Torrents, Why?!?

Quiet Stranger

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Devil919 said:
First off i would like to say that i hate torrents, they are immoral and illegal. But more and more people use them, but why? So many of my friends use them and it just f**ks me off big time; espically when they try and get me to use them as well. Why can't you just go out and buy the damn thing with money, it helps the artist/develper ect contine what they do so why deprive them of the income that they deserve?

So fellow escapists, do you use torrents? if so why do you use them?
Well, and I know it's "wrong" to admit this but I use torrents myself, say for example, music. If I can't find something at a local store or something's just too damn old to find any wheres (big band music) I'll download it, I also do it for movies but those are also pretty old, don't get me wrong, I'll buy the things I download when I find a hard copy cause I'd much prefer a hard copy to a thing on my computer. Like me, some people torrent things for the reasons I have just said and also because they want to test it before they buy it. I torrented Mince craft just to see what the hub bub is about and now I'm DEFINITELY gonna go buy it....or buy a pre paid credit card and then buy it.

They're especially useful when you want to watch a brand new show but it doesn't air in your country or on the channels you currently have, like say the show Louie or Archer, I don't have the FX channel (wish I did) so I downloaded the first seasons of both shows, I later bought the first season of Archer and when they decide to release Louie onto DVD, I will buy that too.

There are up sides and down sides to torrents really, it's not all bad.
 

Thaluikhain

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Blaster395 said:
NeutralDrow said:
Devil919 said:
Why can't you just go out and buy the damn thing with money, it helps the artist/develper ect contine what they do so why deprive them of the income that they deserve?
Because where the hell am I going to get a copy of an 11 year-old game that's been out-of-print for over half that time, was never released outside Japan, and is only available in the form of one used copy costing over $300?
Thats called abandonware.
And still piracy, unless the copyright holders make it public domain.

OT: Torrents are evil. My parents were eaten by Torrents.

Torrents usually are much faster than most ways of downloading stuff. More importantly, though, you can set the thing to download and leave it alone, instead of downloading something in 17 parts, one after the other.
 

Jonluw

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May 23, 2010
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gunsTorrents don't kill peoplepirate things. People do.

It's apparently a very handy method for transferring files, and I can very much see Neutraldrow's argument that some files are just impossible to get a hold of through any other means.
 

Sneeze

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The argument for old games can also be used for older TV shows, plenty of American shows out there I would GLADLY pay for if they released them on in PAL format on DVD so I could watch them that way but that often isn't the case.

Also, have you ever watched a program or listened to a song on youtube? How is that any less immoral?
 

Mechsoap

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I have a torrent installed, but i only used it in the period garrysmod.org got the idea that using torrents to share their files, was a great idea. It wasn't.
 

Lyx

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World to the ignorant: Torrents are a technology for filetransfer - they are neither a server, nor a client, nor that which is transfered. Torrents are actually the most popular method for legal p2p filetransfer. Some large legal sites use them as an alternative to download-mirrors, and some browsers like i.e. opera even have builtin torrent-support.

Are they also popular for illegal transfer or content? Yes, but making a thread about torrents, equaling them with copyright infringement, making a bad-to-nonexistant argument against copyright infringement - instead of just making a topic about copyright infringement... is ignorant at best, and stupid at worst.

And by the way: Even if you'd make a topic about copyright infringement, unbiased discussion would not be possible, because the forum rules strongly limit how people may express their views regarding copyright infringement.

Or in short: Topic-fail.
 

Celtic_Kerr

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Onyx Oblivion said:
If it was actually used for the legal practices that many pirates use in "defense" of torrent sites, I'd have no issues with them. Sadly, they are not. And are just hot-beds for piracy.
It would be great to have them used simply to transfer information. Think we'll ever reach that point?

And dear god Onyx, Hypno toad is worse than ever... He's insta-seizure tastic
 

tahrey

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Sep 18, 2009
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Well, let's play devil's defence lawyer here.

