Tomb Raider writer expressed an interest in making Lara gay?
- Thread starter Sack of Cheese
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I'm against this.
Lara Croft would not be gay so lesbian players could have a protagonist to identify with. Lara Croft would be gay so that male players could get off on the idea of her making out with another woman. Do not lie to yourself.
Lara Croft would not be gay so lesbian players could have a protagonist to identify with. Lara Croft would be gay so that male players could get off on the idea of her making out with another woman. Do not lie to yourself.
Sounds legit to me. Lara's sexuality has been permeable at best in the past, so to have her queer in this reboot (note that I think 'gay' is here used as something of a blanket term for anything between homo and bisexual) could be a neat way of evolving the character.
Also, with regards to the people expressing discontent about the alleged lack of "strong straight women" in games, already decrying this as abject tokenism; I believe they need to accept that such a thing as intersectionality exists, and forward strides for women don't somehow have to be taken by heterosexual women first with the queer contingency to follow in their wake at some ill-defined point in the future. Having a gay or bisexual Lara wouldn't negatively impact the concept of straight female leads in the slightest, nor would it negatively impact the character assuming it was handled correctly.
You know, as is the case with any character and their sexuality. Regardless of what that sexuality is.
Also, with regards to the people expressing discontent about the alleged lack of "strong straight women" in games, already decrying this as abject tokenism; I believe they need to accept that such a thing as intersectionality exists, and forward strides for women don't somehow have to be taken by heterosexual women first with the queer contingency to follow in their wake at some ill-defined point in the future. Having a gay or bisexual Lara wouldn't negatively impact the concept of straight female leads in the slightest, nor would it negatively impact the character assuming it was handled correctly.
You know, as is the case with any character and their sexuality. Regardless of what that sexuality is.
I mean, as much as I would love to see more casually gay characters in gaming (note: I'm straight), and while it would explain bits about Lara, I feel like it's too much of a cliche.
With lesbians in video games you have to be careful that it's not just simple fan service, because it can easily devolve in to:
1) Teenage boys like to think about two women having sex.
2) Lets hint at it in our game.
3) ???
4) PROFIT!!!
What I want to see is characters who are gay where it isn't really brought up. We know they have a boyfriend/girlfriend, but there in such a situation as to rarely express that affection (as most games don't exactly have tons of chances for the characters to get all private and shit), and their sexuality is simply an ancillary choice rather than the crux of who they are.
Thankfully I just started making games so I will be putting characters like that in there, and also some genuinely strong and independent females, damn it!!!
With lesbians in video games you have to be careful that it's not just simple fan service, because it can easily devolve in to:
1) Teenage boys like to think about two women having sex.
2) Lets hint at it in our game.
3) ???
4) PROFIT!!!
What I want to see is characters who are gay where it isn't really brought up. We know they have a boyfriend/girlfriend, but there in such a situation as to rarely express that affection (as most games don't exactly have tons of chances for the characters to get all private and shit), and their sexuality is simply an ancillary choice rather than the crux of who they are.
Thankfully I just started making games so I will be putting characters like that in there, and also some genuinely strong and independent females, damn it!!!
Great article! Thanks for posting it.Sack of Cheese said:
I personally don't have much investment in Lara being gay, straight, bi, or whatever - I've never played a Tomb Raider game. Actually, I've been considering picking up the current one due to some moderately good feedback. This article has increased my interest in the game quite a bit, actually, because after reading Rhianna Pratchett's take on the character, I am sold.
Moveover, I just really liked what Rhianna Pratchett said about getting non-white male characters into more games. I think she's summed up something I've been trying to say and did it well. Yes, just cramming female, gay, non-white characters into games isn't the best thing, but it is a good first step that will open the way to more depth and better writing over time.
So yeah, because Rhianna Pratchett gave an excellent interview, I am now far more interested in playing Tomb Raider which she worked on. Good PR, Rhianna. And I hope you continue to pursue your vision of female, gay, and non-white characters in games.
Thanks again, OP, for posting this.
Wow, despite not agreeing with the article claiming that all gamers have contradictory opinions, I do sometimes feel that gamers are by our nature contrary. It's like the Turian Councilor in Mass Effect 1: no matter what action you take he criticizes it, even though there are only two options. Here we see people who criticize games for lacking variety in regards to sexuality of main characters automatically assuming that if it were otherwise it would be phoned in fanservice. Kinda makes us sound completely unpleasable. Ah well, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
OT-
For me, I don't care what the sexuality of a main character is, but I do feel it should be established and stuck with. Someone mentioned a possible feature in games being the ability to pick your sexuality in a game where you are given romantic choice (Bioware games). This would lead to less awkward situations where the main character seems to attract everything that moves.
