Thrice is a word through it is so nice you won't just want it once not twice but Thrice.Lukeje said:
top 10 arguments I disagree with
- Thread starter Vault101
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sorry to argue coz you had some interesting points but everything does die and everything is dying, nothing lasts forever not you, me, the earth, the sun, the galaxies...Vault101 said:
rabidmidget said:
In relation to this I just had to post to the following video( jump to 1:55) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDaf0t3YSq0
Intellectual property is being stolen when you download or buy a pirated movie or game. It is "theft," though not in the same way taking a chocolate bar is, but this is why the laws were updated with the advent of the internet and user-transferable data.TestECull said:
It is a form of theft, and though it is a little unnerving when people talk about piracy like someone just stole a truck of DVDs, it's a violation of copyright laws for a reason - IP can be "stolen". Saying it isn't a kind of theft? THAT'S bullshit.
Im surprised theres somone else who actually cared about Dad in fallout 3, I will say that the original ending was pretty bad however, not only was it just so depressing, it also slaped you in the face for being good (and didnt make much sense)loukasmaki said:10. Well PC gaming is changing atleast. Since people really don't need a big bulky PC in their homes anymore so justifying that expense only for gaming is troublesome.Vault101 said:
It's even questionable if a laptop is needed anymore (depending on your computer needs)
9. *THERE BE SPOILERS HERE* I really liked Fallout 3. I cared about the main character and his dad. I even skipped most of the side quests and focused on the main story because I felt an urgency to save his dad (and I thought I could go back and do the quests afterwards anyway). In the end I could have won the last encounter with conversation and let the bad guy go but no I reacted purely on emotion and thought to myself "You killed my dad and I'm gonna take you down!" and shot him in the face. After that I sacrificed myself to stop the radioation poluting the water and died. And I can't bring myself to replay the game. The story is told, this is what happened. That's what I call immersion. And as someone else pointed out the franchise was dead up to that point so I don't see what the issue is.
8. When I play a RPG I want to ROLEPLAY. Play the role as a character. Not dick around in an inventory and spend obscene amounts of time customizing 6 diffrent characters weapons and armour. So in Mass Effect it was a relief that the inventory as such didn't really matter.
What I still have a problem with in Mass Effect is that even if I am a Super Agent in SPAAAACEEE I still have to put up with doing meaningless tasks for meaningless people to get ahead in the story.
"You want me to go and square your debt with that dude and THEN you'll give me the information I need? Hell no I'm gonna take you into an interrogation room and beat you until tell me what I want" <-- This is the Commander Shepard I would have played if the option had existed.
And what I hope that more artsy games will bring to the rest of the gaming world is new ideas and perspectve. Speaking of artsy or pretentious games: http://impulsedriven.com/graveyard
5. Well everything dying is but in a much broader sense but it is a rather pointless discussion to be had
4. Depends.. sometimes a game really doesn't need a sequal. While I liked portal 2 it didn't the same appeal as portal 1. And I really don't wish to see a Portal 3.
I would sugest playing the GOTOY edition, if not just for Broken steel (continues the main story) but also theres some good DLC there (only bad thing is theres no real "ending"...you just kinda stop playing...its a strange feeling)
as for ME its not like inventory management and sidequests are bad, they just didnt add anything to the game and losing them wasnt a bad thing
anyway I would feel fine if there wasnt a Portal 3 (wouldnt be the same without chell) Im soo glad they wraped up the story more or less (yet still leaving it somwhat ambiguious)
if there was a portal 3 anounced I wouldnt condemn it untill I played it
Er, bro, the fact that in a game you come back to life after said death due to said singular bullet IS a way that helps many live out their fantasies.Daaaah Whoosh said:
Some people get fed up with so many of the stupid people that seem to cluster in this world, and need a little help releasing their anger without making a bad decision. So, they won't go on actual shooting rampages, but at least they got to kill a few people in Gameland.
PS. I'm so effing tired right now. If this post is a mess, excuse me.
Correct conclusion, Incorrect reasoning.TestECull said:
It's the perception that PC games and Console games occupy the same space because of multiplatform releases. In the vast majority of multiplatform releases, it's the console version that gets the most attention during development; this is partly because PCs can backtrack down to consoles, performance-wise, while consoles are stuck where they are.
But mostly, it's because PC is 2nd fiddle in multiplatform launches; consoles are just a stronger market, and a more secure market for the big publishers. The only real incentive to do multiplatform publishing is to fill out the rest of the demand curve (economics talking).
Knowing this, if you see a multiplatform launch that includes PC, it will launch as a console game that happens to work on PC. This isn't supposition or interpretation; it's practical fact.
While not as popular to develop for in the mainstream, there are still PC-centric titles. On rare occasion, they get ported to consoles.
