Tragedy in Games
- Thread starter Keela
- Start date
Recommended Videos
That particular situation got me thinking of an example where I didn't care in the slightest that the "wingman" died. In Killzone 2 that exact thing pretty much occurs, and I just found it to be cheesy as hell the way the game seemed to have been created that I should feel "sad".Keela said:
I mean in the same game, the group of protagonists are soldiers in an all out war wih the helghast empire. Up to the point where one of them dies, I (as the player character) along with my companions hade already killed scores of the enemy pretty much without breaking a sweat, and even taken down several pieces of super-dangerous combat vehicles, and also seen several NPC allies die at the hands of the enemy... And suddenly im supposed to feel "sadness" over the fact that just another soldier dies in a friggin WAR? Come on!
Call me cold hearted if you like, but I sort of, kind of consider death to be an "occupational hazard" for soldiers engaged in warfare, and I found it severely ridiculous when this NPC character dies in a scripted event and the game just wails on with this sad sounding orchestral score in the background.
I think I would have appriceated that particular event in the story if the game had treated that event in a rather blunt and "as a matter of fact"-manner, although perhaps depicting the main character suddenly coming to the realizaion that people actually die in wars, a fact that he'd probably distanced himself from a little too much up to that point due to the fact that he and his buddies had merrily run around slaying scores and scores of enemy combatants and treating the risk of death as something that just happens to other people.
But in turn that the universe and the game setting mercielssly ignores the loss of that single trooper, the way real life does.
THAT would have been a way more effective depiction of the death of an important NPC character, fitting to the grim nature of warfare, and if I could have seen the main character coming o terms with the loss of his comerade in a mature and adult manner instead of acting like it was a otal surprise, I might have admired the main character a little more as well.
But sadly, Guerilla opted for a cheesy, over the top, and hollywoodesque stereotypical handling of the situation.
Oh well, at least the game has a wicked cool character design when it concerns the helghast.
Point. Sometimes, your allies dying has no effect when they're not characterized. Like when the most boring character in a horror movie who does nothing to further the plot, we already know he's going to get his head cut off by Jason Voorhees or eaten by the zombies. I'ts just a "GET ON WITH IT!" moment.Housebroken Lunatic said:That particular situation got me thinking of an example where I didn't care in the slightest that the "wingman" died. In Killzone 2 that exact thing pretty much occurs, and I just found it to be cheesy as hell the way the game seemed to have been created that I should feel "sad".Keela said:
I mean in the same game, the group of protagonists are soldiers in an all out war wih the helghast empire. Up to the point where one of them dies, I (as the player character) along with my companions hade already killed scores of the enemy pretty much without breaking a sweat, and even taken down several pieces of super-dangerous combat vehicles, and also seen several NPC allies die at the hands of the enemy... And suddenly im supposed to feel "sadness" over the fact that just another soldier dies in a friggin WAR? Come on!
Call me cold hearted if you like, but I sort of, kind of consider death to be an "occupational hazard" for soldiers engaged in warfare, and I found it severely ridiculous when this NPC character dies in a scripted event and the game just wails on with this sad sounding orchestral score in the background.
I think I would have appriceated that particular event in the story if the game had treated that event in a rather blunt and "as a matter of fact"-manner, although perhaps depicting the main character suddenly coming to the realizaion that people actually die in wars, a fact that he'd probably distanced himself from a little too much up to that point due to the fact that he and his buddies had merrily run around slaying scores and scores of enemy combatants and treating the risk of death as something that just happens to other people.
But in turn that the universe and the game setting mercielssly ignores the loss of that single trooper, the way real life does.
THAT would have been a way more effective depiction of the death of an important NPC character, fitting to the grim nature of warfare, and if I could have seen the main character coming o terms with the loss of his comerade in a mature and adult manner instead of acting like it was a otal surprise, I might have admired the main character a little more as well.
But sadly, Guerilla opted for a cheesy, over the top, and hollywoodesque stereotypical handling of the situation.
Oh well, at least the game has a wicked cool character design when it concerns the helghast.
But imagine for a moment, if at the end of Mass Effect 2, Grunt gets thrown from the ship as you're getting ready to land, and Miranda takes a bullet in the skull right afterwards. In the fight that ensues, a Harbinger guy just runs up and beats Thane to death with his rifle butt. This sort of thing continues until only Tali and Garrus are left. Then, you have to make the decision of who stays behind between the three of you to destroy the ship, since there's not enough time to get back to the Normandy if you all stay. That would be the most gut-wrenching, tragic decision I'd have ever made in a game.
The Vanille/Sazh scene in Final Fantasy 13. Very intense. Even if you don't like the gameplay, the game excels in storytelling.
I mostly dont like it because it cheap way to create drama but it can be made in good way but thats kinda rare. Not the best but good example is Broken Hearts but what am I talking about? No one ever played that game. If you did you got truckload of cookies waiting in my yard.
I loves me some tragedies in games but I like betrayals even more. *Especially* when you don't see them coming. I hate hate HATE Gafgarion with a passion after what he did. I always make sure he suffers greatly before I kill him (like stealing his sword and beating him with it).
Agreed.LOLYOULOSEGIRL said:
This isn't quite heart break, but I nearly got over emotional on fallout 3, as I had just started the game and set about in a random direction in the waste land when I found Dogmeat. A while later I was exploring again and went in a power station where gouls ambushed in force, I saw dogmeat surrounded and ran straight back out the door as I was about to die. If I remember correctly the game informs you if a companion dies (or I just made that up in my head).
