Tomb Raider writer expressed an interest in making Lara gay?

[Darken12]

That one was so bad and offensive I felt ill just from reading the article about the "gay planet". Seriously it would be just as bad and insulting considering I'm 50% black if there was planet full of blacks.I've always found it weird how people freak after hearing someone they know is gay or bi-sexual and I can say is those people need a lesson in life.

The absolute BEST part of that was reading the comments here at The Escapist saying things along the lines of "See? This is why you don't listen to the minorities! Look at them, you give them what they want and they just whine harder!" or other similar "Ungrateful whiners!" attacks.

I was tempted to post something along the lines of "Yes, we should all be grateful for the mouldy, rotten scraps they throw at us. Sorry. We shall endeavour to be more grateful in the future" but I knew it would've been useless.

 

[King Aragorn]

snip

The problem isn't a gay character in itself. Hell, I welcome those. I don't mind gay, black, female, trans, bi or asexual characters in my games, what I dislike is when a developer/writer throws it in as a publicity stunt/attempt at being ''edgy'', and tries to tell you every 5 to 10 minute.
''Hey, look at this gay character! we're modern and take risks!''
Also, as another member noted, a character being made gay is always an afterthought by the dev. The character isn't designed or made to be homosexual from scratch, but rather added late in development when they see that adding homosexuality won't ''effect'' their sales.

But why does it have to be like that?Why can't a character just be gay without people going "oh they are just trying to be edgy".I've written gay characters before and I never make they're sexuality a big deal,hell most gay people don't even announce they are gay they often are normal people with normal jobs and normal lives.

I just wish people would stop panicking when a character is revealed to be gay,it's annoying and quite frankly offensive to gay people that they are treated like they are from a different planet.

Because I don't trust any form of media enough to write gay characters well, specially in video games. Where a rape scene is a huge deal.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

Groan. I would hate it because it seems like a trope that there can't be any straight tough women.

Yep, exactly. This reboot has been about getting away from the tropes and cliches that have defined much of Lara's character in the past. If Lara was a lesbian, it would just be moving into that other hold trope that "bad-ass women are butch." UNLESS the writers REALLY know what they're doing and were able to introduce Lara as homosexual while dodging that trope, which is possible, but would be very difficult; as much as I enjoyed the new Tomb Raider and give credit to the writers, I don't think that Ms. Pratchett et. all are quite up to that task.

I don't like the idea but not because I have something against homosexuality. They were trying to move away from overxesualization of Lara with this reboot. And I liked that. I really love the game. Now, everybody knows that guys like girl on girl action. So if they made Lara gay, it would have felt forced and immature no matter how they implemented it. Lara's sexuality isn't something the game should be focusing on.

Another good point I wanted to make. Unless you subscribe to the ideology that "minorities have been shutout and underrepresented for so long, so we need to take every opportunity to showcase them" (which I don't), then there's no reason to broach the topic at all.

As a writer, the only question that needs to be asked is, "Will this make the story better?" Tomb Raider is a story about a person physically surviving despite incredible odds and then dominating the threats; it's about exploration and discovery in dangerous environments. I don't see how a subplot of "Lara is homosexual" would contribute to that; it would just be a major distraction from what the story is trying to accomplish UNLESS, as I stated above, the writers REALLY knew what they were doing.

And as a final thought, straight females need relatable characters too, especially in light of the "bad-ass women are butch" trope; it seems mildly unfair to declare Lara homosexual, making her more relatable to the lesbian community (assuming the writers didn't fall on straight-male-pandering "Yay! Lesbians!" tropes), but then less relatable to the much larger straight female gaming community which has been lacking in relatable and capable straight female characters since...well, for as long as gaming has existed.

 

[Darken12]

As a writer, the only question that needs to be asked is, "Will this make the story better?"

If you believe that minority representation is a good thing, it will always make your story better. If you do not believe that, it will never make your story better. It's not a conditional thing that depends on the story. It depends wholly on the personal ideologies of the author and the audience.

I don't see how a subplot of "Lara is homosexual" would contribute to that

Being gay is not a subplot. Where is the "Lara is a woman" subplot, then? Or the "Lara is white" subplot? Our identities are not subplots. We as LGBT+ people do not exist for the enjoyment of an external viewer.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I would really, really like it if she was a lesbian. To have an LGBT+ protagonist in the industry, especially one with Lara's trajectory, is nothing to scoff at.

Sure, the sexualisation IS a problem, but I want to believe we will be seeing less sexualisation as we move forward with the franchise. And this could be a great move to inspire women and LGBT+ people to join the industry or at least take an interest in gaming.

The thing is straight female protagonists are as much, if not more, of a minority than lesbian ones. I think I would feel really really deprived as a straight female gamer if she was made to be gay.