OT-
For me, I don't care what the sexuality of a main character is, but I do feel it should be established and stuck with. Someone mentioned a possible feature in games being the ability to pick your sexuality in a game where you are given romantic choice (Bioware games). This would lead to less awkward situations where the main character seems to attract everything that moves.
To be fair there are quite a few gay female characters just based on the fact the devs can't be bothered to change the dialogue from the male default.BloatedGuppy said:
I think straight female protagonists are much rarer. (and as Fappy pointed out they are almost never in an actual relationship)
Can you give me an example of the former? I've been gaming a long time and cannot think of any offhand. It's possible this is a console phenomenon and I've just not seen it.Moonlight Butterfly said:
Female protagonists in general are rare, but all the ones I can think of have either been heterosexual, asexual, or Bioware-Sexual.
That's gamers for you. I sometimes feel really sorry for developers trying to write characters. Bioware get a hard time on their forums no matter what they do. If they don't include a homosexual character they are "homophobes", if they do it's "pandering". It's no real surprise that they end up getting a bit snarky in their responses.TheCommanders said:
In regards to this, I wouldn't be against it if they had made her a lesbian, but to be honest, I can't see what relevance it would have. It's not like her sexuality has ever had any importance in the series so far.
Veronica, Christine and Corporal Betsy in Fallout New Vegas are the first that come to mind for me. I am sure I have seen more, but they are normally "background" characters.BloatedGuppy said:
Traynor in Mass Effect 3 is one as well.
Fallout 3, Kingdoms of Amalur, (lesbian marriage how progressive >_>) are just two I can think off off the top of my head I could probably think of more with time. In many games it's straight up presumed the actual player is a man even though the character is female. It's also mentioned in this article involving Echo Bazaar. There are also plenty of RPG's where the other female character will flirt with you even though you are playing a female.BloatedGuppy said:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/features/9024-The-Accidental-Lesbian
It was just nice to have at least one tough female character who was straight. Straight women are as much of a minority when it comes to being catered to in games and now you are asking us to give up Lara.
Just gay for the sake of gay?
No. Stupid idea.
Who cares if she's gay, it's not part of the main storyline or the gameplay and will be a superfluous change.
No. Stupid idea.
Who cares if she's gay, it's not part of the main storyline or the gameplay and will be a superfluous change.
Hmm. I played Fallout 3 as a female, and I can't recall the game presuming I was a lesbian. New Vegas either. Possibly I just wasn't paying close enough attention.Moonlight Butterfly said:
I do remember a couple of incidents in past games where the masculine pronoun was used and my character was female, and I found it deeply irritating. I couldn't tell you offhand which games it occurred in though.
They are few in number, it is true. However, they are legion compared to Gay/Lesbian protagonists. I honestly cannot think of one off the top of my head. I'm not sure Bioware counts, since you're either straight as a flagpole or you're a ferociously horny pan-sexual who will jump the bones of anything regardless of gender or species.
Why would that be more of a "special" characterization element than anything else? Why wouldn't we say "straight for the sake of straight"? Why are minority characteristics considered aberrant?GameChanger said:
Reminds me of this:
I want to thank you for introducing the term "bioware-sexual" into my life. ^_^ That just made me smile. I'm going to have to keep that little morsel in my back pocket.BloatedGuppy said:
I think in Fallout 3 it was more that women were flirty to you and the men treated you like you are chopped liver. Lesbians are pretty well catered to by a side effect of the lazy dev.BloatedGuppy said:
Gay men however are as out of luck as straight women.
You could be right. The writing in that game was so appalling I paid scant attention to it at the best of times. I busied myself crawling around on dusty bluffs and digging in the rubble for stimpacks.Moonlight Butterfly said:
Good times.
Oh I loved the game. I just wish they had paid more attention to the writing. New Vegas was much better and has better dialogue options.BloatedGuppy said:
I did as well. When I say "good times" I'm only being half-sarcastic. I love survival games, and I love post-apocalyptic milieus. Digging around in the rubble actually DOES enthrall me.Moonlight Butterfly said:
New Vegas was the better written, more story driven game (Obsidian trumps Bethesda on writing and story presentation, quelle surprise), but I think I preferred the atmosphere of FO3. The capital wasteland was a blasted, haunting ruin. New Vegas was positively jocular by comparison. I guess it did capture more of Fallout's trademark black humor, I just never felt as immersed.
However I digress. We are veering badly off topic.
I don't wanna seem like I am against gays, which I am not but making Lara gay just seem like a weak attempt at feeling modern. However if she desperately wanted Lara to be gay make her bisexual thus, showing Lara is not tied down by normal conventions and will sleep with whomever she pleases, which 1. doesn't ruin any previous knowledge of her and 2. doesn't make it feel like a desperate attempt at feeling edgy/modern.