The reason your reasoning is incorrect is because these multiplatform titles still sell incredibly well on consoles; making any market adjustments or criticism from the PC gamers moot. PC gamers could stop buying these console ports tomorrow, and these games wouldn't budge an inch from their current development standards.
In short: If the developers were going to make two versions, they would make two distinct versions, but they don't, and the PC market isn't nearly strong enough to carry the weight to convince them to do so.
AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT
OT: Of all the other points I see, only one really sticks out at me.
Failout 3.
I'll lay it out: I fucking hated Fallout 3. I despise that game. It's a very rare occasion where I feel cheated when I finish a game, but Fallout 3 managed it. I wouldn't even take it for free today.
Irrelevant ranting aside, I honestly feel that it didn't deserve any GOTY accolades, but to even bother arguing it is pointless; I'm not going to change anyone's mind, and unless they have the powers of time travel, they won't be able to undo my horrible experiences with the game either.
And this is coming from someone who didn't play a single minute of either of the original Fallout games before Fallout 3. So much for stereotypes, assumptions, and preconceptions, huh?
6. What is it with people and this strange concept of what art is. It?s been put on weird, pretentious, super serious face pedestal.
You want to know what art is? It?s something that exists to fill our otherwise mundane lives. It?s something that doesn?t serve a practical purpose. Art is something that is there to fill our heads with, it exists to inspire a thought and/or a feeling. Fun is a feeling, but it?s not the only feeling or the only thing that may lead us to be enthralled and entertained by something. Videogames won?t suddenly change when given the label of art; videogames as they are now are finally being considered as art.
You want to know what art is? It?s something that exists to fill our otherwise mundane lives. It?s something that doesn?t serve a practical purpose. Art is something that is there to fill our heads with, it exists to inspire a thought and/or a feeling. Fun is a feeling, but it?s not the only feeling or the only thing that may lead us to be enthralled and entertained by something. Videogames won?t suddenly change when given the label of art; videogames as they are now are finally being considered as art.
Ok just cause im bored waiting for E3 newsVault101 said:
10. PC gaming has been on its death bed longer then Aunt May...Its not goin to die.
9. Although some people may have real reasons why they did not like Fallout 3 im pretty sure the main reason is haters got to hate. People like it so to be kool in thier minds they have to trash it. Kind of like hipsters and thier damn indie bands.
8. I love some of the changes in Mass Effect 2. I wish we could add stuff to our weapons but yes I agree the mako can go to hell.
7. Depends what im in the mood for but at times I love realism. You can only see people riding big bird around so many times before you want to see dark gritty world.
6. Art is in the eye of the beholder.
5. "back in the day" bullshit
4. If done right thier amazing and you can continue the story of characters that you grown to love. Works well in books.
3. Pointless dick waveing
2. O god yes nothing worse then a mute freak with no purpose.
1. Up thier with "u mad" and "nice story bro"
10. Agree with this, even if I don't really PC game.
9. I freaking love Fallout 3. Okay I never played Fallout 1+2 but I don't get what was wrong with Fallout 3 besides it not being Fallout 1+2. Maybe all I heard was the fanboys.
8. Not sure if you really meant the dumbing down for ME2, but I'll guess that you are. I don't agree with this. Sure ME was not the next Deus Ex, but what it did it did well, and I actually found it to be a nice jumping on point for someone who liked the concept of RPGs but didn't want to wade through the absurd difficulty of games like Deus Ex. I have since gone on to play those game though, and enjoyed them, but mainly because I started with simpler things like ME and KoToR. I'm in the middle of replaying ME2 right now, and the more I play, the less I enjoy it. It feels less like a ME game, less like a Role-Playing game, and more like a cover based third person shooter with an overly elaborate conversation wheel. Argue that the upgrades and levelling in ME1 was basic, sure, but at least it let you have some control and compromise. If you wanted a stealth based character, you couldn't have a gun toting tank, there weren't enough skill points. Now it is entirely possible in one playthrough to have a stealthy damage absorbing uber hacker sniper, with little or no effort. The dumbing down removed any sense of personality between different playthroughs. You always play Commander Shepard as BioWare intended you to, not as you might want to play him/her. If they keep dumbing down any further ME2 will just be Gears of War 3: IN SPACE!
and I liked the mako dammit.
7. I think it's more, 'realism is so widespread it's corrupting everything.' You can't have a sandbox where cars don't handle like real life, not even in GTA, you can't have a DN or Halo: CE style shooter anymore, they all have to have regenerating health and cover based combat. And even then, the closer we get to realism, the more ridiculous I think it gets. As Yahtzee pointed out, a realistic shooter would involve you getting shot once then spending a year in hospital. And most 'realistic shooters' aren't even that realistic. America's Army is realistic and that game is fucking impossible. If mainstream shooters really were realistic then they wouldn't be mainstream because the average person wouldn't be able to play them.