Frankly I think representation in video games goes Straight guy, lesbian, straight women, gay guy.

There are so many games where the female character can have a relationship or flirt with female npcs just on the basis that they didn't change the dialogue from a male. In those games the men almost always treat you like you fell out the ugly tree. That's not even counting actual lesbian characters.

How many games can you list where a straight female protagonist has an on screen relationship with a male outside Bioware games (where again there is almost always less choice for straight women). I don't think I can think of any...maybe Jennifer out of Primal? Obscure ps1 game :S and even then you just see her bf briefly at the end.

 

[jcfrommars9]

snip

The problem isn't a gay character in itself. Hell, I welcome those. I don't mind gay, black, female, trans, bi or asexual characters in my games, what I dislike is when a developer/writer throws it in as a publicity stunt/attempt at being ''edgy'', and tries to tell you every 5 to 10 minute.
''Hey, look at this gay character! we're modern and take risks!''
Also, as another member noted, a character being made gay is always an afterthought by the dev. The character isn't designed or made to be homosexual from scratch, but rather added late in development when they see that adding homosexuality won't ''effect'' their sales.

But why does it have to be like that?Why can't a character just be gay without people going "oh they are just trying to be edgy".I've written gay characters before and I never make they're sexuality a big deal,hell most gay people don't even announce they are gay they often are normal people with normal jobs and normal lives.

I just wish people would stop panicking when a character is revealed to be gay,it's annoying and quite frankly offensive to gay people that they are treated like they are from a different planet.

What King Aragorn is addressing are the people who do write gay, female characters and/or characters of a different race and try to make either a big deal. That doesn't work nor should it. I wish people stop panicking when a character is revealed to be gay as well because I find it equally as annoying but I also don't want them trying to throw that or anything else that is considered "edgy" in as an afterthought when they think it won't hurt sales. That assumes only the worst from all of us.

 

[JediMB]

Yep, exactly. This reboot has been about getting away from the tropes and cliches that have defined much of Lara's character in the past. If Lara was a lesbian, it would just be moving into that other hold trope that "bad-ass women are butch." UNLESS the writers REALLY know what they're doing and were able to introduce Lara as homosexual while dodging that trope, which is possible, but would be very difficult; as much as I enjoyed the new Tomb Raider and give credit to the writers, I don't think that Ms. Pratchett et. all are quite up to that task.

Wait, what? How would being a lesbian suddenly make Lara butch? Not that I give a damn about traditional definitions of masculinity or femininity. Either way, the reboot has already established Lara as an introverted archaeology geek, through Sam's journal entries. (Those same journals also heavily imply that both Sam and Lara are straight.)

And, of course, the true problem at hand is that video games don't have enough proper female protagonists. If there were more to begin with, we wouldn't have to spend this time discussing what sexual/romantic preferences are in most need of representation.

 

[Sixcess]

Your cynicism is quite painful to read. Considering Pratchett's deliberate and reasonable comments on the subject, I doubt any such thing would've been the case.

Regardless of the writer's intent, and considering how incompetent Crystal Dynamics was at handling the other controversial story points, I think they'd have handled Lara's sexuality just as incompetently.

Really, can you imagine Ron 'Rape Scene' Rosenberg talking about Lara being a lesbian without doing it in a leering, sleazy, one hand under the table way? 'Cos I can't.

And even if they muzzled that cretin and put someone with a working brain in front of the press the media would have had a field day with it.

On-topic: it's a stupid idea and I'm glad it wasn't considered. Lara has never had any in-game romantic attachements that I know of (the movies are another matter) but suddenly coming out* with "Oh and she's a lesbian now" would go against what the majority of people have always assumed is her sexuality, as well as making an absolute farce of their claims to be de-sexualising the character.

[sub]*pun intended[/sub]

 

[ZLAY]

So, the only way to write a lesbian character is to pander to horny male audience and/or to grab media attention?
The way some of you think is down right insulting.

If they do decide to portray romance sub plot well, I'm all for it.

 

[JediMB]

On-topic: it's a stupid idea and I'm glad it wasn't considered. Lara has never had any in-game romantic attachements that I know of (the movies are another matter) but suddenly coming out* with "Oh and she's a lesbian now" would go against what the majority of people have always assumed is her sexuality, as well as making an absolute farce of their claims to be de-sexualising the character.

So if Sam's journal entry about her and Lara meeting some cute boys had also mentioned that Lara seemed more interested in the girls, that would have made the character more sexualized?

That's a bit hard for me to swallow.