1. It's just a tool, what you choose to download with it is your business.

2. There are actually proper software distributions etc that use torrents as a way to get new versions out without killing their server bandwidth allowance. Seen linux distros do it for example. People who have made their own low budget movies as well, or small time music labels doing promotion. For a start, I've downloaded a good few creative commons albums LEGITIMATELY - Tryad, Rhyme Torrents (the clue's in the name) and their associates, etc.

Some of them have actually opened me up to artists I would never have heard of before - which is an argument I've long held with music downloading way before above-board services like iTunes etc came along and actually paid attention to that point. (They also set their prices at ludicrously high levels, but at least they listened in SOME way) ... In fact, if someone can tell me if Milk Plus HAS actually properly released his album yet, and where I can get hold of it, I'd be grateful, because it was supposed to be out around October, but I've still only got my torrented copy and no idea where to put in my order.

3. Slightly more grey area but I believe still under fair use: I work somewhere with an educational record-tv-shows-off-the-air license which we make great use of. However, some of our stuff was recorded back in the day when the guy doing it was taking analogue broadcasts onto VHS, and has since transferred that recording to DVD. In particular of late, one very popular, but specialist documentary about the actual work that goes into making movies, which was even recorded off the late night "accessible" broadcasts, with a hardcoded overlaid signer. In short, it looks like ass, and the DVD it's on is scratched to shit, notwithstanding it's a complete pain to convert DVDs to a format that can be held on a central media server on campus.
Also this programme is repeated like, never (maybe once a year or less, hidden very deep in the schedules), even on its current host channel which specialises in docs and meta-media stuff, so getting it in a hurry - which I needed to - either by making a fresh digital-broadcast-to-DVDR or downloaded from said broadcast company's own online service (anything over 7 days old = gone) was not an option. The copyright owners, for reasons best known to themselves, have chosen not to make a DVD for the region I'm in, or even release the other-region copy on my market for those who can hack their players to be region-free (god only knows why, they'd make LOADS from sales to students and college libraries for a simple act of doing standards conversion and pressing a few discs with a different label).

I go home, hop on somewhere like ISOhunt, throw the .torrent link into my copy of mutorrent, let it run overnight, by the time I'm halfway done sleeping I have a pristine, already properly de-interlaced etc DivX rip of the DVD sat on my hard disk, ready to drop on a USB stick and take to work. It's pretty much what I would have had to do to it anyway to make it more compatible here (couple hours work to get it "right", even if we HAD a copy of it and could sacrifice a DVD drive to get locked into the wrong region), and as legal as getting it off air with our normal arrangement... just without having to wait around for 18 months for a repeat, then remembering to set up the recorder for three o'clock in the friggin morning and trusting that the thing will do what it should/the schedules haven't changed.

Similarly I have some old CDs that I previously ripped to MP3 ... the hard disk said MP3s was on got stolen, my optical backups turned out to be on rather poor media, and the secondary disk I had previously backed THOSE up onto got damaged (yeah ... I know ... I'm now acting SUPER paranoid about my data these days). Plus those CDs have since suffered rather bad disc-rot, and even if I was prepared to pay more of my own money again to the manufacturer to deal with a penny-pinching mistake THEY made, some of them are rather rare and hard to physically get hold of (either limited run, or have since been superceded by horrendously amplitude over-compressed "remastered" versions with none of the originals available anywhere, etc). I already own the damn thing, so, off to the torrents to find sources which contain my missing tracks to patch into my own "remaster" - a copy of said mp3 collection with someone else's rip of the physical, legit disc patched into the hole in my rip of the physical, legit disc. And if said mp3s are good enough quality, maybe even replace my older, lower fidelity ones outright... if they're really good, use them to make a "working copy" of the ruined original, to play on the non-mp3-compatible kitchen boombox or whatever.

(the people I download from here being the equivalent of a friend with similar tastes from whom I may have taped or even duplicated a working copy of the CD(/LP?) from in times past ... and those who leech from me during this, or in the time after whilst I let the ratio crest beyond 1.00 so I'm not being an asshole, being friends who may have taped/duped FROM me; given the nature of the video, in fact, I let that hit about 5~6-to-1 because, although the service is anonymous both in terms of name (beyond an IP) or intent (beyond "getting that data") I bet many of them will be people in the same boat. It's not something you'd download and watch with popcorn and a load of friends, let's say, and if you were too broke to buy you'd at least reasonably expect your college library to have a copy you could either borrow on a short-term loan, or watch in the viewing room...)

4. Besides such arguably fair use stuff, the whole issue of where the line is drawn on piracy is a controvertial and hotly debated one. As these forums officially disallow any outright advocacy of piracy, all I'll say on that is... it's not universally agreed that those making the rules here are doing so correctly, or with anyone's best interests at heart besides either their own, or those who have them effectively in their pocket. I'm remaining utterly neutral for the purposes of this post; but as noted above, I've found plenty of legit or arguably legit reasons to use torrents, so I wouldn't want to be broad-brush painted as a heartless thief of intellectual property just because I use the same tools, just as a slim jim can be used by a breakdown service to get you into your car if you leave the keys inside, so it'd be nonsensical to arrest someone simply for owning one. Only if you catch them directly in the act of stealing someone's car with it should you take action. (And in this case, you have to imagine that when they use said slim-jim, a second copy of that car appears, and the original owner loses nothing - the manufacturer does, but what then if the thief argues that they lack the funds to have bought it anyway, and what meagre cash they have is actually spent legitimately?)

OK, that's the half hour I was having to wait for someone to finish in a lecture room filled up... laters.
 

New Troll

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I use torrents all the time for many different purposes. I do not support piracy.

Main uses: on-line purchases, television, transfering data among friends, distributing information to coworkers, program patches, etc.
 

mew4ever23

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Devil919 said:
First off i would like to say that i hate torrents, they are immoral and illegal.
You seem to think that "Piracy" is synonymous with "Torrenting". This could not be farther from the truth. The BitTorrent protocol (what drives torrents) is used to move files around, and it's use is not illegal. The content of said files is another story. The reason a lot of people, particularly those in law enforcement, have a problem with torrent sites and torrenting, is that most people use them as a vehicle for piracy. What we have here is a tool who's name is being tarnished by people using it for illegal purposes. Get your facts straight next time.

I have and do use torrents for legal purposes. Example: downloading a very large file that I need for school. Here's one I found via the wiki article on the subject - Blizzard patches WoW and Starcraft 2 via torrenting [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent_%28protocol%29#Software].
 

Dr_Cuddles

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Sep 20, 2010
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A few things.

A. If you get a virus from a torrent, you are an idiot. I have owned this computer for over 6 years, and I don't even have any type of anti-virus software, because I don't need one, and I download things online constantly (Legally, of course) Even if I were to torrent something illegal, all it takes is a quick look at the comments section, and number of S/L's. A torrent is NOT going to have lots of either if the file contains a virus, people will comment on it saying such.

B. I have a friend who does torrent movies and games, a lot. The only reason he does this is because there are SO many terrible movies and games that come out, and its not always easy to know if your paying that 60$ to buy a crap game, or 14$ to watch a bad movie, so he torrents them to see if he enjoys them, then he goes out and buys a copy. He has one of the largest DVD/Gaming collections of anyone I know, but he also torrents the most.

It also applies to when me and my friends wanted to play D2 again. We all had bought battlechests years back, but we could only find our CD keys, and a maybe 1 disk. Torrents allowed us to re-download them, and then apply our legal keys to them, rather then needing to buy the set all over again.
 

Valkyrie101

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May 17, 2010
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I think people are getting too hung up on the use of the word torrent. The OP probably confused it with piracy in general, but we don't need pages and pages of replies telling him what his mistake was; the first one or two did that just fine. The topic was (I assume) intended to be a discussion of online piracy, or downloading copyrighted material illegally regardless of the method used.
 

KiKiweaky

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Aug 29, 2008
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Haha the pirate hate is really cute I must say. I dont bother downloading games, but films.... I'm not gona lie I have lots of them.

They are used for transferring data, just depends what data is in them.
 

Xojins

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Jan 7, 2008
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There's nothing wrong with torrents.

People pirate music because they would rather spend their $500 on, say... their car, house, family, etc. than on 500 songs that won't even fill up their iPod (or Zune for those who like bad mp3 players).