top 10 arguments I disagree with

[Atmos Duality]

Ok my definitiion of art...

Your point ceased to have meaning right there.
"...my definition of art...".
Because clearly, you alone have the authority to define what others may or may not consider art.

 

[Lukeje]

Ten years ago, the variety of PC games was at least tripe the size of what it is now. Given, a good portion of them were point/click adventure games, but it is substantially smaller. I believe that PC gaming is dying, but it's not damned to do so. A Vampyre Story was an excellent adventure game, and more like it should be made!

Is tripe a measurement now? How does it fit into the metric system. Sorry, had to call it it's not even like p and c are anywhere near each other on a keyboard.

I think the word was supposed to be `triple'. `Trice' isn't actually a word.

Thrice is a word through it is so nice you won't just want it once not twice but Thrice.

Yes, but I was assuming that one error was less likely than two.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Ten years ago, the variety of PC games was at least tripe the size of what it is now. Given, a good portion of them were point/click adventure games, but it is substantially smaller. I believe that PC gaming is dying, but it's not damned to do so. A Vampyre Story was an excellent adventure game, and more like it should be made!

Is tripe a measurement now? How does it fit into the metric system. Sorry, had to call it it's not even like p and c are anywhere near each other on a keyboard.

I think the word was supposed to be `triple'. `Trice' isn't actually a word.

Thrice is a word through it is so nice you won't just want it once not twice but Thrice.

Yes, but I was assuming that one error was less likely than two.

Well I more just pointing it out to try get in that line from Conan O'Brien but yes I see what you mean.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

I don't really get why you're talking about "earning your rewards" here, my analogy was about immersion, not getting something for nothing. I mean, yeah, I agree with you on what you're saying here, but that's not what I was talking about. I was referring to being inside box, not just having the things inside.

Sorry, that wasn't explained very well.

For me, immersion comes from how I adjust to thinking about the game, and whether or not the game then upholds my interpretation.

For eg. In Halo you are Master Chief, hero of humanity, super soldier, last hope etc. Therefore I expect to feel like a hero, like a super soldier, and like the last hope. For the hero part, wherever you go everyone treats it like it's the second coming, with the marines spouting lines like 'The Cavalry has arrived', 'Thank God it's you sir,' and so on. For the super soldier. You have a shield, you have access to badass weaponry, you can sprint around the battlefield racking up kills in the thousands, so I deem that supersoldiery. For the Last Hope part, it may be a bit cheap but every other human gets murdered pretty easily, leaving everything up to you, so that seems to define last hope. What I'm saying is that the characterisation of Master Chief fits exactly with how I viewed him, so I got immersed.

In Fallout 3, you've staggered out into the world, armed only with a pistol and your jumpsuit, having spent nineteen years believing you were utterly safe from all harm, and your dad's just gone missing. The world is harsh and cruel and it feels entirely like it would go on completely without you if you died. (until the end) So if you aren't dreading every encounter, hopelessly ineffective in a fight, and pretty much ignored or ridiculed except by the very nicest characters, then the characterisation isn't working right. What i was trying to say and hopefully will say better now is that it feels like the world is out to get you, and you have to fight tooth and nail for everything you get, and when you play, you find yoruself having to fight tooth and nail for everything you get. So for me, the characterisation worked perfectly, and thus I was completely immersed, once I'd gotten out of the Halo mindset of course.

Like I say, it's personal to how you play a game, rather than something you can just judge, at least in my opinion.

 

[gbemery]

Spoiler

9. First of all what did Fallout 3 do that was INCREDIBLE in your eyes? You need to give examples not just "ALOT" I honestly have to disagree I never played it through all the way because it keeps losing my interest. In my opinion there really isn't anything that stands out that another game didn't already do and better, but feel free to tell me what I am missing and maybe I'll try to sit through it.

8. I can't agree with this one either. I hate to be one of those people but I am on the fence. Both were amazing games. I didn't like the ungodly inventory of the first one but I didn't like the lack of one in ME2. I felt I had more customization in the first one as oppose to the second. While I felt my decisions in the second meant more. I liked the combat in the second but not the world layout. The first one felt more open and the second just felt more closed off and not as huge. I honestly liked the MAKO the only thing I didn't like was how damn craggy the freaking planets were. I really don't see where people had problems with it other than the terrain. It was way better then the planet scanning and that piece of crap hammerhead tank they gave us which felt more like a racing game. Then the side quests in both didn't really feel like there was a need for them and the first one's felt just alittle more rewarding to me. I think this argument mainly comes from two groups of people playing the same game. Like say RPG fans loved the first one while FPS/TPS fans didn't so much and that just switched for ME2. In the end you aren't ever going to hear the end of arguments like these as long as companies try to please everyone and get multiple genre fans for one game. There is always going to be something one group likes that the other doesn't and it just comes down to who can ***** the loudest and make the company change pace.



1. what? Im confused on this one.

because of this thing called opnion/induviduality I dont think anything i say could make you like fallout 3 if it didnt spark your interest enough, it happens (like with me and S.T.A.L.K.E.R.)

I put this here because I found people would focus ONLY on the treatment of the Brotherhood and simplifying things (in most cases) to a black and white karma systm

and yes (without broken steel) the main story falls apart at the end

but heres what I love about the game

1. atmosphere, some people says theres none, some people says theres alot, Im in the "omg atmohphere is awsome!" group

I mean the look and feel is fallout through and through, with the classic music and everything

the world really feels like its been brought to life more or less

2. the GOOD parts of the story, growing up in the vault the thing with your dad I felt was very well done and added extra emotional punch

and trainquility lane...that was cool (and the DLC depending on your personal preference I LOVED point lookout, yeah I have a thing for trippy seaquences)

3. exploration, unliek NV FO3 was really the kind of game you wander in a direction and see what you can find and theres alot..from the subtle to the not so subtle (Like a little rube-golderberg trap set up in a store..its like "oh! dominoes! *whack*"

role playing I loved fallotu 3 because I had a real emotional connection to everything my charachter was a charter, she had her own past and her own story

and for those who like to blow things up..yeah you can do that too

is the game perfect? hell no but its a favorite of mine

I would like to first start off and say I hope you didn't think I was attacking your opinion on anything I was just giving mine. After another read through my text does sound a little like it was trying to belittle your opinion but that's not what I was trying to do so I apologize if that's how it came across.

1. Hmm I might have jumped the gun on this part. Probably because the most I remember from Fallout 3 were the tunnels...oh god the tunnels. The main thing about Fallout 3 I didn't like was the constant subway tunnels. I did like the nuke torn environment though. I also did like the treks through the wastelands but thats about it.But after review I would have to say it does bring a nice atmosphere.

2. I didn't feel the opening part with your dad lasted long enough to pull you into it. It did add a nice way of doing your customization though from your birth to your skills...so yeah that much of it was good too.

I can't comment on the DLC because I never got any, so I have nothing to reference. But was trainquility lane the section where you

Spoiler

go to another vault and find them in the computer program?

If it was then I almost forgot about that part. That was rather interesting even if I did get a little turned off from it because it reminded me of the Fade in DA:O at first *shivers*

3. I liked the exploration to a certain extent. It always felt though like if I went out exploring I'd find a part of the game i wasn't suppose to come to yet and I would feel somewhat like the game resented me for it. Like when you uncover the plans for a surprise party a friend of family member was going to give you before it could happen. Then you say "oh but I love it and I'll still act surprised," but they still pout because they didn't get to surprise you the way they had planned it out. Thats how I felt when i found some parts of Fallout3 like I wasn't suppose to have been there yet without the proper story markers.

Maybe my disagreeing was a little premature...I would say that it was more of a meh game for me. It wasn't a "bad" game but it wasn't a good game for me. It seems from my perspective that it did somethings good but what it did bad brings them down and overall makes the game...meh.

4. you still didn't clarify what you meant by the argument "everything related to gameing is sad"? that one really did confuse me.

 

[TheBoulder]

Err, might want to work on that grammar a little more man.

But yeah, I agree with what your saying... I guess. Seriously, its kind of hard to read. Work on the grammar and ill get back to you.

I'm sorry, but I can't watch such a heinous act of hypocrisy and not say anything. I have bolded the offending words

OT: I agree with most of what you say except with everything dying.
Everything's dying. Everything.

 

[Riobux]

There's only two arguments which are gaming related that drive me to tell the person to just shut up: Arguments about games causing violence, and arguments involving gaming fan-boys. They both involve people who wouldn't change their opinion, even if facts were laid out in front of them, and they both involve people who have an "all or nothing" philosophy, in other words they refuse to meet a middle ground and will ram their argument into your face until you agree with them, even if they are completely wrong. Which, 99% of the time, they are.

 

[MattyDienhoff]

But ignoring all that for a moment. Let's talk about the atmosphere. Or rather, the lack of such. Yes, I'm serious. Fallout 3 has absolutely no atmosphere and that is entirely due to that lack of audio. There's no music, but I could forgive that, they could pull off a wasteland tone without music. But at least add in some environmental sounds! I'd settle for some wind blowing through the jagged rocks!

Okay, what the hell? Are we talking about the same game? Fallout 3 has ambient music and environmental sounds, such as wind blowing. No music? What do you call this?


Either your game was severely broken in such a way that the sound didn't work, or you're very confused.

 

[Atmos Duality]

heres the point^ you missed it by........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ this much

an opinion can only belong to the person who owns it.

i gave it, luthir asked for an arguement explaining how i came to such an opinion, so i gave 1.
at no point did i say i had to be right and at no point did i say everyone should have the same opinions as me.

Uh huh, lets back this shit up a bit.

Games should NOTx1ooooooooooooooo be considered art by any one.

Your exact words.
Note the bolded part. Note that it's not an opinion; it's a statement.

Care to refine your statement, or are you going to continue to hide behind subjective reasoning that wasn't there to begin with?

 

[Atmos Duality]

you @%&%@(*^)(* IN MY OPINION art should not be considered art by any one
IN MY OPINION get it.

I'll take that as a refined statement.

you dont need to write the words down for their meaning to be there

Words, especially in a text-only format, *only* have meaning if you use them.
Unfortunately, I can only correctly interpret what you say; not what you think you imply.

,well at least the rest of us dont, you do seem like the arrogent type who would expect every one to share you veiws.

This is relevant how?

 

[Vault101]

Spoiler

9. First of all what did Fallout 3 do that was INCREDIBLE in your eyes? You need to give examples not just "ALOT" I honestly have to disagree I never played it through all the way because it keeps losing my interest. In my opinion there really isn't anything that stands out that another game didn't already do and better, but feel free to tell me what I am missing and maybe I'll try to sit through it.

8. I can't agree with this one either. I hate to be one of those people but I am on the fence. Both were amazing games. I didn't like the ungodly inventory of the first one but I didn't like the lack of one in ME2. I felt I had more customization in the first one as oppose to the second. While I felt my decisions in the second meant more. I liked the combat in the second but not the world layout. The first one felt more open and the second just felt more closed off and not as huge. I honestly liked the MAKO the only thing I didn't like was how damn craggy the freaking planets were. I really don't see where people had problems with it other than the terrain. It was way better then the planet scanning and that piece of crap hammerhead tank they gave us which felt more like a racing game. Then the side quests in both didn't really feel like there was a need for them and the first one's felt just alittle more rewarding to me. I think this argument mainly comes from two groups of people playing the same game. Like say RPG fans loved the first one while FPS/TPS fans didn't so much and that just switched for ME2. In the end you aren't ever going to hear the end of arguments like these as long as companies try to please everyone and get multiple genre fans for one game. There is always going to be something one group likes that the other doesn't and it just comes down to who can ***** the loudest and make the company change pace.



1. what? Im confused on this one.

because of this thing called opnion/induviduality I dont think anything i say could make you like fallout 3 if it didnt spark your interest enough, it happens (like with me and S.T.A.L.K.E.R.)

I put this here because I found people would focus ONLY on the treatment of the Brotherhood and simplifying things (in most cases) to a black and white karma systm

and yes (without broken steel) the main story falls apart at the end

but heres what I love about the game

1. atmosphere, some people says theres none, some people says theres alot, Im in the "omg atmohphere is awsome!" group

I mean the look and feel is fallout through and through, with the classic music and everything

the world really feels like its been brought to life more or less

2. the GOOD parts of the story, growing up in the vault the thing with your dad I felt was very well done and added extra emotional punch

and trainquility lane...that was cool (and the DLC depending on your personal preference I LOVED point lookout, yeah I have a thing for trippy seaquences)

3. exploration, unliek NV FO3 was really the kind of game you wander in a direction and see what you can find and theres alot..from the subtle to the not so subtle (Like a little rube-golderberg trap set up in a store..its like "oh! dominoes! *whack*"

role playing I loved fallotu 3 because I had a real emotional connection to everything my charachter was a charter, she had her own past and her own story

and for those who like to blow things up..yeah you can do that too

is the game perfect? hell no but its a favorite of mine

I would like to first start off and say I hope you didn't think I was attacking your opinion on anything I was just giving mine. After another read through my text does sound a little like it was trying to belittle your opinion but that's not what I was trying to do so I apologize if that's how it came across.

1. Hmm I might have jumped the gun on this part. Probably because the most I remember from Fallout 3 were the tunnels...oh god the tunnels. The main thing about Fallout 3 I didn't like was the constant subway tunnels. I did like the nuke torn environment though. I also did like the treks through the wastelands but thats about it.But after review I would have to say it does bring a nice atmosphere.

2. I didn't feel the opening part with your dad lasted long enough to pull you into it. It did add a nice way of doing your customization though from your birth to your skills...so yeah that much of it was good too.

I can't comment on the DLC because I never got any, so I have nothing to reference. But was trainquility lane the section where you

Spoiler

go to another vault and find them in the computer program?

If it was then I almost forgot about that part. That was rather interesting even if I did get a little turned off from it because it reminded me of the Fade in DA:O at first *shivers*

3. I liked the exploration to a certain extent. It always felt though like if I went out exploring I'd find a part of the game i wasn't suppose to come to yet and I would feel somewhat like the game resented me for it. Like when you uncover the plans for a surprise party a friend of family member was going to give you before it could happen. Then you say "oh but I love it and I'll still act surprised," but they still pout because they didn't get to surprise you the way they had planned it out. Thats how I felt when i found some parts of Fallout3 like I wasn't suppose to have been there yet without the proper story markers.

Maybe my disagreeing was a little premature...I would say that it was more of a meh game for me. It wasn't a "bad" game but it wasn't a good game for me. It seems from my perspective that it did somethings good but what it did bad brings them down and overall makes the game...meh.

4. you still didn't clarify what you meant by the argument "everything related to gameing is sad"? that one really did confuse me.

Oh sweet jesus the fade...thanks for digging that memory up :/

I liked trianqulitly lane because...it was just soo cool

anyway I spent so much time esplaining my reasons for liking fallout I forgot to mention point 1.

its really only somthing "cool" people say about stuff, I image no one here would have such an attitude

you know when others judge other peoples interests and are like "OMG thats like, soo sad" thant kinda thing

obviously in gaming not as common now (unless we are talking abnout somone who puts their entire existance into a game, MMO or otherwise...philisophical question, if they are truly happy who are we to say otherwise?)

 

[gbemery]

Oh sweet jesus the fade...thanks for digging that memory up :/

I liked trianqulitly lane because...it was just soo cool

anyway I spent so much time esplaining my reasons for liking fallout I forgot to mention point 1.

its really only somthing "cool" people say about stuff, I image no one here would have such an attitude

you know when others judge other peoples interests and are like "OMG thats like, soo sad" thant kinda thing

obviously in gaming not as common now (unless we are talking abnout somone who puts their entire existance into a game, MMO or otherwise...philisophical question, if they are truly happy who are we to say otherwise?)

Oh don't mention it I don't think anyone should ever forget a gem like the fade...if not just to remember what not to put in a game. It was alright except how long they made you stay in it and jump all over it.

lol my friend has a saying about DA:O everytime I try to get him to play it again. He always says "Fun til the fade."