It made me annoyed as I didn't try to save Dogmeat, because I thought I had a lack of resources to do so and also the fact that I could have been avoided said event. I didn't go back to the last save as I wanted to have a "vanilla" experience of Fallout 3. If that makes sense.
This did actually make me a bit sad, lol.
It made me annoyed as I didn't try to save Dogmeat, because I thought I had a lack of resources to do so and also the fact that I could have been avoided said event. I didn't go back to the last save as I wanted to have a "vanilla" experience of Fallout 3. If that makes sense.
This did actually make me a bit sad, lol.
One of the reasons why Persona 3 was so great to me was, the whole game you spend building up friendships (and lovers), and then at the end..
*sniff
*sniff
Yeah, I prefer sad endings I guess, if there's some meaning to them.
You sacrifice your life and very soul for the world and everyone in it. And most of the people don't even want you to save them. This is made even more powerful in the epilogue, where you find out that the soul of your character will forever do battle with Nyx to keep him/her away from humanity.
Sure, it was all those friendships that gave your character the strength to face that challenege, but it's still sad that all of those people who love him and are so close have lost him forever, and solely because of humanity's nihilism and self destructive nature. He's saving everyone from themselves, essentially.
Sure, it was all those friendships that gave your character the strength to face that challenege, but it's still sad that all of those people who love him and are so close have lost him forever, and solely because of humanity's nihilism and self destructive nature. He's saving everyone from themselves, essentially.
*sniff
*sniff
Yeah, I prefer sad endings I guess, if there's some meaning to them.
A game that utilizes tragedy in a sensible and appropriate manner is perfectly fine with me. I enjoy a game with a great story and every great story has to have its low points.
In inFamous when Trish dies (assuming you take the "good" path), ending of MGS4, death of Kaidan/Ashley in Mass Effect 1, Warden's sacrifice at the end of Dragon Age: Origins, and Martin's sacrifice at the end of Oblivion. Extremely powerful moments in my video gaming history.
In inFamous when Trish dies (assuming you take the "good" path), ending of MGS4, death of Kaidan/Ashley in Mass Effect 1, Warden's sacrifice at the end of Dragon Age: Origins, and Martin's sacrifice at the end of Oblivion. Extremely powerful moments in my video gaming history.
I like- scratch that, if tragedy was a woman I would marry her. Tragedy is like warm german milk chocolate, or like a sweet red-headed woman with green eyes and a ponytail.
No serious story is worth any salt without atleast some form of tragedy.
No serious story is worth any salt without atleast some form of tragedy.
The ending to Sands of Time is heartbreaking both when
Also, the ending to Mafia, because it's done so well. It's not ridiculously melodramatic and sad when
It's just acceptance of what he's done wrong, and that it was only a matter of time.
Farah dies, then when she can't remember him after the master rewind.
Also, the ending to Mafia, because it's done so well. It's not ridiculously melodramatic and sad when
Tommy dies
It's just acceptance of what he's done wrong, and that it was only a matter of time.
Believe me, you have not got a clue what happens from what they've said; even if you read the spoiler box (in which case it's your own fault) you can only gather the half of it. And the other half is so much more interesting.imahobbit4062 said:
I lurvs chur avatar. :3MisterShine said:
Sad endings can have a lot more impact. If all my friends die to stop an insurmountable evil, I'll feel like the sacrifices were necessary but tragic, instead of unnecessary and stupid with cheesy orchestral music, like every movie, tv show and video game ever. My buddies being casually knocked off like it's no big deal makes it... well, a big deal to me.
I guess it would. Although I don't own an Xbox 360 and thus haven't been able to play the Mass Effect series, I do understand that it relies a lot on story and character portrayal, so I guess it would be.Keela said:
And as you've said, it's all about good character development.
That said, while I might not have sympathized too much with the NPC in question who dies in killzone 2 (im refraining from telling who it is for spoiler reasons), frankly it wouldn't have mattered if he came across as the best video game charcter of all time, I still would have disliked the cheesy and artificial way of handling his death due to the extremely warlike setting.
I guess character deaths in war settings have more impact if it is treated as gritty, bleak and and gray sort of way raher than forcibly play the bombastic "waterworks music" and having the surviving protagonists go all angry and swear to pay back tenfold and other clichés like that.
Note that it's not that I oppose a certain amount of glorification of violence in war related games, it's just that I think that the gameplay and the action should handle the "glory" aspects of the violence and the war, not the story or the narrative. Because if the story and narrative are supposed to come off as believable, then the only characters involved who actually enjoy themselves and act like some kind of glorious and archetypical "warheroes" should be the unsympathetic psychopaths of the story.
Heck, how many necks have Solid Snake snapped throughout the Metal Gear Solid series? 1000? 2000? Yet he still doesn't keep a ridiculous and overly macho attitude in regards to the business of killing people. Sure he might have gotten desensitized over the years, but while the MGS series are games for the player you never ever believe that Solid Snake treats what he does as if it was some sort of "game" in the story.
Of course this is just one of many things that need consideration, but to summarize my point: in games that have a war inspired setting, I believe that the treatment of the deaths of long time NPC's should be treated in a bleak and gritty manner as opposed to hollywoodesque "death scenes" with silly orchestral music in the background, and the surviving characters should act accordingly.
But, as you've stated, character development will always be important, and ultimately it doesn't matter how you handle a characters death if you've failed from the start to engage the player in the lives of the characters.
![Fr]anc[is](https://eg-forums-escapist-data-bucket.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com/data/avatars/l/93/93202.jpg?1620797781){kind=avatar}