 

[m19]

In the game you can find Sam's diary where she talks about her and Lara on a trip unexpectedly meeting cute young men to Lara's surprise and them having fun therefore. Rather on the nose really, they both like boys.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

So, the only way to write a lesbian character is to pander to horny male audience and/or to grab media attention?
The way some of you think is down right insulting.

If they do decide to portray romance sub plot well, I'm all for it.

I agree some of them think a gay character can't be written unless you make a big deal about them being gay.

My problem is there aren't enough tough straight female protagonists, not that it would be implausible/ ridiculous.

 

[Sixcess]

So if Sam's journal entry about her and Lara meeting some cute boys had also mentioned that Lara seemed more interested in the girls, that would have made the character more sexualized?

Yes.

Like it or not a character being gay or lesbian remains a character trait in a way that being heterosexual is not. Think of any popular entertainment medium - film, television, video games,comics - gay and lesbian characters are usually designated as The Gay Character (unless it is a specifically LGBT-interest piece) whereas hetero characters are never described as The Heterosexual Character. Alluding to Lara being a lesbian would make that her sexuality one of her distinctive character traits in a way that being heterosexual would not.

I'm not saying that's how it should be - I'm saying that's how it is.

So, the only way to write a lesbian character is to pander to horny male audience and/or to grab media attention?

The only way to write a lesbian character in any medium? No, of course not.
The only way to write a lesbian character in a mainstream action/adventure, when said character has been a major video gaming sex symbol for more than 15 years? Yes.

 

[Sack of Cheese]

In the game you can find Sam's diary where she talks about her and Lara on a trip unexpectedly meeting cute young men to Lara's surprise and them having fun therefore. Rather on the nose really, they both like boys.

Why, actually it implied Lara and Sam were meeting "cute boys" (in Sam's words, not Lara's), in which Lara was initially uninterested in and it came with no reference to what happened with them.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

As a writer, the only question that needs to be asked is, "Will this make the story better?"

If you believe that minority representation is a good thing, it will always make your story better. If you do not believe that, it will never make your story better. It's not a conditional thing that depends on the story. It depends wholly on the personal ideologies of the author and the audience.

You're not a writer are you? Well I am, and I can tell you that there is a natural flow to the storytelling process. Inserting a personal view/goal/agenda when it doesn't naturally fit into the overall story makes for a contrived inclusion. It IS a conditional thing that depends on the story, if you want a good story. There's only so much you can do to "make it work" in a good story; you can't just force it because you want to. A good story grows organically out of the author's mind based on the natural interaction of character/plot/theme. But now I'm getting into denser literary theory and philosophy and there are many other writers out there who wouldn't even agree with me because literary theory is not absolute, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I don't see how a subplot of "Lara is homosexual" would contribute to that

Being gay is not a subplot. Where is the "Lara is a woman" subplot, then? Or the "Lara is white" subplot? Our identities are not subplots. We as LGBT+ people do not exist for the enjoyment of an external viewer.

"Man", "woman", and "straight" are identities that have been socially accepted for so long that the audience demands no explanation or extrapolation. Gender and sexual identities outside of those have not reached that level of common acceptance, therefore the audience expects some level of extrapolation.

If Lara, a character with no defined sexuality (in the video games anyway), made her attraction to a man known, that would barely register in the minds of most audience members because that is the social norm. If Lara was written as being attracted to a woman, that WOULD register because it is less socially normalized, and then you have a much more precarious situation on your hands as a storyteller. If the story just said, "she's gay, and were not going to talk about it anymore" the writer runs the risk of making her sexuality come across as token and inconsequential, begging the question in many minds: "Why'd they even bother bringing it up?" On the other hand, if the story devotes a larger amount of attention to it, the writer runs the risk of over-emphasizing it to the point of stealing focus away from the core story (as Tomb Raider is not a story about sexual identity), UNLESS (as I said in my earlier post) the writers REALLY know what they're doing. It's a delicate procedure anytime a writer explores something outside of social norms, especially social norms that can be "hot-button" issues for a lot of people, such as sexual/gender identity.

I can understand why this is frustrating to the LGBT+ community, but it is fact: until alternate sexual/gender identities are as mainstream as man/woman/straight are, those identities will be subject to further scrutiny, and that includes within storytelling.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

So, the only way to write a lesbian character is to pander to horny male audience and/or to grab media attention?
The way some of you think is down right insulting.

If they do decide to portray romance sub plot well, I'm all for it.

I agree some of them think a gay character can't be written unless you make a big deal about them being gay.

My problem is there aren't enough tough straight female protagonists, not that it would be implausible/ ridiculous.

I agree that there needs to be more strong female protoganists, but IMO it should'nt matter whether they are straight or gay as long as they are written well.

Well it would be nice to have at least one relatable character for straight women.