6. Yeah totally agree with this one. Even made this exact same argument on a forum thread a few weeks ago.
5. Ha.
4. I do like me some sequels. I even like reboots, assuming they do things well. It's that weird situation of idolising the original I find odd. Tomb Raider 1 has not stood the test of time in any way, and although yes there were some quirks in Anniversary it was a much better game that actually bothered to have a story. In other words, it was a much better game. And I'm the biggest TR fanboy you could find.
3. Again, yeah I agree. All good at what they do really, they just do different things. Doesn't make them better or worse.
2. I think what people misunderstand is the difference between a 'blank' character and a 'silent' character. A 'silent' character can still have a lot of storytelling done through their interactions with the world, a 'blank' character would stand in a corner and do nothing.
1. Again, as a gamer, I'd be hard pressed to argue this one positively. I think this one stems from the interpretation of 'childish' things not being right for adults to engage in, and extends to cartoons, comics, animated films, fairytales. It sounds ridiculous but even the fact that Waterstones segregates their books as '5-8, 9-12, teenage, Fiction' fills me with rage. I first read James Bond at age 9, and nowadays I enjoy reading Skulduggery Pleasant at age 21. I understand in part that it's more about letting parents know what's appropriate for their children, but that doesn't stop you from putting Skulduggery Pleasant in fiction as well as in 9-12 does it? And for the love of god get rid of the 'Dark Fantasy' section.
Sorry, this rant had a point.
My current pet peeve I'm most aware of is when people talking about historical events say 'we.' No 'you' did not hold out against the Nazis in the Battle of Britain, 1940s Britain held out, the people of 1940s Britain held out, potentially your grandparents and ancestors held out, but you did not. And don't try and argue that it's about convenience 'they' doesn't take any longer to type or say.
9. I freaking love Fallout 3. Okay I never played Fallout 1+2 but I don't get what was wrong with Fallout 3 besides it not being Fallout 1+2. Maybe all I heard was the fanboys.
8. Not sure if you really meant the dumbing down for ME2, but I'll guess that you are. I don't agree with this. Sure ME was not the next Deus Ex, but what it did it did well, and I actually found it to be a nice jumping on point for someone who liked the concept of RPGs but didn't want to wade through the absurd difficulty of games like Deus Ex. I have since gone on to play those game though, and enjoyed them, but mainly because I started with simpler things like ME and KoToR. I'm in the middle of replaying ME2 right now, and the more I play, the less I enjoy it. It feels less like a ME game, less like a Role-Playing game, and more like a cover based third person shooter with an overly elaborate conversation wheel. Argue that the upgrades and levelling in ME1 was basic, sure, but at least it let you have some control and compromise. If you wanted a stealth based character, you couldn't have a gun toting tank, there weren't enough skill points. Now it is entirely possible in one playthrough to have a stealthy damage absorbing uber hacker sniper, with little or no effort. The dumbing down removed any sense of personality between different playthroughs. You always play Commander Shepard as BioWare intended you to, not as you might want to play him/her. If they keep dumbing down any further ME2 will just be Gears of War 3: IN SPACE!
and I liked the mako dammit.
7. I think it's more, 'realism is so widespread it's corrupting everything.' You can't have a sandbox where cars don't handle like real life, not even in GTA, you can't have a DN or Halo: CE style shooter anymore, they all have to have regenerating health and cover based combat. And even then, the closer we get to realism, the more ridiculous I think it gets. As Yahtzee pointed out, a realistic shooter would involve you getting shot once then spending a year in hospital. And most 'realistic shooters' aren't even that realistic. America's Army is realistic and that game is fucking impossible. If mainstream shooters really were realistic then they wouldn't be mainstream because the average person wouldn't be able to play them.
6. Yeah totally agree with this one. Even made this exact same argument on a forum thread a few weeks ago.
5. Ha.
4. I do like me some sequels. I even like reboots, assuming they do things well. It's that weird situation of idolising the original I find odd. Tomb Raider 1 has not stood the test of time in any way, and although yes there were some quirks in Anniversary it was a much better game that actually bothered to have a story. In other words, it was a much better game. And I'm the biggest TR fanboy you could find.
3. Again, yeah I agree. All good at what they do really, they just do different things. Doesn't make them better or worse.
2. I think what people misunderstand is the difference between a 'blank' character and a 'silent' character. A 'silent' character can still have a lot of storytelling done through their interactions with the world, a 'blank' character would stand in a corner and do nothing.
