having more homosexuality in video games (preferably not the slightly disconcerting, way thank you Skyfall) but I don't like the idea of just shoehorning it in as a way to change a character or almost fill some kind of criteria. Especially if other canon sources have had Lara as being straight.

By the way Aragorn, have you just turned up recently? I'm sure I keep seeing a lot of you in threads these past few days...

I think at one point in the future, i'll become more...trusting of media portrayal of gays, but as of now, I approach it everytime with atleast some skepticism.
And yep, joined last week after being linked here on another forum.

 

[AlexWinter]

Then it wouldn't really be Lara Croft. They already changed the formula enough. Couldn't they just create a new IP? Grumble grumble.

Changing a character's sexuality feels like pandering, creating a gay/bi/whatever character feels like progress.

Also a question. Has there ever been a gay, male protagonist? I mean a protagonist that MUST be gay not one that you can make gay a la Commander Shepard.

 

[Cptn_Ab]

OK radical idea instead of the polarized view of gay/not gay why not bi. I've found in most discussions that cover this topic (or something similar) bi is never a viable choice. why is that?

 

[TrulyBritish]

That's pretty meaningless IF things stay like they are, but what i'm afraid this change will bring is them pushing every 5 to 10 minutes that.
''omg she is gay look at how we push boundaries!!!!1!!''

Yeah, I'm all for having more homosexuality in video games (preferably not the slightly disconcerting, way thank you Skyfall) but I don't like the idea of just shoehorning it in as a way to change a character or almost fill some kind of criteria. Especially if other canon sources have had Lara as being straight.

By the way Aragorn, have you just turned up recently? I'm sure I keep seeing a lot of you in threads these past few days...

I think at one point in the future, i'll become more...trusting of media portrayal of gays, but as of now, I approach it everytime with atleast some skepticism.
And yep, joined last week after being linked here on another forum.

Yeah, I agree, whenever the media states they have a gay character (who almost always seems to be some stereotype) I just have to roll my eyes most of the time.
Ah, well welcome aboard then! Your posts do make some interesting reading

 

[TrulyBritish]

Well Tomb Raider has repeatedly been Rebooted. This is the fourth "fresh start" for Lara Croft, she is on her 5th voice actress, and she has officially been brought back from the dead twice.

And the only canon works are the games and the closest she ever gets is with Kurtis in Angel of Darkness, even then you can can't infer any relationship brewing, all indications is that it's entirely platonic. There's more of an intimate and romantic relationship between Dom and Marcus is the Gears of War series, to be fair. They really care about each other and trust each other, more than Kurtis and Lara ever had.

Also, Lara has had so much shoehorned into her character, like making her a conflicted yet cold blooded ninja assassin in the latest Tomb Raider. Also the later games she was hardly raiding Tombs at all, thought they were most definitely tomb-like in being very secure structures filled with puzzles, deathtraps and other dangers with a valuable item inside to obtain.

Lara Croft could have been gay all along, we have no way of knowing one way or another.

If you go read the interview

http://killscreendaily.com/articles/interviews/tomb-raider-writer-rhianna-pratchett-why-every-kill-cant-be-first-and-why-she-wanted-make-lara-croft-gay/

it wasn't to fulfil a criteria and the writer was not in a position to even discuss such a character change. The writer had VERY little control over the character, for instance Rihanna Pratchet (yes, same Pratchet as Terry Pratchett of Discworld fame) essentially was hired to write the in-between scenes but she didn't have control over the overall narrative nor what combat Lara would engage in in between.

What she talked about was earnest and serious, for the sake of art, not sensationalism. And it wasn't even a consideration for the game nor even something she had a say on, to spite being a writer, that's the problem, her job was extremely limited to writing dialogue to string points together not decide on overarching narrative.

I was talking more in general then to just this specific instance, but I see your point here. However now I think about it, I prefer the idea of Lara being specifically Asexual, you never see those characters in video games, or bisexuals really. Nor do I like the idea of changing what was expected of a character, as you said Lara changed so much in this game she might as well not be Lara Croft (And you know, more female protagonists is generally seen as a good thing).
I'd much rather they made a new character who was gay then change a character, but then it is their reboot.
Also, are you sure the games are the only canon work? I thought someone earlier in this thread said there were some canon comics or whatever?

 

[TrulyBritish]

OK radical idea instead of the polarized view of gay/not gay why not bi. I've found in most discussions that cover this topic (or something similar) bi is never a viable choice. why is that?

Heck, if Lara has never really had leanings one way or another why not have her be Asexual? It's always just the two with the media, and the gay ones always seem to be the women or effeminate men. :/
Though I suppose making a character asexual removes any basic romantic plotline, unless you go for a characters struggle to reciprocate attraction for an attracted friend I suppose.

 

[Cptn_Ab]

good point MR British i forgot about that one myself

 

[m19]

Asexual is just bloody weird.

 

[Cptn_Ab]

Asexual is just bloody weird.

not exactly my cuppa tea but by no means am i going to pick on someone that is asexual, that goes for gay lesbian or transgender either. in my opinion when people start thinking the same way we are going to be much better off.

 

[Elf Defiler Korgan]

I would actually like characters, male and female to stop being so damn sexualised with their wants pushed out there and on to us.

The angry homosexual spectre of Dragon age is hovering about, but what I am getting at is as nice as it is to push boundaries and make a character gay or what not, wait, no it isn't nice, it is just getting old. This pandering, this desperation to appeal to a certain demographic (we can get gays and women in with Raiden) is tiresome.

Make the damn games, stop pushing gaming characters as the reps of the sub-cultures upon us. Trying to make a lesbian gaming messiah is caring too much about politics and ticking p.c boxes, and not enough focus on the game and what the character is doing (it is focusing on who they are doing or want to be doing).

End rant.

 

[Elf Defiler Korgan]

OK radical idea instead of the polarized view of gay/not gay why not bi. I've found in most discussions that cover this topic (or something similar) bi is never a viable choice. why is that?

Heck, if Lara has never really had leanings one way or another why not have her be Asexual? It's always just the two with the media, and the gay ones always seem to be the women or effeminate men. :/
Though I suppose making a character asexual removes any basic romantic plotline, unless you go for a characters struggle to reciprocate attraction for an attracted friend I suppose.

Yeah, how about she has such a lust for gold she is totally not for men or women. You know, a tomb raider, not a panty raider.

And then she hums this to herself once in a while:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3IlqY1CbI0

Better than a gay Lara.

 

[sethisjimmy]

I think that article title, and by proxy this thread are a little sensationalist. I found the article pretty interesting. She wasn't cockily coming out and saying "Lara should be gay", the topic of conversation happened to move into gay characters in gaming. Rhianna mentions at one point there was a part of her that considered what it would be like if Lara was gay, and the writer (typically) jumped at that idea and plastered it all over the page, in big quotes and in the title.

I mean, she approaches the subject very delicately in conversation, mentioning how after the controversy surrounding Tomb Raider pre-release she wants to be extremely careful of her phrasing and how she approaches gender and sex related subjects. They talk back and forth about all the things you guys in this thread are debating now, whether a gay characters orientation should or must play some role in their story and development, or whether it should stay quiet as a little "side-note" to try and normalize the idea. They also discuss whether gay characters should be all-powerful badasses to serve as positive media figures for the gay community, or if they should endure the same struggles most real world gay people do, such as discrimination and bullying, confused or repressed self identity, etc. They also talk about that problem in terms of female vs male characters as well, in that a lot of female characters, whether out of laziness or fear of negative reception, are practically "male characters with boobs" in that they're female on the outside, but act identical to the masculine no-fear "badasses" that are typical AAA male characters.

She admits those kinds of decisions are difficult and that she doesn't know the answers, unlike the headline suggests. I know it isn't completely evil to be sensationalist in news, pretty much all news contains some elements that sensationalize to grab our attention, but I feel as if a nice conversation style-interview with some thought-provoking points is being entirely missed out on because the writer chose to promote that one idea as if Rhianna had some sort of agenda for making all your favorite beloved characters gay.