Ah now number one makes sense. Yeah its kinda like "Really thats all he/she does is sit in front of the computer/console all day?...how sad."

 

[Vault101]

10. Agree with this, even if I don't really PC game.

9. I freaking love Fallout 3. Okay I never played Fallout 1+2 but I don't get what was wrong with Fallout 3 besides it not being Fallout 1+2. Maybe all I heard was the fanboys.

8
4. I do like me some sequels. I even like reboots, assuming they do things well. It's that weird situation of idolising the original I find odd. Tomb Raider 1 has not stood the test of time in any way, and although yes there were some quirks in Anniversary it was a much better game that actually bothered to have a story. In other words, it was a much better game. And I'm the biggest TR fanboy you could find.
.

interesting point about ME

anyway in regards to fallout 1 (and what ive heard about 2) I can apreciate them for what they are and how cool the setting and story is

however turn based combat makes me want to stab myslef in the eye with a stileto and they are quite complex, in other words imprenatrable to a current gen gamer

fallout 3 is very different aside form story and atmosphere..so even a comparison between fallout 1 and 2 is somthing of a strech

but it took the fallout world and brought it to the current gen, which I think is a good thing

never played tomb raider..I am however VERY interested in the reboot

 

[ecoho]

1: "Piracy is Theft." This is bullshit. Theft involves taking something illegally. Piracy involves copying something illegally. Get it straight already.

2: "Fallout 3 isn't a true fallout game!" Yes, it is. It's fully canon, and dammit it rescued the series from obscurity. Be thankful it was released and that it was a smash hit, because if it wasn't for Fallout 3, failings and all, the series would just be a road sign on Memory Lane. Besides, I've played Fallout 1 and 2, the turn-based combat system is so boring it puts me to sleep even when I use hax...literally.

3: "If you don't like Crysis your rig sucks!" ...Elitist bullshit, do I even need to elaborate? Yes? Fine then. The only reason this game is so well received is that it's a tech demo in the guise of a game, useful for e-peen whores to justify four thousand bucks worth of credit card debt. Judging it on it's merits as a game it's average at best. It's better than Call of Battlefield: Source, but I'm not going to trade in Portal to get a copy anytime soon.

4: "Piracy is killing PC gaming!!!" ...So why was New Vegas on TPB for xbox 360 a week before release, yet didn't show up for PC until a week or two after? Explain that one. Also, kindly explain how Valve manages to make fistfuls of money catering to PC players.

5: "You just don't like game X because you suck at it!" See Crysis, but replace credit card debt with lack of a life outside of gaming.

6: "Game Z doesn't have lean, I'm boycotting!" ...So? You never use it anyways. I've watched plenty of COD4 matches on youtube and never once have I ever seen someone using lean.

7: "Looooool SP sucks." Play something other than Call of Duty then. If your only experience of SP is the half-baked shit stuck to the side of competitive shooters you're not going to think very highly of it, so grab a game that focuses on it's SP and is generally accepted to be good. Like Half Life 2, or Portal, or Fallout 3, or Bioshock. There's plenty of viable games, and you may just find it's good when handled by developers that aren't howler monkeys.

8: "Shooter G sucks!" "No, Shooter T sucks!" Honestly guys, I can't tell the difference. Sure one looks a bit different, but when you boil it down to the gameplay, they're completely identical. So stop your bickering, buy both, and have some fun already.

9: "Gaming PCs are expensive!!!" Bullshit. I paid no more to build mine than I would have on an xBox 360. You just have to know where to look and not shun used parts.

10: "A proper gaming PC costs more than a used car!" Again, bullshit, and again, I point at mine. It can play any game yours can, it costs no more than the average price of a console, and it's a PC.

11: "You don't like competitive multiplayer? CONSOLE SCRUB LOSER! GO PLAY BEJEWELED!" Oi. Just Oi.