1. Again, as a gamer, I'd be hard pressed to argue this one positively. I think this one stems from the interpretation of 'childish' things not being right for adults to engage in, and extends to cartoons, comics, animated films, fairytales. It sounds ridiculous but even the fact that Waterstones segregates their books as '5-8, 9-12, teenage, Fiction' fills me with rage. I first read James Bond at age 9, and nowadays I enjoy reading Skulduggery Pleasant at age 21. I understand in part that it's more about letting parents know what's appropriate for their children, but that doesn't stop you from putting Skulduggery Pleasant in fiction as well as in 9-12 does it? And for the love of god get rid of the 'Dark Fantasy' section.
Sorry, this rant had a point.
My current pet peeve I'm most aware of is when people talking about historical events say 'we.' No 'you' did not hold out against the Nazis in the Battle of Britain, 1940s Britain held out, the people of 1940s Britain held out, potentially your grandparents and ancestors held out, but you did not. And don't try and argue that it's about convenience 'they' doesn't take any longer to type or say.
But everything is dieing even non-living things die.Grabbin Keelz said:
Our very planet could be sucked up by a random blackhole,smashed by a meteor,etc.
So, where did all these arguments come from?
Some of them, like #6, I just find myself staring blankly at aftr reading.
Some of them, like #6, I just find myself staring blankly at aftr reading.
And lockpick, explosives, barter, stealth, speech, medicine, repair, science. Maybe I played a different game to you but I wasn't a tank who went around murdering everything in the wasteland. if I hadn't had a high speech skill to get me out of trouble, a high stealth skill to avoid getting me into trouble, and high medicine and repair for the few times I did, I wouldn't have survived past level 5. And without lockpicking or science you miss a whole bunch of interesting stuff. Again, maybe you played a bullet sponge but I found combat pretty hectic what with no health or endurance. Inventory system was crap, I agree there.Drummie666 said:
I had wind playing through my jagged rocks. Maybe it was a glitch in your game or something but when I go and stand between some cliffs I get a nice whooshing sound, and if I'm out in the middle of the plains I can hear all sorts of interesting noises.Drummie666 said:
Immersion's pretty personal I guess. I don't like games that give me everything, I like working for them. In fact, working for them often draws me in more. When I finally manage to limp to the bottom of a Raider cave, bleeding and crippled and poisoned, finding a bed and an awesome gun I will use forever make the conquest all the sweeter. Running over a box or a discarded gun in an FPS is all well and good and fun in its own way but everything feels like a challenge for me in Fallout. You can never just have something, you have to work for it.Drummie666 said:
Gordon Freeman isn't a 'blank' character, he's a silent character. There's a difference. Blank characters have no emotion, no interaction with the story besides killing things or moving things around. Blank charcters could be entirely replaced with a robot armed with a gun in one hand and a winch in the other.BreakfastMan said:
I don't like Gordon Freeman or Half Life personally, but I will admit that the characterisation of Gordon, without even using dialogue, is pretty interesting. The way you interact, and indeed are forced to interact with the world offers you a lot of insights into his life. You can defend yourself against enemies, but you aren't an immortal health regenerating bullet sponge who can take a full clip to the face. Therefore his character is in good shape and used to weapons, but still has weaknesses to him.
Everyone pretty much looks at you as a jumpsuited Jesus. Clearly you have done things which have made you this popular with everyone. Your character is a hero, a face and a personality which people look up to.
You save the world (sort of, maybe) Your quest (which sure you have no input over) is to save the world. The fact that you do this regardless of whether the player wants to or not shows that this character is accepting of his quest and of his destiny. He is going to save the world dammit, because that's what he does. It's not like an RPG where you can choose to take over the world OR save it. Gordon has a character, and that character is going to save the world.
Silent=/= blank. Chell is blank, her role could be replaced (and indeed was) with a robot with a portal gun. Gordon is a person with a role.
Actually, I wasn't playing as a tank just killing everything. I went for a high stealth skill, lockpicking and a few other things that I can't remember. But then I found out you are in combat for more than doing anything else, seeing as how quests are, for the most part, "go here and kill stuff" missions (At least they were for the couple of hours I was playing) and I was getting my ass royally handed to me at all times during combat, so I had to start putting all my points into small guns.MelasZepheos said:
I think I heard wind a few times, but I recall the sound of nothing occurring far more.MelasZepheos said:
I don't really get why you're talking about "earning your rewards" here, my analogy was about immersion, not getting something for nothing. I mean, yeah, I agree with you on what you're saying here, but that's not what I was talking about. I was referring to being inside box, not just having the things inside.MelasZepheos said:
No they're not, that's just one aspect of gaming. Realism is just a matter of preference, as gaming is not meant to do one thing ("help us live the lives we can't live in reality") over the other.Daaaah Whoosh said: