"Touch-screen gadgets alienate blind"
- Thread starter JWAN
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I was always of the opinion that the Iphone should have been a slide out phone. I also think that if normal people were really smart they would have incorporated braille or a braille like system into all keypads by now since relying on guessing what keys you are pressing based on finger placement is just stupid when you already have a system that more directly engages our sense of touch, not to mention the power saving for battery operated systems since you will not need a backlight for the keyboard.RAKtheUndead said:
The thing people need to keep in mind when saying that the whole touchscreen thing will not take over is that touch based interfaces solve an assload of problems for people who actually can see. With touchscreens people can actually have different layouts for their keyboards without having to physically change the damned keys around. It makes having a keyboard in a specific layout other than the traditional defaults so much easier to achieve. Right now the technology is a bit too expensive to see widespread adoption but it will eventually come down in price. Right now for about a thousand dollars you can purchase an OLED keyboard. Furthermore with a full touchscreen there are fewer moving parts which makes things somewhat easier from a mechanical standpoint. The touchscreen is very seductive and not simply because Apple started using it.
]shadow skill said:
Oh god...that sounds horrible! I mean, in reference to touchscreens, I honestly can't see how they can replace standard keyboards for both the casual and frequent home computer user. Then again, I've not tried one of these 'OLED' keyboards, but, what happens to the tactile feel of it? Seems...bizarre.
Well it's not so much that a true touchscreen will replace keyboards as we know them, it's just that software based keyboards like the kind you find on an Iphone grant people the possibility of using different keyboard layouts without having to change a physical keyboard. In my own opinion "tactile feedback" is overrated for the most part especially when you consider the fact that you simply cannot tell exactly which key you are pressing on most keyboards without looking unless you rely on finger placement which still leaves out all the other non text entry command keys. I know when I touch a key on a keyboard and really cannot understand why people need to hammer a key in order to know they pressed it. I love my laptop keyboard as it responds to a very gentle touch and is not loud at all.GothmogII said:
I could not stand it in my programming classes when all the keyboards were going all at once, if I had the money and could find someone to do it, I would build a sealed keyboard with quiet keys and incorporate braille to aid in touch typing.
I'm curious, is it not possible to have a phone that accepts voice commands, akin to the ones in a car phone. Further more, it is true that some things are built with a specific audience in mind. I'm guessing that an iPhone has the audience of people with hands and can see. It's like mute people complaining that music isn't made with them in mind.
Also I agree with other people, use a regular phone if the iPhone doesn't suit your needs!
Also I agree with other people, use a regular phone if the iPhone doesn't suit your needs!
I'm of the opinion that, while being blind is very unfortunate, some items (like the iPhone) are just really not that accessible to the blind. It doesn't mean we should stop using them or storm Steve Jobs to make one for them.
... But we should storm him to make an iSight. Then the whole problem would go away!
Seriously, what if Apple did something useful?
... But we should storm him to make an iSight. Then the whole problem would go away!
Seriously, what if Apple did something useful?
You know most PDA type phones that are being made now have touchscreens. Believe it or not most of the functionality of smartphones does not require a touchscreen it just lets them be a bit smaller since you do not necessarily need to worry about fitting a keypad on the handset. If you actually read the article in question you would see that they are talking about touchscreen technology in general. It is increasingly true that a "regular phone" is in fact a phone with a touchscreen.notyouraveragejoe said:
Old school eh...RAKtheUndead said:
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To use your own analogy, blind people wouldn't have phones all together.nilcypher said:
To use my analogy, blind people have phones, but they have them customized and designed to fit their needs, rather than the needs of the majority of the populace.
Not according to the dictionary. http://dictionary.reference.com/dic?q=blindshadow skill said:
You could be visually impaired. Which is what I consider someone who could see but their vision is bad enough to impair their living any more than buying glasses. And no I am not politically correct, I don't give a flying fuck who I offend.
Wow guys, your compassion is touching.
A few blind people voice their concerns, and everyone jumps on them, and says they should stfu. It's not like they're saying that they demand that any feature they can't use be eliminated, they're afraid that with the new advancements in tech that can only be utilized by people with vision, they're going to end up SOL.
A few blind people voice their concerns, and everyone jumps on them, and says they should stfu. It's not like they're saying that they demand that any feature they can't use be eliminated, they're afraid that with the new advancements in tech that can only be utilized by people with vision, they're going to end up SOL.
And yet you fail because there are people who cannot see certain colours, cannot make out details etc. Incidentally the seventh definition is hard to see or understand...Notice how that does not say impossible to see or understand. It implies impairment...........ZZZZZZZZZZZZZOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMGGGGGGGG!! Also it would be best to look at a medical dictionary since we really are talking about a medical condition.mike1921 said:
look, if your blind you don't need a touch screen, just get a regular phone. No one NEEDS a touch screen anyway its just a fad and it will pass like crocs (blind people can wear them and have the added benefit of not seeing how ugly they are). Don't force a company to turn a touch screen object into a brale object when you know damn well that you can get a brale object that does all the same things. By the way, looking at map directions is difficult when you are blind, so is watching movies. In other words the only two gimmicky things the I phone has are totally useless to a blind person anyway.
Because directions can't be spoken.....You would have caught that they have software to speak directions for GPS devices if you read the article.JWAN said:
It's also important to recognize that smartphones are in fact "regular" phones. The funny thing is that you are so upset that they ask people making touchscreen based devices to not forget that they exist. You can't even read the article and understand this yet you have the nerve to be angry at them for existing in the first place.
Its good that you ask politelyGunnerGraye said:A justified point. I'm not saying specifically iPhones, but that was the first thing to come to mind. I don't assume people need help, I ask politely, and I'm not using being nice to people as a way to make my beliefs any better. I always do my best to be a kind and polite person. I mentioned that, as pointless as it was, but rather to show that I'm not someone who would go, "look at that handicapped guy! Let's take his wheelchair!", and think that it was hysterical. I don't know how hard it is to make talking technology, but my guess is that people don't stay on 1 thing long enough to make sure it's very accessible to everyone. People make things, they move on to the next thing. Sometimes modifications are made to such inventions so that they are more easily used. Most of the time though, they are not because consumers have a desire to get their hands on something they like better than the last thing. I support your argument that there should be more handi-assessable technologies and such. And my mother had broken her neck and had hurt her right arm in a way that doctors said she would never recover, but she has, but not afte a very long time of rehabilitation. So yes, I do myself, know what people with disabilities go through (to some extent.) I also thank you for making good points and being mature about your side of the discussion.
I've had people rush to help me (and so has my mother) when they think I need help instead of asking first. It's really embarassing and makes me feel useless and weak.Actually people have weird ideas about the handicapped and still seem to be fascinated by them. My mother is stared at often becaus of how she walks. Her left leg is shorter then her right (she has ceberal palsy and had to undergo many surgries as a child to straighten that leg - doctors didn't think she would ever walk but like your mother she proved them wrong). Because I'm young I have people that stop and stare at me if I choose to park in a handicapped space. I have a placard, in fact I'm getting the disabled vet license plates. But still people stop and stare, waiting for me to get out to see if I'm really handicapped or just taking the space because it's close.
The truth is that handicapped people are looked down upon still. I'm sure you got to experince that with your mother. Even more fustrating is that people believe that if you have a physical handicap you must be mentally slow. I can't tell you how many times I've been insulted because a sales person seemed to think I had brain damage because I walked with a forearm crutch. And even if I did have brain damage you still don't treat people that way.
It is these attitudes that hinder accessible techology. If a $15 watch can talk to you then it can't be that hard to make appliances tell you how hot the oven is or how long you wanted to heat up your pizza.
The attitudes and posts on this thread, including the OP, showcase this beautifully. People honestly have no f-ing clue as to what handicapped people go through or that they should be entitled to use the same technology as everyone else. There was even a post that said screw the blind - which was supposedly a joke but not a very good one. Most of these people aren't even aware that the blind can surf forums and find out what's being said without another person sitting next to them; reading the posts outloud.
These attitudes have to change before we get anywhere. The handicapped have to be treated as equals and be seen as important and vaulable. There have been many handicapped people throughout history that have done incredible things despite their physical limitations. But now we have the blind unable to operate a cell phone without someone walking them through it first.
And to the OP: Your ignorance is appalling. Please go out and educate yourself before you start threads filled with hate and misinformation. You don't even seem to understand what the article was about but you linked it anyways. The blind weren't complaining they were pointing out how unfriendly technology is. There are hundreds of thousands of people that are legally blind - meaning that they can see only light and shadows. They need technology that can work for them and with a few simple and cheap alterations it could be done.
Wow, you really have no idea what's going on do you? Who the hell is talking about sueing a company in order to get things made for them?Bright_Raven said:
The people in the article are talking about their fears of how technology is evolving and leaving them behind. Maybe if you stopped watching porn you could learn to read and figure out what's going on.
They aren't asking Apple or anyone else to stop making touch screens. They're afraid that a lot of technolgoy is going the way of touch screens and that they will not be able to use anything. They aren't asking the company or you personally to adapt to their ways - instead they would simply like a little help with these products. Perhaps a mod that talks to them or extra buttons to help them navigate better.Bright_Raven said:
Just because you think everything ends up in lawsuits doesn't mean it wil. And you are overly hostile about this issue - as though these blind people are personally offending you.
You really missed the point, like a lot of people. Asking for help to be able to use the evolving technology is not asking the world to stop for them. The disabled make up a good chunk of our society and we need to make allowances when we can so that they aren't left behind. Personally I think the world should stop for the impoverished, diseased and starving. They should not exist with all the technology that we have today and we should be taking a more active role.brtshstel said:
You say you sympathize with the disabled. I don't consider life harder, neither does my mother, it's just different and has a different set of challenges. It also makes you a stronger person. You have no idea.
How are we hindering ourselves by making technology more accessible? Honestly, this constant response on this thread is puzzling. No one said that touch screens needed to be banned. In fact the blind support the evolving technology. They just want to be able to use it - and with a few simple changes they could start.s0denone said:
And this whole specality store thing - there are no speciality stores for the disabled! Good God that has to be the stupidest thing that I have ever heard of. Buying clothes if you happen to be an odd shape is a far cry from a store selling blind friendly items. And in fact, those clothing stores did not exist a few decades ago - people had to speak up and ask for them. Kind of like what the blind are doing now - asking for a little help. Ironic that your example proves the point.
This pretty much sums everything up. In fact I would go so far as to say people are afraid of those with disabilities. They see us and think that it could be them in a wheelchair, or with a permenat crutch or blind or missing a limb. They are terrified of it - it resides deep in their core. To see the disabled is a constant reminder of mortality and how fragile the human body really is. It makes people uncomfortable - beccause they see themselves with that disability even if they aren't fully aware of what they're doing.mark_n_b said:
Even worse - people think they are superior to the disabled because they have a 'normal' fully functioning body. Even with all the disabled have given back to the community with the power of their intellect and inner strength they will always be seen as broken and useless. They may stop to help someone who is disabled occasionally or claim to be inspired by a disabled person merely to look good to the public which is a disgusting and pitiful act in itself.
That's why all this hostility on this thread against the article exists. People couldn't even read the article - instead just assuming that the blind want touch screens banned or some nonsense. They don't want to be reminded of the disabled; out of sight out of mind.