12: "Console controls are better in every way!" Negative. I'll grant you platformers and driving/flying games, but you have to concede that shooters suck big hairy donkey testicles when they have to use a joystick to aim, and then we have the RTS, a game genre which single-handedly created the market for mice with half a keyboard attached to them. There's a reason console FPSs have auto-aim and huge hitboxes, and it isn't the userbase. Speaking of which...

13: "Consoles are dumbing down PC games!" Negative. What's dumbing down PC games is PC gamers constantly buying the same boring, tedious, repetitive shooters. Balk at those games, refuse to buy them, only buy the games that aren't dumbed down, and you'll notice a change in games.

14: "Fallout 3 isn't an RPG!" Bullshit. You've got perks, character stats, choices to make, you can be a ponce or a savior, weapons get better as your stats change, you don't even have to use combat a lot of the time, and you can make your Lone Wanderer look like whatever the fuck you want them to. It's an RPG. But if you want to get absolutely pedantic, every game with a protagonist is an RPG, as you're in a game playing the role of Douchebag McGee. 'Course, you and I both know it's not that literal, but my point stands just the same.

15: "Don't play your music over the game, it ruins the atmosphere!" Uhh...what? I find the atmosphere is improved when I have music I like in the background.

16: "That game sucks, it's graphics are sooooo 2007." Right, and that's why it's Game of the Year....

9. Fallout 3 was a bad game, lets just put certain plot points ASIDE for a moment, I think some people really forget what the game did incredibly well (and that was alot of things)

I agree with (I think) everything you just said other than this.

I think that Fallout 3 was a bad game. But why that is has nothing to do with any plot point stuff. I probably can't anyway seeing as how I stopped playing it a couple hours in.

I just thought that stats were terribly balanced, almost to the point where putting points into anything but small guns was a waste, combat itself was rather dull and that the inventory system could use something of a revamp IMO.

But ignoring all that for a moment. Let's talk about the atmosphere. Or rather, the lack of such. Yes, I'm serious. Fallout 3 has absolutely no atmosphere and that is entirely due to that lack of audio. There's no music, but I could forgive that, they could pull off a wasteland tone without music. But at least add in some environmental sounds! I'd settle for some wind blowing through the jagged rocks!
Don't try saying the radio stations add some atmosphere. They don't. Because any immersion you get from the radio at first is immediately shot when you realise that the radio just has a few minute track that loops over and over again.

That's why I think it's a bad game: Lack of atmosphere and immersion.

I don't care about how good the rest of the game is. I couldn't get into it.
The way I see it is that every game is a box full of goodies, which you have to find a way into. Some games, like IMO Metroid Prime, allow you to jut hop right in a play with the goodies. Fallout 3 on the other hand is a box made of solid steel with no way in.

I feel the exact opposite. I find myself far more immersed in 3, and New Vegas for that matter, than I do most other games. The only time that immersion breaks is when I encounter some sort of dumb bug.


though I do agree about the radio station. But that's why I downloaded a mod that put 100 tracks in...and let me select the music. There's just something epic to have Wherever I May Roam blaring while you pick through ruins in the ass end of nowhere...

how did i know someone like you would be here......please you are entittled to your opinon but please try to be a lttle less flamey with it......

 

[Megadonphan]

1. anything related to gaming is "sad"

it isnt sad if youre having fun

too true, infact, it isn't sad at all, mainly because you would only ever play a game to have fun
I absolutely hate people who say that it's sad because of this.

 

[Vault101]

Games should NOTx1ooooooooooooooo be considered art by any one.
im not saying people who make games arent artists but that dosent make them art.

if da vinci made a sandwitch it wouldent be art. it would be a sandwitch.
same goes for developers

youre assuming that NO ONE has had a "deep" or fullfilling experience from a game

if film is art games are art

youre also sayign NO ONE should have a different opnion than you

is it art on the level of da vinchi? no but its still art

are we quite "there"? no again but we'll get there

 

[Kurokami]

1: "Piracy is Theft." This is bullshit. Theft involves taking something illegally. Piracy involves copying something illegally. Get it straight already.

You must be a barber.

 

[BirdBornAsBee]

So you agree that Zelda is terrible right? Good, I agree too.